October 04, 2004

John Kerry, Neoconservative

William Safire at the New York Times says John Kerry transformed himself into a "hard-line, right-wing, unilateral" neoconservative. I wouldn't go that far, but he makes some good points. Whatever Kerry's faults, he is not the second coming of George McGovern. Really, he isn't.

Posted by Michael J. Totten at October 4, 2004 09:42 AM
Comments

Safire raises a good point -- if Bush refuses to have talks with North Korea unless China and other nations are present, does that mean Bush has given China a veto over our national security?

('course, Safire puts it the other way, criticizing Kerry for a go-it-alone policy on North Korea.)

Posted by: Oberon at October 4, 2004 09:47 AM

No, the Democats would be better off if he was the second coming of McGovern. McGovern, at least, didn't change his positions more often than I change my socks.

Posted by: Bithead at October 4, 2004 10:18 AM

What Bithead said.

Posted by: Eric Blair at October 4, 2004 10:23 AM

Micheal,

He wasn't the second coming of McGovern before he became the second coming of McGovern.

More to the point, George McGovern was a B-17 pilot who actually committed the atrocities he apologized for later.

Kerry engages in pointless vacillations, in a manner reminiscent of Kublai Khan...

Posted by: Patrick Lasswell at October 4, 2004 10:28 AM

I'd use another word instead of "transforming". He's simply lying.

Kerry is often portrayed as inconsistent, as if he couldn't make up his mind about things, and going with whatever seems popular at the moment. It is a mistake to see him like this.

Kerry is quite consistent. He is just, bottom line, a virulent left winger, and he supports everything that goes along with that. Sometimes his votes are against the tide, such as when he voted against the first Gulf War, etc., to support the goals of this world-view.

So when he appears to be hawkish, or pro-military, or saying he'll put America's sovereignty ahead of the UN, he's just plain not tellin the truth. The plan is to dupe enough middle-of-the-road people, yet keep "his base" from believing he sold out. This is what his see-sawing is all about. Wear an army jacket while throwing away your medals.

A similar strategy worked for Clinton, so who can blame him?

Posted by: Annonomo at October 4, 2004 10:32 AM

If you can't say something good about the cannidate, he must be from the other party.

Kerry has his drawbacks, but were the right wing fruitcakes to be believed, this man has no good qualities at all, he is the next Facist Leader.

Bush has his drawbacks, but were the left-wing nutjobs to be believed, this man has no good qualities at all, he is the current Facist World Leader.

See both parties are a lot closer than they think. They both use hatred and vitrol instead of discussion to justify their world.

Ah well, the more you all hate, the more Chaos reigns, and the more fun I'll have in the end.

Riding the Tsunami to November!

Tosk

Posted by: D Clyde at October 4, 2004 10:35 AM

Forget neocon Kerry! What's a grammar maven like Saffire doing dreaming up a monstrous neologism like "out-hawkishing?"

William Safire: Neolog

Posted by: Browning at October 4, 2004 10:51 AM

Safire is just making stuff up. I don't see it at all. Kerry is simply trying to balance the anti and pro-war factions in his party by using hawkish phrases followed by 'but' and dovish phrases. If someone wants to support Kerry they'll just hear whichever side of the 'but' they want to hear.

Posted by: Syl at October 4, 2004 11:44 AM

"Kerry engages in pointless vacillations, in a manner reminiscent of Kublai Khan..."

Now that's clever. Don't think it went unnoticed.

If only Kerry would decree a pleasure dome once in a while maybe we wouldn't be so hard on him.

Posted by: Jeremy Brown at October 4, 2004 12:24 PM

Kerry is smarter than McGovern - he's not as straightforward about his pacifism. Pacifism doesn't win elections or friends in America, but it does win friends abroad.

According to a poll sponsored by worldpeace.org, (sponsors of the World's Biggest Hug for Peace) if pacifists around the world could vote for our president, they'd elect John Kerry. Ralph Nader would be a very close second, followed by Kucinich and the Green Party's David Cobb. Bush would be last.

Kerry knows that he can talk tough while relying on the international community to provide an excuse for perpetual inaction. They love him almost as much as they love Jimmy Carter.

Posted by: mary at October 4, 2004 12:54 PM

I can't speak for all of the right-wing, but I'm not personally worried about Kerry turning into the next 'Fascist Leader'. I'm worried that he is a man who would try to leave Iraq in the next six months--which is likely to set us back in the War on Terror for years by reinforcing the "bloody the Americans and they capitulate" myth which is so popular in the Middle East.

Kerry talks tough and in the same debate pretends he can pull a significant amount of troops in the next six months. (At least) one of those two positions is a lie.

Posted by: Sebastian Holsclaw at October 4, 2004 01:36 PM

Kerry's major problem is that he's had so many positions that even when he says the right things there's a real tendency to just wait for the wind to shift.

My major problem with Kerry is that I don't trust him not to cut and run from the Middle East. We have a fundamental problem with the fundamentalists there, and simply attempting to buy off the worst of them didn't turn out to be what you'd call a rousing success. Talking about giving the mullahs fissile material to see what they'd do with it gives me the willies.

My minor problem with voting for Kerry is that, if the excrement hits the fan, I don't know which way he would jump. He shoots from the hip, and that bothers me. All this talk about Cowboy Bush leaves me scratching my head; Kerry is the guy who beached his boat so he could run down an armed man on foot to personally deliver a coup de grace. And he's proud of that. I'm just not sure about the guy's impulse control.

Would he be a catastrophe as President? No worse than Carter, I'd think, but that was bad enough.

Four more years.

Posted by: Mark Poling at October 4, 2004 02:17 PM

MJT,

Whatever Kerry's faults, he is not the second coming of George McGovern. Really, he isn't.

You're right. Its even worse. John Kerry is the second coming of...John Kerry.

The 1970's John Kerry who advocated putting the US military under UN control is the same John Kerry who today wants US national security to pass a global test.

The 1980's John Kerry who advocated unilateral disarmament is the same John Kerry today who wants to unilaterally cancel the bunker buster nuke.

I'd take McGovern in a heartbeat over John Kerry. At least he was honest. He wouldn't be running around lying through his teeth in order to fool gullible people into believing he was something other than what he was.

Posted by: MJT at October 4, 2004 02:31 PM

MTJ,

Can I ask a favor? Please don't post using my initials. Use your first name or something. That way your posts won't be confused with mine. Thanks!

Posted by: Michael J. Totten at October 4, 2004 03:25 PM

I meant to type "MJT" in the post above, not MTJ.

Posted by: Michael J. Totten at October 4, 2004 03:26 PM

Safire is trying to make Kerry sound like a hawkish neo-con so that the NYT editorial board will support Bush ... duh!

Posted by: Terry Sutton at October 4, 2004 04:00 PM

Safire artfully reveals Kerry’s ambition to become a more respected and tougher-cowboy leader of hand-wringing-coalitions of fraudulent-countries united in supporting “wrong wars at wrong times”.

Posted by: d-rod at October 4, 2004 04:19 PM

MJT,

Can I ask a favor? Please don't post using my initials. Use your first name or something. That way your posts won't be confused with mine. Thanks!

Ooops. That was me. Sorry.

Posted by: HA at October 4, 2004 05:42 PM

It's something that can't really hurt him. The democratic base, as they are so organized, are so completely partisan and 'rah rah' right now that they will support him almost no matter what he says. As for the swings and undecideds, it can't really hurt him. The Dem strategists, at least the Carville-Begaliayte New Dems, have been saying that you have to attack from the right as well as the left. His gripe (and mine) with Bush and the war is one of mis-management. I

t seems instead of arguments dealing with logistics and some monday morning quarterbacking, he seems to be going for the jugular, that Bush is too soft and can't prevent Islamists, eager to fight jihad from crossing the borders. Obviously politician speak but it may have some effect.

Posted by: Epitome at October 4, 2004 06:42 PM

Tosk,

If you can't say something good about the cannidate, he must be from the other party.

Why should people who despise either candidate pretend otherwise?

There is nothing good to say about John Kerry. He is the most loathesome person to run for President since George Wallace. But there is a key difference between Kerry and Wallace. Wallace eventually renounced his segrationist views apologised for them. John Kerry has never apologised for what he said and did back in the '70s. And his record since indicates that he is still the same man he was back then.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Wallace

When John Kerry apologises for smearing Vietnam vets, and unlawfully meeting with the Vietnamese Communist leadership and advocating unconditional acceptence of their surrender terms that would have left the POW's at their torturers mercy, then maybe we should forgive him. Maybe then we can look for something good about him. But until that happens, John Kerry is unfit to be President.

See both parties are a lot closer than they think. They both use hatred and vitrol instead of discussion to justify their world.

I've noticed a tendency of yours to reach for moral equivalence. If you're comment was sincere, why do you even bother voting?

Posted by: HA at October 4, 2004 06:45 PM

HA, You are absolutely right in all that you say! I'm appalled by the number of people who seemingly care so little about what this man did to the Military! It is disgusting beyond words. I can only think that they had no close connections with that era and have chosen to remain ignorant of it.

And now John Kerry seems to be reaching outside the "GLOBE." Today while speaking with a CNN reporter he made the remark "Not only inside the Globe, but elsewhere!" What? Is he now communicating with ETs? Does he even realize that he makes these type remarks? The man gets freakier by the day!

Posted by: Cathy at October 4, 2004 07:01 PM

Cathy,

What? Is he now communicating with ETs?

Maybe he'll propose a new Department of Wellness for Stranded Space Aliens. Because, "W" stands for wrong and it is wrong that space aliens who only come to our planet to find a better way of life should be denied access to adequate health care. It also wrong to expect stranded space aliens to break free from the the shackles of the heartless capitalist system and return to their home planet without government assistance.

Posted by: HA at October 4, 2004 07:29 PM

"When John Kerry apologises for smearing Vietnam vets, and unlawfully meeting with the Vietnamese Communist leadership and advocating unconditional acceptence of their surrender terms that would have left the POW's at their torturers mercy, then maybe we should forgive him."

When did he 'smear' the Vietnam vets?

As for the Paris meetings, Is there a quote you can dig somewhere that he would 'accept' their surrender terms and acknowledged leaving behind POWs?

Posted by: Epitome at October 4, 2004 07:48 PM

Kerry is at heart a seventies-eighties left of center Democrat. Although he sometimes tacked center on issues like trade and welfare reform, in issues of national security and foreign policy, he is what he has always been. The man of Vietnam. He is the man who voted to oppose the '91 Gulf War, the one who called the rescue of Grenada the bullying of a tiny third world nation and met with the Communist leadership of Nicaragua. I see no evidence that his views have changed at all. As far as his flip flopping, what is clear is that he is not only a left winger but a craven left winger who will say or do anything to gain votes. So he pretended to be a hawk when it looked like that was the popular thing to do and attacked the consistent Howard Dean. Later, when things got tough, he switched tactics and now IS Howard Dean. We cannot have someone like him in the White House now. We just cannot. I wish to God that Bush were more articulate. But he is who we are stuck with.

Posted by: Doug at October 4, 2004 08:06 PM

Epitome,

Kerry's senate testimony:

http://www.nationalreview.com/document/kerry200404231047.asp

They told the stories at times they had personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, tape wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the country side of South Vietnam in addition to the normal ravage of war, and the normal and very particular ravaging which is done by the applied bombing power of this country.

Kerry is referring to the Winter Soldier investigation which has now been well documented as a fraud. So if Kerry's smears were fabricated, where did they come from? The KGB:

http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/pacepa200402260828.asp

The VVAW was tied to the Communist Party of the USA at least though Al Hubbard as documented in Kerry's FBI files:

http://www.americanthinker.com/articles.php?article_id=3820

This is the likely transmission path of Kerry's war crimes testimony: KGB to CPUSA to VVAW to John Kerry.

I have been to Paris. I have talked with both delegations at the peace talks, that is to say the Democratic Republic of Vietnam and the Provisional Revolutionary Government and of all eight of Madam Binh's points it has been stated time and time again, and was stated by Senator Vance Hartke when he returned from Paris, and it has been stated by many other officials of this Government, if the United States were to set a date for withdrawal the prisoners of war would be returned.

I think this negates very clearly the argument of the President that we have to maintain a presence in Vietnam, to use as a negotiating block for the return of those prisoners. The setting of a date will accomplish that.

Kerry is clearly stating here that we should accept the Vietnamese terms and that we don't need to maintain a presence in South Vietnam in order to secure the return of our POW's, as Nixon stated.

The Boston Globe confirmed that Madame Binh's proposal stated that the POW's would be returned AFTER the US withdrawal:

Madam Nguyen Thi Binh was a leader of the group and had a list of peace-talk points, including the suggestion that US prisoners of war would be released when American forces withdrew.

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2004/03/25/kerry_spoke_of_meeting_negotiators_on_vietnam/

Posted by: HA at October 4, 2004 08:58 PM

Oddly enough, Kerry reminds me, in a strange sort of way, of Senator Joe McCarthy. I mean "tailgunner" Joe McCarthy. Vietnam anyone?

Posted by: chuck at October 4, 2004 08:59 PM

The comments here are unusually rabid. Kerry has certainly been inconsistent, but do you really trust Bush more to protect the country? Why? Honestly, do you posters think Kerry will sell the farm to the islamofacsists if he's elected?

Posted by: chopperdave at October 4, 2004 11:02 PM

I don't know what the hell William Safire is talking about. Kerry did what anyone with a basic limited knowledge of electoral politics should have expected him to do and tried to outflank Bush from the Right a little. It's not rocket-science, it's what Kennedy did in 1960 with the "missile gap" to win the Presidency. And it works.

That William Safire is so shocked and amazed by this quite frankly shocks and amazes me. This is called Producing an Attention Grabbing Headline and trying to write a story around it, I think.

Posted by: Grant McEntire at October 5, 2004 12:06 AM

Grant,

That William Safire is so shocked and amazed by this quite frankly shocks and amazes me.

I think Safire's shock is that anybody actually believes John Kerry has had an epiphany. Kerry's supporters close their eyes to this version of Kerry because they know he is lying.

Posted by: HA at October 5, 2004 03:26 AM

John Kerry doesn't sound like a neocon here:

Iran also presents an obvious and especially difficult challenge. Our relations there are burdened by a generation of distrust, by the threat of nuclear proliferation and by reports of al Qaeda forces in that country, including the leadership responsible for the May 13th bombings in Saudi Arabia.

But the Bush administration stubbornly refuses to conduct a realistic, non-confrontational policy with Iran, even where it may be possible, as we witnessed most recently in the British-French-German initiative.

As president, I will be prepared early on to explore areas of mutual interest with Iran, just as I was prepared to normalize relations with Vietnam a decade ago. Iran has long expressed an interest in cooperating against the Afghan drug trade. That is one starting point. And just as we have asked that Iran turn over al Qaeda members who are there, the Iranians have looked to us for help in dealing with Iraq-based terrorists who threaten them. It is incomprehensible and unacceptable that this administration refuses to broker an arrangement with Iran for a mutual crackdown on both terrorist groups.

http://www.cfr.org/campaign2004/pub6576/john_kerry/making_america_secure_again:_setting_the_right_course_for_foreign_policy.php

Via JustOneMinute:

http://justoneminute.typepad.com/main/2004/10/iranian_ministr.html#more

Posted by: HA at October 5, 2004 04:33 AM

I still have no idea exactly who is John F. Kerry. Is he an everybody's nobody?

That said, I do know the nature of this war is far above Kerry's comprehension.

Posted by: syn at October 5, 2004 06:14 AM

do you posters think Kerry will sell the farm to the islamofacsists if he's elected

I believe that Kerry has the potential to become the next Jimmy Carter. Jimmy Carter peacefully watched as the Islamofascists took Americans hostage and installed their thugocracy in Iran. He currently runs a charitable organization that accepts millions of dollars of donations from the Islamofascist Saudi Royals and the bin Laden family. Carter’s charitable organization is also peacefully watching the Islamofascist slaughter in Dafur.

I believe that Kerry represents the will of the majority of Democrats, 51% of whom believe that Americans could have, in some way, motivated the 9/11 attacks.

17% of Republicans believe that Americans motivated the 9/11 attacks. I don’t agree with the way that Bush has handled the war in Iraq, but I think that Kerry & the Democrats' Carteresque pacifism is not what the country needs right now.

Posted by: mary at October 5, 2004 06:56 AM

Well, I'm British, a Blairite and We're much less concerned about a Kerry Presidency, then a Bush second term. However, whoever is in the WH will defend America. Full stop. If its Kerry he might also throw us a bone on global warming, if its Bush we expect more of the last four years, i.e. grand rectoric, grubby reality that is miles away from the former.

LOok, being in the office of the Presidency chnages the lucky man/woman. They grow, they develop. Look at Bush, he has grown from serious ineptitude to mild ineptitude and he can give some killer speeches (shame about the reality). The same process will go for Kerry, if he wins, this good decent man, will defend America, that I have no doubt.

My second point is, and its a genuine question, if we are your staunchiest allies (which I think we have proved pretty convincingly) why is it such a one way street? Can anyone tell me what we have got from this alliance post September 11th?

On the Israeli/Palestinian Conflict?
On Global Warming?
The ICC?
Trade?
Sustainable Development?
Global Energy Policy?

We have given the Bush WH whatever it wants and there is a growing body of serious foreign policy thought in the UK that we are sick of being the US's Usefull Idiots as we get nothing back.

Even the Conservatives here dislike Bush et al for that. Like I said I consider myself a Blairite Atlanticist but really over here some serious quid pro quo is required and soon.
We are becoming v v v restless Allies.

Posted by: Neil W at October 5, 2004 08:31 AM

If you can't say something nice....

OK... He's got better hair.

Happy now?

Posted by: Bithead at October 5, 2004 08:38 AM

"Whatever Kerry's faults, he is not the second coming of George McGovern."

Well, that's what he wants you to think this week.

He still wants us to unilaterally givce up bunker-buster nukes, and all that implies.

He's not McGovern, but he is Jimmeh Carter.

Posted by: yehudit at October 5, 2004 12:19 PM
Can anyone tell me what we have got from this alliance post September 11th?

On the Israeli/Palestinian Conflict?
On Global Warming?
The ICC?
Trade?
Sustainable Development?
Global Energy Policy?

So...what is you'd like regarding these issues (some of which are not obviously Brit-related)?

Posted by: Occam's Beard at October 5, 2004 01:49 PM

Occam:
The moon and the stars!

Seriously,
On the Israeli/Palestinian Conflict? - a real committment to a two state solution and to punish both sides if it is not forthcoming. A US/UN program to change education polices in the WB and G.
On Global Warming? To get real and acknowlege its a huge problem and that clean energy would benefit everyone - esp. US Corporations.
The ICC? To join, to also negoiate better operational rules for it.
Trade? To shift the balance so that the developing world benefits - i.e. no more subsidies to your steel and farming industries.
Sustainable Development? - to commit further funds into developing world programs - sensible ones and ones that aren't tied to expensive US products.
Global Energy Policy? A Manhatten Style Prtoject to free the West from oil dependancy by developing a range of fuel cell/electric systems. I can't imagine a more pressing STRATEGIC issue at the moment beyond nuclear proliferation.

So there you go.

N

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Posted by: huojia at November 14, 2007 06:56 PM
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