Michael J. Totten: Bashir

October 02, 2005

Bashir

You know you’re in a Christian part of Lebanon when you see a photograph of Bashir Gemayel on a wall.

He was a Christian, a warlord, the head of the Phalange, a bit of a Franco-type fascist, and briefly the President of Lebanon in 1982.

If you appreciate black humor, here are two fun quotes from Bashir:

First, about Lebanon during the civil war: “This is not Norway here, and it is not Denmark.”

And this, one of the last things he ever said in his life: “To all those who don’t like the idea of me as President, I say: they will get used to it.” Just a few moments later - BOOM. He was assassinated with a bomb planted by Syrian agents.

UPDATE: I have quite a few Lebanese readers already, and they're slugging it out in the comments. (Welcome to Lebanon, indeed. Politics is the national sport here.) Bashir Gemayel is a real lightning rod in this country. Usually my comments are filled with Americans slugging it out. This is a refreshing change...I think.

Posted by Michael J. Totten at October 2, 2005 03:06 AM

Comments

The mere sight of this fascist thug makes me sick.
May he rot in mass murderers' hell.

Posted by: Karl at October 2, 2005 04:28 AM

And what amazes me is the amount of worship he still gets in Lebanon--are you living in Ashrafieh? Count how many Bashir posters have you seen so far.

Karl's right--he can rot in murderers' hell.

How is your stay in Beirut so far? I will be there at the end of October (w/Kais of beirutbeltway.blogspot.com) and every time I go, I am always amazed at how many more Americans are living there. It's becoming a very popular destination these days--despite the spate of bombings. Enjoy it while you can--you will miss it when you leave.

In the meantime, don't forget to count the Bashir posters.

Posted by: AW at October 2, 2005 06:29 AM

I wonder if the Khomeini posters also make the above readers, sick, invoke visions of "murderers' hell," and make them amazed at "the amount of worship" he still gets in parts of Lebanon.

And it's not a matter of "Christian" areas. It's specific to predominantly LF areas.

Posted by: Tony at October 2, 2005 08:17 AM

The one-liner about not being Denmark seems to be a popular one among the Phalangists. In their excellent book on the Lebanon war, "Israel's Lebanon War", journalists Ze'ev Schiff and Ehud Ya'ari tell of their meeting with a Phalangist liaison officer who delighted in describing the horrors they planned to visit on the Palestinians (even before the assassination of Gemayel), though he piously explained that the Phalange do not rape girls under twelve. When the Israelis responded with revulsion, he sniffed "This isn't Switzerland or Denmark, you know".

The truth is, there are no real good guys in that conflict. Christians, Moslems, Druse, they all slaughter each other. Bashir Gemayel was right, it's not Denmark. The Palestinians in south Lebanon treated the local Shia so horribly that they actually welcomed the Israelis.

Posted by: MarkC at October 2, 2005 09:01 AM

Tony,

Who was talking about Khomeini? Michael's post was commenting on Bashir so I commented on Bashir. I happen to have a low opinion of Bashir (as I do with many other Lebanese/Middle East politicians.) If and when he posts on Khomeini, I will comment on Khomeini. And who are you to assume I don't have a problem with Khomeini?

Why is it, on all of your blog responses (and I have read enough to know), you are extremely accusatory to other readers unless they have a blinding DISCLAIMER on who they support and do not support in Lebanese politics? No one needs to advertise anything to you.

Posted by: AW at October 2, 2005 10:45 AM

AW
Keep in mind that this Tony Badran guy himself is an extreme right wing phalangist fanatic who was raised in the cult of the criminal warlord Bachir. Today, the idiot worships Bush and Sharon and writes for McCarthyist rag Campus Watch !
I am a Lebanese Christian and I can tell you : these bloodthirsty fascists are a disgrace to our community. You guys are right. The mere sight of Bachir makes us want to puke

Posted by: Ray at October 2, 2005 11:36 AM

Tony's comment is a symptom of the "us vs them" neocon mentality. If you're not with Bashir, you must be with Khomeyni. What a pathetic moron !

Posted by: Mustapha at October 2, 2005 11:39 AM

What is also amazing is how the Lebanese Christian Fanatics are always ready to be used and to serve other people's agendas. Why on earth would an Arab write for Campus Watch ? Are they masochists or plain stupid ? For money perhaps. These guys would sell their mothers and fathers for a few bucks.

Posted by: Blogger at October 2, 2005 12:08 PM

In the lawlessness of the war, every group committed horrible crimes that they would not and could not have committed during periods of law and order.

Lebanon was the best example of Plato's ring: what would men do if shame was taken away; if they could walk around invisible to other men and do whatever they wanted?

I used to be filled with the blind hatred of the above commenters. What changed my mind is looking at how the LF looks at their leader. Why is he so revered?

I've never heard anyone in the LF say that Bashir was great because he committed massacres.

Like Americans skip over the Constitution permitting slavery, LF members skip over the massacres.
Interestingly enough, however, the Guardians of the Cedars (the uber-right wing Christian organization), did and does cheer for Palestinian murders.
Many Khomeini supporters uphold his oppression of women and the destruction of Bahai temples.
Some Arabs (Christian and Muslim) cheered at America being hit on 9/11.

An icon (which is what Bashir has become) must be seen through the perspective of those worshipping it. If that perspective is reasonable and promotes respectable attributes, it does not negate the evils done in the name of the icon, but it does give humanity to different groups.

If Christians worshipped the Crusades and Spanish Inquisition, I would have a much different opinion of Christianity.

Posted by: lebanon.profile at October 2, 2005 12:13 PM

Michael -

Welcome to Lebanon! One post that just dealt humorously with one issue in Lebanon has just brought about a slew of insults ...

Besides that, enjoy your time here.

Posted by: Lazarus at October 2, 2005 12:30 PM

Interesting debate.
It seems to me than Lebanon Profile above suffers from the "Liberal Muslim" Syndrome.
Liberal Muslims go out of their way to prove their moderation, even if it means finding attenuating circumstances to the worst Christian criminals and describing them as "icons". In doing this, the "Muslim Liberals" undermine the Christian moderates, who reject ruthless fascist militiamen.
The same phenomenon exists on the Christian side, as some Christians, who want to appear openminded and moderates, keep cajoling the Hezballah theocratic maffia,thus undermining Muslim secularists and progressives who are sick of Hizballah.
This is Lebanon's tragedy, the extremes need each others to justify their very existence, and they survive at the expense of ordinary decent Lebanese citizens who hate them both.
LF and Hizbollah, Bachir and Khomeyni are two sides of the same coin. Each tries to retain control of their community by scaring people senseless about "the other side", while they are pretty much the same.
Finally, it is way too easy to say that "everybody" committed war crimes. Militias of all sects committed masscares indeed, but these militias were seldom representative of their communities. Christian phalangist militias for example took power only after they slaughtered all their enemies, the moderate christians et al... 95 % of the Lebanese did not take part in this war and did not support any militia.
Besides, being in a wartorn country does not justify war crimes. Bachir Gemayel is not accused of ordinary wartime activities, but of war crimes, which means deliberately slaughtering innocent civilians. Tall Al Zaatar Safra and Ehden massacres cannot be justified by the all too common "war time" argument.

Posted by: Jose Dagher at October 2, 2005 01:18 PM

Wow -- real heat here!

"who reject ruthless fascist militiamen."

Weak "moral" folk who reject all ruthless leaders have always, historically, lost out when forced to fight against the ruthless. Gandhi could be moral ONLY because he was fighting against a moral British empire more willing to lose than to be immoral.

Do the anti-fascists really believe Gemayel's assassination was better for Lebanon?

And, if not, how is that much different from respect FOR the fascist?

I'm pretty anti-fascist, but civil war to replace one dictator with another dictator seems like a real bad idea. [admittedly ignorant of Lebanese specifics from 20 years ago.]

In Slovakia, I've seen decent, "moral" politicians getting smeared by more nationalist ones, who then get more votes. Because they're "strong", and "for the people (his people)".

Today in Russia there's a good amount of sentiment in favor of Stalin; in China, Mao. I think most mass-murderers tried to do some good for their people. Thus, simple Politically Correct demonization of "everything" about them can even become counter-productive. The good should be separated from the bad, with the claim that the good should have been pursued without the bad.

Posted by: Tom Grey - Liberty Dad at October 2, 2005 01:57 PM

Tom Grey,

I didn't realize you were into cultural sensitivity?

Posted by: NeoDude at October 2, 2005 05:36 PM

Yeah,
Tom let's spend some time debaing some of Stalin's good qualities as well... for if simply cast him as a psyhcotic mass murderer than we are merely oversimplifying this 'complicated man'... and I fear Manson has been cast in such an oversimplified light...

And the reason Russians yearn for Stalin is the same reason Iraqis yearned for one strong man for the next - ignorance stupidity fear idolization etc... it's been going on for Milleniums....
of course Russia isn't noted for their history of Democracy either.

Posted by: Mike at October 3, 2005 12:25 AM

TOM GREY
So Tom please enlighten us as to Stalin's good qualities and his concern for 'his people'.

TONY BADRAN
Also the person that called Tony Badran a 'fascist' I think you've shown us what the real definition of a the modern day lunatic leftist fascist it. Oh and you're showing what strong intellectual abilities you possess as well.

If you've ever read the guy's blog - which of course you have not - you'd have realized that the guy is very well respected and thought of - well read and intelligent - soft spoken and fair. He is linked to and links to other moderates who all discuss the Middle East including Reason.

And Tony has been linked to by many others including Instapundit. Now is Glen Reynolds a "fascist" as well?

Now what you meant to say is that anyone who disagrees with your perspective is a defacto heretofor 'fascist' - just so we know what your guidelines are.

In that way you're not much different than the lunatic left in the US - the same left Michael and I are sick of despite still considering ourselves left of center.

Now I think you would be more at home with Juan Cole whom claims an all knowing knowledge of the Middle East and Iraq despite being embarrassed by Iraqi bloggers who exposed him and then in typical leftist fashion.... called them CIA stooges.... lol!

Mike

PS Totten have you bumped into Joumanna.... and that face not to mention body?

Posted by: Mike at October 3, 2005 12:36 AM

Mike,

Please stop obsessing about Joumanna. Thanks.

Posted by: Michael J. Totten at October 3, 2005 12:57 AM

Mike
The guys above are right
TONY BADRAN is a notorious fanatic and extremist, masquerading as a scholar.
He emanates from the Lebanese Christian extreme right wing (didn't he come here defending war criminal Bachir? ). He supports fanatical rabid zionists like Martin Kramer and people who call all arabs "cockroaches in a bottle". One does not measure fascism by links on a stupid blog.
The guy fits any definition of a modern day fascist. Today's fascists do not wear brown shirts. They spread their propaganda differently. The guy is full of hate for anything arab or muslim.

Posted by: Jay at October 3, 2005 01:25 AM

Jay,

Who does Tony support who calls Arabs "cockroaches in a bottle?" I have never read anything even remotely like that on his blog.

He does not like Hezbollah or Arab Nationalism, but that does not make him a fascist. In any case, he didn't defend Bashir Gemayel here.

Posted by: Michael J. Totten at October 3, 2005 02:48 AM

The irony of Bashir is that he is hated by Muslims, but the vast majority of his crimes were against Christians.

Palestinians see his face and think Sabra and Shatila, but Bashir was assassinated before the massacre.

Members of al Ahrar (Camille Chamoun's Tigers, which was led by Dany Chamoun) were brutally fought and defeated. The ones who survived either joined with Bashir or went home. Some of the most interesting stories you will hear from the war come from Christians from the Chouf who supported Chamoun. They were ethnically cleansed by the Druze, and then were attacked by fellow Christians.

If those who were murdered by Bashir can now hold his picture high, I do not see why he is such an evil fascist.

Bashir's brother Amin was and is a strong democrat. He's definitely not a fascist. And yet, Amin was a horrible president who prolonged the war and did little to help the Christian community.

Posted by: lebanon.profile at October 3, 2005 06:07 AM

fanatical rabid zionists like Martin Kramer??

The guy is full of hate for anything arab or muslim.

I assume I'm talking to a fan of Arabist Juan Cole, who is relentlessly criticized by both Kramer and Tony Badran. Cole and his support of the current Islamist/Ba'thist campaign of ethnic cleansing are also criticized by many in the blogospere, and even by some in the media.

Objecting to ethnic cleansing does not make someone a fascist or a "fanatical rabid zionist". There are thousands, maybe millions of people who object to the current Islamist/Ba'thist campaign of ethnic cleansing, from Lebanon to the Sudan. Are they all "fanatical rabid zionists?"

Posted by: mary at October 3, 2005 07:14 AM

FIRST MICHAEL T.
"obssess" over Joumanna....
bro I know what's really important...
and if preferring that that face over this is obsessing, than ok...

JAY ON TONY BADRAN

Mike The guys above are right
TONY BADRAN is a notorious fanatic and extremist, masquerading as a scholar.

Really? He's getting his Doctorate in Near East studies at NYU? Is that "masquerading"?
Many people think Edward Said "masqueraded" his personal prior conclusions under pseudo scholarship?
I think Mary answered you as well.
Is Juan Cole the kind of "intellectual" you consider legit?

He emanates from the Lebanese Christian extreme right wing (didn't he come here defending war criminal Bachir? ).

So is that all you got to support that pretty strong accusation?

He supports fanatical rabid zionists like Martin Kramer and people who call all arabs "cockroaches in a bottle".

Martin Kramer called Arabs cockroaches in a bottle? Did you hear that on Al Manar? I've seen Kramer speak and his biggest gripe is with guys like Cole and Pappe? I disagree with Pappe and Cole as do many on the blogsphere?

One does not measure fascism by links on a stupid blog. The guy fits any definition of a modern day fascist. Today's fascists do not wear brown shirts. They spread their propaganda differently. The guy is full of hate for anything arab or muslim.

I always thought 'fascists' would more aptly describe people who wear masks over their heads, carry kids at parades with machine guns in their hands, spread hate over the satellite, schools and in the mosque?

But maybe a guy who is respectful of intellectual discussion - well thought of by people who would be considered intellectual Arabists is a secret "zio fascist"?

So far it appears the only one spreading accusations and propaganda is you. Can you back up 1 word of any of your inflammatory rhetoric?
Please I'd like to see the cites...
Mike

Posted by: mike at October 3, 2005 08:39 AM

"debaing some of Stalin's good qualities as well."

Well, a pretty big one is that he led Russia into killing about 5 times more Nazis than the US led Western Allies.

He saved the Soviet Union from fascism a LOT better than France & England, and then the US, saved Poland from totalitarianism (including Stalin's) (recall it was to save Poland, after sacrificing Czechoslovakia, that caused France & the UK to go to war).

Why not put some effort into defining a good standard to judge a leader before demonization?

Tito in Yugoslavia was fascist, too -- but looks a lot better than democratically elected Milosovic.

One of the key points about a "strong man" is that it ends the intra-group in-fighting about who will be the main leader. So the group is better able to defend, or attack, the non-group.

Most groups appreciate a "group uniter".

After Mao as the worst, Stalin the second worst, and Hitler only third worst as far as mass murderers. Though Pol Pot's 2 million of 8 million is prolly the highest percentage murdered.

Given how terrible Stalin was, it behooves anybody traveling in Russia to try to understand why some might like him, or certain aspects of his rule. Very relevant as Putin emulates some of these "strong man" tendancies; and is popular for it.

I suggest Michael try to find out why those Christians who like Gemayel, like him. I'm very interested. I suspect there will be popular new "strong man" Christians, to counter Druze strong man Jumblatt, for instance.

Posted by: Tom Grey - Liberty Dad at October 3, 2005 09:09 AM

should be "saved the Soviet Union from NAZI fascism", where I agree Stalin was essentially a dictator as much as Hitler, or Mao.

Posted by: Tom Grey - Liberty Dad at October 3, 2005 10:04 AM

Wow, thanks guys for all the attention! Really!

I can't waste my time responding to idiots, but let me say this:

I am not nor was a I ever a fan of Bashir's. I am not nor was a I ever a Phalangist, or a fan thereof. My neighborhood was bombarded as much by Syrians, as by Muslim militias, as by Phalangists!

As for Mustapha's incredibly moronic statement about my point being a symptom of us vs. them neocon mentality... I mean what the fuck!? I know you think if you use cute cliche terms you sound smart but in reality you've just made yourself that much dumber. You think I give a rat's ass about Neocons, Bush or Sharon!? Us vs. Them?! This has nothing to with "Us" (you don't even know my sect for fuck's sake, so shut the hell up!) or "them" (who the fuck is them?!) This has to do with a chronic double standard when it comes to Lebanon and writing on Lebanon.

So all you geniuses need to take a huge chill pill and relax.

Finally, although I don't really care, but who the hell told you that I wrote for Campus Watch or any other "rag"?! I dare you to produce a single shred of evidence. If you mean that they pick up my posts from my blog and reproduce them on their site, I hate to break it to you but they do that with ANY web-based content! It's their right, and I frankly don't give a damn. They've done it with a million other site and writers.

The funny part is that THEY're supposedly the "McCarthyists" who "smear" people and use "guilt by association"! But I guess they can't beat you idiots at this game.

Posted by: Tony at October 3, 2005 10:16 AM

By the way, that's the first time I've heard that I "emanate from the Christian extreme right wing"!! It's always good to know things about yourselves from people who don't know who you are! You learn something new every day!

Posted by: Tony at October 3, 2005 10:18 AM

The silence is now deafening....
Jay you can crawl back into your hole now.

Mike

Posted by: Mike at October 3, 2005 11:43 AM

Oh come on Badran. You're such a hypocrite. People were criticizing Bachir and you came up throwing Khomeyni at their face. Like If you're not with Bachir, you must be with Khomeyni. If you're not with us you're with Bin Laden. This is typical neocon & W bullshit.

+ I don't know much about Cole and Kramer, but I know Badran associates with Pipes, and is endorsed by Pipes, who is a huge racist who once said cautioned westerners against " brown-skinned peoples cooking strange foods and maintaining different standards of hygiene..." (National Review, 11/19/90)

So as long as TONY BADRAN keeps associating with Pipes and Campus Watch, people have every right to call him a fascist and a racist.

Posted by: Mustapha at October 3, 2005 11:57 AM

Hey Mustapha,
Bring your crap my way. Tony who's Lebanese can't have him being branded a "zionist" or even defending anyone considered a "zionist" or he loses his street cred. You can be a Khomenyist, a member of Hezballah who's raped and murdered, be part of the Syrian secret police... but g-d forbid you're discovered to be a "zionist" or even find some things that a "zionist" says that makes sense.

Pipes's statement about brown skinned people was idiotic and moronic... and he's defended himself regarding that statement several times already.
Several people who support Pipes are Pakistani and Middle Eastern..

Also Campus Watch as far as I know isn't anti Islamic or Arabic? unless you can show me where it is so?

Now can you tell me if Bernard Lewis is a racist as well?

Pleasssssse enlighten me.

Mike

Posted by: Mike at October 3, 2005 12:09 PM

Also Campus Watch as far as I know isn't anti Islamic or Arabic? unless you can show me where it is so?

Now can you tell me if Bernard Lewis is a racist as well?

Pleasssssse enlighten me.

Mike

Posted by: Mike at October 3, 2005 12:09 PM

Mustapha, your earlier stupidity wasn't enough, so you had to assert it with greater force.

As Michael noted, I never defended Bashir (neither here nor on my blog nor elsewhere). Nor did I say "either or" like your incredibly stupid conclusion has it. Read again what I wrote: "I wonder if..." Again, my point was cautioning against double standards, that are rampant with Lebanon. For instance, and you and the other bozos here went a long way in demonstrating it, terms like "right wing" and "fascist" are often used when talking about Lebanon. Yet, they almost invariably (forget almost) refer to either "Maronites," "Christians" or "Phalangists." But "right wing" and "fascist" apply marvelously well to Khomeinism.

Now somehow in your unspeakable genius, you made it out that 1) I'm defending Bashir, and 2) that I'm saying that if you don't defend Bashir, you're a Khomeinist! Brilliant! That's why you're such a smart guy with top notch logical skills.

You then insist on putting these supreme skills on display with your other remarkably bright remarks on how I "associate" myself with Pipes, and then how (through explicit endorsement of "guilt by association" -- even though you didn't and can't produce a single shred of evidence of even that mere association) that entitled you to call me a racist and a fascist! You have just managed to show yourself to be one incredibly stupid guy, and one who is worse than the ideological enemies that you flash around and accuse of "McCarthyism" and so on. In other words, you're sub-zero intellectually, and I'm giving you more attention that you ever deserve by actually pointing out your stupidity to you in the hope that you manage to actually see it. But given how you repeated your stupidity verbatim, I sense that this is quite the lost cause. Not that you care, nor do I care either!

Now go back to your bozo friends and talk about how I'd sell my mother and father to please tha Jooz, and then have the balls to call me a hater and a racist.

Posted by: Tony at October 3, 2005 12:17 PM

For a brief moment I thought it was refreshing to have Lebanese readers slugging it out in my comments instead of Americans slugging it out. I now see that this is not an improvement.

Please, people. Try to be reasonable! I'd rather not have to brace myself for a shitstorm every time I open my comments. Thanks.

Posted by: Michael J. Totten at October 3, 2005 12:26 PM

My apologies Michael, but those were quite the ad hominem attacks on my person and my family as well. But I've said what I had to say. I'm out.

Posted by: Tony at October 3, 2005 12:32 PM

Ya know,
reading Mustapha and his gang you could swear they were reading verbatim from Cole's weblog?
LOL....
Those dam Joooooz.... even when they're not involved they're involved... eh Mustapha?
Oh my bad, I meant "zionists"....
Fascist??? lmao!!

Mike

Posted by: Mike at October 3, 2005 12:35 PM

Daniel Pipes made hundreds of racist comments, not one. Check the web. If you don't see any problem with flaunting his endorsement, you are a RACIST just like him. You're a typical Lebanese Christian fascist being manipulated by pro-Israelis and thinking he's smart. I guess your hero is Walid Phares.

And yes, a Lebanese who deals with a notorious racist like Pipes is actually selling his father and mother. At least Walid Phares gets paid. You only get their contempt.

The LF also used to be so proud when they were endorsed by Sharon and Begin. You have no pride Toni Badran, people like you have no honor, no dignity whatsoever.

You'll end up a frustrated idiot teaching in some third rate college among rednecks, and you'll compensate for your inferiority complex trashing successful academics on Campus Watch.

Now, go give Pipes his daily blow job, you bonehead.

Posted by: Mustapha at October 3, 2005 12:37 PM

Daniel Pipes made hundreds of racist comments, not one. Check the web. If you don't see any problem with flaunting his endorsement, you are a RACIST just like him.

Again, your genius is astounding. You've managed to add dishonesty to it too.

I guess you mistake that for cleverness, but it's quite infantile really. I didn't say you can't produce evidence of statements by PIPES. I said you can't (and you haven't, and you won't, because you can't) produce evidence that I (moi) worked for Campus Watch.

But let me add to that list. I dare you to produce evidence of hateful speech against Muslims anywhere on my blog. You're lucky we're not in the UK.

Finally, again, a tribute to your genius, I dare you to produce a single evidence of me "flaunting Pipes' endorsement of me" (and please find me that alleged Pipes endorsement, as I seem to have missed it. Pssst. Here's a hint: it doesn't exist.)

So, nice try buddy boy, but no cigar (and no phallic innuendo was intended despite your crude remark at the end, which is nothing but more evidence of your intellectual bankruptcy and the frustration of having been humiliated in public. Maybe now you'll think twice before slandering someone.)

Now I'm out for real.

Posted by: Tony at October 3, 2005 12:44 PM

One last thing. I find it incredibly suitable that after your attack on Pipes and the "brown-skinned peoples" comment you finished with a remark on "rednecks"! And I'M the racist?!

Again, because your intellect is so above and beyond, you actually were stupid enough to think that was a clever attack on me!

Posted by: Tony at October 3, 2005 12:48 PM

Mustapha

Daniel Pipes made hundreds of racist comments, not one. Check the web.

Please can you give the links. Not that I'm a big Pipes fan I'd just like to know for my own information. I also doubt you have a clue what you're talking about as does everyone else here at this point.

If you don't see any problem with flaunting his endorsement, you are a RACIST just like him.

OK not even 1 sentence down.......

You're a typical Lebanese Christian fascist being manipulated by pro-Israelis and thinking he's smart. I guess your hero is Walid Phares.

I guess Tony had you nailed and not vica versa...
It didn't take more than a minute for you to reveal your own prejudice.

And yes, a Lebanese who deals with a notorious racist like Pipes is actually selling his father and mother.

Yes of coure... better for him if he deals with
Assad or Hezballah for some cash. Anything but a Joooo.

You'll end up a frustrated idiot teaching in some third rate college among rednecks, and you'll compensate for your inferiority complex trashing successful academics on Campus Watch.

This guy was actually trying to call someone else a racist a second ago??? Why is it that people who use the word fascist or racist always end out being the biggest racists and fascists?

Now, go give Pipes his daily blow job, you bonehead.

Just in case there was anyone who might have been confused that you did have a few brain cells.... you cleared that up for them.

Posted by: Mike Nargizian at October 3, 2005 12:57 PM

Pipes is sad that you're trying to distance yourself from him. I mailed him your comments above. He says you're fucking ungrateful. He said Ziad Abdel Nour checked you up and already told him you're untrustworthy. He regrets endorsing your stupid blog.
You gonna have to find another patron to suck up to. May I suggest Tom Delay, the ethical "Christian Zionist" ? Even De Lay is more honest and less bigoted than you are.

Posted by: Mustapha at October 3, 2005 12:58 PM

Mustapha, how old are you? I haven't heard an argument like yours since the third grade.

However, you do spell very well for someone your age.

Posted by: mary at October 3, 2005 02:22 PM

Mustapha
You're right about Pipes. He is the scum of the earth. And don't bother to respond to these Mike and Mary quacks. I checked their websites, and they are also extreme zionists and thinly veiled racists. Mike is a pompous ass who also writes on the infamous Campus Watch. There seems to be some sort of Islamophobic International, or at least solidarity amongst racist zionist bloggers.
As for the Badran moron, anyone can have a look at his blog and realize what a shmuck and a fascist he is. He's gonna end up like Joe Mc Carthy.
Forget about them. They're not worth your attention. The Iraqi debacle exposed these neocon idiots and they became the laughing stock of the entire world.

Posted by: Jay at October 3, 2005 04:27 PM

Jay you and Mustapha look like 4th grade morons.
So you're not even worth the waste of breath. Go back to mommy's little basement.

And if you can show me where I've written for Campus Watch I'd be interested to see it... so please send that link... if not go back to your fantasies of having a life.

Posted by: Mike Nargizian at October 3, 2005 05:13 PM

You want the link, here's the link to one of your sleazy demagogic unsubstantiated "articles"
http://www.danielpipes.org/comments/485
Now of course, a stupid sophist like you will say it's danielpipes.org, which of course is ideologically at odds with Campus Watch. yeah right
Just assume what you are : A NECON RACIST ZIONIST SCUMBAG
PS. You are a disgrace to the Armenian community, of which my mother is a proud member.
Armenians didn't go through genocide to have neo fascists like you justify another genocide against Palestinians.

Posted by: Jay at October 3, 2005 05:49 PM

Thanks Jay
by the way, in the pathetic colionialist minded Campus Watch article you linked to, the Armenian fellow quotes Fuad Ajami, the brilliant "expert" who "predicted" that the US would get a hero's welcome in Iraq (lol).
These guys don't realize how ridiculous they are.
Except for GOP rednecks and likudniks racists, the whole world indeed is laughing at them.

Posted by: Mustapha at October 3, 2005 06:34 PM

Michael,
Could you show these 2 clowns the door?
There's plently of places for them to spread their innuendo and racist overtones.
Thanks... :-)

Posted by: Mike at October 3, 2005 07:23 PM

Michael,
Could you show these 2 clowns the door?
Besides being infants there's plenty of places for them to live amidst and spread their racist innuendo and conspiracies.
Thanks... :-)

Posted by: Mike at October 3, 2005 07:24 PM

WHat is this, a manifestation of the flypaper theory? I guess if all the nuts in the world are here, they won't be causing problems on other blogs.

Posted by: exhelodrvr at October 3, 2005 09:30 PM

Mustapha and Jay,

KNOCK IT OFF. You two are both acting like jerks, slinging bilious insults around like teenagers. If you want to continue this nasty little hate campaign of yours, take it off site.

Posted by: Michael J. Totten at October 3, 2005 09:48 PM

Well, I think this debate is illustrative of the widening gap between the US and the rest of the world. Mustapha et al, you have to realize that America has been taken over by the lunatic fringes, and the lunatics are also righteous. They feel offended when people say they are racists and yet thet have no problem associating with openly racists fellows like Pipes and spreading cliches about an entire culture like Islamic culture. They are condescending toward the entire world and want to discipline rogue states like some on this blog want to discipline you. But on the core issue, you might speak too vehemently but you're 100% right. In Europe or elsewhere, anybody would agree that Pipes is a racist, but the lunatic fringes in the US (Christian fundamentalists, extremist zionists and bushies ) basically think Palestinians and Arabs are subhumans so they don't even realize they are resorting to special stereotype. They hide their racism behind political terminology and a so called war on terror.
So watch your language guys, because you have the moral high ground. Americans see the obscenities in porn and in a few ungraceful words but they fail to see the obscenity of their country's foreign policy, which you are justly angry at.

Posted by: CJ at October 4, 2005 03:17 AM

They feel offended when people say they are racists and yet thet have no problem associating with openly racists fellows like Pipes and spreading cliches about an entire culture like Islamic culture.They feel offended when people say they are racists and yet thet have no problem associating with openly racists fellows like Pipes and spreading cliches about an entire culture like Islamic culture.

CJ - Speaking of racism, why don't you tell us about your love for other cultures. What do you love most about the Kurds? What do you love most about Judaism? Why do African blacks and Christians have a culture that is equal and as worthy of preservation as Arab or European culture? Tell us why you think all men should be brothers, choosing their own language, their own leaders and above all, their own religion.

Why are the Kurds so angry about the Arab/Islamist campaign of ethnic cleansing? Why do they say things like this?

The president of WKI, Dr. Najmadin Karim, stressed in his opening remarks, that the origins of the Iraqi policies of ethnic cleansing and Arabization of Kurdistan region as a state policy to secure valuable economic resources and racist design, go way back to the mid 1930s’ when the Prime Minister Yassin Hashimi, supported by the pro-nazi King Ghazi bin Faisal, initiated the first Arabization project by inducing the resettlement of members of Al Obeidi Arab tribe, from the south to Kirkuk region in Iraqi Kurdistan. The Baath regime has intensified this racist campaign since 1963 with tragic consequences for the victim families. Thousands of families have been expelled from their indigenous homes and replaced with Arab settlers brought in from the south of Iraq. Areas of Kirkuk, Khanaqin, Tuz Khurmatu, Sinjar, Sheikhan and Makmour have specifically been targeted. The victims included Kurds, Turkomen, Assyrians and Caldeans. Genocidal acts – Anfal, Halabja, and the systematic draining of the Marshes, the habitat of an ancient Arab civilization - have been the brutal manifestations of the Iraqi state policies.

If Americans are the only source of racism, and if the rest of the world is filled with pure-hearted lovers of equality, then how do you explain this? How do you explain the presence of Nazism, Marxism and Islamism in Europe?

It really is kind of complicated, isn't it?

Posted by: mary at October 4, 2005 06:15 AM

CJ,
You've got your memorized cant so engrained in your brainwashed little brain that you couldn't be woken up from your zombie like tunnel vision if you were looking in the face at the truth.
So there's no point in even talking to you.
So again why don't you mosey over to a site where you can cohabitate with others who you can comiserate with and compete for who's got the best memorized tract. I can tell you more than a few available to you.
Happy trails.
Mike

Posted by: Mike Nargizian at October 4, 2005 10:14 AM

CJ,

You idiot. If I thought Arabs were subhuman, why on Earth would I move to an Arab country and expect to enjoy it? How and why would I have Arab and Muslim friends?

Grow up.

If you imply that I'm a racist one more time you're out of here. It is absolutely unacceptable behavior.

Posted by: Michael J. Totten at October 4, 2005 01:03 PM

A little late to comment on this. Mustafa, although I am violating the rules of netetiquette, I must agree with Tony, you're an idiot (don't get me wrong, it's a description, I am not trying to insult you).

Anyway, do some fact-checking next time instead of throwing unproven allegations.

Posted by: Vox P. at October 4, 2005 02:53 PM

Mike, get a life and an education. I don't know about Lebanon, I don't know who amongst the leb bloggers is fascist and who is not, but what the guys said about the stupidity of the neocons is the pure unadulterated truth. Wake up and smell the coffee. It's about time.
I sometimes wonder on what planet do people like you live.

Posted by: Matthew at October 4, 2005 04:26 PM

Matt,

Assuming your not Jay or CJ.... so basically you don't know anything about anything but thought you'd just add your 1 cents anyway....

You don't know about Lebanon nor have much interst in it apparently?
However, you wanted to say something in a thread and weblog about Lebanon?

Your life is apparently that boring?

Maybe it's time for a friend or perhaps a dog or hobby?

However, if you want to know where the so-called 'neocons' live.

I heard they rented out a secret bat cave with the lizards who already flew down to take over the New World Order?

They were temporarily hiding in Mustapha and Jay's mommy's basement but found better accomodations.

You can in the meantime find some weblogs that do support the Iraqi intervention and W Bush. He did get tens of millions of votes. Some such sites are linked to at this site. Reason magazine is a great libertarian site with intelligent articles and diverse commentary from both sides. However, there's typically intelligent people commenting so like Jay it may be better to leave your intelligence a mystery and not a certainty if you know what I mean.

While there you can show off your impressive prose and outstanding command of facts and information.

Best Regards though :-0)
Mike

Posted by: Mike at October 4, 2005 08:48 PM

I just read this at Nadz who is an anti-Jihadist Arab blogger. Besides being incredibly witty and funny - like when he classifies the genres of anti-war protestors.... this entry is right on.....
http://nadz101.blogspot.com/2005/10/bits-n-pieces.html
Here is Big Pharaoh's great letter on the hypocrisy of his own world.
http://bigpharaoh.blogspot.com/2005/10/memo-to-arabislamic-media-religious.html

Mike

Posted by: Mike Nargizian at October 4, 2005 09:23 PM

Mike
You are a nightmarish product of our floundering American educational system.
Go look for WMD's in Bagadad, if you think you're so smart.

Posted by: Matthew at October 4, 2005 10:01 PM

Go find a hobby or an imaginary straw man your quite boring which may explain a lot.

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Posted by: online casinos at October 9, 2005 08:34 AM

Bachir Gemayel was the soul of Lebanon. Do not desecrate the likes of John F Kennedy unless you are looking to make some quick enemies in a land 6000 years old. The lebanese have persevered a lot longer than history can stomach. The term Lebanon was used by the phoenicians circa 3000BC.

Bachir, if you had the luck to encounter, could shake your very foundations with his energy. He was a moral man living in immoral times and he managed to inspire generations with one number "10452km2" . That is the size of Lebanon and that is a mental representation of what the christians believed and many others of the varied sects and religions in Lebanon. Your portrayal of him however short and vague is slanted and misinformed.

no this is not denmark,

It is Lebanon and you better respect its martyrs.

" We are the demons and the angels of this middle east, we are its light and its fire.We are its cross and its crescent. Able to burn it if burnt by others or to illuminate it if left to our desires". Bachir Gemayel

Posted by: lebanonjon at October 10, 2005 10:03 AM

Here's a little poem for the moment

I'm Lebanese
You're right
He was an asshole
But this stupid damn people will never get over him.

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