October 07, 2004
Kerry-Haters for Kerry
Are you going to vote for John Kerry even though you find him unpleasant, annoying, arrogant, waffling, misguided, or just generally unappealing in some profound way? Then you've come to the right place! We're Kerry Haters for Kerry -- perhaps his largest constituency! No need to hide in the Kerryhating closet anymore while you pretend to everyone that he'll be a great president. Here you are among friends.I'm almost a Kerry-hater for Kerry. I tried talking myself into being a Kerry-hater for Kerry. But I couldn't quite do it.
They have some great bumper stickers over there for those of you who understand where I'm coming from but plan to vote for him anyway.
(Hat tip: Instapundit.)
Posted by Michael J. Totten at October 7, 2004 11:17 PMAnd then there is this.....The Michigan GOP calling for the prosecutors of 4 counties to arrest Michael Moore for violating Michigan Election Laws. He is bribing college students to get them to vote.
Posted by: Cathy at October 7, 2004 11:40 PM"He is bribing college students to get them to vote."
And offering underwear to do it, wasn't he? Obviously he doesn't know college students. Beer would get them to vote away their own suffrage...
Posted by: FH at October 8, 2004 12:01 AMYou have to admit that Kerry is talented:
http://www.pixeltrip.com/whoknew/archives/000576.html
Hey Cathy, Boo-frickin-hoo. There's always been contests, etc. to get students to vote. I remember in 2002, a student group at Indiana University gave away a car at voter registration drives. However, they got in trouble when they started saying things like "vote for better education" and stuff like that. Hell, I got pizza and a button for registering my change of address this year. Get over it. What Moore did was nothing new, unless you're somehow charging that he was trading underwear for a vote for Kerry.
Moore is an asshole, but if he can get a few college students to vote, more power to him.
Posted by: Greg at October 8, 2004 01:01 AMI find nothing humorous in anyone voting for John Kerry, a man who is wimpy on national defense. Our nation’s enemies will celebrate if George W. Bush is defeated. A vote for Kerry is a vote for the terrorists. Am I exaggerating? Aren’t my comments a bit over the top? Not in the slightest. If anything, I’m being overly cautious with my rhetoric.
Posted by: David Thomson at October 8, 2004 02:55 AMThank you thank you thank you, Michael.
This site is sooooooo for me.
Posted by: Grant McEntire at October 8, 2004 03:24 AMMike,
How close is Oregon going to be this election? I'm specifically concerned about absentee ballots; I'm active duty military and a legal resident of Oregon, casting my vote via absentee ballot. I received my ballot and voted about three weeks ago, and this ballot had Ralph Nader on the ticket. All well and good; I put my ballot in the mail the next day. Last week I get another ballot, this one without Nader and a letter stating his name had been put on the original ballot in error and that a judge had ruled him ineligable for inclusion. The letter said I could vote again if I had originally voted for Nader, but if I hadn't to please disregard! Neato, I get two votes! Kidding, of course; my parents did something right and I destroyed my "second" ballot. It would have been quite easy for me to vote twice, however. Is anything being mentioned in the Oregonian or anywhere about this?
I hope the underwear Moore peddled was pre-shat in because that is what many Kerry supporters will do if Bush is victorious. It will save them the hassle; since they're not using their brains, why use bowels?
Posted by: Deuce at October 8, 2004 06:35 AMIs there a website for "Tired Of Bush's Misuse of The English Language Supporters For Bush?" I might join that group.
Posted by: The Lapsed Randian at October 8, 2004 06:44 AMKerry haters have to be a marginal demographic. Bush haters on the other hand are legion, and that cuts both ways. Bush inspires as much loyalty among his supporters as rancor among his detractors but Kerry is as inspiring as tofu. Filler without flavor.
Posted by: Zacek at October 8, 2004 06:46 AMI don't know, Zacek. I'm more supportive of Bush than Michael is, but if I weren't I'd vote 3rd party this year. I see Kerry as the second coming of Jimmy Carter, and while the nation would survive I don't think it would be pretty.
Posted by: Mark Poling at October 8, 2004 07:19 AMGreg, I'm not charging he was trading underware for Kerry votes but I sure bet the Michigan GOP thinks he was...Lets see here...He's the film maker of F-11, he HATES Bush, he's on a National tour giving speeches about "throwing" Bushes ass out of office. Why, it would be a damn fool to think he is trying to buy Kerry votes!
Is giving away Pizza for registering your new address against the law? I don't think so Greg. Bribing votes for a National Presidential election, however, is!
Posted by: Cathy at October 8, 2004 07:25 AMOregon is going for Kerry:
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/Oregon_Fall%202004.htm
Posted by: Brad Williams at October 8, 2004 07:28 AMCathy, MM is too much the buffoon and his vote-buying stunt shouldn't be taken seriously; it's the electoral equivalent of seltzer down your pants on the vaudeville circuit.
Mark Poling, yeah, understand what you say, I voted third party in 2000 but don't consider a protest vote such as that to be desireable or affordable this year. The Second Coming of Carter --- the sanctimonious Baptist Bigmouth returning in the form of the sanctimonious patrician Kerry --- gives me the heebie jeebies, big-time.
Posted by: Zacek at October 8, 2004 07:34 AMWhat a funny site. (Though my favorite is still www.pleasureboatcaptainsfortruth.com)
The satire is instructive -- Bush has so completely screwed up our war on terrorism, our national security, our fiscal situation, etc., that even some people who hate Kerry (like my father, who hasn't voted Democrat in my lifetime) are voting for him anyway Kerry. Remarkable.
Posted by: Oberon at October 8, 2004 08:21 AMDavid Thomson: Our nation’s enemies will celebrate if George W. Bush is defeated. A vote for Kerry is a vote for the terrorists.
Yeah, and Bush=Hitler. Get over yourself. Talk to some Democrats once in a while who are real people instead of online pixels.
Posted by: Michael J. Totten at October 8, 2004 08:58 AMRickW: The letter said I could vote again if I had originally voted for Nader, but if I hadn't to please disregard! Neato, I get two votes! Kidding, of course; my parents did something right and I destroyed my "second" ballot. It would have been quite easy for me to vote twice, however. Is anything being mentioned in the Oregonian or anywhere about this?
First I've heard of it.
But you know, you have to sign your ballot and put your address on it. If you were to actually vote twice you could easily go to jail. Those ballots have your name printed on them, so you can't exactly forge someone else's name. At least that's how our usual mail-in ballots work. I don't know about the absentee ballots, though, because I'm a resident.
Posted by: Michael J. Totten at October 8, 2004 09:01 AMOberon: my kindest regards to your father. But I strongly suspect this year will find more lifelong Democrats voting for Bush than lifelong Republicans voting for Kerry. That of course is based primarily on hunch, and I'm sure you would say wishful thinking, whistling past the graveyard, etc, but I would adduce Zell Miller, Ed Koch, Roger L. Simon, Ron Silver, the only names I can drop off the top of my head.
Posted by: Zacek at October 8, 2004 09:08 AM"Yeah, and Bush=Hitler. Get over yourself. Talk to some Democrats once in a while who are real people instead of online pixels."
What does your reply have to do with my remarks? I am very confused. Who is talking about Democrats? Please explain.
Posted by: David Thomson at October 8, 2004 09:41 AMI don't hate John Kerry, but I'm much closer to hate than to like.
I'm more of a McCain/Bayh/Hagel/Edwards/Chafee/Lieberman supporter for Kerry, as opposed to a McCain/Bayh/Hagel/Edwards/Chafee/Lieberman supporter for Bush. I supported Edwards in the primaries.
So, in a manner reminiscent of Ghengis Khan, I'm probably going to ransack my polling station and vote for JFK. But to know that I'm making the same decision - albeit based on totally different criteria - than the likes of Michael Moore, Janeane Garafalo, and that genocidal prick who lives down the street from me and drives a geo prism with a "CaterKiller" and a "Stop Sharon's War" bumper sticker literally makes me sick to my stomach.
Posted by: SoCalJustice at October 8, 2004 10:31 AMDavid Thomson: I am very confused.
Apparently so.
You said: "A vote for Kerry is a vote for the terrorists," and then you ask me what that has to do with Democrats? Give me a break!
Posted by: Michael J. Totten at October 8, 2004 10:41 AMZacek -- you may be right. I saw the article by Pres. Eisenhower's son about why he's voting Dem for the first time ever, but that's just one guy.
Has anyone seen a poll which counts the former Bush voters who are for Kerry, and former Gore voters who are for Bush?
Posted by: Oberon at October 8, 2004 10:42 AMAbsentee ballots come with two envelopes. The pre-paid-postage one has a spot for your signature, and also has your name and address printed on it. You also have a "secrecy" envelope. Your ballot goes in the secrecy envelope; it's completely anonymous.
It would have been very easy to vote twice for whichever candidate I chose (unless it was Nader, of course).
RickW,
I see. That is a problem, then.
Those of us who live here only get one ballot, though. You got yours early, hence you got two since Nader was later taken off.
Posted by: Michael J. Totten at October 8, 2004 11:22 AM“You said: ‘A vote for Kerry is a vote for the terrorists,’ and then you ask me what that has to do with Democrats? Give me a break!”
Fair enough. A clarification on my part is indeed required. I can see how my earlier comments might cause some confusion. A vote for John Kerry is unwittingly a vote for the terrorists. I’m sure that Democrats are not consciously assisting the terrorists. Their actions are indeed inadvertent---and not even slightly deliberate. Roger Simon linked to the “Anchoress” earlier today:
“And when I see her, an icy fear grips me. Because I keep thinking...if these men are elected into office on November 2 - or on whatever date Election 2004 is finally decided after however many lawsuits and riots it takes to settle the question to the Democrats liking - if these two men are elected...we're going to see this woman and her hijab again. And we won't have to wait to be attacked to see her.
She'll be dancing on the streets again, on November 3rd, or November 4th, rejoicing in the defeat of George W. Bush.”
http://theanchoress.blogspot.com/2004/10/woman-in-black-hijab.html
Our enemies will almost certainly perceive a Bush defeat as a victory for their side.
Posted by: David Thomson at October 8, 2004 04:47 PMDavid Thompson,
I have enough respect for my vote (and the power of that vote), to base it ENITRELY on what I think is necessary and important. I refuse to give terrorists any acknowledgement that I care what they think.
They want to change our world, so I refuse to let thme change mine. Terrorists may be able to destroy some Americans, but we can stop them from destroying the liberty, respect and freedom that are the American way of life. September 11 changed the world, because we chose to let it change the world.
I would be willing to die in the next terrorist attack, if it meant that America would choose to uphold freedom, democracy and respect for their fellow Americans views and opinions. Call me idelogical, but when I say 'Give me liberty, or give me death', I mean it. Liberty doesn't back down and cower when threatened and Liberty is never willing to sacrifice 'some' freedom for security.
So I say Fie on your Terrorists! I say Fie on your attempt to demean any American who exercises their right to vote for whomever they choose.
You sir, disgust me.
Ratatosk, Squirrel of Discord
Posted by: Ratatosk, Squirrel of Discord at October 8, 2004 05:17 PMDear Ratatosk, Squirrel of Discord,
I just found this Charles Krauthammer column:
http://www.townhall.com/columnists/charleskrauthammer/printck20041008.shtml
Karuthammer agrees with me---and therefore he is a very brilliant man. I will answer your objections more thoroughly tomorrow. Why not tonight? The debate will start in a few minutes---and I am also feeling the effects of my third shot of vodka. Hey, this is Friday night! Have a nice evening.
Posted by: David Thomson at October 8, 2004 05:47 PMDavid,
I've read that.
My point is that I refuse to give the Terrorists the power to do anything about MY vote. I will vote for Kerry or Bush, based on issues and my personal feelings. To throw up the ghost of 'If you do that the terrorists win', especially in reference to an individuals personal vote, is, in my opinion, disrespectful in the extreme.
I understand what your saying. I disagree with your decision to say it.
Posted by: Ratatosk, Squirrel of Discord at October 8, 2004 06:05 PMTosk: I understand what your saying. I disagree with your decision to say it.
I find myself agreeing with both of you, and I think that's a great answer. If John Kerry were campaigning on a platform of appeasement, I would argue with you about this. But he isn't, so I won't.
Posted by: Michael J. Totten at October 8, 2004 07:02 PMEven if he were spouting appeasment... I would not support someone trying to 'scare' their fellow citizen into changing their vote.
Fear, Uncertianty and Doubt is unbecoming any American.
Posted by: Ratatosk, Squirrel of Discord at October 8, 2004 07:35 PM“To throw up the ghost of 'If you do that the terrorists win', especially in reference to an individuals personal vote, is, in my opinion, disrespectful in the extreme.”
You do indeed have an abstractly valid point. Still, you are conveniently ignoring the practical results of your position. You can slice and dice it anyway you want---but at the end of the day the Islamic fascists will celebrate the defeat of President George W. Bush. It will encourage them to commit further outrages. Am I being “disrespectful” for pointing out the obvious? I don’t think so.
Posted by: David Thomson at October 9, 2004 06:23 AM"Our enemies will almost certainly perceive a Bush defeat as a victory for their side."
I'm going to take this as a given.
Tosk sez:
"I refuse to give terrorists any acknowledgement that I care what they think."
I agree with Tosk in the sense that I wouldn't change my vote either to please a terrorist or to piss one off. As he says, we should make the best choice possible based on the information we have.
But I do care what they think in another sense - it's part of the information I'm going to base my decision on. If the terrorists have a strong consensus that a Kerry victory would serve their interests, isn't there a good chance that they're right?
Assuming the terrorists are smart and well informed enough to know what is or is not in their best interest, the fact that they want Kerry is a good reason not to give them Kerry.
Posted by: ralph phelan at October 11, 2004 12:26 PMWhy would anyone vote for a dry drunk with the lowest IQ of any president recorded, who is married to a Stepford wife and whose mother looks like a cross dresser? If God told him to kill Iraquis, should he not be classified as mentally disturbed (hearing voices)? By the way, why hasn't anyone done psychological profile on this obviously mentally disturbed dry drunk who committed the same crime as Martha who sits in jail while he is allowed to roam free. He needs to be committed to a n institution other than the one he is in. Pox on him.
Posted by: Nicole Porter at October 12, 2004 09:32 AMRalph,
Sorry for the late reply, I didn't see your comment until now.
Assuming the terrorists are smart and well informed enough to know what is or is not in their best interest, the fact that they want Kerry is a good reason not to give them Kerry.
Firstly, Ralph, you're assuming. Assuming is rarely a good way to judge the facts. Secondly, what you're assuming, is that the Terrorists are Assuming (hey assume that Kerry will be weak on Terror).
Let me give you a different set of equally applicable (and equally 'Assumed') assumptions:
1. Terrorists will attack the United States at some point in the future, probably during the next Presidential term. I think we can all agree on this assumption.
2. Kerry is intelligent to also assume Assumption 1.
3. If Kerry is in any way 'soft' on Terrorism, the republicans will have his head come the next 9/11.
4. If 3 happens, the democratic party might as well give up on the White House for a good couple decades.
5. If all the above assumptions are true, then the only option there is for Kerry is to be Extremely tough on terror, so that when the attack comes (and we all think it will) he wil have his backside covered with bulletproof undies.
Based on those assumptions, a vote for Kerry is a vote for tough action against terror.
But, they're all just assumptions.
And assumptions are just guesses.
Posted by: Tosk at October 13, 2004 10:47 AMIf the terrorists have a strong consensus that a Kerry victory would serve their interests, isn't there a good chance that they're right?
Have "the terrorists" started putting out ads saying that terrorist supporters should vote for Kerry? What possible evidence is there to think they think that?
It's an entirely made-up story.
Probably "the terrorists" are as confused as everybody else who's paying attention. I can see it now.
Ahmed: Look, Kerry is going to pull the US troops out of iraq. We win. That's good.
Ishmael: Kerry will pull out the US troops from iraq. He's going to use everything he frees up going after us. That's bad.
Gilan: Kerry isn't going to pull out any troops. He's going to keep them in there to prove he's tougher than Bush. Bush is the one who'll carpet-bomb iraqi cities to get ready for elections, and then declare victory and go home. We want Kerry in there keeping the troops in iraq and getting us support.
Naif: You guys are talking stupid. Both parties and both candidates are controlled by jewish wall street bankers. Why do you think there's any difference between them? It would be silly for us to try to influence US puppet elections. Our job is to defeat the USA.
Assuming the terrorists are smart and well informed enough to know what is or is not in their best interest, the fact that they want Kerry is a good reason not to give them Kerry.
Here's why I think this is a stupid position. You are assuming the terrorists are smarter and better informed than you are.
That's after you assume you know what they think.
But if the terrorists were as smart as you and as informed as you, they wouldn't be terrorists.
HTH
Posted by: J Thomas at October 13, 2004 10:39 PM"Assuming the terrorists are smart and well informed enough to know what is or is not in their best interest, the fact that they want Kerry is a good reason not to give them Kerry."
a) No one is smart enough or well informed enough to know what current action will lead to their best interests in the future, since that would require omniscience.
b) Millions of intelligent and well informed people plan to vote for Kerry. I doubt that the terrorists are smarter and better informed than every one of them, but you don't seem to be considering them in your thinking.
c) The whole thing adds up to a fallacious argument from authority.
d) The terrorists might prefer a human over an alien invader intent on enslaving the human race, but that doesn't mean that we should give them the alien invader. Likewise they might prefer someone who isn't a madman who will destroy the planet over someone who is, but that doesn't mean we should give them the madman. Again, the reasoning is fallacious. If Bush is preferable, that should be decided on independent grounds.
e) "the fact that they want Kerry" is not an established fact, making the whole argument a matter of blatant question begging. It's worth noting that they attacked us during Bush's presidency, suggesting that they wanted Bush. Specifically, Osama bin notSaddam said that he wanted a global war between East and West, and Bush obliged. Virtually everything ObL has said and everything Bush has done strongly suggests that Bush is exactly the sort of person ObL wants in the White House.
f) There's an underlying assumption that the person making the argument is smart enough and well informed enough to be able to tie his own shoes, let alone evaluate geopolitical outcomes, which is not at all clear.
Posted by: ts at October 17, 2004 10:04 PMGood-bye. I am leaving because I am bored.
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