Michael J. Totten: The Hitch Vs. Gruesome George

September 14, 2005

The Hitch Vs. Gruesome George

Christopher Hitchens is debating George Galloway in New York tonight, and oh how I wish I could be there. The brawl will be aired live, though, right here according to Hitchens. What might we expect from this affair? Something like this:

My old friend and frequent critic Geoffrey Wheatcroft once tried to define a moment of perfect contentment and came up with the idea of opening a vintage wine while settling down to read an undiscovered work by P.G. Wodehouse. Another comrade identified bliss with writing or reading very hard in the afternoon, knowing that someone really, really nice was coming to dinner. I, too, have a taste for the simpler pleasures. Can I convey the deep sense of delight that stole over me when I learned that George Galloway and Jane Fonda were to go on an "anti-war" tour together and that the idea of this perfect partnership had come from Eve Ensler, author of The Vagina Monologues?
The pure silliness and risibility of the thing would have been quite beyond one's power of invention. And, oh, just to be present when they finally meet. Jane can shyly tell George, who yells daily about the rape of Jerusalem by Zionism, of the brave days in 1982 when she and Tom Hayden went to entertain Gen. Sharon's invading troops in Lebanon. He can huskily and modestly discuss (he says he's a great admirer of her role in Barefoot in the Park) his long record as one of Britain's leading pro-life politicians, and his more recent outrage at the judicial "murder" of Terri Schiavo.

Jane Fonda, who the last I heard was in the throes of a post-orgasmic spiritual transfiguration, was a byword for ditziness even on the left when I was young, and she now issues apologies for her past politics almost as rapidly as Barbarella changed positions. Galloway, however, is nothing if not grimly consistent.
Here, just for an example, is what he said as recently as July, after speaking at the Al-Assad Library in the Syrian capital of Damascus, about the host after whose foul dynasty that library is named:
We covered the whole world in 60 minutes. I was very impressed by his knowledge, by his sharpness, by his flexible mind. I was very, very impressed. … Syria is lucky to have Bashar al-Assad as her President.
[…]
Thus, and thanks in part to Eve and Jane, the "anti-war" movement has as its new star a man who is openly pro-war, but openly on the other side. A man who supported the previous oppressors of the region—the Soviet army in Afghanistan and Saddam Hussein in Iraq—who supports its current oppressors—Bashar Assad and his Lebanese proxies—and who still has time to endorse its potential future tyrants in the shape of the jihadists in Iraq and elsewhere. Galloway began his political life as a fifth-rate apologist for the Soviet Union, but he has now diversified into being an apologist for Stalinism, for fascism, and for jihadism all at once! All this, and Jane, too. One's cup runs over.

The debate is tonight at 7:00 EST.

Posted by Michael J. Totten at September 14, 2005 01:40 AM

Comments

I think this is one of those cases where 'debating' should be in air quotes. More like Hitchens wiping the floor with Galloway.

Posted by: Court at September 14, 2005 06:58 AM

The good news for those who can't be at the debate: You can go to your local zoo and watch the monkeys fling feces at each other.

Should be equally enlightening.

Posted by: Swopa at September 14, 2005 07:50 AM

It is always interesting when two people taking opposite sides of the political spectrum can both manage to be wrong on about every particular. If you actually care about Iraqis and Iraq, you can get far more enlightenment by spending about 20 minutes with Anthony Shadid's new book than by listening to two intoxicated blowhards scramble to retroactively justify their untenable positions. Although I agree the entertainment value should be high.

Posted by: Vanya at September 14, 2005 08:21 AM

Is CSPAN covering it? I'll be on a plane tonight when this happens...

Posted by: Bill at September 14, 2005 08:36 AM

What is the point of this "debate"? Is it left versus right? Pro WOT vs Anti WOT? And if so, I doubt Galloway is the best one for that (frankly, nearly anyone with a brain would be a better choice, not one with so much baggage. Why not Ward Churchill?). This "debate" is more like one shit-filled gas bag bouncing off another. Galloway, repellent as he is, is very articulate and the points he will make can be made by anyone without dragging in his love of Saddam.

Posted by: Seymour Paine at September 14, 2005 10:00 AM

I doubt Galloway is the best one for that (frankly, nearly anyone with a brain would be a better choice, not one with so much baggage. Why not Ward Churchill?

Does Ward Churchill have a brain? His students don't think so.

I don't think a debate between Hitchens and faux Indian "Chief Big Ego Little Brain" would be very entertaining or enlightening. Galloway may be a foul, amoral Hitler wannabe with the requisite moustache, but at least he's capable of stringing a sentence together.

I'll be attending and leafletting the event. (leaflets thanks to Gene of Harry's Place) Can't wait.

Posted by: mary at September 14, 2005 10:30 AM

Mary,

Can you post a copy of that leaflet somewhere?

Posted by: Michael J. Totten at September 14, 2005 10:36 AM

Excuse me, but Hitchens couldn't even win a debate against comedian Jon Stewart. Stewart "wiped the floor" with him and exposed him as the bloviating fool that he has (sadly) become.

I used to really respect Hitchens, but he has a big problem...he was duped into believeing in and defending the legitimacy of the Iraq War. As a result, his excuses are only as good as the lies they are built on.

Posted by: steven at September 14, 2005 10:41 AM

I'm going to try to check it out. But a more meaningful debate would be between Hitchens and a former war supporter like George Packer. (Packer's book in Iraq is scheduled to be published in early October. I hope you have a chance to pick it up and check it out while you're over there, Michael. It sounds like it'll be quite interesting.)

Posted by: Markus at September 14, 2005 12:56 PM

"but Hitchens couldn't even win a debate against comedian Jon Stewart"

Well, that's because Jon isn't a political hack. He appears to understand that both parties are completely (fornicated under carnal knowledge) and the MSM is too busy making money by televising the two major parties and their regular sodomizing of one another to actually provide Americans with a good picture of their hosed policital system.

Hitchens makes a nice conversationalist, but I'm not too sure that his err, debating skills are really all that fantastic. His writing skills are excellent, his personality seems magnetic, and his debating skills appear somewhere above either of the presidential contenders from '04... but that's not saying much.

Posted by: Ratatosk, Squirrel of Discord at September 14, 2005 01:43 PM

I'm sure Hitchens will acquit himself just fine, though the daily news gives Galloway extra ammunition and talking points: today, another 160 Iraqis for whom continued rule by Saddam would certainly not have been WORSE than life in "liberated Iraq."

Posted by: Markus at September 14, 2005 02:42 PM

Hitchens is a fanstastic writer, but only a better than average debater/speaker (though I doubt Jon Stewart did to him what someone said he did).

I heard Galloway interviewed on NPR a few months ago and I must admit the guy aquitted himself superbly under pointed questioning.

Should be a good match.

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I'm Tunisian , I live in the USA in Chicago. I accidently saw your website and your vacation pictures in Tunisia, I felt so happy reading your adventure and the truth about my poeple and my country in your comments,(it is very hard to find an american how visit TUNISIA and come back with a beautiful pictures and stories like yours).
Thank you again, and you are welcome any time, you and your wife,you want to visit Tunisia again I will be happy to informe you about a new places to visit and maybe I will guide you there, and from today you have a new freind from tunisia .

thank you

Posted by: souhaieb at September 14, 2005 03:47 PM

Carlos: I heard Galloway interviewed on NPR a few months ago and I must admit the guy aquitted himself superbly under pointed questioning.

Holy crap. Carlos complementing Galloway is one of the signs of the coming end of the world, isn't it? I better take a look at Revelations. Flip flip. Hmm, locusts, dogs sleeping with cats, a rain of boiling blood falling from the sky, plagues of toads, and Carlos complementing a leftist. Yup.

Let the looting begin.

Posted by: double-plus-ungood at September 14, 2005 04:25 PM

yeah, stewart didn't wipe the floor with hitchens. Hitchens couldn't get in a word edge-wise, if you can believe. Stewart turned the conversation into ripping on Bush the whole time, and hammed it up for the crowd who, of course, ate it up like candy.

Posted by: knayte at September 14, 2005 04:29 PM

Hitchens whole shtick is verbal fury. It sometimes works in writing or a monologue, but it's too easy to sidetrack him in debates/dialogue.
I didn't see him and Stewart, but I can easily see him running rings around Hitchens.

Posted by: Michael Farris at September 14, 2005 10:26 PM

I agree with Markus- why can't Hitchens debate someone like George Packer? I'm bewildered that anyone wants to hear Galloway at all, much less in a "debate" with the egotistical blowhard Hitchens.

Posted by: Matt at September 15, 2005 01:10 AM

I have to admit as a fan, Hitchens was off his game on "The Daily Show", and honest to god, I wish he'd stop citing Saddam's patronage of Abu Nidal anytime the subject of Iraq and terrorism comes up. (As Stewart trenchantly asks, "Isn't that a different type of terrorist?")

Hitchens need to hone his kung fu on this point, for example:

"Removing Saddam's regime and fostering a democratic Iraq was a necessary response to the terrorist attacks of 9/11 for three reasons:

"Number one, doing so was the only means to eliminate without appearance of appeasement the main Muslim grievances that Bin Laden exploited to galvanize popular support and lure new recruits: housing of 'infidel' US troops in Saudi Arabia, the suffering of Iraqis under the UN sanction program, and the treatment of Palestinians by Israel. (And no one disputes Saddam's largesse upon the Hamas terror regimen, which had made peace between Israel and Palestine nigh impossible.)

"Number two, doing so was the only means by which to weaken and undermine Bin Laden's chief allies in the region: to wit, the Saudis, in their promulgation of Wahhabism throughout the world, and in their numerous royal family members who directly bankroll Al Qaeda. Both of which are made possible by Saudi control of the Middle East oil oligopoly-- and which an Iraq at maximum oil production capacity would eventually undercut.

"Number three, doing so was the most effective way of fully allying ourselves with Al Qaeda's mortal enemies-- moderate and democratic Muslims, including Shiites, hated and feared both by Al Qaeda and their Saudi patrons, and whose success and freedom would be a devastating, irrecoverable loss for them.

"So: refute Bin Laden's propoganda, weaken his allies, support his enemies, all in a single blow which happens also to strike one more fascist genocidal regime off the ledger of human suffering-- what, John Stewart, is so difficult here to understand?"

I can say all that in under a minute, why can't he?

Posted by: WJA at September 15, 2005 03:24 AM

Matt,

if Jon Stewart was "running rings" around Hitchens it probably means he was responding to serious points by Hitchen with a classic Stewart smart ass vacuous cracks and getting cheers from the peanut gallery. If it's his show with his audience, that's going to happen. It really does depend on what your definition of winning is.

Posted by: Carlos at September 15, 2005 06:57 AM

Michael Farris, I mean, above.

Posted by: Carlos at September 15, 2005 06:58 AM

Carlos, the few times I've seen Hitchens in a debate like situation (warning: last time was in the 90's), I wasn't impressed. Slow and garbled, he was deprived of his greatest skill - pure inventive invective unhindered by having to listen to people (this was when I liked him more and agreed with the point he was trying to make). It's just not his format. He's also hindered by his self-professed devotion to ideology.

Stevens, by way of contrast, has a background in repartee-interviewing (and maybe improv?) is used to thinking on his feet while dealing with people and sussing out their foibles. He's also well practiced in skewering any particular viewpoint.

Serious or right or wrong has little to do with it. Hitchens trying to verbally outmaneuver(sp?) Stevens is a doomed enterprise.

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