October 22, 2004

Once More Into the Breach

Christopher Hitchens returns to The Nation to write one last column.

One of the editors of this magazine asked me if I would also say something about my personal evolution. I took him to mean: How do you like your new right-wing friends? In the space I have, I can only return the question. I prefer them to Pat Buchanan and Vladimir Putin and the cretinized British Conservative Party, or to the degraded, mendacious populism of Michael Moore, who compares the psychopathic murderers of Iraqis to the Minutemen. I am glad to have seen the day when a British Tory leader is repudiated by the White House. An irony of history, in the positive sense, is when Republicans are willing to risk a dangerous confrontation with an untenable and indefensible status quo.
I can say, and have said, much the same thing.

There’s a flip side to this, too. I may not vote for John Kerry, but I would stand shoulder to shoulder with him against Pat Robertson, Trent Lott, Tom DeLay, James Dobson, Rick Santorum, Alan Keyes, and – gosh – I don’t know how many other Republicans. That’s why, despite the fact that I’ve been pushed toward to the right, I haven’t joined the right.

No one ever asks me, Hitchens, or anyone else who left the left what we think of our center-wing friends. You can’t ask that question sarcastically. So it doesn’t get asked. How do you like being independent and free? The question answers itself.

(Hat tip: Marc Cooper.)

Posted by Michael J. Totten at October 22, 2004 11:46 AM
Comments

I'll stand by you both against Michael Moore and Trent Lott.

Unless of course I make a run for the Peruvian mountains before the coming Ice Age and Nzai State.

;-)

Posted by: Ratatosk at October 22, 2004 11:58 AM

When are you two going stop whining and like, run for office.

You want to change the system? Then change it.

Deeds, not words.

Posted by: Eric Blair at October 22, 2004 11:59 AM

Ditto, Tosk. (The first part, that is. You can hunker down in the Andes by yourself.)

Posted by: Michael J. Totten at October 22, 2004 12:00 PM

Eric: Deeds, not words.

Words are what I have. I'm a writer!

Posted by: Michael J. Totten at October 22, 2004 12:01 PM

One of the editors of this magazine asked me if I would also say something about my personal evolution. I took him to mean: How do you like your new right-wing friends?

Lame. The editor probably meant "please say something about your personal evolution."

Posted by: Oberon at October 22, 2004 12:01 PM

Oberon: The editor probably meant "please say something about your personal evolution."

Hitchens did say something about that. He took care of "both" questions with a single answer.

Posted by: Michael J. Totten at October 22, 2004 12:11 PM

The idea of a "Right-wing" in the United States of America is a methaphorical death trap. Let me say it again, there is no "Right" in the US, just libertarians, conservatives and liberals and all the subcatagories (paleos, neos), mixes and special interests (Christians, Objectivists) of each. None of these groups are Fascist, Monarchist, Militariasts, Churchist or National Socialist (at least today).

In the US the Left is it's own group, not a comparison. It is a vile European import. Also, liberals and Democrats are not necessarily Left. Look at American history. The Democratic Party was the Big Tent party of Southern Conservatives and New Deal liberals. Most were not "Left" wing (i.e. commies, anarchists or socialists) until Leftists in the 1960s started calling themselves "liberals" and joning (infiltrating) the Democratic Party.

Indeed, the whole memo of a Left/Right is a propagandistic concept created by the Left (to create enemies of the Party). To a member of ANSWER, a Trotyskist communist is "Facsist" and Right-wing!

It is wrong for conseratives and libertarians to call themselves Right-wing. And it is wrong for liberals (real welfare-statist, Rawlsian liberals) to call themselves Left-wing.

Best to be yourself and let others guess or label or affiliation. Or pick a name close to whatever political tradition you see yourself closest too (and Right-wing is not a tradition in the US!). But let's call the Left for what it is, a collection of anti-american communists who want to overthrow our American system of government. Let't drop the Left propaganda of Left/Right and start talking about what we REALLY believe.

Posted by: Tbone at October 22, 2004 12:24 PM

His whole article was crap. How can he possibly think that Americans who don't approve of Bush would somehow approve Muqtada al-Sadr instead?

I am long past being sick and tired of the bullshit that anyone who thinks invading Iraq was a dumb move, or was a good move handled incompetently, must want Saddam back in power, want the Taliban back in power, want New York in ruins, want to surrender to terrorists, etc. etc. etc.

Posted by: Oberon at October 22, 2004 12:27 PM

Oberon: How can he possibly think that Americans who don't approve of Bush would somehow approve Muqtada al-Sadr instead?

Because he just got done arguing with his ex-friend Tariq Ali who supports "the resistance."

Posted by: Michael J. Totten at October 22, 2004 12:31 PM

How can he possibly think that Americans who don't approve of Bush would somehow approve Muqtada al-Sadr instead?

Oberon,

that's easy. Because that's the inevitable conclusion when your standardbearers call Iraqi insurgents "minutement", that how. Why do you think we consider the Left to be in the hands of lunatics.

Posted by: David at October 22, 2004 12:45 PM

You can still stand for office, Mike.

Back your words with deeds.

Posted by: Eric Blair at October 22, 2004 01:01 PM

in politics words ARE deeds.

Posted by: David at October 22, 2004 01:03 PM

in politics words ARE deeds

One usually has to run for office first for that to be so.

Posted by: Eric Blair at October 22, 2004 01:13 PM

David, please don't call Moore a standard-bearer for Democrats. If you consider Moore to be representative of the left, then I would agree that it's a bunch of loons. However, Moore has never said that if Bush gets reelected that we'll see the end of the country, as Ann Coulter has said about Kerry. According to Coulter and other wing nuts, Kerry=bin Laden. It's shameful that anyone would suggest that a man who has served in the Senate for that long would ever hand the country over to terrorists. Just as the left has it's "Bush=Hitler" crowd, the right has it's "Why do you hate America?" crowd.

Don't judge the mainstream by the radical fringes.

Posted by: Greg at October 22, 2004 01:14 PM

Don't judge the mainstream by the radical fringes.

Sorry Greg, you'd love to have it both ways wouldn't you.

Wasn't that Michael Moore sitting next to Jimmy Carter during the Dem convention? Your radical fringe IS the mainstream.

Posted by: David at October 22, 2004 01:18 PM

One usually has to run for office first for that to be so.

Eric,

you don't think journalists and "the media" can make as big an impact as politicians can?

Welcome to the world of WORDS & IDEAS.

Posted by: David at October 22, 2004 01:20 PM

Tbone: But let's call the Left for what it is, a collection of anti-american communists who want to overthrow our American system of government.

Bullshit. I'm a leftist (a social democrat, not a liberal, which is a centerist position), and I am neither anti-American (note that I used the American spelling of centrist above), nor would I want the American system of government overthrown. Although you guys might give some thought to revising the whole electoral college thing, it's wierd and it's out-of-date.

david: Because that's the inevitable conclusion when your standardbearers call Iraqi insurgents "minutement", that how. Why do you think we consider the Left to be in the hands of lunatics.

Also bullshit. Just because there are some prominent and rabid nitwits in the media who happen to be right-wing doesn't mean that I would consider them to be "standardbearers" of conservatism. When Michael Moore is the Democratic presidential candidate, then you might have a point. Until then, let's keep the rabid leftwing sockpuppets in the drawer. Besides, despite the spittle froth that flies every time his name is mentioned around right-wingers, he can't hold a candle to his counterparts on the right. He's never called for the murder of conservatives, and he never shouts down people he doesn't agree with.

Posted by: double-plus-ungood at October 22, 2004 01:26 PM

Just because there are some prominent and rabid nitwits in the media who happen to be right-wing doesn't mean that I would consider them to be "standardbearers" of conservatism.

double,

first of all, you're a Brit, and therefore only an observer to our elections. Your comments are received in that light. (and that goes for The Gaurdian as well).

Second of all, righwing nuts aren't invited to sit next to ex-GOP presidents during their national showcase conventions. Conventions send a message, and the Dems have sent theirs.

The Dems want it both ways, and we won't let them.

(I was just kidding about my first point by the way ;-)

Posted by: David at October 22, 2004 01:31 PM

double,

first of all, you're a Brit,...

Dude. CANADIAN.

Born in Glasgow, grew up in South America and the West Indies, emigrated to Canada when I was ten.

I just pronounce certain words funny. Other than that, I am indistiguishable from your average Canuck. Other than being seven feet tall, having one eye and a "What the hell are YOU staring at?" tattoo on my forehead, and a hook where my right hand should be. Oh, and a huge hammer and sickle branded onto my back.

Posted by: double-plus-ungood at October 22, 2004 01:38 PM

david: Second of all, righwing nuts aren't invited to sit next to ex-GOP presidents during their national showcase conventions. Conventions send a message, and the Dems have sent theirs.

Moore was sitting beside a prominent rabbi at the GOP convention. Doesn't mean he's a standardbearer of the jewish community, does it?

Beside, you guys already think that Carter was just one political step away from Stalin anyway, don't you?

Posted by: double-plus-ungood at October 22, 2004 01:40 PM

double,

that depends on whether Moore was invited by the rabbi (he wasn't). Moore was at the GOP convention as a reporter for USA Today.

I don't believe Moore was sitting next to Jimmy Carter in order to report on the events, but rather to send a message to the Leftwing Lunatics whom the Democratic party depends so heavily upon.

The message was well received.

Why do Dems always have to run from their labels, and their standarbearers? run run run, but you CAN'T HIDE.

Posted by: David at October 22, 2004 01:46 PM

Why do Dems always have to run from their labels, and their standarbearers? run run run, but you CAN'T HIDE.

Wow, are you ever not paying attention. I'm not a Dem.

I went to see F9/11, and I've seen Bowling for Columbine, and I've read several of Moore's books. He's a bit goofy and irreverant at times, but he's nowhere near the shrieking horror that he's portrayed as by many parties. My favorites are the so-called patriots who denounce him as a traitor, simply because of his thoughts. Which I might understand some places, but you guys are in America, supposedly the cradle of free thought and speech.

But then again, Carter, a not-too-bad liberal president, is regularily chastized in language that I'd reserve for people like Mao Tse-Tung or Stalin, so I guess it's par for the course.

Me, I don't think he's too bad. At least he had some nice things to say about that loon Ann Coulter in his last book.

Posted by: double-plus-ungood at October 22, 2004 01:55 PM

I'm not a Democrat, but I generally vote that way.

So if anyone said to my face that Democrats would vote for Muqtada al Sadr -- a violent Islamic extremists, an enemy of Americans, a killer of Americans -- over George Bush, I would seriously lost my shit and break his head against the nearest wall.

Posted by: Oberon at October 22, 2004 01:58 PM

He's a bit goofy and irreverant at times, but he's nowhere near the shrieking horror that he's portrayed as by many parties.

double,

you just proved my point. End of discussion. That's the last word.

My favorites are the so-called patriots who denounce him as a traitor, simply because of his thoughts.

not his thoughts, his WORDS. When he calls our enemies "minutemen", those words are traitorous. When he calls the American people stupid before a foreign audiece, he's anti-American. He's welcome to speak, of course; it's a free country; but we're also welcome to to call a spade a spade.

Me, I don't think he's too bad. At least he had some nice things to say about that loon Ann Coulter in his last book.

But our loons don't undermine our efforts and give aid and comfort to the enemy. Our loons don't root for the enemiy's "minutemen". Our loons don't slander our country before foreign audiences.

The Dem fringe IS their mainstream.

Posted by: David at October 22, 2004 02:03 PM

Double,
What the hell is a 'social democrat' anyway? Is it a socialist who believes in democracy ( not very centerist!) or is it a Democrat who believes in the redistribution of wealth, like a Socialist? How can a 'social democrat' be centerist? I'm confused on that one. . .

Also, the Left and the MSM annointed Michael Moore, so whether we like it or not he's the face of the Left.

Posted by: MacBoar at October 22, 2004 02:06 PM

you just proved my point. End of discussion. That's the last word.

You need to put that part at the END of your comment, not in front of the aforementioned frothy spittle that erupts when Moore's name is brought up. But I gotta say, there's some mighty good froth following that last word.

Posted by: double-plus-ungood at October 22, 2004 02:13 PM

MacBoar. Sorry, that was a poorly formed phrase. I meant that "Liberal" was a centerist political creed, whereas "Social Democrat" was a leftist one.

As for what "social democracy" is, it's pretty much the belief that socialist aims (economic egalitarianism and all that good stuff) be reached through democratic evolution rather than revolution. The US is pretty much the only indistrialized nation that doesn't have much of a social democratic party, for some reason.

Posted by: double-plus-ungood at October 22, 2004 02:22 PM

double-plus-ungood: Since you are not American, you prove my point. I say bullshit to you.

PS: You could read The Federalist and learn why we have the Electoral College, but you won't so fuck it.

Posted by: Tbone at October 22, 2004 05:35 PM

double-plus-ungood sez:

"The US is pretty much the only indistrialized nation that doesn't have much of a social democratic party, for some reason. "

It's also the richest, fastest-growing, freest, most powerful nation in the world.

Funny coincidence, that.

Posted by: ralph phelan at October 22, 2004 06:33 PM

Ralph:

ZING!

Posted by: Mark Poling at October 23, 2004 10:47 AM

On a slightly more constructive note, Hitchens is one of the most consistently entertaining political writers working today. Even when I don't agree with him, I never question his integrity. He's smart, tenacious, and witty.

One of these days I sincerely hope to be able to buy him a drink.

Posted by: Mark Poling at October 23, 2004 01:50 PM

Ralph -- you're not entirely correct. The USA is the richest and most-powerful country. But China is the fastest growing. And regarding freest, well that depends on the definition of freedom, doesn't it? I happen to think that modestly redistributing wealth in order to fund certain public needs that the private sector does a lousy job of providing for ADDS to our freedoms. I'm sure you would disagree. You probably find Bush's vision of an "ownership society" to be sensible and exciting, while I see it as a vile excuse to keep inner city schoolchildren, middle aged Wal-Mart employees, and elderly poor people in their place. Unlike a lot of leftists, I read a whole lot of people who disagree with me on these issues. They occasionally give me pause on certain specifics, but they haven't convinced me to join them yet.

I'd like to say more about Hitchens, but that'll have to wait. But a point related to this comment I've just made: for an ex-Marxist, Hitchens seems to be extremely uninterested in reducing economic inequality. He practically NEVER talks about it as far as I can tell. I've haven't figured out the reason for this. George Will on the other hand, is very critical of Bush in many ways, but is practically salivating in recent columns over the prospect of another Bush term leading to a level of national debt that will force America to move towards the further dissoulution of government services.

Posted by: markus rose at October 23, 2004 04:33 PM

And regarding freest, well that depends on the definition of freedom, doesn't it?

Heh. Freedom of the press, of assembly, democratic government. You know, stuff like that. Anyway, Freedom House and some other places that I think are pretty non-partisan regularly do surveys about stuff like this, and the US regularly comes out at or near the top. Well above even China! (I know, shocking right.)

It's hilarious that when someone says "freedom" literally the first thing you say is "wealth redistribution". Whatever you think of wealth redistribution, I think it reveals a lot when you list it as a primary attribute of freedom, actually the only attirbute, of freedom. I would think you'd need democracy, a free press, the rule of law etc. to have a free society. So, having the proper marginal tax rates is definitely not sufficient, and it's arguable that it's even necessary.

A more conservative/libertarian perspective, of course, generally acknowledges that the state's confiscation of wealth is in and of itself a blow against freedom (though all but the most out-there libertarians recognize that some of it is going to have to happen.)

Posted by: Eric Deamer at October 23, 2004 07:24 PM

Eric -- The issue of equality, or at least a certain minimum level of affluence for everyone in a country IS of vital importance, since below a certain level of poverty it is impossible for anyone to enjoy or meaningfully exercise whatever freedoms do exist in that country.

That said, I support all of those things that you mention and agree that they too are primary, inescapable components of a free country. Mainland China, obviously, is not free. And as far as I can tell the USA is second to none when it comes to freedom of speech -- British libel laws, for instance, are an outrage to my sensibilities.

Posted by: markus rose at October 23, 2004 08:25 PM

Hitchens is a drunk, and anyone who takes him seriously is a fool.

Posted by: Rico Carty at October 24, 2004 11:11 AM

Hitchens is a drunk, and anyone who takes him seriously is a fool.

Wow, that's so original.

Hitchens was a drunk when he was writing for the Nation too, but he was your GOD back then.

Being a drunk doesn't appear to be a disqualification. Ever heard of Ernest Hemmingway? a drunk. Ray Bradbury? a drunk. Truman Capote, drunk. William Faulkner, drunk. Edgar Allan Poe, drunk.

I could go on.

And what do you have against drunks anyway? I thought you Libs were all for that kind of thing.

Posted by: David at October 24, 2004 02:10 PM

"Hitchens seems to be extremely uninterested in reducing economic inequality."

Maybe in a nation where the poor suffer from obesity instead of malnutrition it seems a bit less urgent.

Let's consider three degrees of redistribution:
US (very little)
Sweden (medium)
Cuba (lots)

I won't even bother asking whether it's better to be 5th percentile poor in the US or 95th percentile rich in Cuba. But even the "happy medium" Sweden turns out to be a failure relative to the US. There was a recent study showing that the median Swedish buying power was a bit below that of the median US Black population. Being at the bottom of the US heap is still better than being in the middle of the heap in democratic-socialist Sweden.

If you're interested in getting poor people the most possible food, clothing, shelter, transportation, computer connectivity, etc., etc., go with free-market capitalism and low taxation.

The only reason to favor redistribution is if you actually prefer the equal poverty of Cuba to the unequal wealth of the US.

Posted by: ralph phelan at October 24, 2004 04:08 PM

Regarding the poster who asked why America has no Socialist party interested in redistributing wealth?

Simple ... it contradicts the American Dream of upward economic/social mobility, which is why folks come here in the first place. If you give up that dream and make the country over into say the UK or Sweden where people have to know their place, live their lives out in the regions they were born in, and never rise above their parent's station in life, then yes you would have irresistible pressure for wealth redistribution.

Americans however prefer to better themselves through employment and a booming economy, this was the genius of Bill Clinton in re-orienting for a while the Democratic Party to meet the aspirations of millions of people who want a better job not more welfare. Particularly since the Democratic Party lost a lot of potential votes when it became viewed as the party of wealth redistribution through endless welfare (often tinged sadly with nasty racial overtones). Sadly no one outside Clinton in my party seems to get that any more.

As for Michael Moore, speaking as a lifelong registered Democrat who voted twice for Bill Clinton (and defended him during impeachment), he's beyond contempt for his un-American words. People who deliberately target children, saw the heads off of Americans, Turks, Filipinos, Nepalese, Brits, etc who are innocent reporters or truck drivers, builders are not patriots or minutemen, they are evil. As evil as Hitler's SS. I'm ashamed that a man who was an honored guest of my Party is rooting for the monsters who blow up our soldiers with IEDs or carbombs to win. But what can you expect for the modern day Leni Riefenstahl, who lionizes Saddam's willing executioners? Those women and children, some still clutching toys, in mass graves weren't killed by Saddam himself. The same folks Moore admires committed atrocity after atrocity.

The Republican Party has Trent Lott, Jesse Helms, and Strom Thurmond. We in our party have Michael Moore, who is trying to single handedly match them for loathesomeness (and racisim, check out his focus on the "jewish" attributes of neocon Wolfowitz ala Nazi propaganda films).

There is a lot seriously wrong with our party, and Moore is a big part of it. He and the other uber-celebrities need to go and the party get back to being the party of the average guy and gal, not pressure groups and rich elites. Don't even get me started on how the West Wing ruined the Democratic Party (by feeding a fantasy instead of the hard work needed for a true ruling party).

Posted by: Jim Rockford at October 24, 2004 11:12 PM

What is it with rightwingers and Sweden?

Sweden is doing just fine. They happen to prefer a slightly different economic system than the US. If free market fundamentalists are so confident in their system, why do they constantly need to reassure themselves by bashing other nations? Did I mention that Sweden is doing just fine?

Posted by: novakant at October 25, 2004 06:28 AM

As a child of the left who grew up in the warm bosom of the Union movement (my parents were Unionists and my Grandfather an early soldier in unionising the coal mines in PA and WV) I can identify with Michael and with Hitchens. (Although, apologies, Michael, but Hitch has held my fascination for a much longer time).

Although I haven't yet made the declaration that I have "left the left" my affiliation has gone from Democrat to Independent (on a test basis) and I am supporting Bush with nose held and fingers crossed. And right now, that is all that I can muster.

My daughter is home for a week from London where she attends school. She attended the European Social Forum last weekend. She described a funny and, for me, absurdly melancholy story about a fight that broke out between the Socialists and a group of Anarchists. The only person injured was a black guy that was just hanging out trying to take a few pictures. Sometimes the left descends so far into so slapstick that I have to close my eyes in embarrassmen. It drives me crazy that these are my people.

My consternation with my party has caused me a huge case of heartburn brought about by friends and family who don't seem to see that our party and our philosophy are going the way of a Marx Brothers movie. Fat on farce, slim on plot.

Posted by: Daniel at October 25, 2004 01:47 PM

This is one of those reasons why I hate the whole left-right dichotomy.

You say you oppose James Dobson. What does that mean? Are you anti-adoption, anti-family-education, pro-child-abuse? I suspect not. What you probably don't like is his anti-gay, pro-religion-in-school side. I too have my own issues with him, but I give him credit where credit is due.

(I'm picking out Dobson as an example. Something similar could likely be said about any of the other people in your list.)

On the flip side, I have nothing but praise for Jimmy Carter's Habitat for Humanity work, and generally consider his election monitoring work to be good for society (though I wonder if they didn't screw up with Chavez). This doesn't mean I endorse his extreme pacifism, or think he was a good President, or think he wasn't duped by the North Koreans as Clinton's envoy.

No one is perfectly correct, or perfectly conformant to some ideology entrance exam. I disagree with everyone I've ever read to some degree. That doesn't make me "right" or them "left" or vice versa; it makes us people with different ideas. Structural differences regarding our world outlook explain only some of our differences, and even that structure that does exist isn't a seesaw with "left" and "right" imprinted on each end.

Moreover, by keeping such distinctions strongly in mind, we alienate potential allies in fights we share common ground on. If you believe in the general relaxation of intellectual property rights, for example, you have potential strong allies in the religious right, who worry about many of the same issues from a slightly different tack. But if all you care about is opposing abstract notions like "the religious right" instead of concrete injustices, then what good are you?

Posted by: Jeff Licquia at October 25, 2004 02:05 PM

in politics words ARE deeds.

LOL! That would explain your support for Bush. His actions are immaterial! Just listen to the words, the tough, visionary words . . . pay no attention to the actions . . .

Posted by: kc at October 25, 2004 05:45 PM

It occurs to me, imperfectly perhaps, that all this talk about left, right, center, radical etc., etc., & etc. is just that talk. The ISSUE today is survival against a fascist foe who really would cut your head off given half the chance. They would kill Moore, Kerry, Bush, me, you our children and grand children. That is today's issue.

Until we call for sacrifice from everyone and make a concerted effort to defeat this foe just as we did Nazism, Tojoism etc., we have a wolf at our door, and he is mighty hungry.

Posted by: GMRoper at October 25, 2004 08:02 PM

What I most dislike is being treated like a ping pong ball, my senses affronted by all extremes.

(Yes, I know. Not even the ping pong ball is an original metaphor. Possibly that's because there are so many of us.)

Posted by: Steve at October 25, 2004 10:56 PM

There is an area of the world where the liberal consensus reigns and prosperity is the norm--Continental Europe. But I think that few would honestly argue that, say, Germany or France, with structural unemployment rates of 10% or more, very low birth rates, and a demographic timebomb ticking away, were more vital, prosperous, or dynamic societies.

Who is more open to immigrants, the U.S. or Germany? Which country has more social mobility, the U.S. or France? Which side of the Atlantic incorporates minorities into the fabric of its society with less fuss and resistance?

Posted by: Daniel Calto at October 26, 2004 01:58 PM

Yeah.

You have joined the right.

But that "mendacious" looks stunning pinned to your shiny lapel.

Posted by: Spudnuts at October 26, 2004 11:54 PM

The vast bulk of the previous comments are moot, since Hitchens has gone over to "the dark side" and apparently endorsed Kerry.

On Oct 21 he supported Bush at "The Nation".
http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20041108&s=hitchens (Bush)
Today, Oct 26 he support Kerry at "Slate Magazine"
http://slate.msn.com/id/2108714/ (Kerry)

I'd like to hear an elaboration on why he's changed his mind.

Posted by: Ted B. at October 27, 2004 11:36 AM

Ted B. -- he's endorsing Kerry because he wants Democrats to get serious about foreign policy. Which they will have to do if they want to run the Pentagon and also run for reelection in 2008.

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Posted by: usr at November 22, 2007 06:19 PM
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