March 30, 2004

New Column

My latest Tech Central Station column is up: The Small Pleasures of Trade.

(The blogosphere's "hat tip" convention doesn't work with regular articles. But I can mention on the blog that I got this idea from Randy Paul.)

Posted by Michael J. Totten at March 30, 2004 11:28 AM
Comments

Hey, I just wanted to comment on your globalization article, please you must know that Pisco is from Peru, the name Pisco comes from the port city of Pisco which was named that in the 1530's when the Spanish were still in control of the Viceroyalty of Lima (Peru). Chile adopted a similar technique of making the wine brandy, however most will agree Peruvian Pisco is much more aromatic and has a way better taste than the strong Chilean imitator, there have been several trade disputes over this. Chile went as far as changing the name of one of their towns to Pisco Elqui in 1930! Let's look at the facts please, the Pisco Sour belongs to Peru, it's our patrimony, sample the two piscos, and let your taste buds decide.

Posted by: Ricky at March 30, 2004 11:54 AM

Ricky,

I went to Pisco Elqui in Chile. Lovely place. I thought that's where it first came from. That's what the Chileans told me.

I didn't mean to take it away from you!

Posted by: Michael J. Totten at March 30, 2004 12:04 PM

You can read more about the Pisco dispute here.

Obrigado pelo hat tip, Michael! (my Portuguese is better than my Spanish . . .)

Posted by: Randy Paul at March 30, 2004 12:14 PM

Well Michael,

I have to disagree with the need for Starbucks in Chile. Part of the intrigue of going to other lands and living within other cultures is the challenge of "living in Rome like the Romans". So because you are having caffeine withdrawal after great food you bemoan the lack of a Starbucks? Well why stop there. If you had toddlers trucking around with you what would you want next? A strip-mall containing a "Chucky-Cheese" (presuming this meets your minimal standards for a developed nation.)

Listen if I pay "mucho dinero" to go to some other place in the world the last thing I want to see are the same trappings I live with when running out for five minutes to pick up a loaf of bread.

Ptui!

I don't think there is much anyone can do about globalization, and with respect to improving the quality of life of people around the world it is a great and powerful force. However there is something wonderful about going to another culture and immersing yourself into a completely different mindset even if you are forced to look at big breasts while sipping some expresso.

On second thought, jeez, that doesn't sound so bad....

Posted by: bob at March 30, 2004 01:12 PM

I've noticed that people who use McDonald's as a symbol of all the evil in the world always seem to misspell it as "MacDonald's". I've long had this suspicion that it's an intentional misspelling, used to adopt a pose of "I'm so stylishly unfamiliar with this place I don't even know how to spell it right".

I can't stand McDonald's either, but that's because the food there sucks, not because of some half-baked political reason.

Posted by: Combustible Boy at March 30, 2004 01:14 PM

bob: Listen if I pay "mucho dinero" to go to some other place in the world the last thing I want to see are the same trappings I live with when running out for five minutes to pick up a loaf of bread.

Sure. For the most part, I agree with that. But there's a point where it becomes silly. Imagine if a Peruvian visited Portland and was annoyed to see a Peruvian restaurant downtown.

It's not that I think Chile needs Starbucks per se. What Chile needs is some decent coffee, something better than NesCafe, which is pretty much all they have right now. NesCafe isn't even Chilean. It's American, too. And it's crap.

Posted by: Michael J. Totten at March 30, 2004 01:48 PM

Well, as I mentioned in the comments of the post on my blog that I assume inspired your comments, what bothers me about this is that the traffic seems to be going primarily from the US outward and not much in the other direction. While I'm glad to see upscale chains of Brazilian barbecue restaurants taking off in siginficant numbers, I cringe when Mércia and I visit cousins in Rio de Janeiro in the Barra da Tijuca neighborhood and see a shopping center called "New York City Center" (I'm not translating) or the Outback Steakhouse nearby.

For every Pollo Campero, there are many more McDonalds, Burger Kings, etc.

I certainly hope Starbucks doesn't go to Brazil. I doubt if they would succeed, in any case. Coffee in Brazil (especially in Minas Gerais) is excellent, plentiful and very inexpensive. I could not see people paying Starbucks prices for something that they can get for much less.

Posted by: Randy Paul at March 30, 2004 02:24 PM

We have a local mall in New Jersey that’s totally Japanese. When you something, the clerk will hand your check to you with both hands and say arigato with a quick nod. It’s a great place to get sashimi-quality fish.

I’ve always thought that globalization was a good thing, especially when it comes to food. When I was growing up, the 'gourmet international' section of our grocery store was limited to a few limes and a some Chung King products. Now there's Indian food, Polish food, Thai and a whole aisle devoted to Goya Spanish foods.

Goya has some good (but expensive) stuff, and you can find it all over the place. I wonder why, when people criticize globalization, it’s always about McDonalds and Starbucks – not Nestle and Goya?

Posted by: mary at March 30, 2004 02:38 PM

I am glad to see you write on globalization, a topic I find very interesting and many-sided. Starbucks sets a standard for quality that is unmatched in Europe: Most Parisian cafés serve third-rate coffee, and if you have it with milk, it is uniformly throughout the country that plastic-tasting heat-treated sterilized stuff that comes in a cardboard box. But Starbucks is not just the coffee itself, it's a very American experience: triple venti latte, frapuccino, muffins, etc. and can't really be compared to the traditional European café scene.

One thing I dislike in the more rabid criticisms of globalization is the failure to see the big picture, the good and the bad: Many anti-globalists who complain about MacDonalds and Starbucks don't seem to complain a lot about computers, internet access, mountain bikes, snowboards, email, etc. which are also among the evils of U.S.-driven globalization. Likewise, those who complain about the deleterious cultural effects of U.S. fast food habits or Hollywood-themed television fare often overlook less objectionable examples of U.S. "cultural imperialism", such as attitudes towards womens rights in the 1970s, the physical fitness boom of the 1980s or the anti-smoking crusade of the 1990s. It's a mixed world.

Posted by: Gabriel Gonzalez at March 30, 2004 02:49 PM

You're missing the business element of globalization, Michael.

Take McDonald's. McDonald's is not in the hamburger business, it is in the real estate business. McDonald's owns more land than the Catholic Church and all of it is placed on the busiest intersections of America.

The same is probably true with Starbucks. Are they interested in giving coffee to Chile? No, they are interested in acquring real estate property.

It would be interesting to compare the real estate laws of Argentina and Chile to see if Argentina is a better place to invest in real estate.

Just like McDonald's isn't interested in hamburgers, Starbucks is probably more interested in the real estate. Bad real estate environment in Chile = no starbucks stores.

Posted by: Jonathan at March 30, 2004 03:14 PM

Jonathan: Bad real estate environment in Chile = no starbucks stores.

But Starbucks is in Chile now.

I would rather buy property there than in Argentina. The Chilean government is far less corrupt. Both the cops and politicians in Argentina require bribes still to this day. Try to give a Chilean patrol officer ten bucks and he'll haul your ass in to jail for two weeks. Even if you're a tourist.

Argentina went into fiscal meltdown and dragged most of South America down with it. Meanwhile, Chile, all by itself, boomed. When I was in Santiago, half the city was undergoing North American style gentrification. It's amazing to see. It's on its way to being a First World nation. It's a long way from Mexico.

Posted by: Michael J. Totten at March 30, 2004 03:22 PM

Chile is a tea drinking nation.

I lived in Chile for five years, and instant coffee was the norm. But it's more of a tea drinking country though, and they observe the "onces" every late afternoon (from the English term "elevenses"). That probably explains the lack of a coffee culture in Chile. They modeled after the English and their tea times.

Posted by: David at March 30, 2004 04:41 PM

Argentina went into fiscal meltdown and dragged most of South America down with it.

I would disagree with you about the latter part of that statement. Argentina's collapse was pretty unique to Argentina. In other words, there was no domino effect. Brazil (which unlike Argentina let it's currency float freely before the shit hit the fan) while not setting the world on fire did not go into freefall as a result of Argentina's collapse. There were some specific areas (such as tourism on Ilha de Santa Catarina a favorite Argentine tourist destination) that were impacted, but Brazil's problems were not related directly to Argentina's problems. I would acknowledge that it didn't help matters, however.

Here's a cogent analysis as to what happened in Argentina and now even the IMF is taking some of the responsibility for what happened.

David, I had suspected the Chileans were tea drinkers. Did they drink maté too?

Posted by: Randy Paul at March 30, 2004 05:17 PM

Randy,

I didn't see any mate in Chile. But I didn't look either.

Posted by: Michael J. Totten at March 30, 2004 05:25 PM

In five years, I never once saw mate in Chile.

Posted by: David at March 30, 2004 05:32 PM

Yeah, I would imagine it's pretty much a southern Brazil, Argentina and Uruguay tradition.

Posted by: Randy Paul at March 30, 2004 05:35 PM

MT, I think I saw on your traveler's map that you've been to Trinidad & Tobago. Eat at the Homewood Cafe?

Posted by: Jim at March 30, 2004 06:19 PM

Being forced to drink NesCafe in Chile is pretty comical. The best coffee I've ever had was from Antigua, Guatemala although I had heart palpatations for weeks after getting back from there.

Speaking of irony, Taco Bells in Guatemala are really good.

Posted by: bob at March 30, 2004 06:33 PM

Actually, Nescafe is pretty good, as long as you put heaps of sugar in it.

Posted by: David at March 30, 2004 08:04 PM

I really enjoyed your description of being a coffee person in a country with no coffee culture. For those saying just get over it, all I can say is you just don't get it man. If coffee is a significant part of your being (My Mom's from Brazil, so I've been drinking coffee every day since I was 5) it's torture. I lived in Korea for a year, and it was just like Michael describes Chile. They thought instant cofee was real coffee! What can you even say to that? Starbucks was a godsend there, introducing some form of good coffee where there was none before. How can that be bad?

I'm always amazed when people say that globalization only means that American stuff gets imported to other countries and not the other way around. I mean, the United States has a greater variety of ethnic food than is available in any other country. Think of mary's description above of the changes her local supermarket has gone through because of globalization. And this is not to mention other areas such as film and pop culture. Any country in the world has a chance of their culture penetrating American culture and it probably already has to one extent or another. American-owned chains such as McDonald's and KFC do go all over the place, but they actually change a bit to fit the local culture: bulgolgi burgers in Korea, fried chicken and corn at McDonald's in Taiwan, etc. etc. It's all very complex and certainly not just a one-way transfer.

Posted by: Eric Deamer at March 30, 2004 08:07 PM

Jim: MT, I think I saw on your traveler's map that you've been to Trinidad & Tobago

Nope. Never been there. I'd love to go, though. So many places.

In July I go to Italy, Tunisia, and Libya (if I can get a visa.) It's gonna be hot in Libya. And my hotel will be bugged. Can't wait...

Posted by: Michael J. Totten at March 30, 2004 08:16 PM

I've been to Beijing several times. Each time a blank look from everyone when I sought coffee, any coffee. They barely knew what it was and had no idea why anyone would drink it. One entrepreneurial forward-thinker opened a coffee shop across from Shifan University. No one went in there except me.

But that was way, way back in the late '90s. Now that Beijing has replaced the bikes with cars, I imagine they have replaced some of the tea with coffee.

Posted by: Jim at March 30, 2004 08:38 PM

Jonathan, don't know where you got the comment about McDonald's owning all that land, but it's pretty silly. McDonald's is a franchise operation; they don't even own the stores. Usually the franchisee doesn't own the land and buildings either; they are generally leased. I don't think Starbucks uses franchisees, but I guarantee you they also don't own most of their locations.

I agree with Michael that globalization is for the most part a good thing. When I visited London in the 1970s as an exchange student, one of the things I really missed was the ability to get a good hamburger (Wimpy's were awful) at a cheap price. And nobody goes to England for the food, so let's not talk about sampling lots of the local cuisine. There are negatives of course as well, but they are outweighed by the benefits. When I was a kid, Mexican food was about as exotic as you could find here in the US, now there's a Thai restaurant a couple blocks away.

Posted by: Pat Curley at March 30, 2004 08:40 PM

I would say it's normal for an ex-Pat to yearn for taste of home, and equally normal for a tourist to sample the local cuisine. I mean why travel so far for what you can get up the street back home?

I have traveled over the last few years to the Former Soviet Union. The only times I have eaten in McDonalds was to treat some Russian kids ,it was a big deal for them ;-), for myself I prefer new and different dishes and restaraunts.

That said I DO like a good strong LARGE cup of coffee after my meal, maybe a few more.

I recall one time the lady I was dining with asked if I would like coffee after we had finished eating.

I replied yes, I liked the espresso but the cups were so small, the capcino was in a good sized cup but too sweet for my taste, could she ask the waitress if I could have espresso in a large cup?

There was a rapid fire exchange, yes I could.

SO what I ended up getting was a large cup with about an inch of coffee in the bottom LOL.

EXACTLY what I asked for, but not what I meant. ;-)

Posted by: Daniel Kauffman at March 30, 2004 10:06 PM

Daniel,

Ha ha. That's great. Reminds me of what happened to me in a small Chilean fishing village in the north. I ordered "coffee" after dinner, which was Nescafe, of course. I also asked for some milk. (I always put a small amount of cream in my coffee, but I figured milk was what they had.) The waitress looked at my like I was a crazy person.

Okay she said. And she brought me a cup of Nescafe mixed entirely with milk instead of water. It was absolutely undrinkable.

Posted by: Michael J. Totten at March 30, 2004 10:20 PM

A Few Thoughts About the Article...

ABOUT COFFEE: I'm somehow reminded in this of an episode of South Park. I don't know if you watch the show, Michael. I'm not really a South Park junkie, myself, but it's a damn witty and intelligent show if you take it there. And they do a better job than anyone when it comes to, from a libertarian perspective, poking fun at some of the more stupid elements on the Left. Anyway, there was this episode in which Starbucks opens up a chain in South Park and the boys get all propagandized by the local "mom and pop" coffee place into organizing a boycott. Well, the thing takes off and damn near the whole town joins in to drive out the evil "corporate pigs" or whatever until one of the boys actually tries the mom and pop coffee and realizes how much it tastes like crap compared to Starbucks. I'm rambling on. Point is it's a really great episode and kind of goes a long way in illustrating why free-market competition is a good thing, especially if you like coffee. Oh, and hey, the same thing kind of happened in the town I grew up in. Starbucks moved in and the local coffee shop started printing up these "Don't Let Your Friends Drink Starbucks" bumper stickers. Well, these were some pretty nifty looking bumper stickers and they caught on like wildfire. Eventually, though, people started to realize that Starbucks made better coffee. Funny how that works. I guess I kinda like that Americans instinctually rally behind the "little guy". It says alot. Can be kind of destructive taken too far, though.

NOT ABOUT COFFEE: I used to drink a ton of coffee, too. Still do drink it occasionally. But what you really need to do is to get into hot tea. It's way better for you and nothing beats a cup of Earl Grey. Bergamot is where it's at.

AND LAST BUT NOT LEAST: I believe it was David Brooks who recently broke down "Red America" and "Blue America" into essentially the amount of Churches vs. Sushi Restaurants in any given place. Thank you, Michael, for taking the best of both worlds and leaving all the negatives behind. You're culturally liberal in the best sense of the word: Tolerant, Open-Minded, Worldly, dare I say "Alternative". But you're not a frickin' ivory tower, anti-war, elitist, trendy-type. I've never heard of an atheist with half your common sense. And I can't think of a single hawkish-type moderate who's half as cool. You're good people, man. We need more people like you out here in flyover country. Are there alot of common-sense-alternative types out in Oregon? I need to find me a place more tolerant than Indiana but more sane than San Fransisco.

If anyone else can help me out with that whole "Between Indiana and San Fransisco" dilemma, do feel free to offer up your suggestions. It's gotta be urban. It's gotta be chocked full of all kinds of people and all kinds of places to go with all kinds of stuff. It's gotta have a big population of young people. And anywhere with a really BIG Green Party is automatically disqualified. Libertarians are kosher. I can deal with them.

Posted by: Grant McEntire at March 30, 2004 10:54 PM

Grant: Are there alot of common-sense-alternative types out in Oregon? I need to find me a place more tolerant than Indiana but more sane than San Fransisco.

Actually, yes. Think of Portland as a cross between San Francisco and Des Moines. That's true when comparing both culture and size. Kinda like Minneapolis with more weirdos and better weather.

You're culturally liberal in the best sense of the word: Tolerant, Open-Minded, Worldly, dare I say "Alternative".

I don't know where you get the "alternative" impression from. Really I don't. But you are correct, I must say. I have a pierced ear and scruffy facial hair. I wear ripped jeans at age 33 and I HATE wearing a tie. I listen to Goth music, hang out at hippie coffee shops reading my geeky history books, and stay up 'till 3:00 in the morning watching live bands that no one has ever heard of but who I've been following for years. I live in the "Berkeley" neighborhood of Portland and don't even think of moving out, especially not to the suburbs. My wife and I have soy milk in the fridge and veggie burgers in the freezer, even though neither of us is vegetarian, let alone (God forbid) vegan. We buy organic food and listen to NPR. And, yes, I love South Park. What a kick in the ass that show is.

I'm pretty normal for Portland, though. Only really "alternative" from the point of view of a Red State. Move here. You'll like it.

Posted by: Michael J. Totten at March 30, 2004 11:21 PM

Alot of rain, like Seattle?

Posted by: Grant McEntire at March 30, 2004 11:30 PM

Grant: Alot of rain, like Seattle?

Less. Portland is 50 miles inland. The Oregon coast gets twice as much as rain as we do. There is a mountain range between the ocean and the Willamette Valley, and it blocks half the rain we would otherwise get.

Seattle also has the Olympic mountain range between itself and the Pacific, but the Olympics get literally TEN TIMES as much rain as the Oregon coast. The Olympic peninsula is a actually a real rainforest, the only TRUE temperate rainforest on earth. It's amazing in there, but wetter than you would believe.

Posted by: Michael J. Totten at March 30, 2004 11:46 PM

Also, Grant, no rain whatsoever in the summer.

The rainy season in the Midwest is opposite ours. Summers here are warm and dry. Not wet. Not humid. Not hot.

No one owns air conditioners. They are a waste of money.

Posted by: Michael J. Totten at March 30, 2004 11:47 PM

Grant,

One more thing. It almost never snows. It doesn't get cold enough. We got snow here this Winter for the first time in five years.

Hardly anywhere on this earth has better weather. Only California can beat it year-round.

Posted by: Michael J. Totten at March 30, 2004 11:49 PM

Going to Grad School. Maybe Law School. You got anything there?

Posted by: Grant McEntire at March 30, 2004 11:58 PM

And what's your "Berekely" called?

In Indianapolis it's either Broad Ripple...hippie town.

Or the near-northeast side...the "Mass. Ave" neighborhoods aka the "Arts District".

Posted by: Grant McEntire at March 31, 2004 12:02 AM

Grant: Going to Grad School. Maybe Law School. You got anything there?

Lewis and Clarke. Excellent school. This guy is on my blogroll. He's a centrist Democrat and a Lewis and Clarke law professor. Email him.

And what's your "Berekely" called?

We have several, actually. Mine is called Hawthorne. There's also Alberta and Sellwood. Sellwood is a little more Midwesternish, though. And Alberta is more anarchist and rough around the edges. Alberta is a bit much for me. I hang out there sometimes, but I feel like a space alien if I stay too long.

There are other kinds of neighborhoods, too. We've got yuppie neighborhoods like Northwest and the Pearl District. Also St. Johns, where the young and hip go to slum it with the working class port workers. Kind of a cool place, really.

There are also some very nice middle-class conservative neighborhoods in the inner city that are more vibrant and tolerant than you might expect. Hardly any reactionary bigots live in the city. Those who do stay under the radar.

No slums anywhere, by the way. They have all been gentrified to one degree or another. Portland has a lot more money than it has ever had. It's not quite expensive yet, though. It's cheaper than Seattle, and A LOT cheaper than San Fransicso. I bought a house here that would cost 2 million dollars in San Francisco. The mortgage is about the same as apartment rent in Seattle.

Posted by: Michael J. Totten at March 31, 2004 12:24 AM

Grant,

Read this. It's a photo gallery and essay I wrote about Porltand last year. If you want to know what it looks like, you know what to do.

Posted by: Michael J. Totten at March 31, 2004 12:29 AM

Michael> I loved your article. In fact, I gave it some kudos in my new blog. It's funny when you mentioend the anti-Dean ad about Starbucks, because the usual anti-Starbucks commenst I've heard were from my semi-hippy sister, calling them too corporate. Granted, her prefernce is a coffeehouse in uptown New Orleans called the Neutral Ground which has a Bohemian air, which works for its market. The corporate air of Starbucks actually appeals to me (as my idea of causal involves slacks and a balzer...and I'm only 26). Being a New Orleanian, I'd recommend Cafe DuMonde, a French Quarter cafe that has developed branches in other parts fo New Orleans and nearby suburbs next time you're in New Orleans.

BTW, I am out of the Army in ten months and looking for a place to work. Your photoblog on Portland is a definite plus for the city and I am looking at grad schools and/or law school. Hopefully there is some demand for an Army Finance vet with a degree in Economics and Finance :)

As for blue and red states, I'd break it down into counties (or parishes for me, since many bue states have red counties and red states have blue counties (or parishes like my homeland). I would imagine that Portland is blue and most of Oregon would be red.

Posted by: Green Baron at March 31, 2004 03:26 AM

Democracy and social justice means we tell Chileans that they can't have imperialist Starbucks (or else). Also if you care about poor people, you should try to keep prices high for working people by keeping out Wall Mart. Its about poor people, not profits for greedy people making $25k/year.

Posted by: Leftie at March 31, 2004 06:17 AM

Portland is a great city and I truly miss it, having lived on the other coast these past many years. Big enough to have a metropolitan flair but small enough to where you can learn how to get around fairly quickly. I'm not sure how it is now, but back then I would feel perfectly safe walking by myself in any part of town anytime of day. Here in Connecticut you're either wiping your as* with Franklins or living in a slum. I exaggerate, of course, but compared to Portland there's a very small middle class. Much less class distinction out there.

Posted by: Rick W. at March 31, 2004 07:15 AM

Here's my question. Which is more important:

(1) That tourists in Chile be shielded from encountering echoes of their own culture that might detract from the exotic experience that they paid so dearly to have?

(2) That native Chileans might have an opportunity to discover the pleasures of a decent cup of coffee?

My solidarity is with the Chilean coffee-lovers, real and potential. :) So my second question is this: Is this further evidence of my long, slow slide into conservativism, or isn't it actually more liberal of me to think that opportunities to enjoy a latte should be afforded to everyone, including Chileans?

Posted by: Browning at March 31, 2004 09:08 AM

Browning: Is this further evidence of my long, slow slide into conservativism

No, it's the opposite. Opposition to trade equals the preservation of provincialism and backwardness.

Posted by: Michael J. Totten at March 31, 2004 09:24 AM

>> Opposition to trade equals the preservation of provincialism and backwardness.

You are just reclaiming classical liberalism. As a fan of John Stuart Mill, I approve.

Posted by: Ex at March 31, 2004 02:50 PM

Just a few lines to say that Pisco & Pisco Sour are the official drinks from Peru. Peru has produced and sold Pisco to Chile since the XVI century (for more historical facts about pisco: www.piscoesperu.com).
Unfortunetly Chile in 1931 changed the name of a town to Pisco to try to steal the origin of our National Drink. Chile not only took our southern territories in a war for which they prepared for many years, but has also tried to steal from Peru the origin of the potatoes, chirimoya, chicha morada, maca, also some of our traditional dances and music from Peru and Bolivia.

Posted by: Perunidos at March 31, 2004 06:05 PM

Pat,

You make my point for me.

When Ray Kroc gave a speech at University of Texas, afterward with a circle of university 'elites', he asked them, "What business am I in?" People laughed. He asked again, "What business am I in?"

"Stop kidding with us, Ray. You're in the hamburger business."

"No," he answered. "I'm in the real estate business."

Remember, Ray Kroc did not start McDonald's. That is why it is not named McKrocs. He bought it and made the franchise chain.

Here is a stupid anti-globalization page on McDonald's http://www.rotten.com/library/crime/corporate/mcdonalds/

Corporations have most of their wealth in real estate. When you look at globalization, you cannot ignore the real estate factor.

Posted by: Jonathan at March 31, 2004 07:17 PM

Hey sorry didn't mean to jump on you like that about the Pisco, but it's infuriating that the Chileans are trying to get recognition for a drink that didn't orginate in their skinny little territory...and just a few things you should be aware of...Chile is considered the traitor of the Americas, why? because they were gaving petrol to the British during the Falklands War against Argentina! yes you heard it right, where does this Anglo-Chile relationship stem? from the war of the Pacific 1879 when Chile (backed by the British) "stole" Bolivia's Coast as well as Peru's (very rich in nitrates) Tarapaca province, then there is the Pisco? marketing their low quality liquor and claiming it to be the original version...yuck!.. I mean seriously! what kinda of country is this? Then on top of that they have this strange air of superiority when they travel to other parts of South America, it wasnt too long ago where they were begging for soap on the streets! What's even more disasterous is that Chilean pilots on commercial flights over Peru are conducting electronic espionage on military units in Peru's southern frontier. Not to mention they have also purchased four missile frigates from the Netherlands, I think the world should be aware of the instability this country is causing.

Posted by: Ricky at April 1, 2004 01:05 AM

I agree 100% with Ricky. Chile has never been a good neighbor and there lays the reason why they keep buying submarines, F-16, and lots of tanks and ships. Chileans have always been welcome in Peru, in fact most of their businesses are in Peru (Fasa,Ripley,Saga,Lan,etc) but NO Peruvian business has been allowed to enter the Chilean market. Aercontinente tried and they were closed since they were capturing a big market share in Chile.
Pisco and Pisco sour have been the national Peruvian Drink and have been produced since the xvi century. I hope you make the necessary corrections and maybe one day you will enjoy the real pisco from the city of Pisco (Piedro Cieza de Leon, 1550: the word pisco is a quechua word that means bird).

Posted by: Victor Rojas at April 1, 2004 04:53 AM

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Posted by: Nahum at April 23, 2004 05:34 PM

I agree with Ricky too.

Jason
http://www.prime-letting.co.uk

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