December 14, 2004

Patterico Wins

It turns out that I didn’t win the Wizbang blog award for which I was nominated. Somebody cheated on my behalf and voted for me more than 280 times. I’d say “thanks for trying” but that sort of thing really isn’t okay. Why should I be grateful for the effort? I thought I won, and it turns out I didn’t. And I don’t want to win anything if I don’t deserve it.

Patterico obviously runs a pretty good blog or he wouldn’t have won. So why don’t you hop on over and check him out. I don’t have much else to say tonight because I’ll be busy watching this DVD which finally came out today. (50 extra minutes. Woo hoo!)

rotk.jpg

Posted by Michael J. Totten at December 14, 2004 05:39 PM

Comments

I'm calling Jesse Jackson! The hell with Ohio. This is truly an election scandal. We need to recount the votes. The vote was rigged. Patterico cut a deal with both the Communists and the Mafia.

Posted by: David Thomson at December 14, 2004 06:14 PM

Recount!

Posted by: d-rod at December 14, 2004 06:14 PM

I forgot about the ex version... my world of warcraft adiction is going to be on hold tonight....
:)

Posted by: Derek at December 14, 2004 06:26 PM

d-rod,

I was offered a recount but decided I didn't want to be the Al Gore of the Wizbang awards.

Posted by: Michael J. Totten at December 14, 2004 06:28 PM
  • sob *

Where do I go to get my Post Election Selection Trauma treated? * sob * I'm so sorry blogosphere, we tried. * sob * Don't blame me I voted for Totten! Diebold! Halliburton! * sob *
Wake up! Open your eyes! Our Grassroots effort didn't overcome the false consciousness of those who unkowingly vote against their own interests!

(I hope I got that all right)

Posted by: spc67 at December 14, 2004 07:06 PM

Whether a blog comes in first, second or 83rd means little to the reader if it's a favorite.

Posted by: Curtis at December 14, 2004 08:13 PM

Wasn't me, man. I mean, I like you and all...you're a friend...but I don't like ya that much! 280 votes?! That's kind of creepy.

Posted by: Grant McEntire at December 14, 2004 11:17 PM

Thanks, Grant. I guess.

:)

Posted by: Michael J. Totten at December 14, 2004 11:58 PM

This is a bit OT but I thought I'd post it where you'd have a good chance to see it.

All the stuff below is from the linked url.

==

KYLAN didn't support the decision to go to war in Iraq. But he believed that once begun, it was crucial for us to finish the job. He had a running email dialogue with anti-war University of Michigan professor Juan Cole, right up to a few days before his death.

Professor Cole had a personal correspondance with the murdered sailor, and didn't fucking mention it.

He doesn't have the simple decency to recognize - even in passing - the humanity of the murdered man. Why do that? It would get in the way of his ideologically sound point. Back in August, Kylan was a human being. Now he's a token in Cole's ideological game.

Posted by: M. Simon at December 15, 2004 01:53 AM

Bugger!
Patterico's blog is okay, but not up to your standard, Michael. Maybe in another few years. It's a little...what's the word? Gauche. And it lacks maturity. And he needs to find another word for 'moron'.

Posted by: Fish at December 15, 2004 02:38 AM

I wrote on Patterico's site that he was strong second choice for me. But definitely second.

Your own integrity, a separte post rather than just an update, with a short clear statement against cheating -- perfect.

I hope to get a Christmas present similar to what you're enjoying/ enjoyed.

Maybe next year you'll be in the top 100.

Did Glenn tell you when he blogrolled you? When did you know? (You did know?)

Posted by: Tom Grey at December 15, 2004 05:43 AM

Get your passports, we're going to Canada!!!!

Posted by: Mike at December 15, 2004 06:14 AM

Fish,

You moron! (Just kidding!)

I know plenty of words for moron. Sub-moron, freakin' moron, maroon, and, uh, that's it.

My blog is "gauche"? I'm hurt. I think it's much more "droit."

I'll fully admit that I'm not as mature as Michael. I'm also probably not as old (I'm 36). (Sorry if I'm wrong, Michael!) But I doubt that explains it all. Reading his site, it's possible and even likely that he was more mature at my age (assuming he's a bit older) than I am now.

But you're also catching me at an interesting time. The top post at my site now is about the Martini Brothers, source of Juan Cole's nonsense. These guys get under my skin like few others -- largely because one of them told a lie about me, and the other is defending it. They call me names like "bitch" and "gutless coward." There are a few people out there (Ted Rall, who mocks the families of terror victims, is another) who induce this sort of visceral reaction in me.

Anyway, the length of this defensive comment is probably indicative of the fact that I find some truth in your comment. There is a streak of immaturity in my personality that comes to the fore at times on the blog. As you say, I may mellow with time.

Thanks to Michael for the kind words about the blog. I think his is excellent.

Posted by: Patterico at December 15, 2004 06:17 AM

Well, its obvious what happened. Patterico put the extra 280 votes in for MJT, just to disqualify him!

CONSPIRACY!!!

Heh,

Ratatosk

Posted by: Ratatosk at December 15, 2004 06:54 AM

I wouldn't know how to do that. So I had my friends at the CIA do it.

Posted by: Patterico at December 15, 2004 07:10 AM

You know, I don't know why I brought up the age thing because it really doesn't make a difference. From his picture, Michael looks maybe 3-4 years older than me, and I'm guessing I'll still be this immature in 3-4 years. So scratch that excuse. It doesn't wash.

The bottom line, as I posted on my site, is that I engaged in some Yourish-style guerilla campaigning that Michael was (for the most part) too classy to engage in. (He did beg for votes occasionally, but that's about it.) Frankly, I did this because I recognized that Michael has a more popular weblog, and would probably beat me if I didn't campaign aggressively.

Posted by: Patterico at December 15, 2004 07:20 AM

Michael, enjoy the flick! We're waiting until the weekend for a marathon session of all three extended movies.

Posted by: Matt Snyder at December 15, 2004 07:38 AM

“Professor Cole had a personal correspondance with the murdered sailor, and didn't fucking mention it.”

The main thing that I find so fascinating is how few people realize that there’s nothing unusual concerning Juan Cole’s views. Just about every academic and liberal intellectual who supported John Kerry thinks the same way. Cole merely represents the conventional thinking of the national Democratic Party. What planet were some of you folks living on?

Posted by: David Thomson at December 15, 2004 07:53 AM

Sorry to hear the news of your loss - for what it's worth, I like you best (and I am not the one who stuffed).

But I have to say I love your comment about competition. Testing yourself against others - even if it is somewhat staged and superficial - is really what it's all about; its the test that matters most, not the result.

And no one is going to stop reading you because you lost to Patterico.

Posted by: too many steves at December 15, 2004 08:29 AM

Regarding the chunk of quoted text above, it erroneously identifies Juan Cole as "anti-war." He ain't, he supported the invasion of Iraq and the overthrow of Hussein.

Do any of the mental giants contributing to the Cole dogpile even read his blog? Or are they just demonizing based on impressions of it?

Posted by: double-plus-ungood at December 15, 2004 08:36 AM

“Regarding the chunk of quoted text above, it erroneously identifies Juan Cole as "anti-war." He ain't, he supported the invasion of Iraq and the overthrow of Hussein.”

The main thing, though, is that Juan Cole embraces the conventional Democratic party meme: the Islamic nihilists would likely be peaceniks if only Israel did not allegedly victimize the Palestinians. The whole foreign policy theme of John Kerry’s campaign was unofficially devoted to this theme. There are essentially two sorts of people: those like myself who agree with Bernard Lewis and those who are followers of Noam Chomsky and Edward Said. Lewis rightfully contends that the Arab world is enraged at its third rate status in today’s world. This is the fault of the Muslim leadership of some 400-500 years ago. Nobody told them to embrace anti-intellectualism and ludditism. The latter gentlemen argue that Western imperialism is responsible for the plight of the Arabs. It’s as simple as that.

Posted by: David Thomson at December 15, 2004 08:53 AM

And no one is going to stop reading you because you lost to Patterico.

With any luck, even more people will start reading Michael's blog because of this contest. I'm one of them; hopefully some of my readers (whom I have encouraged to come over and take a look) will be among that group as well.

Posted by: Patterico at December 15, 2004 09:14 AM

David Thomson,

True enough, and the actual "truth" probably lies somewhere between those two points of view. Certianly, the adopted dogma of the Islamic faith left them in the Dark Ages. It reminds me of what could have happened in Europe under the Catholic Church, if it hadn't been for the Renaissance and the rise of democratic thinking in Italy and England. Once the Church lost its stranglehold on the people, society advanced. The Muslims, sadly didn't get their renaissance.

However, while killer bees are bad news, stepping in and smacking the hive with a stick, (when dressed in boxers and a wife-beater) is not wise. The Arabs have their hosts of issues, and American policies in the Middle East help to exaserbate them.

That certianly doesn't mean that Americans are at fault for 9/11 or that Isreal is at fault for suicide bombers destroying the lives of innocent civillians on a bus.

It does however, mean that we would probably go a long way toward diffusing the situation, by reexamining our policies and perhaps considering a better approach.

Do I know exactly what approach is best? Nope, I don't. But, that doesn't mean we couldn't do better.

Posted by: Ratatosk at December 15, 2004 09:15 AM

David Thomson: The main thing, though, is that Juan Cole embraces the conventional Democratic party meme: the Islamic nihilists would likely be peaceniks if only Israel did not allegedly victimize the Palestinians.

Well, you obviously don't read Cole's blog, because that is pure fantasy.

Posted by: double-plus-ungood at December 15, 2004 09:18 AM

What is so neat about the blogosphere is the dynamics of it all. Patterico's readers will come over here, and your readers will visit his blog.

Both of you are really good, and I hedged my bets... one for Michael, one for Patterico, one for Michael!

Posted by: Mike at December 15, 2004 09:30 AM

“The Arabs have their hosts of issues, and American policies in the Middle East help to exaserbate them.”

Boloney. Our actual policies have virtually nothing to do with the troubles of the Arab world. The heck with the anti-Americanism of our major universities. We should never forget that Osama bin Ladin and many of his followers attended schools in the West. Their professors were almost certainly hostile to towards the United States.

“It does however, mean that we would probably go a long way toward diffusing the situation, by reexamining our policies and perhaps considering a better approach.”

John Kerry’s top foreign policy advisors unofficially agree with you---but I don’t. Israel is a victim of Arab anti-Semitism. It is a just nation that goes out of its way to be fair to the Palestinians. All the talk regarding the settlements is merely a away to ignore Jew hatred. We merely need to continue introducing democracy in the Middle East. That is the truth path towards peace. Afghanistan was the first domino to fall, Iraq will be the second, and so.

Posted by: David Thomson at December 15, 2004 09:38 AM

David,

Well, since Bush is intent on that plan, it would be fantastic for it to work. I don't believe that anyone has ever created a lasting 'imposed' democracy, but there's always a first time.

Here's to flying in the face of History!

Posted by: Ratatosk at December 15, 2004 09:48 AM

“Well, since Bush is intent on that plan, it would be fantastic for it to work. I don't believe that anyone has ever created a lasting 'imposed' democracy, but there's always a first time.”

Imposed? What a strange and illogical thing to say. We are not imposing democracy on anybody. The United States is merely providing an opportunity for those who wish to take advantage of it. We are protecting the majority of Afghans and Iraqis from the totalitarians who prefer the old ways of doing things. Ultimately, it’s their choice to make.

The national Democratic Party is unofficially committed to the proposition that Jew hatred is sometimes justified (and no, I’m not even slightly exaggerating). Israel is supposedly victimizing those brown skinned Palestinians. Never underestimate the importance of the race card. The fact that Arabs are rarely white skinned and blue eyed prevents liberals from honestly coming to grips with the issue of terrorism.

Posted by: David Thomson at December 15, 2004 10:02 AM

DTL: Imposed? What a strange and illogical thing to say. We are not imposing democracy on anybody.

What would "imposing democracy" on a nation look like to you, DT?

And, just out of curiousity, what would your feelings be if the Iraqi people elected a government that wanted to create an Iranian-style theocracy?

Posted by: double-plus-ungood at December 15, 2004 10:09 AM

“What would "imposing democracy" on a nation look like to you, DT?”

This is exactly what we did to both Japan and Germany---and it worked splendidly well. Still, that’s not what we are currently doing in the Middle East.

“And, just out of curiousity, what would your feelings be if the Iraqi people elected a government that wanted to create an Iranian-style theocracy?”

This is why I oppose pure democracies. Iraq is being set up as a republic, as we are, to that the majority cannot deprive the minority of their rights.

Posted by: David Thomson at December 15, 2004 10:49 AM

Iraq is being set up as a republic, as we are, to that the majority cannot deprive the minority of their rights.

In what way?

Posted by: double-plus-ungood at December 15, 2004 10:57 AM

Regieme change happens in two ways:

1. Revolution - This is the sort of regieme change where the populace has taken personal responsibility for their nation. The people choose to overthrow the government and the people choose to replace it with another government.

2. Invasion - This is the sort of regieme change where an outside force removes the current government and replaces it with the sort of governmental system they determine best.

While there have been many successful democracies formed from the first, I don't know of any democracies that have stayed the course, if they were brought about by means of the second.

Thomas Jefferson made this point clearly to M. de Lafayette

"A full measure of liberty is not now perhaps to be expected by your nation, nor am I confident they are prepared to preserve it. More than a generation will be requisite, under the administration of reasonable laws favoring the progress of knowledge in the general mass of the people, and their habituation to an independent security of person and property, before they will be capable of estimating the value of freedom, and the necessity of a sacred adherence to the principles on which it rests for preservation."

http://www.juntosociety.com/i_documents/tjmdl.htm

He also notes: "Instead of that liberty which takes root and growth in the progress of reason, if recovered by mere force or accident; it becomes, with an unprepared people, a tyranny still, of the many, the few, or the one."

Jefferson went on to point out how - unlike France - we had overthrown an external occupier all by ourselves. He felt that the repression and occupation of the English in the Colonies "has helped rather than hurt us, by arousing the general indignation of our country, and by marking to the world of Europe the vandalism and brutal character of the English government. It has merely served to immortalize their infamy."

You see, American Colonists took Personal Responsibility and acted when they were prepared to walk the path of democracy. The French had not and the horrors of the French "Reign of Terror" hasn't been forgotten.

Finally, keep in mind the words of our dear FDR (Sept 22, 1936):

"In the truest sense, freedom cannot be bestowed, it must be achieved."

Perhaps Iraq will be the first country to embrace a 'bestowed' democracy, perhaps they will buck the mountains of historical evidence to the contrary. I hope so, I would love to see every individual in the world, free to persue their way of life, without hinderence from an opposing ideology. True democracy, worldwide, is a grand idea and a worthy goal.

But, it's never been achieved through invasion.

Posted by: Ratatosk at December 15, 2004 11:17 AM

Patterico,

You're older than me. I'm 34.

Posted by: Michael J. Totten at December 15, 2004 11:28 AM

You're older than me. I'm 34.

Ppphhhtt. Infants.

Posted by: double-plus-ungood at December 15, 2004 11:33 AM

It's your beard.

Whenever I have worn a beard I always look 5 years older. At least.

Posted by: Patterico at December 15, 2004 11:36 AM

Perhaps Iraq will be the first country to embrace a 'bestowed' democracy, perhaps they will buck the mountains of historical evidence to the contrary. I hope so, I would love to see every individual in the world, free to persue their way of life, without hinderence from an opposing ideology. True democracy, worldwide, is a grand idea and a worthy goal.

Indeed. And democracy does a pretty good job of spreading itself around, you only need to look at the number of democracies at the beginning of the last century compared to the number at the end.

However, an awful lot of intricate pieces need to fit together before Iraq could enjoy a successful democracy, and there's so much that could easily mess it up that I think odds are severely against it.

Posted by: double-plus-ungood at December 15, 2004 11:39 AM

You're older than me. I'm 34.

I like to stop by here once in a while just to see what the kids are up to these days.

Posted by: chuck at December 15, 2004 12:09 PM

Old! You want old? When I was born there were only 48 States. Ha!

Posted by: too many steves at December 15, 2004 12:13 PM

Old! You want old? When I was born there were only 48 States. Ha!

Me too. And I was born before the International Atomic Energy Agency was established. Double ha!

Posted by: double-plus-ungood at December 15, 2004 12:44 PM

Wow, I'll take my blankie and sit over here at the kiddie table.

Posted by: Ratatosk at December 15, 2004 01:27 PM

Hmmmm, well, I can remember Neil Armstrong walking on the moon, but that's as far back as I go. (Oh yeah, and when I was born, we had a young, popular, liberal, and staunchly anti-Communist Democratic president ... but that didn't last long.)

Posted by: Asher Abrams - Dreams Into Lightning at December 15, 2004 04:07 PM

Slightly O/T, and just a wee bit of shameless self-promotion, I owe MJT huge thanks for the inspiration to do this post on the decline and fall of The New Republic.

Posted by: Asher Abrams - Dreams Into Lightning at December 15, 2004 04:10 PM

"...the conventional Democratic party meme: the Islamic nihilists would likely be peaceniks if only Israel did not allegedly victimize the Palestinians. The whole foreign policy theme of John Kerry’s campaign was unofficially devoted to this theme. There are essentially two sorts of people: those like myself who agree with Bernard Lewis and those who are followers of Noam Chomsky and Edward Said...The national Democratic Party is unofficially committed to the proposition that Jew hatred is sometimes justified".....

David, it would be absolutely splendid if you could, for a change, actually present some kind of proof for all of these polemics. No offense, but you're a joke, buddy. In debunking your unbelievable assertions, I don't even know where to begin.

For starters, when did John Kerry say or even merely hint at any of the things you attribute to him?! He recognized, on multiple occasions, that the Israelis have some blood on their hands too, that the road to peace would require some action on their part as well. But, he never even came close to what you're suggesting. Hell, he verbally crucified Howard Dean during the primaries for suggesting that it's "not our place to take sides" in the conflict. With no hestitation. Whatsoever. But, oh, that's right, it was UNOFFICIAL you said. Well, then your nutty tin-foil conspiracy theory stands, I guess. Please forgive me.

Next, that little bit about the "Chomsky-Said" people is utterly ridiculous. I know who Edward Said is and what he believes in. That makes me a part of probably the good 0.01% of the population who would even recognize the name. And, as a liberal, I hate the fucker. Chomsky and Said are not liberals, they are post-modern-leftists; something very very different. Leftists are in the vast minority within the Democratic Party. Average Democrats are people like my father and grandmother, not Edward Said.

And, last but not least, I think Joe Lieberman would punch you in the face for that last line. Again, you conflate the ANSWER crowd with folks like my grandmother, Joe Biden, and John Kerry. Don't do that.

You had this bitch-slap coming.

Posted by: Grant McEntire at December 15, 2004 05:47 PM

“And, last but not least, I think Joe Lieberman would punch you in the face for that last line.”

Joe Lieberman? He was treated like a punk during the nomination process. The Connecticut U.S. Senator is evidence for my position, not yours. He has already been marginalized by the national Democratic Party insiders. Moveon.org and its allies will make sure that anyone like Lieberman will never earn the party’s nomination.

“He recognized, on multiple occasions, that the Israelis have some blood on their hands too, that the road to peace would require some action on their part as well.”

Such implied moral equivalency by John Kerry should have been roundly condemned. The Jews of Israel are mostly victims. Their sins against the Palestinians are few and far between. No, Israel offered more than enough to Yasir Arafat. The onus should be placed upon the shoulders of the murdering Palestinians. When is the last time an Israeli suicide bomber slaughtered innocent women and children? And I noticed how conveniently you ignore the risible comments of Bob Beckel and Kerry’s stepson.

I have also repeatedly stated that the Moveon.org and Answer folks represent only about a third of the Democratic Party. However, that is sufficient for them to possess the ultimate veto power over the presidential nomination process. Your “grandmother, Joe Biden, and (even) John Kerry” are minor leaguers. George Soros and his fellow billionaire liberals are the real players.

Posted by: David Thomson at December 15, 2004 07:01 PM

Thanks for your kind reply Michael, actually I was not offended that you did not like Tripoli because you only got to see some of the 'Italian quarter' and part of the old city, you did not see the hidden places. I still look forward to your article. As soon as it is technically possible ( I'm in Syria now )for me I shall upload my photos online and you can share then with your fans if you wish( in additions to the earlier ones) I don't mind showing the warts and all ;) but I also like to show the nice places. I'm 1/4 berber by the way . The berber people speak their own language usually (Amazigh) in addition to Arabic. For us in Libya , Ghadames is mostly Touaregh because these are the people whose men usually cover their faces and the women go barefaced. Though because of the history of the region I would not be surprised that there would be some berbers as well. Libyan berbers are 99% white ( caucasian ), many of them usually with lighter coloured hair. In fact in Libya if you have lighter than usual skin and you're obviously not Western/European etc.. you would usually be asked if you were berber. Hence my statement about the Ghadamsi people being Touaregh, who are mostly 'quite' dark. However, I'm not an anthropologist so I cannot say I am 100% sure ok :)

Posted by: Highlander at December 15, 2004 07:59 PM

Highlander,

I wish I could have seen the hidden places. I did like the Italian quarter, and some parts of the old city. What I strongly disliked was the part of Tripoli between the old city and that set of five modern towers (I forget what they are called) by the sea. I walked through that area and really really hated it. It looked like the Soviet Union - as did most of Tripoli I saw from the car on the way in and out of the city.

Sorry. I can only write about what I saw and how it looked to me while I was there.

There are large parts of my city that are awful, too, and I'm not afraid to admit it. Also, huge sections of Paris are hideous, but don't tell anyone from France that I said that. :)

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Posted by: Payday Loan at December 16, 2004 09:54 AM

Michael,
I realised from you photos that you had only visited the most hideous patch in Tripoli ;) that is an eyesore man , it was probably the nearest thing to your hotel. I just wish I could give the person who put you there or left you, a piece of my mind, he/she was a very poor guide I'm afraid and no wonder you saw no women in that area , no self respecting woman was going to walk there in that desolate stretch. ..Actually, men outnumber women in Libya he he he ...we have more to choose from

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Posted by: SEO博客 at November 12, 2007 10:00 PM
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