May 24, 2005
Soft Bigotry
Christopher Hitchens isn’t very impressed with an op-ed piece in the Wall Street Journal’s Opinion Journal over the weekend.
That great religion expert Kenneth Woodward, who used to write with extreme lenience on such subjects as miracles (for Newsweek, as it happens), has now written a solemn article for the Wall Street Journal saying that Muslims revere the Quran, or "recitation," much, much more than Christians revere the Bible. The Bible is only a first draft of God's will, set down by mere mortals, whereas the Quran is the unmediated word of God himself. No wonder, then, that pious Muslims will hear of a Newsweek capsule story, assume it to be infallible, and immediately begin to kill and burn. What could be more understandable?No kidding. That’s exactly what Mr. Woodward does in his piece. He indulges the thugs.Well, first, most Muslims did not do any such thing, and those who did should not be indulged in the Wall Street Journal.
Three-and-a-half years after 9/11, you would think that we Americans would get it: Muslims take their religion very, very seriously. Now 17 people are dead, Afghanistan is on edge, and there are protests in Pakistan, our most vulnerable and valuable ally among Muslim states--in part, it seems, because of six words in a brief item in Newsweek magazine.
See where he places the blame? The blame is on us. Those who actually killed 17 people are given a pass. Why? Because they’re Muslims. Apparently, in Mr. Woodward’s universe, that’s how Muslims behave - and that behavior is not going to change. This is what we Americans are going to have to “get.”
Well, I call bullshit on Woodward. Those people didn’t riot because they’re Muslims. (How many riots were there in Tunis, Istanbul, Beirut, and Casablanca? Zero, as far as I know.) They rioted because they’re intolerant xenophobic ignorant bumpkins.
Hitchens is right when he later implies that if a mob of their Christian equivalents were to go on a murderous rampage over “Piss Christ” (or whatever else) the Wall Street Journal would never excuse them by saying “The Christians do love their Jesus.” If the Journal were to write such a thing, Christians would have every right to be just offended all over again. Hundreds of millions of people can’t be fairly defined by the behavior of a violent fanatical fringe.
Woodward and his ilk are trying to be nice to Muslims when they make these kinds of excuses. But their view of the people of Islam is no more “enlightened” than what I hear on the radio from vituperative hate-mongers like Michael Savage. Moderate Muslims don’t count or sometimes even exist in their view. Only the nutters do.
Posted by Michael J. Totten at May 24, 2005 06:41 PMSteyn blames cricket. Ok, ok, Steyn is a journalist. Anybody in a position comment on the facts? I would love to know how much he is to be trusted, because he has always got interesting stuff.
Posted by: chuck at May 24, 2005 06:55 PMIt's racism, no other word for it.
Posted by: Todd Grimson at May 24, 2005 07:04 PMI don't know how to think about Islam, at least in that part of the world. My Armenian Christian relatives in Baghdad rarely have a kind word for the Arabs. I am sure there are people of goodwill and liberality over there. But they don't seem to be able to, or have a desire to, rid the Muslim world of the very large violent element. Compare how we treated McVeigh. We hunted him, found him, tried him, convicted him, and to general acclaim, executed him. It was a way of saying "He doesn't represent us, tha is not who we are." To some degree that element seems to be missing in the Arab-Muslim world. From the Saudi's letting girls burn becaus they were improperly dressed to honor killings to suicide bombings etc, it seems in that part of the world, disproportionate responses are tolerated, if not the norm. Where are the mass of liberal/moderate/reasonable Muslims and why don't they act?
And yes, 8 million Iraqi's, the leaders of the Cedar Revolution and others get a pass. But where are the rest? And what are we to think if they remain passive and silent in the face of lunacy?
Posted by: spc67 at May 24, 2005 07:53 PMIn (usually commendable) efforts to see other perspectives and understand other cultures, many people have problems calling a mob a mob, if it happens to speak another language or maybe have another skin tone.
Having said that: There IS a difference between being the top dog and being the underdog. The fact remains that the U.S. invaded a large Muslim country and destroyed its existing authority structure (which is completely different from f.ex. WWII, when the U.S. helped driving a foreign invader out of France and RESTORING its former authority structure). The U.S. still holds Iraq at gunpoint - for its own protection, no doubt, but anyone being at the wrong end of a gun (which many throughout the whole Muslim region feel they are at present) becomes VERY wary of the intentions of the guy at the other end.
Love,
Trixie
"Never wear lower heels, longer skirt, or less of a smile than you can afford."
Wasn't the actual killing
done by Afghan security
forces?
"Intolerant, xenaphobic, ignorant bumpkins"...
Nice. Very nice.
Posted by: Grant McEntire at May 24, 2005 08:26 PMExcellent column. I would like to point out one mistake, though. The technical term is to "call shenanigans" not "call bullshit."
Posted by: exhelodrvr at May 24, 2005 09:11 PMBut their view of the people of Islam is no more “enlightened” than what I hear on the radio from vituperative hate-mongers like Michael Savage.
I wouldn't endorse Michael Savage's view of muslims, but I certainly would his view of their dhimmi apologists here in the West like Kenneth Woodward.
Posted by: spaniard at May 24, 2005 10:13 PMCome to think of it, I've never heard Michael Savage say anything terribly unfair about muslims. In fact, I've heard him carry on quite civilly with the occassional non-thug muslim caller. But when he rails about islamofascists and their western apologists (see Kenneth Woodward), the Left tars and feathers him, and it becomes fact.
Posted by: spaniard at May 24, 2005 10:26 PMAs an American living and working in Indonesia I work with moderate Muslims all day every day. Basically they can't stand the crazies and always apologize when other Muslims cause problems. I try to say the same thing you do Michael. They don't need to apologize for them, it's individual people who act this way not Muslims.
Posted by: Jace at May 25, 2005 03:09 AMWasn't the actual killing
done by Afghan security
forces?
That's the question I'm hearing almost no one asked- were the deaths rioters killed by other rioters, innocent bystanders killed by rioters, or rioters killed by police/government forces? This question is pretty significant, and I still haven't heard it answered to anyone's satisfaction.
Posted by: Steve at May 25, 2005 05:45 AMjace,
Christians worldwide wouldn't stand by silently as muslims do, even if we didn't "need" to apologize for anything.
Yet muslims appear to be very passive when it's convenient for them to be so, and very pro-active as well. For instance, worldwide Muslim displeasure with Israel is apparent. But their displeasure with muslim terrorists is far less so. I guess because they don't "need" to apologize for anything.
Posted by: spaniard at May 25, 2005 06:33 AMwhereas the Quran is the unmediated word of God himself
*************************************************
That sounds good, doesn't happen to be true though
http://www.unesco.org/webworld/mdm/1997/eng/uzbekistan/uzbekistan.html
History: The Koran, revealed by Allah to prophet Muhammad, was committed to memory by the early Muslims and recorded by scribes on various materials such as scraps of wood or camel bones. After the death of Muhammad, the first Khalif Abu Bakr (632-34) had all known suras recorded in writing by scribes such as the calligrapher Zayd bin Thabit, secretary of Prophet Muhammad. Later, the third Khalif Othman (644-56) ordered the suras (verses) to be gathered into a book with the help of the four best Koranic scholars of the time. The definitive version of the Koran prepared in Medinah in 651, known as the Mushaf of Othman, was declared as a standard, superseding all other versions.
*************************************************
Wow the "authorised" Quran was compiled by committee and all other versions suppressed and/or destroyed.
Fancy that.
Posted by: Dan Kauffman at May 25, 2005 06:38 AMThe fact remains that the U.S. invaded a large Muslim country and destroyed its existing authority structure (which is completely different from f.ex. WWII, when the U.S. helped driving a foreign invader out of France and RESTORING its former authority structure)
**************************************************
More revisionist History, comforting to some I guess they should tell it to this guy
**************************************************
http://www.eriksvane.com/betrayal.htm
How the "Peace Camp" Betrayed
My Country — Iraq
Before the last war, we Iraqis spent decades cut off from the outside world
writes Naseer Flayih Hasan
Not only did the Baathist regime prevent us from traveling during the Iran-Iraq conflict and the period of the sanctions, but they punished anyone possessing satellite television. And of course, internet access was strictly limited. Because of our isolation, most of us had little idea or sense about life beyond our borders.
We did believe, however, that democracy and human rights were important factors in Western civilization. So it came as a shock to us when millions of people began demonstrating across the
world against America’s build-up to the invasion of our country . We supposed the protests were by people who had no idea about the terrible atrocities that the regime had inflicted upon us for decades . We assumed that once they learned what had happened in Iraq , they would change their minds, or modify their opposition to the war.
My first clue that this would not happen was a few weeks after Baghdad fell. I had befriended a French reporter who had begun to realize that the situation in Iraq was not how the international media or the so-called “peace camp” described it I noticed, however, that whenever he tried to voice his doubts to colleagues, they argued that he was wrong. Soon afterwards, I met a Dutch woman on Mutinabi Street, where booksellers lay out their wares on Friday morning. I asked her how long she’d been in Iraq and, through a translator, she answered, “Three months.”
“So you were here during the war?”
“Yes!” she said. “To see the crimes of the Americans!”
I was stunned. After a moment, I replied, “What about the crimes of the regime? It killed millions of Iraqis Do you know that if the regime was still in power, the conversation we’re having now would result in our torture or death?”
Her face turned red and she angrily responded, “Soon will come the day that the Americans will do worse.” She then went on to accuse me of not knowing what the true facts were in Iraq-and that she could see the situation better than me!
It’s worth noting, as well, that the general attitude of peace activists I met was tension and anger. They were impossible to reason with. This was because, on one hand, the sometimes considerable risks they took to oppose the war made them unable to accept the fact that their cause was not as noble as they believed. Then, too, their dogmatic anti-American attitudes naturally drew them to guides, translators, drivers and Iraqi acquaintances who were themselves supporters of the regime These Iraqis, in turn, affected the peace activists until they came to share almost the same judgments and opinions as the terrorists and defenders of Saddam
This was very disappointing for someone like me, who thought for decades that the Left was generally the progressive power in the world. You can imagine how aghast I was when my French reporter friend told me that the Communist Party in his country actually considers the “insurgents” to be the equivalent of the French Gaullists! Or how troubling it is to hear Jacques Chirac take satisfaction from the violence wreaked by the terrorists—those bloody monsters that we Iraqis know so well—because they justify France’s original opposition to the war.
And so I have become disillusioned, at least with the Leftists I met in Iraq. So noble in their rhetoric, they looked to the stars, yet ignored what was happening around them, caring only about what was inside their minds. So glorious in their ideals, their thoughts were inflexible and their deeds unnecessary, even harmful. In the end, they proved to me how dogma and fanaticism had transform peace activists into—lifeless peace “statues.”
What I can't stand is that Westerners love to prop up these thugs, as if they represent us.
I have to turn red in the face for Germans and American leftists to stop telling me about the wonders of Hezbollah.
When something goes wrong, the rightwing blames all of us. But when things are calm and we try to get rid of Hezbollah, Hamas, etc. the left says we are selling our souls. I really hope Bush gave Hezbollah a temporary pass and not a permanent one. I spoke to a H supporter today who said she doesn't care if Israel rains down on Lebanon if H tries to invade. She claims it will merely make us hate Israel more and bring about the eventual destruction of the Zionist enemy. Ahhhh!
Also, Muslims are to blame. Every Ramadan, the chic, educated Beiruti Sunnis donate to rightwing Islamic organizations with militant agendas because the groups sponsor orphans during the holy month. These moderate Sunnis feel ashamed of themselves for drinking, partying, and having lots of sex throughout the rest of the year. They think they're supposed to be like the Islamists. They think the Islamists are better Muslims than they are.
The Shia don't do this as much.
The Christians don't have these inner quarrels about good/bad Christianity.
They think they're supposed to be like the Islamists. They think the Islamists are better Muslims than they are.
Bingo.
And thus the lack of concerted condemnation of radical extremism by the silent moderates. Secretly the moderates believe the radicals are truer muslims. I've believed this intuitively all along, but I think you've confirmed it for me. That's why this radical muslim thing isn't going to go away, because there is no internal criticism going on.
Posted by: spaniard at May 25, 2005 09:49 AM"The Christians don't have these inner quarrels about good/bad Christianity."
Wanna bet? The stakes aren't as high or violent, but lots of Christian branches are convinced they're the 'real' christians and everybody else is going to hell (literally).
Posted by: Michael Farris at May 25, 2005 02:59 PMMichael Farris: "Wanna bet? The stakes aren't as high or violent, but lots of Christian branches are convinced they're the 'real' christians and everybody else is going to hell (literally)."
Sorry Michael - but violence DEFINES the "stakes". Violence is what MAKES the stakes high, otherwise who could give a damn about the Amish people living their quaint anti-technology lives in Pennsylvania, convinced that the rest of us heathens are damned?
Posted by: Caroline at May 25, 2005 04:27 PMMichael Farris: Wanna bet?
He was referring to the Christians of Lebanon, not our own nutters. Very few people in Lebanon seem particularly religious, regardless of sect. When I was there Hezbollah (which represents nowhere near the majority of the country) was the only noticeable exception to that. Even they are less religious than I expected. They banned Ashura and they don't require women to wear head-scarves, for example.
Posted by: Michael J. Totten at May 25, 2005 04:32 PMSpaniard: "Bingo. And thus the lack of concerted condemnation of radical extremism by the silent moderates. Secretly the moderates believe the radicals are truer muslims"
It's no accident that they think it. It's TRUE! The radicals are in fact better Muslims than they are! Like I've said (it seems like) a million times - the radicals ARE the ones closely following Islam as laid out by Muhammed. They are the ones following his actual example.
Good person=bad Muslim
Bad person=good Muslim
What is so bloody hard for people to understand about this? Islam is an IDEOLOGY! It's not a race! It's not something that a person has no control of. Lebanon.profile's comment comes as no surprise to me - that affluent Muslims who barely adhere to the true tenets of Islam in their everyday lives, nevertheless contribute money to radical Islamist causes out of guilt - cause they know that the Islamists are the true Muslims - i.e. - the ones following their prophet.
Spaniard is 100% correct in inferring from this fact that radical Islam is not going to go away.
The reason for that is that Islam paints the most gruesome picture of Hell for nonbelievers. It is based on FEAR. The FEAR factor is so strong that good people will do nothing in the face of evil on this earth because they have been raised from so young to beleive that they will suffer the worst tortures in the afterlife if they reject this ideology in this life.
Fear is no small thing. It is, in fact, one of the most powerful motivators in the human psyche.
Just as an anecdote from my own personal experience - I was raised very Catholic indeed. I have mentioned that fact a number of times on various threads. I actually subscribe to very little of it at this point (well, almost zero of it, although i haven't rejected all of the Christian part of it, as opposed to the specifically Catholic part) but I have to admit that there is one part of my religious upbringing that clings to me to this day - and that is the proscription against suicide. I was taught from a young age that if I commit suicide I will go to hell. That has stayed with me even though it defies much logic. I think, e.g. of the Japanese people who commit suicide with great honor. (not the kamikaze's but the regular folks who do it for other reasons). I think to myself - those people are comitting suicide with honor, in a virtuous way. Same thing for terminal patients in great pain, captured POW's with cyanide capsules in their teeth and so on. Not for a minute would I think those people are going to hell.
But it's a belief I can't shake for myself. I wouldn't necessarily say I'd be going to hell - just like wandering in purgatory forever or something. Anyway - the point is that I understand how fear is a powerful motivating factor but that means I also clearly understand how fear is a powerful motivating factor for adherents to Islam - and that includes the folks Lebanon.profile describes - the so-called "moderate" Muslims, who will still contribute to radical causes for their "insurance policy" against eternity spent in hell. And Geez - once one understands how hell is literally depicted in Islam, it's not hard to blame them for their fears. But that is no reason to defend Islam. Rather, it strikes me as all the more reason to fight an ideology that enslaves people in fear and too often induces the faithful to commit horrible violence in this life, precisely in order to avoid terrible tortures in the next.
Posted by: Caroline at May 25, 2005 05:02 PMMichael - it would be no secret that I agree with the overall point of your post and Hitchen's article - as my arguments on one of your previous posts on this thread would attest. I was even pleased to see the title of your post - "Soft Bigotry", as it reminded me of Andrew McCarthy's post at NRO a few days ago, which I posted on your site, called "The Smug Delusion of Base Expectations" (NRO 5/17). Others who come to mind who made the same point, include Jeff Jacoby (at the Boston Globe) and Bruce Thornton (at victorhanson.com).
Still, I notice in Hitchens article, that he appears to want to restrict this problem to “Wahhabism”. He mentions : “A Wahhabist version of the Quran, containing distortions of the original and calling for war against "unbelievers" of all sorts”….
WHAT? Did I actually read that correctly? Is Hitchens claiming that a version of the Koran, calling for “war against unbelievers” is a DISTORTION of the original Koran?
Stop the presses! Cause this is major news. If war against the unbelievers is actually a distortion of the Koran, and if Hitchens has proof, then this one article is a major block-bluster!. Unfortunately, he then proceeds to state that Khomeini issued a fatwa against Rushdie. And now I AM confused. I thought Khomeini was a Shia, not a Wahhabi. Does that mean that the Shia’s have also distorted the Koran?
By the way , I know that Hitchens is a huge supporter of the Kurds. I’m still waiting to hear him write one word about the fact that the Kurds prevented the Assyrian Christians from voting in January’s historic elections.
Posted by: Caroline at May 25, 2005 05:49 PMMJT: "Very few people in Lebanon seem particularly religious, regardless of sect."
Michael - really - that's a pretty funny statement about Lebanon, of all places! Maybe they're just exhausted. I do hope so. Maybe we can hope that the citizen's of the former Yogoslavia are similarly exhausted! But still, while Lebanon's exhaustion may well bode well for the citizens of Lebanon, the rest of the world confronting Islamic expansion may not share the exhaustion of the citizen's of Lebanon. So excuse me for pointing it out, but I would call that cold comfort.
Posted by: Caroline at May 25, 2005 06:10 PMhe then proceeds to state that Khomeini issued a fatwa against Rushdie. And now I AM confused. I thought Khomeini was a Shia, not a Wahhabi. Does that mean that the Shia's have also distorted the Koran?
Caroline - "Wahhabi" is often used to describe Islamists who are Shia, Deobandi, Sunni or Sufi. Basically, it describes fundamentalists who believe that Islam should dictate a state's political system and laws.
Fortunately, these fundamentalists aren't in the majority, except in states like Saudi Arabia, the Sudan and (maybe) the UAE. Islamists are in power in Iran, but they're hated by the majority of the population.
This is a pretty good description:Islamism is a general name for all forms of Islamic fundamentalism, and includes several different and sometimes competing political and religious movements, notably the Shi'ite followers of the late Ayatollah Khomeini, extremist Wahhabi Muslims in Saudi Arabia (not necessarily all Wahhabi Muslims), some of the Deobandi sect in India, the Afghani Taliban, the Muslim Brotherhood, the Palestinian Hamas, the Hizbulla, Islamic Jihad and Jama'at Islamia in several countries, as well as and followers of Osama Bin Laden and the infamous Al-Qaeda, a network of Sunni Islamists.Posted by: mary at May 25, 2005 06:40 PM
The Islamists have in common the convictions that Islam must dictate the political organization of the state as well as religious life, intolerance of the West and hatred for Israel, which is considered a foreign implant in the Islamic Middle East, and an ideology or theology of liberation, in which the poor nations of the south play the part of the oppressed proletariat. This last was probably introduced by Marxist Islamic thinkers of Central Asia, and figures prominently in Shi'a Islamist ideology, including that of the Hizbullah. They attribute the decline of Islamic civilization to laxity in religious observance, and demand a return to strict observance of the Qur'an. Most Islamist groups advocate re-establishment of the Caliphate and Jihad (holy war) against the West and believe that Islam is inherently opposed to democracy.
Mary: ""Wahhabi" is often used to describe Islamists who are Shia, Deobandi, Sunni or Sufi. Basically, it describes fundamentalists who believe that Islam should dictate a state's political system and laws"
Mary - I do admire your optimism but the list you presented of the "small minority of extemists" is not comforting, since as you state, it includes Wahhabi's, Shias, Sunni's and Suffi's (what are Deobandi?!). If the small minority of extemists is not a problem, then why are we sitting down at the table to negotitate with the likes of Hizbollah and Hamas? Frankly, your definition of "Islamism" - in the quote above - IS Islam!
And when you imply they are a small minority? - then why is there growing concern (backed up by recent facts on the ground) that democratic elections in the ME will in fact put that small number of Islamic extremists in power?
Posted by: Caroline at May 25, 2005 07:16 PMThis is one of the smartest, most informed group of commenters I have ever come across. Probably speaks to the tone set by the host. Can't believe how much I learn each time I stop in. Even when it gets heated, everyone tries to speak to the issue. Most everyone I should say. And with some voices coming from the very countries that are lit up, it's quite real and cutting edge stuff.
Posted by: allan at May 25, 2005 07:23 PMCaroline,
Wahhabis belong to a specific sect of Islam. Link.
Posted by: chuck at May 25, 2005 07:51 PMwhy are we sitting down at the table to negotitate with the likes of Hizbollah and Hamas
Because there are a lot of idiots in our government and in our State Department.
And when you imply they are a small minority? - then why is there growing concern (backed up by recent facts on the ground) that democratic elections in the ME will in fact put that small number of Islamic extremists in power?
A small minority of 1 billion is still a lot of people. Despite that, we've seen proof in Iraq and Lebanon that the majority does not side with the extremists.
The goal of terrorists is to intimidate the general population and to force the people in power to negotiate with them. If we negotiate with terrorist groups, if we give them political power, they win.
I find it hard to believe that democratic elections would put violent extremists in power (except in Saudi Arabia, where the population is more radical than the Royals). Previous elections in Iraq were held in defiance of the terrorists, not in support of them.
However, non-violent Islamists could rise to power. That's a chance we take when we encourage a democracy.
Posted by: mary at May 25, 2005 07:57 PMMJT: "Very few people in Lebanon seem particularly religious, regardless of sect."
Did you spend enough time out in the villages to make this statement, or do you base it on your experience with folks in Beirut? What did your friends in Beirut tell you? Beirut seems to be pretty westernized and a notably sophisticated city, I suspect it is not representative of the whole country. And what of Hizbollahland? Even in this country the Red/Blue divide is pretty much between the countryside and the cities and New York is not Wichita.
Posted by: chuck at May 25, 2005 07:59 PMCaroline,
I think you need to take a holiday in the Middle East. Seriously. Go somewhere nice like Tunisia or Turkey. You'll feel more at ease in the world.
Posted by: Michael J. Totten at May 25, 2005 10:32 PMI don't need to go anywhere Michael. The world is coming here. :-)
Posted by: Caroline at May 26, 2005 05:01 AMCaroline,
I think you might go a little bit too far in your case against Islam. Islam is a religion that various ideologies cling to. Examining Islam in the Middle Ages would manifest an entirely different entity.
The difference between Good Muslim / Bad Muslim meant something entirely different then; just as the difference between good and bad Christian keep changing. In 1940, would any Christian in America have said someone was a bad Christian for supporting abortion? In 1980, would anyone have said anything about stem cells? In 2015, will anyone attack anyone else as a witch?
These things morph and change. So, you attack Islam as it is now, but not as it was or will be. You have to take this into account. The Catholic church looked pretty bad under Urban II, but it looked pretty decent under John Paul II.
Sadly, the radical Islamists attack other pius groups and kill them quickly. There was an amazing group that was started in Beirut by an Ethiopian Sheikh. The Ahbash focused on spirituality and a giving community. The Syrians, fundamentalist Sunnis, and other groups beat the Ahbash until it no longer has any significant presence.
On religiosity in Lebanon:
Even in the villages, people are not all that religious. The most religious community here are probably the Bahai, but they don't make up much of the population. The Druze are the least religious. Most of my Druze friends are atheists or vague spiritualists, ie they talk a lot about Buddhism, meditation, and eating healthy foods.
Hi Michael,
Ken Woodward is clueless about religion, and has been for years -- my wife and I rolled our eyes whwnever he published his religious tripe in Newsweek. How someone with so little insight about faith and religion could become a religion expert for a national news magazine, I'll never know...oh, wait, some questions answer themselves.
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