Michael J. Totten: Fahrenhype 911

September 29, 2004

Fahrenhype 911

Check out the trailer for the new documentary Fahrenhype 911. It looks good. Somebody needed to make a cinematic counterpoint to Michael Moore's crackhouse propaganda.

I can already see one problem with it, though. It was a mistake to put Ann Coulter in this movie. It isn't smart to trot out one extremist to counter another. No one who isn't already a certain kind of right-winger wants to listen to her. There are plenty of people on the right and the left who are interested in seeing Fahrenheit 911 debunked. Most of my friends are liberals and also are former fans of the man from Flint. Those on the left who want to see it debunked need to hear arguments from people they trust.

Zell Miller makes a few appearances in the trailer. It's nice to seem him talking informally and at ease instead of worked up in a lather.

I'm glad the movie was made. I hope it's a good one. I'd like to see it. But that obligates me to watch Moore's movie first, which I have to say isn't something I feel particularly jazzed about at the moment. I've seen his other movies and even read one of his books. I'm done.

Posted by Michael J. Totten at September 29, 2004 03:13 PM

Comments

Michael,

I want to see Farenhype too, and I haven't seen Moore's piece yet. My colleagues find that rather incredible - they've all seen it (and most of them loved it). My university is showing Farenheit 9/11 for students and faculty next week; it's free to faculty & students so I'll probably go since it means that I don't have to put money into Moore's pocket to see the film.

Posted by: BeckyJ at September 29, 2004 03:24 PM

Uh-oh, you mentioned Michael Moore. I expect highly viturapitive comments.

BTW, I saw F9/11. It was not nearly as great as Moore fans think nor nearly as disingenuous as Moore-haters think.

A lot of it was silly -- like showing that military recruiters target malls in lower-income areas (duh) and showing that military businesses benefit from military action (duh, again.)

Definitely some material is worth seeing -- the pictures of destruction and suffering in Iraq (duh, but since the media generally refuses to show this stuff, it's worth seeing), and watching President Bush sit in a classroom listening to a teacher read after he's been told the country is under attack. (Bill Maher keeps harping on this point, but everyone else has given Bush a pass.)

Query -- why not watch the debunking first, and then the original? That ought to make for an interesting view.

Posted by: Oberon at September 29, 2004 03:45 PM

Oops, that would be "vituperative"

Posted by: Oberon at September 29, 2004 03:47 PM

Sack up and watch the film before you blast it any more. Just as you don't like people commenting on your posts with out reading the info.

Posted by: bob at September 29, 2004 03:56 PM

"Somebody needed to make a cinematic counterpoint to Michael Moore's crackhouse propaganda."
You mean the crackhouse propaganda you haven't seen, so have no knowledge of? SO essentially this statement, made quite flippantly, invalidates any further opinion we might have. But I digress...

"Those on the left who want to see it debunked need to hear arguments from people they trust. "
And whom in that short clip of Farenhype was going to convince us otherwise? None gave concrete examples. Why would we trust this "stright to DVD" release over anything else? They gave personal opinions on how there is a terrorist threat and Moore's problems with how the country has been run the past 3.5 years...none of which Moore disagrees with. of course you'd know this if you'd---um--actually SEEN the film.

"Zell Miller makes a few appearances in the trailer. It's nice to seem him talking informally and at ease instead of worked up in a lather."

uh... OK.... pretty much everyone took a step back when Zell made his psycho speech, even Republicans said he was speaking on his own. (again, how convenient: everyone at the convention was speaking on their own, not for the party. Except when praising Bush--then we're all standing together! rah!) Certainly he doesn't speak for the majority of ANY party.

"I'm glad the movie was made. I hope it's a good one. I'd like to see it. But that obligates me to watch Moore's movie first, which I have to say isn't something I feel particularly jazzed about at the moment. I've seen his other movies and even read one of his books. I'm done."
Why don't you elaborate? What was it about the films you didn't enjoy, but you are so flippant about seeing a film that agrees with your opinion? I want to see this film too, however the preview didn't show me anything compelling into looking into the absolute corruption in the current administration. I would think any film about 9/11, films about films about 9/11, would first have to deal with that first obvious step.

Posted by: indy at September 29, 2004 04:02 PM

"Zell Miller makes a few appearances in the trailer. It's nice to seem him talking informally and at ease instead of worked up in a lather."

Posted by: indy at September 29, 2004 04:02 PM

Bob,

When I criticize Moore (admittedly aside from dismissing his movie as "propaganda") I do it with the full knowledge of who is he and what he says. I've seen his other movies, read one of his books, and regularly read what he has to say on his Web site. I don't have to see that one particular movie in order to talk about him any more than you have to read every single thing I've ever written just to comment here.

Posted by: Michael J. Totten at September 29, 2004 04:02 PM

Ann Coulter is a bitch, who cares. She's more right than wrong.

Posted by: David at September 29, 2004 04:03 PM

David: Ann Coulter is a bitch, who cares. She's more right than wrong.

She's right sometimes. But my liberal friends won't listen to her even when she is right. That's why it was a mistake to put her in the movie.

Posted by: Michael J. Totten at September 29, 2004 04:14 PM

Testing. Please ignore this message.

Posted by: Michael J. Totten at September 29, 2004 04:34 PM

As you may have heard, Moore's movie includes a lot of anti-House of Saud talk that I think you, Michael, and a lot of other folks reading this would find endearing if they were being said by someone else.

Posted by: Markus rose at September 29, 2004 04:42 PM

>>>"But my liberal friends won't listen to her even when she is right. That's why it was a mistake to put her in the movie."

You're right. Unfortunately, it's rarely what you say; but who says it, and how they say it.

Posted by: David at September 29, 2004 06:00 PM

Programming note: There was an error with the comments section. It's fixed now.

Posted by: Michael J. Totten at September 29, 2004 06:05 PM

Michael Moore is a genius. He got all these conservative film makers to concentrate their firepower on him instead of the real target.

Posted by: Robert Anderson at September 29, 2004 06:07 PM

David,

It would be like asking Michael Moore to rebut Ann Coulter. Not smart. What he might say about her could very well be true, but he's the last person anyone should ask to do it, especially if you want conservatives to listen.

Posted by: Michael J. Totten at September 29, 2004 06:08 PM

i heard dick morris talk about this film, and when i heard him mention coulter, i had the same reaction. thousands and thousands of minds will go into lockdown.

i downloaded f911, and after (maybe a little too much) self medication, i started watching. i didn't last long, maybe 45 minutes. what i saw was very shallow and deceptive, but masterfull in it's application of CYA. so many threads in this flick just end with a heartfelt midwest accent, dripping with cynicism, asking: but can we trust..., or, is that what really happened... - leading nowhere.
hell, just read hithchens "unfairenheit"

Posted by: frendlydude2k at September 29, 2004 06:42 PM

Moore is a marketing genius. I felt I had to see the flick just in order to discuss it. How many millions of tickets has he sold this way?

I liked 1 or 2 minutes of the film about the excesses and absurdities of post-911 security situation. His main talent is satire and ridicule and bullying the people on camera/on-screen. Occasionally he puts that talent to good use at a deserving target. But most of it is too awful to contemplate. I didn't even like the parts where he goes after the Saudis and heaps blame on them, even though I agree on the basic underlying point. Moore casually spouts blatant lies, like implying that the Saudis own 7% of America. He never discusses Wahabbism or anything about the intolerant and reactionary strains of Islam that lie behind the rise of terrorism as well as the general stagnation across the Islamic world.

Moore doesn't care about such stuff. The Saudis are cyphers to him. He places blame on them only so that he may then use them as a stick to bash his real enemy, his obsession - Bush.

Posted by: John, Tokyo at September 29, 2004 07:44 PM

As heinous and disingenuous (spot on, Sen. McCain) as Michael Moore is, he is nowhere near as disgusting as the vile, facist, terrorist-advocating Ms. Coulter. Anyone who suggests that domestic terrorists should target the New York Times building or that all liberals should be hung for treason loses the right to be taken seriously even when they say "the sky is blue."

-john

Posted by: John at September 29, 2004 07:48 PM

The best debunking of Moore that I have seen is by David Kopel - 59 Deceits in Fahrenheit 9/11.

There is 4 page summary of the larger piece which is quite long. It is a compendium of other articles and sources - with links to the originals. It also has responses from Moore or Moore's team, Kopel's counter response, plus reader feedback. It has been revised a few times dropping some points of Moore's that were judged valid and other new inaccuracies that were uncovered.

It convincingly argues that there are 59 factual inaccuracies in the movie and also lists a number of other complaints about things such as "cheap shots" and faulty logic. The author does a good job steering clear of froth-mouth partisan ravings about Moore, his weight, his patriotism, etc. and maintaining a dispassionate tone for the critical analysis.

Posted by: John in Tokyo at September 29, 2004 07:59 PM

I used to reflexively dis Ann Coulter just to bend over backwards to say "but some conservatives go too far too" yadda yadda yadda. And, I still have no interest whatsoever in reading her books, mostly because of the reason PJ O'Rourke described: It sucks being yelled at by someone you already mostly agree with. But, really, I gots ta admit, since reading the awesome columns that George Gurley does where he hangs out with her, I've come to kind of dig her. I wouldn't want to read a book, but she's a good quote machine, TV-pundit, and sometimes a funny columnist. She's smart, witty, quick-thinking, and fearless. Micky Kaus has long been rumored to be "romantically linked" to her. My only point being that people and things are usually a bit more complicated than they seem at first glance.

For the record, I do not find her physically good-looking in any way. I don't know how that whole canard got started.

Posted by: Eric Deamer at September 29, 2004 10:18 PM

Asking Ann Coulter to debunk Michael Moore is like paying Verne Troyer to go rough up Emmanuel Lewis.

Posted by: Wagner James Au at September 29, 2004 10:51 PM

Sony wants to advertise Moore's film DVD release. The t.v. networks are refusing to run the ads. It's great to see them taking a stand on principle against his garbage.

Posted by: Jack at September 30, 2004 04:24 AM

After Moore's "Bowling for Columbine" blantant manipulation of images one would think people would question Moore's savvy propaganda techniques.

Guess not.

Anyway, ever since Hollywood awarded Moore's Bowling film an Oscar for Best Documentary, there is no such genre as "Documentary".

Documentary: presenting facts objectively without editorializing or INSERTING FICTIONAL MATTER.

None of Moore's films can be classified as "documentary" and he is not a documentarian. Moore got away with Fahrenheit 9/11 because he truly believes Americans are stupid.

Hollywood Moore is likened to Dan Rather's Memogate.

Posted by: susan at September 30, 2004 05:42 AM

Does Moore use innuendo and assemble sequences to fit his “story” sure, so what? Go to factcheck.org and you will see the debunking of almost every political ad that has come out this year from either candidate. Moore made a two hour long political cartoon, with no more factual liberties then in any Bush campaign ad (or Kerry’s for that matter) and everyone went positively gooey. God I wish they would “fact check” Limbaugh any where near that much.

Right out of the box the very first “deceit” is bull feathers.

Fahrenheit 9/11 begins on election night 2000. We are first shown Al Gore rocking on stage with famous musicians and a high-spirited crowd. The conspicuous sign on stage reads "Florida Victory." Moore creates the impression that Gore was celebrating his victory in Florida. Moore's voiceover claims, "And little Stevie Wonder, he seemed so happy, like a miracle had taken place." The verb tense of past perfect ("had taken") furthers the impression that the election has been completed.

Actually, the rally took place in the early hours of election day, before polls had even opened. Gore did campaign in Florida on election day, but went home to Tennessee to await the results. The "Florida Victory" sign reflected Gore’s hopes, not any actual election results.

I highlighted the statement that makes this a straw man. Moore, in the film was talking about having a dream; all of the film sequences for that segment were in a fuzzy soft focus “dream-like” treatment. Moore was in no way suggesting that the this was some kind of post election we won rally, only that this was part of his dream and that was made very clear in the film unless you’re an obtuse partisan hack.

If you don’t buy the authors interpretation, then the whole argument falls like a house of cards and you are left with 58 deceits; frankly I could go on. But when you don’t even get your very first bullet point right what is that point? It’s like Rather Gate, if any part of your story is BS, its all BS. (right?)

Moore’s biggest crime in the film is the use of innuendo and a preponderance of evidence that sounds bad but he never bothers to string the issues together to make a coherent argument. How that is different from what I read on partisan blogs or from campaign literature day in and day out I can’t say. 59 deceits is only convincing if you have already made up your mind about the essay’s conclusions. F911 is no where near filled with the “factual inaccuracies” his detractors claim and certainly no more then you might hear on Rush Limbaugh or Sean Hannity who never get “fact checked” by these people and are on the TV and radio evey single day.

Personally I was amused by the film, but again I didn't take it as serious political commentary any more then I take Rush Limbaugh (who I listen to quite often for a good chuckle). Look if there were people out there fact checking both Moore and Limbaugh for the things they say and exposing them to be nothing more then political caricatures and clowns I could buy that, but it’s not. Peopl only "fact check" the other guys clowns. When you focus on Moore and forget all the folks on the other side of the isle who do the same damn thing then your “analysis” is simply a sad expression of political tribalism.

Moore film took all this heat because it was popular and entertaining and the right was having their ox gored in the popular media instead of being the perpetrators of the same crap. In my opinion of course.

Posted by: Rick DeMent at September 30, 2004 05:46 AM

Rick,

so if I'm supposed to ignore Moore's past-perfect verb tense in favor of a fuzzy soft focus "dream like" treatment, that makes me a partisan hack? I should just ignore his words, or else I'm a hack? You say it was made "clear" in the film, but the only evidence you provide is a "soft focus". Maybe you're the hack.

I'm encouraged that you didn't take it as serious political commentary, but Moore intended it as serious political commentary. And that's what's at issue here, "soft focus" notwithstanding.

Posted by: David at September 30, 2004 06:43 AM

Micky Kaus has long been rumored to be "romantically linked" to her.

Say what? I've never heard this one before.

I agree, Coulter's involvement makes me less likely to want to see the film, although I suppose Morris has even less credibility than she does.

As for Moore's "anti-House-of-Saud talk," the only negative thing he has to say about Bin Laden, the Saudis, or Saddam is that they have "ties" to Bush, as though they're sullied by their connection to him instead of the other way around.

Posted by: Steve at September 30, 2004 07:10 AM

"Moore is a marketing genius. I felt I had to see the flick just in order to discuss it. How many millions of tickets has he sold this way?"

Probably a lot of tickets got sold that way. People are generally unwilling to criticise a film that they have not seen yet. So before they blast it in a review they buy a ticket and Moore laughs his way to the bank. People can criticise Moore without seeing this film, but I think it would give his critics more up to date ammunition they might want to think seriously about going.

If you dont want to put money in Moores pocket try and download it or get invited to a free showing.

Posted by: sam at September 30, 2004 08:31 AM

The main difference between Coulter and Moore is that Ann is entertaining and smart while Mike is revolting and dim-witted.

I saw the movie shortly after returning home from Iraq, mostly because my fiance was curious about all the hype. What I saw shocked me, and the applause that rang throughout the Atlanta theater flat-out frightened me. I watched as a Muslim American Marine (who refused to go to Iraq) suggested that Marines "kill poor people." They don't risk their lives in an effort to rebuild a nation devastated by 30 years of oppression. They don't defend themselves when attacked by cleverly placed roadside bombs or sporadic gunfire. They don't bring hope or freedom to anyone. They just "kill poor people." This is a powerful message. I've already heard from Iraqi friends of mine who angrily asked me how an American can get away with making a film like this. They told me about the "noticeable and growing" support for the insurgency as a result of this film. They are outraged. I wonder if that Marine knew that his words would inspire "poor people" to take up arms against American soldiers? If he did know this, I wonder if he would have said what he said if he were in Iraq, as opposed to enjoying the comforts of Moore's surroundings?

If Moore could sell it, I'm quite certain he would make a movie completely dedicated to defacing our military. He showed one interview with an Officer- a young Captain who was the only military interviewee who held a college degree. As the Captain spoke of their mission to help Iraqis and encourage them to adopt a free society, Moore played footage of charred bodies and screaming survivors of apparant destruction- effictively calling the young officer a moron. Of course the officer had no idea that he was speaking to a Moore cameraman or that his words were going to be used as a backdrop to scenes of death and destruction. Well, I spent a year in Iraq and I have a very different image of how things went over there. Moore's film, I have no doubt, was made to bolster terrorist recruiting and generate hatred and disgust for American soldiers. He hates himself, and he takes great pleasure in flogging those who represent courage and honor- values that he always wanted but never quite seemed to grasp.

Moore is not worth the spit that he bathes in.

Posted by: $lick at September 30, 2004 09:48 AM

David,

The dislocation that Drezener so breezily dismisses had real consequences that are harmful to economic progress, like divorce, alcoholism, suicide that always accompanies these tectonic shifts. I’m not saying progress should stop, only that these externalities be properly enumerated and paid for by those companies who whish to go the outsourceing route.

For me, when Moore said, “Last night I had a dream…” and the entire sequence was in the fuzzy focus that meant that this was not being presented as fact.

But that is irrelevant, the point is that in order for the "deceit" to be factual you have to buy the 59 deceit authors interpretation of the sequence, which makes it a text book definition of a straw man argument, not anything in the ballpark of objective fact.

Bush supporters cried foul over the interpretation of the Saxby Chambliss add against Max Cleland which had the pictures of Bin Laden and Hussein. Some suggested that this questioned Max’s patriotism and denounced the ad. Bush supporters fired back that no such thing was said in the ad. I agree with this (although the ad was a misrepresentation of the facts on other grounds). But if you buy the interpretation of the ad as calling Max unpatriotic then the complaint is legitimate. You say you agree with the 59 deceit author’s interpretation of the sequence. Fair enough. I don’t. But now what we are arguing about is opinion, not objective fact. What you think of Moore (or Bush or Kerry or anyone else) as a person is irrelevant.

And I’m sure Ann Coulter and Rush Limbaugh consider themselves as serious political commentary, that doesn’t make it true. And funny is a matter of opinion, some people seem to like Gallagher.

Posted by: Rick DeMent at September 30, 2004 10:44 AM

opps please disreguard the fiet paragraph of my last post, sorry.

Posted by: Rick DeMent at September 30, 2004 10:47 AM

Sad, conservatives need to look at the real picture of what is going on. Moore makes very good points, some which ae a little too far, but the headlines are there, bush is speaking, and pretty much points out himself how much he wanted this war. He even said himself he would not do anything over if he knew Iraw didn't have WMD... WASN'T THAT WHAT THE MAIN PRIORITY OF THE WAR WAS IN THE FIRST PLACE?! HE SAID IT HIMSELF, AND HE HAD SAID IT WEEKLY IN HIS RADIO BREIFING!! NO WONDER NO ONE READS THIS WEBSITE!

Posted by: isobro at October 4, 2004 10:37 PM

I ordered Fahrenhype 911 and received it today. I just watched it on my computer. Its a great film. We should work with Glenn Reynolds to get as many of these as possible over to our troops.

www.instapundit.com

Posted by: Brendan Steinhauser at October 5, 2004 11:34 PM

I agree with isobro, it is a sad time for America, and even worse for the troops and their families. Okay, first of all, we have no reason to be in Iraq, there were no WMD’s, no argument, period! Okay? Now, this one’s a doosey, the “war” in Iraq, isn’t technically a war at all, it’s actually an occupation, that is when a government is taken over, overthrown, and then replaced. So now we have occupied Iraq, our soldiers and workers are being killed, as are theirs, by the thousands I might add. “Why?” you ask, if there is obvious evidence that this was a mistake? Mabye we should blame the oil, if the oil wasn’t there, this all would never have happened. Obviously we can’t just up and leave, we have to finish what we started, but why do the people on this website, and in other places, continue to support this administration? Do you think the non-conservatives are hiding the WMD’s? Hmmm… If bush wins again, gay people will loose the right to be married… sad. Conservatives say they are protecting the sanctity of marriage, I guess a marriage in a bar in Vegas conducted by Elvis doesn’t count as a violation of “sanctity”.
In conclusion, I’ll just say that there is still hope for the future, someday Americans will stand up for themselves and demand rights, answers, and more control of this country. But, until then, they will continue running this country into the ground… using our money.

Posted by: chad at October 7, 2004 06:44 PM

I thought Fahrenhype 9/11 was amazing. It is so great, I'm happy I bought it and after seeing it over and over, I just wish the rest of America could see this movie. I think it should be on TV or in theaters, I love it that much. I also like seeing the truth and Michael Moore's film is far from it and I do not appreciate him using 9/11 tragedy as a way to put down the president, that is very disgusting. Thank You!

Posted by: LR at October 7, 2004 07:18 PM

Moore didn't use 9/11 to trash Bush, open your eyes. The docu. is supposed to show how poorly everything was handled after the event. If your wondering why "Hype" didn't make it to theatres... it's because it's a bunch of crap. Oh, and just incase you didn't know, Moore is a republican.

Posted by: chad at October 8, 2004 10:23 AM

Ignorance is bliss....

Posted by: Information Broker at October 9, 2004 02:58 PM

Fahrenhype is for shoring up the BASE. Dumb-ass Democrats aren't going to go see it with or without Ann Coulter. Intelligent Democrats won't give Conservatives the satisfaction or the money.

I did not see Fatso's movie because I won't give money to such a despicable traitor.

I am an Independent Conservative. Osama Bin Laden would vote for Kerry if he could. I will not be on that side. All the Hollywood weirdos are backing Kerry. I will not join them.

John Kerry has lied to the American people for years for political expediency. He has voted to cut military appropriations and intelligence capabilities throughout his entire career and now he says he will keep us safe? He's a liar.

The Democrats have the "stupid" vote wrapped up with their lies. Fortunately, they are too stupid to negotiate the voting booths. That's called Poetic Justice.

The terrorists are praying that Kerry wins. Jacques Chirac is praying that Kerry wins. Barbara Streisand and Alec Baldwin. The Taliban, Al Qaeda, Michael Moore, and every American of low IQ. The ACLU, the gun control weirdos, the abortionists, the animal rights wackos, the transvestites, the gay radicals, the transexuals, the transgendered. The pornographers, NAMBLA members, child molestors, radical vegetarian activist idiots. They're all rallying behind Kerry.

That alone is reason enough to vote for Bush.

Posted by: Mountain Man at October 19, 2004 10:33 AM

Bob,

When I criticize Moore.. I do it with the full knowledge of who is he and what he says. I've seen his other movies, read one of his books, and regularly read what he has to say on his Web site. I don't have to see that one particular movie in order to talk about him any more than you have to read every single thing I've ever written just to comment here.
--------------------------
Yeah, Michael. No kiddin'. I once met a black guy I didn't like so obviosuly I should hate all blacks. I don't have to speak to any other "particular" black people to make that assessment. Crazy, isn't it?

It's simply impossible to criticize something you haven't seen or read, so your theory holds little water with me. Certainly, Fahrenheit 9/11 contains some propaganda, but show me one political movie, artical or mud-slinging commercial that doesn't.

Remember, there's an ounce of truth in every lie

Posted by: Frank at October 20, 2004 02:47 PM

My only problem with posting my support for this film, is that my poaty has to near this immature piece of garabage left by a moron who doesn't know any other way to express himself. Grow up Junior
Mike someone had to show the world what a sham Moore is. I'm glad you took him on.

Posted by: GAR at October 22, 2004 06:27 AM

just received and watched the new release of "Fahrenhype 911" with a small group of young voters and it was like a breath of fresh air. They did a great job of dispelling all the lies and agendas of the Michael Moore ilk. I highly recommend getting a copy and watching it. The entire movie is excellent and the parts about 9-11 as discussed by Dick Morris, Ed Koch, and Zell Miller were fantastic

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Posted by: Wellbutrin at November 9, 2004 03:52 AM

Wow, these people are fucking idiots. I'd just like to say that you backassed inbred country fucks are really the stupidest fucking pieces of shit that i ever had the mispleasure of even reading about your twisted white supremist views you fucking jackoffs. I'm so sick of this MIchael moore propaganda bullshit. Only someone from the south could come up with something as stupid as the diarreia running out of your fucking assholes that you call a mouth. So i hope that you continue the generations of kids to come with anemia, as in, you fucking your sister in her ripe ass, and I bid you, a very fucking disgusted, ADUE.
P.S.
Oh and if any of you think that the war in Iraq is tide with the terorist acts of 9/11 you must have fucked your mother one too many times you discust me you insest loving basterds. I HATE YOU ALL. GOOD BYE!
P.P.S
FUCK BUSH!

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I compleatly agre with Shizzledizzlerizzle about what he said. Very true words but a little to much trashing not all southern people are bad.

Posted by: BUSH KICKER 25 at November 10, 2004 07:15 PM

HUH? Mountain man i dont quite get your position on the "Stupid Vote". Every State that was prodomanatly BUSH has a average lower I.Q. than all the Kerry states. OH and You say Kerry lied to the American People, Bush lied about Iraq and that has cost us trillions of dollors puting us in this great pit of debt, plus we have lost many many outstanding young people to a war that was started over false pretenceses. The thing that scares me the most is that fundimentalist Christians run the government now. Wow! Thats what we really need more polarization from the region that we cant seem to leave alone. One thing I have yet to understand about Republican ideals is why you would want to repeal the clean air act and other inviormental bills. Is it out of greed that you do this so you can pump and burn more of your coal and oil? Do you not care that your childern and their childern will have to pay for and clean up the mess we have made? It makes me so sad that things like this could happen in my life time. I hope this will inliten some of you more moderate Right wingers. Hope things clear up. Peace!

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