January 09, 2007
“So This Is Our Victory”
BINT JBAIL, SOUTH LEBANON – I drove to Hezbollah’s stronghold in South Lebanon to survey the devastation from the war in July, to check in on the United Nations peacekeeping force, and to talk to civilians who were used as human shields in the battle with Israel. My American journalist friend Noah Pollak from Azure Magazine in Jerusalem went with me. We went under the escort of two professional enemies of Hezbollah who work for the Lebanese Committee for UNSCR 1559, an NGO which closely advises the Lebanese government and the international community on the disarmament of illegal militias in Lebanon.
The two men picked us up at our hotel first thing in the morning.
Said (pronounced Sah-EED) rode up to the front door on his motorcycle. Henry arrived in his car.
“Good morning, gentlemen,” Said said as he shook our hands. “Shall we go in your car?”
“If you prefer,” I said.
It was probably better that way. Hezbollah Secretary General Hassan Nasrallah hysterically accuses Toni Nissi, the man Henry and Said work for, of heading up “the Beirut branch of the Israeli Mossad.” Best, I thought, to show up in Hezbollah’s bombed-out southern “capital” of Bint Jbail in a rental car rather than one that might be recognized.
It’s not worth taking Hezbollah’s “Mossad” accusation seriously. Nasrallah also says Prime Minister Fouad Seniora is a “Zionist hand” because he is pushing for Hezbollah’s disarmament.
“Let me drive,” Said said. “It is better. We know the best roads to take.”
Toni insisted these guys were the best. Not only do they know their way around the back roads of South Lebanon, they are battle-hardened infantry veterans of Lebanon’s civil war. I seriously doubted we would need their services as trained killers, but it was nice to have that skill set in our back pockets while venturing into the heartland of an illegal warmongering militia. Every Lebanese person I know insists Hezbollah won’t actually harm American journalists, and I believe them. It has been a while since Hezbollah has violently terrorized Western civilians in Lebanon. But the very same people strongly insisted Noah and I not go to the South by ourselves.
Normally you can drive from Beirut to the fence on the Israeli border in just over two hours. Lebanon, though, isn’t normal right now, especially not in the South. The Israeli Air Force bombed most, if not all, the bridges on the coastal highway. Reconstruction moved along quickly enough, but snarled traffic had to be re-routed around the construction sites, at times onto side roads that were too narrow and small to handle the overflow.
“What do you think about Israel’s invasion in July?” I asked Said and Henry.
“Of course what Israel did wasn’t good,” Said said. “They only care about themselves. Hezbollah doesn’t pay taxes, so the rest of us have to pay for all the infrastructure the Israelis destroyed.”
“What do you think about Israel in general?” I said. “Aside from the war in July?”
“I have nothing against Israel,” Henry said. “They are good people and they do good for themselves. We need to make peace with everyone. They are open-minded people, but we have no way to communicate with them since the Syrians came.”
“I would love to visit the Holy Land,” Said said. “My mother went there when the border was open before 2000. It is a good place. If you want to make peace with people, you can make peace, especially with the Israelis. They just want to live in their country, so it is no problem.”
“Is UNIFIL doing much in the South?” Noah asked from the back seat.
The United Nations Interim Force in Lebanon is widely assumed to be doing little aside from impotently standing around while Hezbollah reconstitutes its weapon stocks for the next round of war.
“The multinational forces don’t have the authority to stop Hezbollah unless they are smuggling weapons out in the open,” Said said. “The Lebanese army is not taking sides because of the volatile political situation and the violent clashes taking place in Beirut.”
The Lebanese army has actually confiscated a small amount of Hezbollah’s weapons smuggled in from across the Syrian border. One of Hassan Nasrallah’s recent demands is the return of those weapons from the army, even though Hezbollah’s existence as an autonomous militia is against Lebanese and international law.
Said is right, though, that the army does not have the authority to disarm Hezbollah. Hezbollah is better-armed, better-trained, and overall more powerful than the army, which suffered 15 years of deliberate neglect and degradation under Syrian overlordship. Some of the army’s top officers were also installed by the Syrians, and they are still loyal to the regime in Damascus. Most important, though, are fears that the army would break apart along sectarian lines if orders to militarily disarm Hezbollah were given. The army split during the civil war, after all, and would likely do so again. More than a third of the soldiers are Shia conscripts. Many are more loyal to Hezbollah than they are to the legal authorities.
“The Lebanese army is partly controlled by Syria, not like before 1975,” Henry said. “Before 1975 the Lebanese army was pro-Western and neutral toward Israel.”
As we left the city and the suburbs behind, apartment towers were replaced on the side of the road with soft beaches and the floppy leaves of banana trees. The weather was still warm and sunny even late in the year. Lebanon, as always, looked greener than I remember it when I am away.
“How badly was the South hit in July and August?” I asked.
Said laughed and shook his head. “You will see, my friend. You will see.”
We passed through the conservative Sunni coastal city of Saida, where former Prime Minister Rafik Hariri was born, and continued down along the Mediterranean toward the southern city of Tyre.
“What exactly, for the record, do you guys do in your organization?” I said.
“We advise the international community on how to implement UN Resolution 1559,” Said said. “And we try to convince Lebanon to be less conservative, more open and liberal and democratic. We try to convince the international community that most of us are not fanatics, to make Lebanon a good example for everyone. We want to live our lives as free people like you do in the US and Europe. We have a right.”
“The Hezbollah camp downtown is ugly,” Henry said. “This is not us. But it shows the world our differences. Most people think we live in a desert and ride camels and are all Muslims.”
“Hezbollah is trying to distract the world from Iran’s nuclear bomb,” Said said, “by making trouble in Lebanon, killings, dissolving the government, and so on. Can you imagine what Iran would do if they got the nuclear bomb? My God. Even right now they do what they want and don’t listen to anyone.”
A young man stood in the middle of an intersection and waved glossy pamphlets at cars. Said pulled alongside him and said something in Arabic.
“What is he handing out?” Noah said and rolled down his window.
“Hezbollah propaganda,” Henry said.
Said stepped on the accelerator.
Noah tried to grab one of the pamphlets.
“I want one of those,” he said. But the Hezbollah man kept the pamphlets tightly clutched in his fingers.
“He is selling them,” Said said, “not giving them away.”
“Oops,” Noah said. “I wasn’t trying to steal one.”
“He doesn’t care about money or propaganda,” Said said. “He is watching. This is the beginning of their territory. He reports on who is coming and what they are doing.”
“Whenever you see something blown up from here,” Henry said, “it is because it was owned by Hezbollah people or because Hezbollah had something to do with it.”
If you’re familiar with Lebanese politics it’s obvious whose territory you’re in just by looking at roadside political adverts and posters. The Shia regions are divided between the Hezbollah and Amal parties. Amal, also known as the Movement of the Disinherited, is Hezbollah’s sometime rival and sometime ally. It’s a secular party that was founded by the Iranian cleric Moussa Sadr to advance the interests of the long-neglected and voiceless Shia, the poorest and most marginalized Lebanese sect. Speaker of Parliament Nabih Berri is the chief of Amal today, and he has forged an uneasy alliance with Hezbollah and with the Syrians. Berri’s face is plastered up everywhere in Amal strongholds, and Nasrallah’s face is even more ubiquitous in Hezbollah territory. Occasionally you’ll see both Berri and Nasrallah together.
What you rarely see in either Hezbollah or Amal areas are Lebanese flags. The Sunni, Druze, and Christian parts of Lebanon are blanketed with the national cedar tree flag, as well as those of various political parties and movements. Only the Shia towns and villages are bereft of noticeable signs of patriotism.
Another striking difference between the Shia regions of Lebanon and the rest is which kind of “martyrs” are famous. Hezbollah and Amal strongholds venerate “resistance” fighters killed in battles with Israel.
You never see anything like this in the Sunni, Christian, or Druze parts of the country. Instead you’ll see portraits of more liberal and moderate Lebanese who were car-bombed by the Syrians.
Hezbollah glorifies violence and mayhem and murder.
In the rest of the country you see appeals to peace and life instead.
Last year a series of billboards all over Beirut said Say No to Anger, Say No to War, and Say No to Terrorism. Hezbollah would never allow anything of the sort to be erected in their parts of Lebanon, even though I know lots of Shia who agree with those sentiments.
The majority of the people in the South are Shia, but there are some Christian, Sunni, and Druze villages, too.
“The Christians down here are cornered,” Henry said. He could have mentioned that the Sunni and Druze are, as well. “They have no freedom of movement. They only have freedom of speech inside their own villages. Outside their villages they can’t speak or talk to the press unless they leave the South.”
“They have been a long time under Hezbollah control,” Said said. “It’s the same scenario as 1975, only with different players.”
The situation is eerily much like it was in 1975 when Lebanon descended into 15 years of hell and chaos and war. Yasser Arafat’s Palestinian Liberation Organization used South Lebanon as a launching pad for terrorist raids into Israel. The Shia who lived there were fiercely opposed to having their land used in this way for a foreigner’s war. Lebanon’s Christians also stridently opposed the use of their country as a battleground by Palestinians. But Lebanon’s Sunni community allowed and even encouraged Yasser Arafat to build himself a state-within-a-state in West Beirut. Street clashes between Christians and Palestinians sparked what eventually became a war of all-against-all that shattered the government and drew in the Syrians, the Iranians, the Americans, and the Israelis.
“Israel was surprised by the war this summer because they neglected Hezbollah after 2000,” Said said. Prime Minister Ehud Barak withdrew the Israeli occupation forces from the “security belt” in South Lebanon in 2000, and wrongly assumed the Lebanese army would take control of the area. Hezbollah moved in instead and immediately dug in for more war. “Nasrallah will go all the way now unless Seniora and Hariri surrender. Only if they surrender will Nasrallah spare them from the final solution.”
This struck me as a bit on the paranoid side. Hezbollah can almost certainly win a defensive war against fellow Lebanese, but no one is strong enough to conquer and rule the whole country.
As we drove through a small village an imam screamed slogans in angry Arabic from the muezzin’s speaker atop a mosque minaret. It was a sharp contrast to what I’m used to hearing from the mosques in Beirut. There the muezzin’s call to prayer is hauntingly beautiful and genuinely spiritual, as though the muezzin himself is no longer tethered to this world. I miss the unearthly singing when I’m in Christian Beirut and when I’m at home.
“What is he saying?” I asked.
“It is about Palestine,” Said said. He listened. “He is saying If we win this fight against the Seniora conspiracy we will only have Palestine to liberate. We won’t have Israel as an obstacle.”
“They won’t have Israel as an obstacle?” Noah said in a bemused tone of voice.
“Ha, ha, ha, I like this guy,” Henry said.
A convoy of Lebanese army trucks headed north.
“One thing we are worried about,” Said said, “is the weakening of the South because the army has to go north. This is part of the plan.”
We ventured deeper into the South, into the steep rolling hills that make up the region known as the Upper Galilee.
“It’s beautiful here,” Noah said, and kept saying. He had never been there before. “This would be a great place for an artist’s retreat if it weren’t so dangerous.”
“Beautiful country, fanatic people,” Said said.
Most of the villages and towns were more or less intact.
We did, however, drive past the occasional damaged house or places where buildings recently stood and that now were fields of cleared rubble.
Dour-looking men stood on street corners and in the middle of intersections and carefully watched all the cars and people who entered the area.
“You see the watchers?” Said said.
“Yep,” I said. “They couldn’t be any more obvious. Can we get out and talk to people around here?”
“I do not recommend it,” Said said. “They cannot talk freely. These watchers will come up to us if we get out of the car, and they will make sure anyone who talks to us only tells us what they are supposed to say.”
Soon we reached Bint Jbail, Hezbollah’s de-facto “capital” in South Lebanon. The outskirts were mostly undamaged, but the city looks now like a donut. Downtown was almost completely demolished by air strikes and artillery.
“So this is our victory,” Said said. “This is how Hezbollah wins. Israel destroys our country while they sleep safely and soundly in theirs.”
Said parked in the center of what used to be the central market area. The four of us got out of the car. Noah and I walked around, dizzied by the extent of the 360-degree devastation.
Three severe-looking men walked up to Said and Henry.
“Who are they, who are you, and what are you doing?” said the man in charge.
“They are international reporters,” Henry said. Notice that he did not say we were American reporters. “They are here to document Israel’s destruction of our country.”
The men seemed satisfied with that answer and left us alone. Presumably they would continue to leave us alone as long as we didn’t try to interview any civilians. I was glad Henry and Said were there with us. They were the ones asked to do the explaining rather than Noah and me.
I kept snapping pictures.
“Oh man,” Noah said. “Some real pain got dropped on this place.”
The photos don’t do “justice” to the extent of the damage. The destruction was panoramic and near-absolute in the city center.
Apparently the outskirts of town were not seen as threatening by the Israelis. Most of Bint Jbail beyond downtown was unscathed.
We got back in the car. Said looked for the road to Maroun al-Ras, the next hollowed-out southern town on our itinerary. The streets, though, were confusing now that many landmarks no longer existed. Only after a few laps around town could Said re-orient himself.
“Three times on the same road, not good,” Henry said.
It looked – and felt – totalitarian in Bint Jbail. Everyone watched us. If Said was right that the locals weren’t allowed to speak freely (assuming they dissented from Nasrallah’s party line) it must feel totalitarian to people who live there as well.
I asked one of my Shia friends who grew up in Hezbollah’s dahiyeh south of Beirut what would happen if he said “I hate Hezbollah” outside his house on the street.
“I’d get my ass kicked,” he said. “No one would do that.”
We reached Maroun al-Ras only a few minutes after leaving Bint Jbail. This was the first Lebanese village seized by the Israeli Defense Forces during the war. The scene was familiar – much of the center of town had been reduced to rubble.
One site stood out, though. At the top of a hill overlooking the Israeli border stood a mostly intact mosque surrounded by panoramic destruction.
Israel may have over-reacted in July and selected targets (the milk factory, bridges in the north, etc.) that should not have been hit. But the stark scene on the hill of Maroun al-Ras demonstrated that the Israeli military did not bomb indiscriminately as many have claimed. Unlike Hezbollah, the Israelis are able to hit what they want and they don’t shoot at everything. That mosque wouldn’t be standing if they dropped bombs and artillery randomly in the villages.
“My mother is from Deir Mimas,” Said said. “In July Hezbollah brought their weapons out of the caves and valleys and into the village. My family has a small house there that was burned during the war.”
“I’m sorry,” I said.
“Eh,” Said said. “It’s okay. It is fixed now. Anyway, at first Hezbollah fired their missiles from groves of olive trees. Then they got hit by the Israelis. So they moved into Deir Mimas because the other nearby option was Kfar Kila. Hezbollah didn’t want the Shia villages hit, so they moved into Christian villages instead.”
That sounded right. I recently saw Kfar Kila from the Israeli side. The town is literally right on the border, only twenty feet or so from the fence next to the Israeli town of Metulla. I saw no damage whatsoever in Kfar Kila – and this was one day before the end of the war – but I did hear machine gun fire in the streets ominously close to where I was standing.
The four of us arrived in the Christian village of Ein Ebel just outside Bint Jbail. A man was there waiting for us who would tell us about Hezbollah’s brutal siege of his town in July.
First we stopped for lunch, though, and ordered some pizza and sandwiches. As Said parked the car he turned the dial on the car stereo.
“Do you hear them?” he said. “Do you hear the Israelis?”
Sure enough, scratchy voices in Hebrew came through the crackling static.
“Yep,” I said. “Those are Israelis.”
“We are right next to the border,” Henry said.
We went into the restaurant. Henry and I sat at a table while we waited for food. Said hovered over us, as did Noah with his camera.
“We have been screaming about this conflict for 30 years now,” Henry said as he dealt himself a hand of Solitaire from a deck of cards in his pocket. “But no one ever listened to us. Not until September 11. Now you know how we feel all the time. You have to keep up the pressure. You can never let go, not for one day, one hour, not for one second. The minute you let go, Michael, they will fight back and get stronger. This is the problem with your foreign policy.”
“Since 1975 we have been fighting for the free world,” Said said. “We are on the front lines. Why doesn’t the West understand this? America can withdraw from Iraq, you can go back to Oregon, but we are stuck here. We have to stay and live with what happens.”
To be continued…
Post-script: Please help support independent journalism. I have no corporate backing, and I cannot visit foreign countries and file these dispatches without your assistance.
If you would like to donate money for travel expenses and you don't want to use Pay Pal, you can send a check or money order to:
Michael Totten
P.O. Box 312
Portland, OR 97207-0312
Many thanks in advance.
~~~The Shia who lived there were fiercely opposed to having their land used in this way for a foreigner’s war.~~~
I truely wondered what happened in the first Lebanon war that has turned the cards around like this that now this seems to be one of the main objectives to be reached by shia's??
What did the IDF do (those days) to turn a 'friend' into an 'enemy'?
Tsedek,
I would guess that the Iranian Islamic revolution in 1979 may have had a big hand in radicalizing the Shia population. Also, people simply don't like to be occupied, for whatever reason, especially Arabs occupied by Jews.
Posted by: Zak at January 9, 2007 01:13 AMThank you Zak -
but.. I've heard the IDF was welcomed into the south of Lebanon when they first 'arrived' (and the iranian revolution was 2 years before that) - why would this attitude turn around as a leaf? They 'overstayed' their welcome? It's very puzzling to me...
Perhaps they welcomed the IDF for pushing the PLO out of their villages in the South, but turned on them once Israel allied with the Christians. The same thing happened to the Americans, no?
Posted by: M.Corilianus at January 9, 2007 01:49 AMMichael, this was way BEYOND journalism. This whole series is a window into the soul of a country, underneath all the complexities. Thank you.
Posted by: M.Corilianus at January 9, 2007 02:00 AMthx corilianus.
if that's true then one cannot blame them for their present feelings towards israel - but still i don't understand why then the external war for the palestinians seem to have become a main objective. just oustering and fighting israel from within their positions should be enough then.
what has happened in 20-some years that has changed that mind-set?
Tsedek: what has happened in 20-some years that has changed that mind-set?
Hezbollah and the Islamic Republic of Iran.
Posted by: Michael J. Totten at January 9, 2007 02:17 AMindoctrination.... manipulation - taking advantage of the wounded feelings of people
thanks MJT - now I start to understand...
Posted by: tsedek at January 9, 2007 02:32 AMAbraham~ Let's do one better: YOU go to Southern Lebanon, and then we'll read what You have to report on the situation.
'tis only fair, yes?
Keep up the good work, Michael. Your efforts have filled in a lot of gaps.
Posted by: Otter at January 9, 2007 04:52 AMTsedek,
The brutality of the Israeli occupation turned the Shia against Israel and contributed to the founding of Hezbollah.
Posted by: Richard at January 9, 2007 05:16 AMFine, Richard - but... that explains for the hate towards Israel, but not for the re-thinking wanting to fight someone-else's war. No?
Posted by: tsedek at January 9, 2007 05:21 AMTsedek,
The brutality of the Israeli occupation turned the Shia against Israel and contributed to the founding of Hezbollah.
What brutality are you referring to? From what I understand, the Israelis did not fight with the Shia of S. Leb. until after the Shia began fighting the Israeli occupation.
I believe there was an incident when an Israeli column drove through and interrupted an Ashura festival, which was stupid and thoughtless. But could you please illustrate how Israeli "brutality" was the catalyst for Shia militancy against Israel?
Posted by: Zak at January 9, 2007 06:18 AMOh, MJT, I forgot to tell you how much I've been enjoying your reports. Great work!
Posted by: Zak at January 9, 2007 06:20 AMThat poster or w.e. it was wasn't telling people they were now in hizbollah territory, it said on it "Together we are victors".
And it's not true people in south lebanon are controlled by hizbollah or anyone else. I have sworn at Hizbollah men men from before, like 3 years ago, because they had booked the football pitch we were playing in and took up the play to play themselves. All they did was tell me that its rude to swear.
And i know pubs that serve alchohol in the south, hizb allah didn't burn any of them down etc and i know many who are against hizbollah and say so, but hizbollah never interferes with them. Why don't you write about them?!?
Posted by: hezbollah lover at January 9, 2007 06:25 AMZak, that was Richard's comment, not mine.
It is so important to know the chronological turn of events that time, I think - Because Israeli soldiers as well are 'complaining' about the ruthlesness of the ones they were fighting in S. Lebanon that time.
Posted by: tsedek at January 9, 2007 06:41 AMMike:
This comment is a little off subject as I wanted to thank you for the fine reporting you did in the Kurdistan region of Iraq a while back. I'm a fan of Michelle Malkin and left a comment on the Big Lizard's site (he is subbing for her while she's away) that I'd like to see her, as well as other bloggers, reporting on the success story of the Kurds, rather than haring off on a snipe hunt for the phantom 'Jamil'. Another reader left the link to your writings and I'm very glad to have gotten it.
I've spent most the evening reading your reports on the Kurds and your more recent reports on the situation in Lebanon. You write very well and give a well organized presentation. Keep up the good work.
BTW: I was born in Forest Grove, which used to be some distance from Portland, but which is now probably a suburb. Haven't been back in a long time.
Posted by: H.Short at January 9, 2007 07:07 AMGreat article. I love the billboard juxtaposition. Classic.
Even more fascinating is the totally predictable breathless responses from Hezzi fans, who tend to capitalise everything except the first letter of a new sentence. What's with that?
I feel like I should save them the trouble and just provide them with a stock rant that can be used for every one of your articles:
"Hey totten, WTF? do u know anything man? can u even speak arabic? don't u know hizbullah rules and is LOVED by 99.9% of the population and is totally cool and peaceful and only wants TRUTH and JUSTICE and the LEBANESE WAY against the murderous child KILLING zionist imperialist expansionist colonialist sadistic jews. of course we dont hate JEWS only the zionist arab killing ones. and the ones who live in "israel". and the ones in america who control hollywood, the media, the whitehouse and the INTERNET. they probably pay u too right. anyway, forgot to mention that bush is a nazi. and america does lots of REALLY bad evil stuff man. like BOMBING japan really recently and selling really fatty HAMBURGERS and opening friggin STARBUCKS in every friggin corner of the UNIVERSE and hizbullah NEVER does anything bad and even though we say some bad things sometimes we dont really mean them and they were probably made up anyway by some zionist jew memri new york times CONSPIRACY. geez man don't u get it. we r VICTIMS."
Posted by: Mertel at January 9, 2007 07:31 AMMichael, your columns are terrific, but this one was specially good...you moved me to send you a few bucks, and I'm a cheapskate. Hope others support you too....
Posted by: BillBC at January 9, 2007 09:12 AMAbraham is banned and his comments are routinely deleted. Do not respond to him.
Posted by: Michael J. Totten at January 9, 2007 09:56 AMThat poster or w.e. it was wasn't telling people they were now in hizbollah territory, it said on it "Together we are victors".
That wasn't intended as a translation.
Posted by: Michael J. Totten at January 9, 2007 09:57 AMAnother great article.
You show a picture of the bridge being rebuilt, but I didn't see many pictures of the rest of southern Lebanon being rebuilt. Did you see a lot of clean up work going on in those devastated areas?
Posted by: Jeff at January 9, 2007 10:54 AMJeff,
I saw some reconstruction in Ein Ebel. In Bint Jbail and Maroun al-Ras I didn't see much of anything in the way of reconstruction except that most of the rubble had been cleared out of the way.
Posted by: Michael J. Totten at January 9, 2007 11:13 AMRE: Reconstruction.
So where are all the fake US Dollars?
Fantastic Article, MJT. Why can't the MSM do this?
Posted by: AG in Houston at January 9, 2007 11:44 AMYe, which shows how much the government is failing its own people, doesn't it?
Posted by: hezbollah lover at January 9, 2007 11:48 AMWhy can't the MSM do this?
Because we don't have journalism anymore, we have a profitable industry that figured out a few decades ago that you can dress up a content-free tabloid with a stuffed shirt idiot Ted Baxter and create non-news for free that sells and makes profit.
Real journalism makes enemies and thus costs money. That's completely unacceptably anymore, so it's against the rules.
Posted by: Josh Scholar at January 9, 2007 11:49 AMImagine if CNN pissed off Hezbollah by telling the true a few times? Then they'd no longer get free pictures and "access" to lying Hez flacks. Catastrophy! Why their insurance rates would go up, and writing their own stories would mean they'd no longer be the first with the story and they'd actually have to pay a journalist to go to the place and cover it rather than getting a quick photo op. My God, do you think they're made of money?
Posted by: Josh Scholar at January 9, 2007 11:54 AMBesides, intelligent journalists who are capable of writing their own stories don't fit into the industry. The job of a journalist is to sell a content free piece of shit, with full confidence as if it contained truth. And of course the main qualification for that kind of job is indelible idiocy.
Posted by: Josh Scholar at January 9, 2007 11:56 AMHezbollah Lover: Ye, which shows how much the government is failing its own people, doesn't it?
Assistance from the Lebanese government in Hezbollah-controlled areas is not allowed by Hezbollah. This is the only way Hezbollah can earn points for "charity." You know it, too, although I'm sure you'll deny it.
Anyway, that's why you see reconstruction in the public areas (roads, etc.) and in the Christian towns, but not in Hezbollah's territory.
Hezbollah is (sometimes) good at propaganda and manipulation, and not a lot else.
Posted by: Michael J. Totten at January 9, 2007 12:06 PMdear michael,
i started thinking that you are paid for what you are doing coz you have zero objectivity, why don't you listen to the other opinion, oh god you said that they are afraid to talk? would you plz tell me base on what you made this assumption? did you talk to anybody and see if he responds or not?
you only listen for the things that you like to listen to. what a great reporter you are?
your friends henry and said doesnt even represent 1% of lebanese opinion, they are clearly sectarian and still living under the fantasm of the idiology of the lebanese forces.
Cynthia, I quoted several Hezbollah supporters in previous articles. I haven't quoted any Hezbollah opponents until today. So you need to calm down. You can always read something else.
Yes, I am being paid to write these articles by the people who read this Web site.
your friends henry and said doesnt even represent 1% of lebanese opinion
Oh, bullshit. You live in an alternate universe.
Posted by: Michael J. Totten at January 9, 2007 12:33 PMyes true, you quote what hezbollah supporteres said, adding to them some fats from here salt from there, and most important your biased jugment towards them (terorrist, fanatics,idiots, laughing behind their backs) how great, they must send you a thanking present.
Posted by: cynthia at January 9, 2007 01:02 PMCynthia, if you're going to come here and support Hezbollah, say something interesting. Otherwise, leave.
I have no more patience for this bullshit.
Posted by: Michael J. Totten at January 9, 2007 01:13 PMH Lover-
How are people able to say that HA is GOOD for Lebanon?
Let's say for a second that Michael is wrong about HA allowing the Lebanese government into the area it controls. Wouldn't a competent authority rebuild their supporters homes before they stage demonstrations in their country's capitol city?
Assuming Michael is accurate and HA is NOT letting the government rebuild the devastated areas, they are at hest cynical opportunists gathering power off the misery of their own supporters.
Forget what you think about other actors in this. In this instance HA is either incompetent or cynical manipulators.
So far I see no evidence on how HA is actually good for Lebanon. You may agree with their goals, but can you honestly believe that their methods are effective?
You say you are a smart fellow. I suggest you consider judging a political organization by what they say, not what they do.
Posted by: Jef at January 9, 2007 01:26 PM"Assistance from the Lebanese government in Hezbollah-controlled areas is not allowed by Hezbollah."
Sounds interesting, the sort of thing guaranteed to perpetuate Shia charges of neglect by the central government. Quotes? Proof?
Posted by: Solomon2 at January 9, 2007 01:30 PMSolomon, they have a sovereign state-within-a-state. Lebanon suffers a schism. Hezbollah has parallel institutions for literally everything. Until August the Lebanese government, police, and army weren't even allowed to set foot in Hezbollah areas. This is still true in the dahiyeh, but at least the army has moved to the border. It is going to take a long time before the government has any actual authority over the whole country.
Posted by: Michael J. Totten at January 9, 2007 01:37 PMthanks michael for the report and the pictures. the only observations are of your escorts. Although I do understand their anger and agree with some of it, I noticed that your escorts seem more sectarian rather than secular.
They would only refer to the christians grievances and as though the christians are the only sects with grievances with hez.
the last question is what was henry refering to when he said "we have been screaming about this conflict......now you know how we feel all of the time"? is he speaking about all muslims in general?
I don't want to assume, but from what he was saying, he seems just as sectarian as "radicals" that he was speaking of.
peace
Yes, Buckeye, Henry is a bit sectarian. I pointed that out myself at one point.
Almost everyone in Lebanon is sectarian, even those who try hard not to be. That is just the way Lebanon is.
Posted by: Michael J. Totten at January 9, 2007 02:11 PMMichael I am so addicted to your blog. The more you write the greedier I get and I'm jumping up and down on pins and needles for each installment. The pictures are fantastic, the background information on the social and political history of the region and the various parties is so important and so well-done, the conversations you report add so much richness, and your experiences and your bravery simply leave me breathless and awe-struck.
Posted by: Yael at January 9, 2007 02:12 PMBy the way, buckeye, my problem with Hezbollah is not that they are Shia or sectarian. I am not Lebanese and I don't think in categories like these.
The problem with Hezbollah is that they start wars and get lots of people killed for no good reason.
Posted by: Michael J. Totten at January 9, 2007 02:13 PMyes michael, i agree with your assesment of hez and their lawlessness. Iam of lebanese decent that lives in columbus ohio (hence the buckeye), and even here, in the states, the arguments with those that support hez (mostly shia), is reminiscent of bush with the "you are either with us or with the terrorists".
thanks for the posts and I agree with yael, the convos add richness.
"Only the Shia towns and villages are bereft of noticeable signs of patriotism."
Only the Arab's did not show signs of patrotism to/for their country? Thats interesting.
Posted by: Ron Snyder at January 9, 2007 03:09 PMOnly the Arab's did not show signs of patrotism to/for their country? Thats interesting.
That's not what I said at all.
Most Lebanese self-identify as Arabs, especially the Sunnis.
Most Druze self-identify as Arabs.
Most Orthodox Christians self-identify as Arabs.
The Maronites are the only group that predominantly do not.
Posted by: Michael J. Totten at January 9, 2007 03:35 PMGreat series MJT.
And thanks for setting a low tolerance level for idiocy.
Posted by: JoseyWales at January 9, 2007 04:37 PMMJT, my education continues, and my comment was poorly phrased; had I said that "only the Shia (presumably Muslim and self-identified as Arabs) did not show signs of patrotism to/for their country? Thats interesting.", it would have been more accurate.
I find the Middle Eastern ethnic/racial/tribal/religious groupings (self or otherwise identifed) to be even more challenging to understand than that of the Balkans.
JoseyWales, idiocy is a bit different from ignorance or misunderstanding, though your thoughts are appreciated and a less glib response would have been nice.
Posted by: Ron Snyder at January 9, 2007 05:54 PMMr. Totten,
After reading the responses of the pro and anti Hizb'Allah commenters, I now see why Lebanon is in the mess it is in, and why a solution is not going to be easy.
The situation in Lebanon is a microcosm of the World at large, and were one to witness a peaceful resolution to the seeming stalemate in Lebanon, perhaps there is hope for the rest of the World. We shall see, Michael, but thank you for providing us a window into Lebanon.
Isn't understanding the problem 90% of finding a solution to it?
Posted by: templar knight at January 9, 2007 06:10 PMJosh and Buckeye, you two are talking (insulting) right past each other. Neither of you are reading very carefully what the other has written. You don't disagree as much as it appears.
Josh, Buckeye is not a Hezbollah supporter.
And Buckeye, Josh's point about American war criminals is that we Americans despise them for what they have done, not that they do not exist.
Posted by: Michael J. Totten at January 9, 2007 06:17 PMAnd by the way, Buckeye, the whole "Jews killed Jesus" thing is just anti-Semitic propaganda. Jesus was killed by the Roman Empire.
Posted by: Michael J. Totten at January 9, 2007 06:19 PMMy last two comments should have been in the "Links" thread, not this one. Sorry.
Posted by: Michael J. Totten at January 9, 2007 06:20 PMAnother great post, Michael. Very good story - and you're upsetting all the right people - congrats.
Unlike Hezbollah, the Israelis are able to hit what they want
A high percentage of the time, yes, but clearly not always - such is the state of war, unfortunately.
Still, the photo of that mosque and its surroundings is amazing.
“Beautiful country, fanatic people,” Said said.
Too bad. The Galilee in Israel is one of my favorite parts of the country.
Question for MJT, Josey or any Lebanese or Israeli.
Why are there no Shia Israeli Arabs/Where did the Lebanese Shia come from?
There are obviously Sunni Muslims, Christians and Druze in both Northern Israel and Lebanon (and I know there are some familial relations between Israeli and Lebanese Arabs/Druze) - but I've never heard of any Shia population in Northern Israel - which seems strange since they're so predominant in Southern Lebanon in close proximity.
Is there an interesting (or not so interesting) story behind that?
Thanks in advance.
Posted by: SoCalJustice at January 9, 2007 06:22 PMWhat did the IDF do (those days) to turn a 'friend' into an 'enemy'?
They were never "friends" in the first place. They simply didn't offer organized resistance to the Israeli invasion... For a while. Then they did.
Israel didn't exactly attempt to suck up to them, either. The invasion of Lebanon was based upon propping up a particularly violent and corrupt faction of Maronite Christians who would be willing to sign a peace treaty with Israel in exchange for Israel's armed might guaranteeing the suppression of their largely Sunni, PLO-allied opponents.
The shia were in the Israeli invasion route and lived along their supply lines. That was all anyone - Israeli, Maronite Christian, or Sunni Muslim - knew or cared about them at the time. They weren't part of anyone's plans.
Iran was a source of weapons and ideology for the Shiites at an opportune time, but the pre-war Lebanese political system was a violent tinderbox, akin to Hussein's Iraq. Crack the skin of control, and... kaboom. It wasn't dependent on Iran. There's a media universe in the Arab world and it wasn't exactly friendly to Arab leaders being picked by Israeli generals.
There's a lot of rose-colored glassing about Lebanon around here, as if Hizballah arrived in a special-delivery Fedex package. The truth is, an Israeli-manipulated regime change in Beirut backed by 100,000 troops and months of bombings on CNN didn't really need a lot of help to become wildly unpopular.
Also, the South Lebanese Army that Israel set up to try and maintain control in their security belt developed a reputation for barbarity. Not that they were less barbaric than Hizballah, who once had a CIA chief skinned alive - or the Maronite Christians, or anyone else anywhere near power in Lebanon.
They cheered Israel, but they also cheered the Syrians. In the midst of a gang war, armies are cheered.
Posted by: glasnost at January 9, 2007 06:34 PMI'd like to see her, as well as other bloggers, reporting on the success story of the Kurds, rather than haring off on a snipe hunt for the phantom 'Jamil'.
Jamil's a real guy. Michelle Malkin's snipe hunt endangered his career and probably his life.
Posted by: glasnost at January 9, 2007 06:39 PMI am an avid reader of Dean's World and just starting reading your columns. You are a gifted journalist. I forgot they existed. You help me explain to my children what is really going on in the Middle East. Thank you!
I will continue to subscribe and pay for your writing.
Dean
P.S I am not sure who Scott Kirwin is, but he did a good job of letting those new to using this media of just how we should pay for it. I think many of us did not understand how the economics work. But now that I do, I am more then happy to pay. I pledge to subscribe weekly.
Posted by: Dean at January 9, 2007 07:19 PMThis is some of the best reporting - if not THE best - I've ever read from the middle east. Amazing. Why can't the big media outlets, with all their money and equipment, be even a tenth as clear, honest and real?
I remember how elated I felt a couple of years ago when it looked like Lebanon would be free. All the 'protest babes' and the smiling faces. Finally! I thought, another normal middle eastern country that wants to live and enjoy all the wonders of the 21st century. And then. . . gone. And you heard not a word about it. Until this summer. Then there were a bunch of stories about Israeli bombing (straight from Hezbollah apparently), and then that ended, and now, again, nothing. Why oh why does our media suck so badly?
Anyway, thank goodness for Michael.
Posted by: Dyema at January 9, 2007 07:29 PMGlanost, although it isn't the point of the thread:
AP quoted "Capt. Hussein" 61 times, by name, and describing where he worked. It beggars belief that questioning either his existence or his accuracy is what endangered him. Unless by asking the questions someone may have believed the jig was up and he needed to be killed to prevent him from being questioned.
Should we uncritically believe a source because proving his story will cause those using him to harm him?
Posted by: SDN at January 9, 2007 07:38 PMQuestions for Michael and other knowledgeable commentators...
Why are the Shia the poorest Lebanese sect? How did they come that way? Who keeps them that way?
I echo the sentiments of Dyema, this is some of the best reporting I have read from the Middle East.
Posted by: Lazar at January 9, 2007 08:10 PM"Jamil's a real guy. Michelle Malkin's snipe hunt endangered his career and probably his life."
WTF are you talking about? How did she endanger his career and life?
Posted by: mikek at January 9, 2007 08:29 PMExcellent work. I have followed you for the last few years.
glasnost: you must be a troll to snark the snipe angle. The guy's name has been published in papers around the world for months. His title and location were given by the AP in the stories. The man has been working in the same location probably traveling to/from work by the same route every day for the last year plus. If his remarks were an issue, I'm sure someone would have killed him by now. It's not like he has ever had a paid security contingent to see him safely about his duties. And it's not like they would have helped much if he were in danger. Men of much higher distinction than he is are gunned down every day in Baghdad. Did the AP put him in danger by not using a pseudonym in their reports and id'ing him as such? Or is he in really in no more danger than the average Iraqi cop? Malkin knew less about him than the AP did, and reported no more than they (how could she), or are you claiming she is more widely read than the AP; therefore, Jamil is more widely known after her reportage than the APs? That is the only way her reporting could have “put his life in danger.”
The initial problem with the stories was not the mouthpiece. It was the verbage flowing forth. No other news sites reported the carnage that he claimed. The Iraqi government denied the claims of carnage that he reported and several of the AP’s own "corroborating sources" denied having talked to the AP or having sourced these stories. It was logical to question whether the Jamil source would also deny either sourcing the stories or the contents of the stories themselves. Every one of the “sources” seems to have gone on record one way or the other except Jamil. To date, the damage at the mosques has not been confirmed and the alleged victim's families have not aired the usual grievances against either the Iraqis or the US. This is pretty unusual for a potentially incendiary incident in the mid east. How do they expect to be compensated for their losses by the government as is middle-eastern custom, if they haven’t come forward?
The wire services usually all report on the same incidents and stories each day in multiple releases, so why are the stories by Jamil only covered by the AP? Surely the sources for other news outlets heard about the incidents, yet no reports surfaced that weren't referenced back to the original reportage by the AP. Why did they allow the AP to scoop all of the Jamil stories? Why did the AP stories change from release to release and why are the releases still being "tweaked" to this day? Did the AP rush rumors and gossip to press as news just for the scoop value? Is that the new standard for wire stories? No wonder the Rosie/Donald trope is "news" fodder these days.
Posted by: Stephanie at January 9, 2007 08:34 PMMichael: Sorry for the above response to glasnost. I didn't mean to take up the bandwidth. The Kobe steak of reportage requires commentary like champaigne not wine coolers.
Posted by: Stephanie at January 9, 2007 08:53 PMThank you, thank you. Impressive reporting. Michael, when you're at your best, you're just about unbeatable.
Posted by: Pam at January 9, 2007 09:03 PMMichael, journalism like this is dangerous to the mainsteam media and good for democracy. Thank you for taking the risks and raising the standards.
Posted by: savtadotty at January 10, 2007 01:04 AMMichael:
Welll done!
I remember reading your intial posts on your trip to Lebanon and what you hoped to achieve in the middle east.
A bit foolsih, I thought at the time.
Another post-911 blogger -- bleeting warblogger?! -- out to prove his peevish world views.
Boy, was I wrong.
Cheers,
Scot
Wonderful photos.
Hezbollah sure screwed the Christians by putting their rockets there. Of course, that was probably considered to be a benefit.
I wonder what Israel was dropping to make such a big swath of destruction. Whatever it was, it was highly effective yet precise.
Posted by: Strabp the lesser at January 10, 2007 02:53 AMI am not contesting the accuracy of the article, nor of the photographs. However, absent "before" pictures, there simply is no verifiable context given the reader to decide whether or not, as Noah said, "Some real pain got dropped on" Lebanon.
Posted by: Jeff H at January 10, 2007 07:49 AMMT: "Jesus was killed by the Roman Empire."
Reminds me of an old SNL bit where the rappers appologize for blaming the Jews for killing Jesus with a new song that says "it was the eye-talians!" While it is true that Pilate had sole authority to execute it is equally true that without the insistance of the Pharases he would haev been content to simply flog Him. That's neither here nor there, though, and, contary to the gravest concerns of secular Americans I don't see it as that big an issue for any conservative Christians I personally know. I actually think the old "Jews killed Jesus" thing today is more often used as an anti-Christian statement (by implying bigottry) than a truly anti-Semetic statement.
Posted by: submandave at January 10, 2007 08:44 AMAdding my voice to those praising your reporting. It is extremely difficult to understand the dynamics of the issues in the Middle East without 1) understanding the actual history of the region; 2) understanding what is actually happening on the ground. Your reporting has gone a long way in accomplishing both and providing the type of context that is almost always absent in MSM reporting.
It is little different than imagining how an Iranian reporter would "report" back to his/her countrymen on an issue here in the U.S., with precious little understanding of our culture, the background of an issue, etc.
Keep up the fine work. And remain safe while you do so.
Posted by: Dan at January 10, 2007 08:54 AMI actually think the old "Jews killed Jesus" thing today is more often used as an anti-Christian statement (by implying bigottry) than a truly anti-Semetic statement.
Unfortunately, that's not the case in the Middle East, as you can see from "sandra's" comment on MJT's previous dispatch thread.
Posted by: SoCalJustice at January 10, 2007 09:13 AMExcellent work - I wish we could get this kind of in-depth coverage on the Middle East from the MSM.
Posted by: kstagger at January 10, 2007 09:31 AMExcuses.
How did she endanger his career and life?
It's not hard. You think Shiite policemen who report on human rights abuses committed by other Shiite policemen are popular? You think any interested militia can't kill anyone they want?
Did the AP put him in danger by not using a pseudonym in their reports and id'ing him as such?
By allowing himself to be quoted by name, he certainly did accept a certain amount of danger. On the other hand, lots of Iraqis apparently talk to journalists, judging by how often their quotes turn up, you it wouldn't seem illogical to suggest that being quoted in a Western paper represents a marginally elevated risk, whereas being made into a long-running front page story about whether given abuses are true puts you at... a lot LARGER risk. What's the quickest way to make someone hard to find? Dump their body in the Tigris.
The wire services usually all report on the same incidents and stories each day in multiple releases, so why are the stories by Jamil only covered by the AP?
This is ridiculous. It's called a "scoop". Major, obvious events that get press releases handed out about them are covered by multiple services. Between that, news agencies go out and do "reporting". Cultivating individual sources that they - surprise! - don't like to tell people about!
I'm as pleasantly surprised as anyone that Jamil Hussein wasn't stuffed in a pine box in response to requests to produce him, but neither you nor Malkin has the slightest idea what the pressures on him are like, and you never will. On a battlefield full of obvious, undisputed atrocities, burning Sunnis alive just seems... impossible, so bloggers tear off on snipe hunts to rip some skin off major organizations and eat it. And the implications for Jamil Hussein's safety aren't considered for two seconds.
Posted by: glasnost at January 10, 2007 09:31 AMMichael,
I was just beginning to think you were cleaning up your act (albeit with some remaining artifacts of single-source reporting and tough-guy swagger) when I got to the middle of your article and read what amounts to "Christians, Druze, and Sunni all want peace but the Shia worship violence". I do not actually believe you are anti-Shia, but when you claim "I'm not anti-Shia, I'm anti-Hezbollah" and then write stuff like this, I can totally understand why you get criticized as such.
Also, while I'm writing, something I've been wondering...your stories contain a lot of dialogue. Do you have a dictaphone or write it down in some kind of shorthand? Just curious.
Posted by: naha at January 10, 2007 09:38 AMI was just beginning to think you were cleaning up your act (albeit with some remaining artifacts of single-source reporting and tough-guy swagger) when I got to the middle of your article and read what amounts to "Christians, Druze, and Sunni all want peace but the Shia worship violence". I do not actually believe you are anti-Shia, but when you claim "I'm not anti-Shia, I'm anti-Hezbollah" and then write stuff like this, I can totally understand why you get criticized as such.
The main problem with middle eastern societies is that they don't allow criticism.
And frankly I think the part of the article you were refering to was NOT what Michael said, but what those pictures of signs implied.
There were pro-peace signs that posted throughout Lebanon except in the south where Hezbollah doesn't allow them, and then there were the fucking pictures of terrorist and bloody atrocities that Hezbollah posts, hoping to keep people full of hate and ready to kill.
Michael didn't even sayany of that, but a picture is worth a thousand words isn't it?
You don't allow criticism, I can see that. But in this case the criticism is simply implied. Don't attack Michael, attack thought, attack logic, attack truth. No one should see pictures, no one should think. When we're all stupid and blind and afraid, then you can pretend you have the respect you demand.
Posted by: Josh Scholar at January 10, 2007 11:36 AMNaha, I made it clear that I know many, many, Shia who have nothing to do with this crap. I also did not say "the Shia worship violence," I said Hezbollah does.
Hezbollah is a Shia party, but they do not speak for everybody. Only Hezbollah supporters insist that Hezbollah speaks for all Shia. Do not confuse my comments with theirs. Thanks.
As far as quoting dialogue goes, I use a voice recorder and a notepad.
Posted by: Michael J. Totten at January 10, 2007 11:38 AMJeff H: I am not contesting the accuracy of the article, nor of the photographs. However, absent "before" pictures, there simply is no verifiable context given the reader to decide whether or not, as Noah said, "Some real pain got dropped on" Lebanon.
I was in Bint Jbail last year, before the war. There was no rubble or destruction whatsoever then. Sorry, I have no "before" photos. I didn't think there was a reason to take any.
Posted by: Michael J. Totten at January 10, 2007 11:42 AM"This is ridiculous. It's called a "scoop"."
I'm no journalist, but in order for a story to be a "scoop"... doesn't the story in question actually have to have happened first?
Because all the evidence gathered during this 'witch hunt' would seem to point to "no".
Great post, Michael.
Posted by: Nate at January 10, 2007 12:02 PMI got to the middle of your article and read what amounts to "Christians, Druze, and Sunni all want peace but the Shia worship violence".
Naha, that was never said nor even implied and your use of quotation marks is therefore both deceptive and disingenuous.
Posted by: Mertel at January 10, 2007 12:32 PMMr. Sadiche: Please continue to add your illuminating and incisive comments. Because of them, I feel I know almost as much about the Lebanese situation, especially the politico-economic factors, as I do when I read the "Lebanese Political Journal".
Posted by: Johnnypop at January 10, 2007 12:49 PMSadiche is a disgusting excuse for a human being and is absolutely not allowed to post here, ever. Do not respond to his comments.
Posted by: Michael J. Totten at January 10, 2007 12:57 PM"Solomon, they have a sovereign state-within-a-state. Lebanon suffers a schism. Hezbollah has parallel institutions for literally everything. Until August the Lebanese government, police, and army weren't even allowed to set foot in Hezbollah areas. This is still true in the dahiyeh, but at least the army has moved to the border. It is going to take a long time before the government has any actual authority over the whole country." MJT
This is absolute bullshit. The biggest proof of this is that their was a UN interim force in the south, under the permission of the government to be there, as well as police who, in lebanon, wear blue army uniforms. Ask anyone. Even in Tyre which is considered as south lebanon controlled by hizbollah and Amal, their were and still are army checkpoints. Only in conflict zones were the army not allowed etc and this was by the way allowed by the government in the first place.
They knew they couldn't deal with occupied territory, the people and hizbollah asked for a special grant to control themselves and that grant was given by macro-harriri (not the current mini one).
I want to point out a hypocracy about Macro-Harriri. In 1993 or 97 i forgot, Sayyid Hassan asked for all martyrs to have a special graveyard made for them on a hill overlooking beirut international airport. Harriri straight and flatly refused. He said to a journalist in private "do you know what this means? It means every visitor will be welcomed by dead people in their graves. The first thing people will see of lebanon is a graveyard." I see his point but i don't see whats so wrong with it and what it is that's making him ashamed of this. In America and Britain especially, all attractions have memorials of war heroes or gravesites. Anyway, after this person dies, what does this same government do? They call the airport itself "Martyr Rafiq Harriri Airport". I mean come the fuck on. Firstly, many many MANY people don't believe this guy died a martyr, including myself, many more people don't even believe in the word and much more still don't even like the guy. So why not bury brave heroes who died for the sake of freeing the country NEAR the airport, but call the airport itself a biased and dumb name as that. I'd rather it be called Hassan Nasrallah Airport, because as far as i know hassan nasrallah is a much MUCH bigger, and more popular + respected man in and out of lebanon than harriri ever has and will be. Or Martyr Hadi Nasrallah Airport, the son of sayyid hassan who died at around 19 fighting the israelis while harriri was busy thinkin of how the money he begged of the world should be partitioned between him, seniora and a few others.
Posted by: hezbollah lover at January 10, 2007 01:03 PMHezbollah Lover,
Sorry, I meant to say "the border area" rather than all "Hezbollah areas."
Posted by: Michael J. Totten at January 10, 2007 01:06 PM"Assistance from the Lebanese government in Hezbollah-controlled areas is not allowed by Hezbollah. This is the only way Hezbollah can earn points for "charity." You know it, too, although I'm sure you'll deny it." MJT
Oh, please, spare me the bullshit totten. You know this is not true and so do I. This is plain bullshit and im getting fed up of it. Heres me, a fucking original lebanese who knows much more about his own country than any of you, telling you that YES the government is allowed to do alot in hizbollah controlled areas, exept anything that will collide with hizbollah's operations and arms in these areas.
You would be so dumb not to realise this, the simplest and dumbest way to know this is true and that hizbollah is not a state within a state is because in their education system they have the same curriculum as everyone else. That is just the dumbest and simplest reason that any fool would realise exept you. You think you're the god of info and talk to me as if you mastered lebanon when you hardly answer ANY1's arguement, including mines and abrahams who raised v good questions left unanswered.
Hizbollah has raised its own hospitals, so fucking what. Its like the NHS in Britain, they provide the health service in here, does that mean they are a state within a state. Its a fucking institution. You dumb ass american's promote capitalistic competition and economies, here's hizbollah. They are doing what so many american firms and institutions do, invest in different programs, including economic ones. They have their own hospital, educational and security institutions, which is allowed in western countries, why is it not allowed in hizbollah?
Hizbollah saw the government wasn't able nor willing to help the south or any areas in poverty. They simply wanted the rish to become richer and the poor, well, either stay as poor, or become poorer or become richer, its up to them. They're not lebanese if they don't have some cash, they can just sort themselves out, the government don't care.
Some dumb person i noted said hizbollah doesn't pay tax. Ofcourse they don't, and so doesn't anyone in lebanon who's worth 100K or above. But every poor motherfucker has to pay all the tax, and now there are MORE and NEW taxes for the paris 3 begging conference. Hizbollah did not even ALLOW anyone in the south pay for water, electricity etc. The only thing they did pay for is luxury items, duty free and tax free, food, fuel, gas and land. The rest of the services were free. Since when did the government do this? Tell me, i beg of you. The government did not invest in the south nor did their institutions. This is why it seems as if hizbollah dominated/monopolised the area with theirs.
BTW it is a fact that hizbollah institutions provide fairer prices for trade items and better service quality than any other institution in lebanon. Their are even many christians who went to hizbollah schools and were treated in hizbollah hospital. THE biggest proof of your lies is that i can tell you now the names and location of three schools in hizbollah territory built and un by the government. Theres the Alma School, in an area, well, called 'alma. You know Naqoura in the south, the one with aq seaport where all UNIFIL 2 soldiers came in to lebanon from, just up the hill from their is Alma, and the school is their. Its a big white building, it can be seen from miles away.
Theirs another school in suburbs of tyre. The Soor English school. That is built in Borj Al Shamali. Take a taxi to their and ask for the english school, thats also a governmental school. Theirs the Tyre Harfa Elimentary School, newly built by the government, no longer than 2/3 years ago. Tyre Harfa is in DEEP DEEP hizbollah territory. The worst hit area from the occupation. The most village with hizbollah recruits. My dad is from their. People their are with hizbollah militarily, but with amal politically.
Im sure their are many many more. This proves your lies wrong totten. The government was not allowed to intervene in military and security matters in hizbollah's areas, no more no less. Not one spy has been caught by the government since 1948, hizbollah has unfoiled many many spy networks, the latest was in lebanon just before the war by around 2 months and during the war, both were the biggest spy networks, one in hizbollah territory and the other wasn't. In both cases, hizbollah informed the government and the government carried out the arrests and put these people in custody. They found out, hizbollah, found out that they were all black and iraqi immigrants working for israel, hardly any were lebanese. And that my friend is one fucking hard task to execute.
Posted by: hezbollah lover at January 10, 2007 01:26 PMJef, you seem like an idiot too.
Their are countless towns, cities and villages still severely damaged by the civil war and in no way under hizbollah influence or authority what so ever. Its been 17 years, what has been done abou it? nothing. There are still many hundreds of thousands of christians who were drivnen out of their homes by the druze who re-settled in their villages (not saying occupied because its plain stupid to say a lebanese is occupying lebanon, its his frigin country i.e. like totten said hizbollah is in effect occupying downtown public areas, THEYRE FUCKING PUBLIC, THEYRE SUPPOSED TO HAVE SOME LEBANESE OCCUPANTS THEIR, or is it the QUALITY of those lebanese that defines if they have a right to be or not to be in those public squares, they are fucking lebanese and you're not, they have more right to be in those squares than you are, if they are occupying then you're invading) and still have not been guaranteed safe passage back to their homes, or compensation for the damage and homes lost or land stolen and taken or or or.
The only thing they managed to do with the money was buy a cement factory, now owned by harriri co and druze leader and mass killing murdered junblat, and partially re-build downtown beirut which was blitzed by the nazi's and then fuked even more by the christian militias. Totten doesn't have time to question the authority of those militiamen who on several accounts have been caught with illegal and unregistered weapons, alot of which were israeli made, as well as catch silencers being sent to the future party's militia, never to be questioned or the man the bagage belinged to not arrested. And all the information that some, not all, but some political persons in the future movement and 14th march in general had collaborated with the IDF and IAF to root out hizbollah and other targets in lebanon SUSPECTED of being the location of where sayyid hassan had been.
This is perpetration and vetrayal of the nation as well and un-patriotic act against the nation, which should be punishable. Why don't you speak abou that MR totten?
Another thing i want to correct is that sayyid hassan or hizbollah had nothing to do with the incident where the sit-in people tried to storm into the seniora office. If hizbollah wanted to storm the serail they wouldn't bother with shit head civilians to do it when theres barbed wires and army personnel etc, they'll just send in some armed special force unit to take the fucking capital itself, not just that kak building. It was the people who were hyped up since it was the first day, normal casual civilians, ALOT of them christians btw i saw a AWN guy being carried away by the army, and it wasnt sayyid hassan who called it off because he didn't even know about it until an hour later, it was nabih berri who was foned up by seniora who told him whats hapening and who told him the "i cant control my street" speech.
Please all of you tell me, this man used civil war to threaten the other side, when did hizbollah do this?
This man threatened civil war just because he was going to be ousted by his own people, when our people were gunned down in a peaceful sit in and sayyid hassan didn't say "sorry i cant control my own street" and declare civil war because of this, he acted like a true patriot and said if they killed 1000 of us we will never turn our guns away from enemies and towards them. We will trade bullets with roses.
Who's the bad guy:
"i cant control my own street boo hoo hoo mumyyyy"
or
"we will trade your bullets with roses"
??? the decision is yours pro
"There are obviously Sunni Muslims, Christians and Druze in both Northern Israel and Lebanon (and I know there are some familial relations between Israeli and Lebanese Arabs/Druze) - but I've never heard of any Shia population in Northern Israel - which seems strange since they're so predominant in Southern Lebanon in close proximity."
Most of SLA was shia (good pay, poor people), nearly all fled to Nahariya in northern israel.
My aunties husband was one of the pussies, he fled to Nahariyya as well, him my auntie and their 7 kids now live in northern israel - all shia. They also have newly been granted the israeli citizenship and coming soon to britain.
May seem strange coming from me, but i can't lie can i. but shhhh dnt tll no1 lool
Posted by: hezbollah lover at January 10, 2007 01:52 PMGreat reporting, Michael. You have my sympathy for having to deal with idiot trolls like H Lover, etc. It's people like them that make the question I have for you a serious one.
It's this, and I'm skipping all the feel-good, human rights, you-can't-do-that horsecrap and cutting to the chase: do you REALLY think there is any hope for establishing peace in S. Lebanon without ethnically cleansing the Shia from the area?
Posted by: mac at January 10, 2007 01:56 PMMac: do you REALLY think there is any hope for establishing peace in S. Lebanon without ethnically cleansing the Shia from the area?
After war or revolution at least serious political change in Syria and Iran, yes. Until then, no.
In any case, ethnic-cleansing is absolutely unacceptable, period.
Posted by: Michael J. Totten at January 10, 2007 02:02 PMyou can, for a change, try political CHANGE in israel, america and west in general, as well as the fall of every arab regime.
Its harder, but much MUCH more effective, believe me.
Posted by: hezbollah lover at January 10, 2007 02:10 PMHL-
Couple of notes about your post. If you are trying to convince someone of your position, starting off by calling them an idiot is not a great strategy.
Maybe my question wasn't clear. I didn't ask about any other players in Lebanon. I just asked how you could call HA effective when there doesn't seem to be any evidence of it.
I never said they don't have the right to meet in downtown Beirut. I said it doesn't make sense to me that they would do so instead of taking care of the areas under their control.
If you plan on writing back to call me an idiot or stupid, don't bother. However, if you would like to explain to me the positive things HA has done for Lebanon, I am all ears.
I am trying to help you put together an argument supporting the group you love. So far your argument has been that everybody who disagrees with them is stupid or venal.
Posted by: Jeff at January 10, 2007 02:55 PMHezbollah Lover: you can, for a change, try political CHANGE in israel, america and west in general, as well as the fall of every arab regime.
The entire world will not submit to or revolve around you (or anyone else).
Posted by: Michael J. Totten at January 10, 2007 03:07 PMJosh: Regarding your picture-is-worth-a-thousand-words comment, I was referring to the pictures and the text. Regarding the last paragraph of your message, I have no idea what you are trying to say, swathed as your comment was in sarcasm and self-reflexiveness. But your comment proved a valuable point in that you didn't refute my claim, but rather just attempted to correct my expression of it.
Michael: Thanks for your response, as I'm sure I appear to be just another detractor. Again, I absolutely believe you to be tolerant and more of Shia. And yes, you've explicitly written pro-Shia statements. I'm just saying the sum impression of this piece, as someone who knows the writer not to be anti-Shia, was still anti-Shia.
Mertel: That is why I said "what amounts to" before "Christians, Druze, and Sunni all want peace but the Shia worship violence". And I obviously do believe that was what was implied. I never would have thought that anyone would interpret the quoted piece as an actual quotation from the article. So I'm going to have to plead not guilty to the charges of dishonesty and disingenuousness.
Posted by: Naha at January 10, 2007 03:24 PM~~~Posted by hezbollah lover at January 10, 2007 01:52 PM~~~
Can't almost believe my eyes ~
So that means your uncle fought in fact the rest of your family in lebanon?
Huh??
Posted by: tsedek at January 10, 2007 03:24 PMI'm just saying the sum impression of this piece, as someone who knows the writer not to be anti-Shia, was still anti-Shia.
The only evidence you've supplied to back yourself up is a quote that wasn't a quote and a statement that that's how you feel. If we take a look at an authentic quote it's plain that your claim is unsubstantiated:
"Last year a series of billboards all over Beirut said Say No to Anger, Say No to War, and Say No to Terrorism. Hezbollah would never allow anything of the sort to be erected in their parts of Lebanon, even though I know lots of Shia who agree with those sentiments."
Posted by: Mertel at January 10, 2007 03:41 PMThat should have read: "I'm just saying my sum impression..." and the point I'm re-iterating is basically while you are not personally anti-Shia, you sometimes give ammunition to folks who have an ax to grind on this point.
Posted by: Naha at January 10, 2007 03:41 PMHold it! Stop the presses!
New evidence produced on long-standing murder case:
"While it is true that Pilate had sole authority to execute it is equally true that without the insistance of the Pharases he would haev been content to simply flog Him."
Please someone tell me that I'm not having an acid flashback.
Posted by: ankhfkhonsu at January 10, 2007 04:17 PMNaha: I'm just saying the sum impression of this piece, as someone who knows the writer not to be anti-Shia, was still anti-Shia.
How do you think I should have explained this situation instead? This is a serious question, and I'm asking you because you seem to be reasonable and might have a constructive suggestion.
If 70 percent of the Shia support Hezbollah to one extent or another, it is very hard to criticize Hezbollah without at least appearing to be opposed to the Shia as a whole.
Posted by: Michael J. Totten at January 10, 2007 04:19 PMJosh: Regarding your picture-is-worth-a-thousand-words comment, I was referring to the pictures and the text. Regarding the last paragraph of your message, I have no idea what you are trying to say, swathed as your comment was in sarcasm and self-reflexiveness. But your comment proved a valuable point in that you didn't refute my claim, but rather just attempted to correct my expression of it.
You clearly have no idea what I was saying.
It was completely clear that Michael said that Hezbollah, not the Shiites worship violence, since you accused him of saying the latter, it was obvious to me that you, like "hezbollah lover" and some others Hezbollah members and supporters who have commented, are claiming that Hezbollah = Shiites.
Was my grammer too advance? I'll say it in simple sentences. Michael didn't say that Shiites worship violence. You did! He only spoke of Hezbollah. By implication, you equated Hezbollah with all Shiites, Michael did not.
Thus I assumed that you are a Hezbollah supporter. So I responded to you as Hezbollah.
Do you understand now?
And I wasn't being quite as sarcastic as you might think. It occured to me that Michael's criticism was well deserved and that your objection to it was not that it was false, but that no criticism of the Shiites can ever be allowed, especially criticism of the mujahidin, and never from from an infidel.
Thus, with criticism never allowed, you are stuck forever. Backward forever.
Do I understand you properly?
Posted by: Josh Scholar at January 10, 2007 04:29 PMHL,
Shia in Nahariya, huh?
Thanks.
That's actually pretty cool.
As for your characterization of your relative - whatever, it looks like it was the smart move.
Still, demographically, being that there are so many Sunni, Christian and Druze Israelis/Palestinians, I'm surprised there aren't more Shia in the North (and no indigenous to speak of, sounds like) - since they're so prominent in Southern Lebanon.
Posted by: SoCalJustice at January 10, 2007 04:43 PMView this clip
Following is a Lebanese protest song, which aired on LBC TV on January 8, 2007:
The leaders have fled from Lebanon.
Our happiness has grown.
Now we can live in security.
Our world has become a paradise.
The leaders have fled from Lebanon.
Our happiness has grown.
Now we can live in security.
Our world has become a paradise.
The leaders have fled from Lebanon.
Our happiness has grown.
Now we can live in security.
Our world has become a paradise.
The leaders have fled from Lebanon.
Our happiness has grown.
Now we can live in security.
Our world has become a paradise.
The leaders have fled from Lebanon.
Our world has become a paradise.
One is in Geneva, talking to himself all day long.
Another is a guest in Saudi Arabia, afraid of being assassinated.
The third – his palace is like a fortress. He surrounds himself with the people.
The fourth holds a sword in his hand, and fights his shadow in a room.
Nobody wants you.
My people lives on without you.
May Allah protect you, but your absence gives us peace.
The leaders have fled from Lebanon.
Our happiness has grown.
Now we can live in security.
Our world has become a paradise.
The leaders have fled from Lebanon.
Our world has become a paradise.
There is nothing on television, except for politicians,
talking in a hundred colors, as if they are saints.
We sit and watch them every night, intoxicated with their stories.
We don't believe any one of them. It turns out they are all liars.
It turns out we are in the wrong.
We have been deceived.
Oh, learn from this, my poor people, that they are the source of all our troubles.
The leaders have fled from Lebanon.
Our happiness has grown.
Now we can live in security.
Our world has become a paradise.
The leaders have fled from Lebanon.
Our world has become a paradise.
We are fed up with words and theories.
We need to find a solution for them.
I thought about a great big boat, which would carry them off and disappear.
They we would have peace and quiet, and we would be able to sing.
Turn the boat around and leave.
Don't stay in the harbor even one moment longer.
Carry them off, and take them far away.
Let them dissolve in the water.
Make sure you don't return them to us, until our honor has been restored.
The leaders have fled from Lebanon.
Our happiness has grown.
Now we can live in security.
Our world has become a paradise.
The leaders have fled from Lebanon.
Our happiness has grown.
Now we can live in security.
Our world has become a paradise.
Josh,
There is a sort of "political correctness" in Lebanon where people have to be very careful how they talk about fellow Lebanese from other sects. Not everyone adheres to this, and some are stridently bigoted. Others adhere to the general rules and express sectarian sentiments very subtly.
Foreigners like me often get lumped into the latter category, and I don't quite understand how to navigate very foreign PC rules. Sometimes these accusations are entirely bogus, other times not.
It is often assumed that because I am nominally "Christian" that I have some of the same built-in biases that Lebanese Christians often have. Of course, I do not. I didn't grow up in that environment and don't have their mental categories in my head.
That's why I'm asking Naha for advice. We'll see if any advice is reasonable and constructive or not.
Posted by: Michael J. Totten at January 10, 2007 05:05 PMmichael
what you see is Material stuff that can be replaced , the triumph inside is worth it. Finally Israel is no longer the Country that not be defeated and a few hezbollah defeeated it , while 3 armies with tanks and planes could NOT. Michael , Hezbollah won , get over it.
farida
Michael, I'm sure that Lebanese have developed some sort of political correctness to keep the number of civil wars and pograms down somewhat, but I'm not entirely convinced that there is a real distiction to be made here. After all, there are no Muslim societies that allow criticism, and certainly no Arab countries. Freedom of expression is not a value.
Beyond that, the assumption of absolute superiority and contempt for the infidel comes into play. When Ali Salem was asked how the world, how democracy activists outside of Egypt can help the pro-democracy movement inside of Egypt, he said "leave us alone! You can not help!" There is so much xenophobia and other attitude about outsiders that I think our words can not be listened to and our help can not be accepted.
I heard a British officer being interviewed about Iraq today. He said that in many areas there is only peace as long as the American army is there. So if you as any Iraqi if he wants more American troups in his area he will say yes, but at the same time he will claim to oppose "the occupation". There it is, you know. They need our help but can't really cooperate with it. They may be personally sane, but the collective face trumps the personal one, and the collective face is completely insane. Dangerously insane.
Anyway that song I posted above is the first sign of sanity I've seen.
They need
Posted by: Josh Scholar at January 10, 2007 05:24 PMIgnore the sentence fragment that I forgot to delete at the end of my comment.
Posted by: Josh Scholar at January 10, 2007 05:25 PMThe Compassionate government did not bother to visit those areas , and when the Christian Leaders did visit the south , Hezbollah had already checked on the locals and helped them with food and medecine.18 christian towns and villages .
Posted by: farida at January 10, 2007 05:27 PMfarida,
What exactly did Hezbollah win? What were there objectives? The "triumph" was worth what, exactly? And if it was all worth it, why has Nasrallah said that he would never have launched his attack in the first place if he had known what the final outcome would have been?
Posted by: Mertel at January 10, 2007 05:30 PMThey need to eject the collective face of their sects and become citizens.
Posted by: Josh Scholar at January 10, 2007 05:34 PMActually farida, forget it. You can go back to writing supportive comments at the most disgusting anti-semitic site that I've seen in a while. Anything you have to say isn't worth my time.
Posted by: Mertel at January 10, 2007 05:49 PMMertel, she is amazing.
I started to comment on her web site, but decided I don't want to sully this thread.
Posted by: Josh Scholar at January 10, 2007 06:05 PMWow, that is one truly horrible Web site. Gack.
Posted by: Michael J. Totten at January 10, 2007 06:28 PMBut it is really honest. I mean, what could be clearer that she eats, sleeps and breathes Chicken Poop? She misspells "cojones," though.
Josh, may I tell her how I really feel?
Posted by: nichevo at January 10, 2007 06:35 PMBetter to do it on HER site than on this thread, I'd think.
Posted by: Josh Scholar at January 10, 2007 06:37 PMOr not. After all you wouldn't be the first person who pointed out that she's a monster. No doubt she just deletes criticism.
Posted by: Josh Scholar at January 10, 2007 06:41 PMSo probably email is the best course.
Posted by: Josh Scholar at January 10, 2007 06:42 PMWow, that site is nasty. Palestinians (and other Arabs and Muslims) make "friends" like that at their peril.
Hopefully too many won't fall into that trap.
Reminds me of Wendy Campbell of the Bay Area - famous for pushing the "Kosher Nostra Tax" meme, who fashioned herself as a pro-Palestinian activist and posted all over Indymedia till they realized she was more of a Nazi than anything else.
She's still trying, but I think less and less are buying her as someone who can help them.
Posted by: SoCalJustice at January 10, 2007 06:58 PMSuperb work Michael.
I was especially inspired by photos of the Lebanese billboards that say no to war, and declare that they love life and peace.
This is the kind of medicine that will cure the illness of Hezbollah's death-cult mentality and pressure them to disarm. But .. it will be a long and tough journey.
Posted by: Jono at January 10, 2007 08:00 PMsubmandave
contrary to the gravest concerns of secular Americans I don't see it as that big an issue for any conservative Christians I personally know. I actually think the old "Jews killed Jesus" thing today is more often used as an anti-Christian statement (by implying bigottry) than a truly anti-Semetic statement.
Thank g-d for most Protestants and Catholics I hope in America this is true however, none speak to soon in this own thread.........
farida
the triumph inside is worth it. Israel is no longer the Country that not be defeated and a few hezbollah defeeated it , while 3 armies with tanks and planes could NOT. Michael , Hezbollah won , get over it.
Mertel
Actually farida, forget it. You can go back to writing supportive comments at the most disgusting anti-semitic site that I've seen in a while. Anything you have to say isn't worth my time.
Here is the site Mertel is referring to -
http://joannafrancis.wordpress.com/
Ironically titled "NO PEACE WITHOUT JUSTICE"
Here is a small sampling of some of the latest posts -
THE OLD BLOOD LIBEL -
Jews have been the driving force behind legalizing abortion in (formerly) Christian countries, such as the United States, France, England, Canada, et al. But in some Western nations, the people still have a modicum common sense, and refuse to allow Jews to get rich performing their favorite pastime: Jewish ritual killing of Christian babies.
By the way the 16th Century German Nun Anne Emerich who had "visions" of what really happened to Jesus (1500 years later) and wrote a book about her visions, also fully believed in the blood libel and wrote about it in her book. Mel Gibson highly praises her book and used it as a basis for his movie by the way
NEXT POST your typical HOLOCAUST "minimization" or sly "denial"?
Holy Holocaust! by Edgar J. Steele
Notice that the most recent sign in front of the Auschwitz museum lowers the number of Jews killed to 1.5 million. Yet the official toll of 6 million Jews killed in the “Holocaust” is never likewise lowered.
ACUUSING THIS POPE AND NEW VATICAN OF HERESY (DaVinci Code anybody?)
The Amazing Heresies of Benedict XVI
This video gives incontrovertible proof that Fr. Joseph Ratzinger, a.k.a., Benedict XVI, is a manifest heretic. As such, infallible Catholic teaching dictates that such a man cannot be a legitimate pope. Traditional Catholics who scoff at the idea that the Chair of Peter is vacant (sede vacante) will have a difficult time reconciling the blatantly heretical statements and actions of Fr. Ratzinger with their belief that he is somehow still pope. Those Catholics who accuse sedevacantists of not accepting the recent popes are the ones who show no regard for the august position of Head of the Mystical Body of Christ. It is the sedevacantists who have such reverence for that highest of all human thrones that we refuse to accept an imposter upon it.
By the way Gibson and his father do not accept the New Vatican and would likely agree with (definitely his father) most posted on this website.
Suddenly the heretical behavior portrayed in the DaVincii Code http://imdb.com/title/tt0382625/ don't seem so "fictional"...
Mike
Posted by: Mike Nargizian at January 11, 2007 12:29 AMMichael J Totten
"any hope for establishing peace in S. Lebanon without ethnically cleansing the Shia from the area?"
After war or revolution at least serious political change in Syria and Iran, yes. Until then, no.
In any case, ethnic-cleansing is absolutely unacceptable, period.
hezbollah lover
you can, for a change, try political CHANGE in israel, america and west in general, as well as the fall of every arab regime.
Its harder, but much MUCH more effective, believe me.
Michael you have way more patience than me. In my world when I read a guy like Hezbollah lover or farida I just simply take them for what they are and tune out.
Fortunately in America we don't have nuts like that as the Zeitgeist of the country.
In Lebanon as your friend said you have to fight (in the arena of "ideas" "politics" and unfortunately in "violence" too) people like that every day of your life....
Thank G-d I live in America.
Mike
Posted by: Mike Nargizian at January 11, 2007 12:34 AM"The entire world will not submit to or revolve around you (or anyone else)."
Exactly. And neither will our world. Once you learn to compromise on the terms of give and take, then wil be the day we accomplish a stable base for understanding and negotiations. Who knows, maybe even a lastin peace and less hatred from both sides.
Catch my drift?
You don't want your "world" to change, why should our "world" change.
Posted by: hezbollah lover at January 11, 2007 05:45 AMMJT - "Sorry, I meant to say "the border area" rather than all "Hezbollah areas." "
MJT - "This is true in the Dahiyeh"
You just contradicted yourself. What has the border got to do with dahiyeh, the former is down south, with israel, and the latter is up north, part of beirut.
You didn't make a mistake, you just made something up and when you saw you were wrong and i was right, you corrected yourself.
It wasn't accidental, but intended. This is the thing about throwing a stone, if it doesn't hit your target, it'll hit something beside/behind it.
Unless you believe in two contradictory things at one time, i dunno.
Posted by: hezbollah lover at January 11, 2007 05:51 AMJeff - "If you plan on writing back to call me an idiot or stupid, don't bother. However, if you would like to explain to me the positive things HA has done for Lebanon, I am all ears."
No, i don't just call everyone who argues with me stupid or an idiot, but when they say something stupid or idiotic, i point it out and let them hear my views of them when they say such things.
Now, back to your question. What has Hizbollah done to help its people or lebanon. Now, you would have to be blind not to notice, but you could also be a person who doesn't follow the politics in that region. Im taking you as the latter.
1) Hizbollah has been the first to forcefully move israeli occupation off arab lands. They re-captured the south of lebanon in the year 2000 when the israelis fled after 15 years of resistance (from Hizbollah) against the IDF who invaded and illegaly occupied nearly the whole country, but later on withdrew and left a security zone, which was in the south.
2) Hizbollah, as an organisation (not just armed group like alot of people think they are) was able to invest and establish an exceptionally strong military force able to DETER, notice i never said defeat etc This detterance would be later used to fail any aims of mass invasion of lebanon, or occupation of any part of lebanon. Maybe a force would be able and willing to do it, but the point is with a powerful military and intelligence service, such as hizbollah, they would re-consider many times and take into account the losses they would be lossing if they took such a decision. Note also that hizbollah was able to do this without the world's help. American troops for example are based all around the world where they train and get trained in different invoronments and armies, hizbollah only has iran and syria to help.
3) As an organisation, Hizbollah was also able to revive civil and civilian structures and infrastructur in all areas abandoned by the lebanese government. A whole section of a country as vast as the south is, accounting for nearly 1/4 of the country as a "constituency" if you like, can not be left without a school or hospital for a single day. Hizbollah therefore helped themselves and created parallel institutions to those of the governments, such as the health service and education service but never broke lebanons sovereignty in doing so because they use the same curriculum for example in their schools. As proof of not breaking or ignoring the lebanese sovereignty or authority, these buildings were put up from permission from the government, and the paperworks needed from the different relevant ministries run by the government. This is legal in any country in the world, but it seems to some people it isn't in lebanon. If Hizbollah really did want to ignore lebanons sovereignty and authority, they would've had their own education, health and energy ministries., Or even a whole new transitional government controlling their areas. Thats something shattering to sovereignty, not building a couple of hospitals and schools in areas lacking them.
4) They were the ones who reconstructed the areas they were present in, such as roads, civilian buildings, water and sewer pipes and much more all damaged by the IDF during their invasions and occupations. This also includes supporting farmers and investing in agriculture which was severed by the mines layed and unexploded sum-munitions droped on the arable lands.
5) They made two whole units, one called the Hezbollah Explosives Engineer Unit and the other the Hizbollah Rocket/Munitions Engineer Unit. Both were the only units working to clear lands of mines and unexploded munitions/sub-munitions. The government is still to send any of their units, until the war when they decided to send a pocket full of engineers alongside some independents and UNIFIL engineers to do the job. It takes three organisations to work together to do the job. Hizbollah did it by itself using two units belonging to them.
6) Charity and welfare. They set up different organisations to deal with charitable work such as feeding the poor, employing the unemployed, looking after orphans and other matters such as illness and disease. Two of the many charities were one to deal with the family in general of a martyr and the other is to educate his/her children (for free) and compensate the family. These two are a little bit interlinked. What basically happens is after a martyr is killed in hizbollah or amal fighting against the israelis, the family is paid monthly as much as the martyr used to be paid up untilone of the children is old enough and has a job good enough to look after the family himself. During the time gap before the martyrs' family has a member old enough to take responsibility, they are treated for free, given perscription for free and the children are educated for free. If a Hizbollah fighter is injured, he is given a sum to compensate damages as well as free treatment. And until he is back to normal, wages continue as normal. Other charitable projectz includes an organisation to help fishers and another to help farmers.
7) Maintanance and security. They are responsible for keeping the areas they are in under control and apt. But not policing. Police was and still is in the areas hizbollah is in. Security means foiling spy networks, riots, protecting private and public squares etc. Maintanance means maintaining all the services needed in the region they operate in etc
Now you might be thinking wtf is this, hizbollah is doing everything the government SHOULD be doing. Yes, they are, but this is under the supervision of the government, acceptance of government andbefore anything happens or hizbollah deals with anything, they must ask permission and they do.
Posted by: hezbollah lover at January 11, 2007 06:35 AMInteresting HL.
You write of a charity that has guns. I don't know of any other armed charity. You say HA is a political party that responds to the request of the Lebanese Government, but they kidnapped Israeli soldiers (a clear act of war) without prior government approval. Earlier, as MJT pointed out, you wrote the best solution was for the rest of the world to change to reflect HA's needs.
We may never be able to convince each other, but history ultimately will. The great sins of the 20th century were committed by armed political movements so sure of their causes that they destroyed the countries they were meant to protect.
If and when HA takes over Lebanon you will come to regret it. That is not a threat, just a predicti