Michael J. Totten: Standing on the Shoulders of Giants

November 28, 2004

Standing on the Shoulders of Giants

Via Alan E. Brain I have come to appreciate the work of Guardian cartoonist Steve Bell, and a grand tradition in which the roots of his vision can be seen.

Here's a cartoon by Steve Bell on the liberation of Iraq, that seems to owe something to this great precedent on the liberation of France.

Alan Brain shows a different example. Here's Bell and here is some Nazi propoganda. Have fun.

Posted by Jeremy Brown at November 28, 2004 08:14 AM

Comments

Not only their propaganda, but also their tactics.

If their violent protests and ransacking of opposition headquarters isn't reminiscent of the Brownshirts, then I don't know what is.

Posted by: David at November 28, 2004 09:27 AM

Who is "they," and what is Steve Bell's role among them? It sounds like you're saying a cartoonist at a left-wing British paper is emblematic of Democrats, who are secretly responsible for any and all violence against Republican party buildings. But ... that would be loony.

Posted by: Gary Johnston at November 28, 2004 10:11 AM

That's a ridiculously tenuous link.

Posted by: Daniel at November 28, 2004 10:29 AM

Who is "they,"

Gary,

"they" is whomever the shoe fits. But it sounds, based on the rest of your post, that you already know whom the shoe fits.

It sounds like you're saying a cartoonist at a left-wing British paper is emblematic of Democrats,

Brownshirts weren't emblematic of all Nazis either. Yet all brownshirts were Nazis.

...who are secretly responsible for any and all violence against Republican party buildings. But ... that would be loony.

The cartoonist isn't "secretly" responsible, though perhaps he is indirectly responsible. Just as Leni Riefenstahl was indidrectly repsonsible.

Posted by: David at November 28, 2004 11:20 AM

Hold on here, the liberation of Iraq is somehow comparable to the liberation of France and young healthy 28 year olds like Mr. Totten are not signing up to fight in Iraq? In World War 2, a real War surely, young 28 year old healthy men didn't sit around writing about how glorious the liberation of France was, they signed up and died or got injured in great numbers because the cause was actually important.
In the Iraq case, just a bunch of bluster from armchair warriors?

Posted by: T Franks at November 28, 2004 06:03 PM

I've always enjoyed looking at Nazi propaganda to remind myself of how much it hews to the standard leftist themes of anti-capitalism and anti-americanism. What distinguishes it from the run of the mill stuff produced by the left is the peculiar "racial science" that goes far beyond the ordinary racial epithets thrown at Dr. Rice by the current generation of Liberals.

Posted by: chuck at November 28, 2004 06:25 PM

Actually during WW2, most healthy men were signing up to fight, especially ones who didn't have children. The ones that supported the importance of the cause at least weren't making loud noises about how important it was and then leaving it to others to die or get injured. I know, there was a draft...some excuse for this generation of armchair warriors.

Posted by: T Franks at November 28, 2004 06:32 PM

Actually Chuck, if you knew your history of the Nazis, they eliminated systematically the leftists. They rewarded the rightists. Your analogy has about as much water as the failed US occupation of Iraq is the equivalent of WW2.

Posted by: T Franks at November 28, 2004 06:33 PM

I think most fighting age men today don't really give a crap one way or the other (except for the ones signed up). The rest of us who do care aren't fighting age anymore. Do you suggest we just shut up so that the naysayers like yourself can have a run of the store?

I'm sure you'd love that. Aint gonna happen.

Posted by: David at November 28, 2004 06:39 PM

Hey, ya can shut me up all ya wanna do, armchair warrior bloggers in their twenties who are healthy are hypocrites comparing Iraq to WW2.

Posted by: T Franks at November 28, 2004 06:47 PM

"It would have been a good thing if the fascists had been defeated in Spain, but the U.S. military wasn't involved yet."

On the subject of Spain, let's not forget that it was leftist volunteers from around the world, including America, that helped fight the fascists there. The Republican party at that time primrily isolationist.

Posted by: A.Canuck at November 29, 2004 04:17 AM

Here is what I consider the most telling point about Steve Bell's cartoons: He shows George Bush as a chimp and Tony Blair as a poodle. But he shows Saddam as . . . Saddam. When he depicts Saddam, he copies from Iraqi propaganda pictures.

In Bell's world, a brutal dictator like Saddam is worthy of respect, but elected democratic leaders like Blair and Bush are not. That his views are acceptable at Britain's most important left wing newspaper shows something about the Guardian and, perhaps, something about the left in Britain.

Posted by: Jim Miller at November 29, 2004 05:02 AM

"On the subject of Spain, let's not forget that it was leftist volunteers from around the world, including America, that helped fight the fascists there."

I hear you on that one. That has been a big bee in my bonnet in terms of underscoring the difference between the Left then and the Left now.

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Jeremy Brown: "But I think it's helpful to be reminded that Bell's sort of propoganda is specifically of a reactionary nature, that it's pro authoritarian rather than Left wing."

Really? Have you seen his Thatcher era cartoons? His cartoons are a reaction to the current political climate.

And I'm not sure why you see the need to label the catoons as propoganda, you'd be hard pressed to find a political cartoonist who doesn't continually press their views. What's different about Steve Bell?

Jim Miller: "He shows George Bush as a chimp and Tony Blair as a poodle. But he shows Saddam as . . . Saddam."

It's also because Bush and Blair regularly appear in the cartoons, he can create an image for them. On the other hand, Charles Kennedy, the leader of the Liberal Democrats, isn't depicted in such a manner. And if I remember correctly, Thatcher (who Bell would have disliked much more than Blair) was generally shown as Thatcher.

"In Bell's world, a brutal dictator like Saddam is worthy of respect."

Sorry, that's just wrong.

Posted by: Daniel at November 29, 2004 08:06 AM

Thanks for the link, Mary. That really is a fascinating read -- provides some eye opening context.

So maybe Bell is a propogandist through intimidation, in part. He should consider another profession. Advertising, for instance.

Posted by: Jeremy Brown at November 29, 2004 11:54 AM

yeah thanks Mary. Bell's confessed fear of crossing the arab fatwaists but "fearlessness" in the face of his political opponents at home says a lot about the man's character.

He's a self-loathing Lib who attacks the only force capable of protecting him from the fatwaists he fears so much.

Posted by: David at November 29, 2004 12:08 PM

"Bell's confessed fear of crossing the arab fatwaists but "fearlessness" in the face of his political opponents at home says a lot about the man's character. He's a self-loathing Lib who attacks the only force capable of protecting him from the fatwaists he fears so much."

When are the elite intellectuals in the Anglosphere going to realize that they are the new Jews, regardless of whether they are liberals or conservatives (fine but ultimately quite meaningless distinctions)? Kind of takes the humor out of propoganda doesn't it?

Posted by: Caroline at November 29, 2004 04:13 PM

Thanks for that Jeremy, there is certainly some truth to what you say, but I don't think this makes him pro authoritarian, or comparable to Nazi propoganda. As for Arafat, consider the difference between the British reaction and the American reaction (including our government's) and you'll find the two cartoonists are pretty typical.

Mary, I only had a quick look at the article you linked to, but I assume you're referring to this bit:

"Bell admits that the Muslim Fatwa is something of a deterrent when portraying Arabs. This he was particularly aware of during the time in the early 1980s when Salman Rushdie was issued with one. According to Bell:

It does make you think twice although I did my best at the time of taking the piss out of Ayatollah Khomeni"

Which isn't quite what you wrote.

I'll shut up about this now, as I'm sure I'm getting boring.

Posted by: Daniel at November 29, 2004 04:36 PM

Bell said that the Muslim fatwa 'is' somewhat of a deterrent when portraying Arabs. While I don't want to get into the definition of 'is', I'm willing to bet that he never 'took the piss' out of the Ayatollah (or Bin Laden, or Arafat) with the same amount of hatred that fuels his 'parodies' of Bush, Blair and Israel.

From an interview with other bold British cartoonists, who were honoring the creator of a Sharon-eating-babies cartoon produced by the Independent:

"Himel: My question to you is, why, in all these paintings [sic] don't we see Sharon and Arafat eating babies?

Benson: Maybe Jews don't issue fatwas.

Himel: What do you mean by that?

Benson: Well, if you upset an Islamic or Muslim group, um, as you know, fatwas can be issued by Ayatollahs and such, like, and maybe it's at the back of each cartoonist's mind, that they could be in trouble if they do so.

Himel: If they do what?

Benson: If they depict, uh, say, an Arab leader in the same manner.

Himel: Then they could suffer?

Benson: Then they could suffer death, couldn't they? Which is rather different."

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Posted by: W-J-X at November 8, 2007 07:15 PM

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Posted by: huojia at November 14, 2007 08:33 PM

Posted by: huojia at November 14, 2007 08:41 PM

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