March 29, 2004

Farce

The 911 Commission and the furor over Richard Clarke’s testimony gets worse every time I look at it.

Glenn Reynolds thinks Condoleeza Rice ought to testify before the commission. I agree. But he also says he hopes she says this from David Frum:

This administration came into office to discover that al Qaeda had been allowed to grow into a full-blown menace. It lost six precious weeks to the Florida recount – and then weeks after Inauguration Day to the go-slow confirmation procedures of a 50-50 Senate. As late as the summer of 2001, pitifully few of Bush’s own people had taken their jobs at State, Defense, and the NSC. Then it was hit by 9/11. And now, now the same people who allowed al Qaeda to grow up, who delayed the staffing of the administration, who did nothing when it was their turn to act, who said nothing when they could have spoken in advance of the attack – these same people accuse George Bush of doing too little? There’s a long answer to give folks like that – and also a short one. And the short one is: How dare you?
Ugh. No. Can we please not go there?

For God’s sake leave the Florida recount out of the national security debate. This is far more petty and partisan and obnoxious than anything Richard Clarke has said. I can hardly imagine anything less relevant. Imagine if he dragged the Florida recount into his testimony. The GOP would be agitating for thumb screws.

Glenn adds:

As I've said before, I'm willing to let bygones be bygones before September 11….
Yes. That’s the spirit. Really, it is.

Look.

The US government had a weak response to Al Qaeda before 911. The US government. Not Clinton. Not Bush. The entire government.

The media and the left just adore Richard Clarke because he beats up on Bush and praises Clinton. (Oh, and he grandstands about regime-change in Iraq, even though that has nothing whatever to do with pre-911 failures.) Meanwhile, Glenn Reynolds is cheering David Frum and hoping Condoleeza Rice will channel him in her testimony because he’s beating up on Clinton and not Bush. And bringing Florida and Senate confirmations into it, which also have nothing whatever to do with terrorism and national security.

Is no one embarrassed by the transparent partisanship of this entire charade?

The farther we get from 911 the less people seem to care about terrorism and the more they like to use it as a stick to beat up the other guy. I can’t see how this can possibly be good for the country. The transatlantic alliance is coming apart, and so is any shred of a bipartisan alliance here at home. It has become a partisan point-scoring farce.

Posted by Michael J. Totten at March 29, 2004 07:58 PM
Comments

The transatlantic alliance is coming apart, and so is any shred of a bipartisan alliance here at home. It has become a partisan point-scoring farce.

Richard Clarke is making Al-Qaida happy. That's a statement of fact, plain and simple. The Dems are making Al-Qaida happy, also a statement of fact. The French and the European Left are making Al-Qaida happy, statement of fact. Bush is a lion being gnawed on by a pack of hyenas, and it couldn't make the enemies of this country any happier.

Posted by: David at March 29, 2004 08:13 PM

I said the same thing and got grilled for it...

http://lasthome.blogspot.com/2004_03_01_lasthome_archive.html#108033531358246969

and

http://lasthome.blogspot.com/2004_03_01_lasthome_archive.html#108037117590507759

Partisan struggles on either side will one day catch the right person distracted at exactly the wrong time with disastrous results...

Posted by: Barry at March 29, 2004 08:24 PM

Maybe so, but George certainly has a place in making Al Qaeda "happy."

"Even such establishment voices as London's prestigious International Institute of Strategic Studies, which supported the Iraq war and hosted President Bush's during his recent state visit to Britain, concludes that the hostility, sparked by the Iraq war has substantially increased the growth potential for jihadi terror groups. Rather than isolating the jihadis in Arab public opinion and starving them of support, the effect of the war has been to move their view of the U.S. closer to the mainstream."

http://tinyurl.com/2royo

Posted by: Cognitive Dissonance at March 29, 2004 09:06 PM

George certainly has a place in making Al Qaeda "happy."

I'm sure bombing Germany made the Nazis hate us more. Oh well. So it goes.

Posted by: Michael J. Totten at March 29, 2004 09:11 PM

I'm sure bombing Germany made the Nazis hate us more. Oh well. So it goes.

Conflating this issue obviously makes bush-enablers feel better. You're right though, I should hold higher the opinions of 20-something male bloggers.

Posted by: Cognitive Dissonance at March 29, 2004 09:17 PM

Conflating this issue

I didn't "conflate" anything. I made a general point with a specific example. Fighting back always riles the enemy. How could it be otherwise?

Posted by: Michael J. Totten at March 29, 2004 09:28 PM

I'm consistently disappointed in the disingenuous reactions by officials in the Bush administration. They have reasonable responses to Clarke's accusations, and any common simpleton could articulate them.

I guess there are too many "special" simpletons in the Bush administration. All their missteps are extremely frustrating.

Posted by: Boyd at March 29, 2004 09:32 PM

Boyd,

can you give me an example of what you mean by "disingenous reactions" ?

Posted by: David at March 29, 2004 09:37 PM

Kerry has peaked and Bush is pulling ahead. The Clarke fiasco has no legs:

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=584&e=2&u=/nm/20040330/pl_nm/campaign_poll_bush_dc

Posted by: David at March 29, 2004 09:44 PM

Fighting back always riles the enemy. How could it be otherwise?

Here you go again, Michael, pretending that Iraq and Al Qaeda are interchangable.

Iraq is NOT Al Qaeda.

In fact, Iraq had virtually nothing to do with Al Qaeda.

How long will it take to get that through your thick skull?

Posted by: Mork at March 29, 2004 09:56 PM

I would completely agree that the partisan nature of this is incredibly damaging.

Look, we all agree that the US government could have done a lot more about terrorism before 9/11. The POLITICAL truth, and I think this goes to both the Democratic and the Republican response, is that terrorism by shadowy groups was considered just one of many threats. And it took a tragedy like 9/11 to wake people up to the importance of the threat.

But I think one of the main REASONS why the "transatlantic alliance is coming apart", is because of the "my way or the highway" stance of the adminstration, both in the US and internationally.

Tom Friedman and Kenneth Pollack have said it best - after 9-11, we wanted to confront the threat of terrorism as best as we can - but to do this effectively, skillfully, you need:

1. A ton of international support. But in so many instances, the administration chose to be unilateralist. This is NOT a mistake that would have happened if Bush 1 had been in power. The alliance that was gathered for the first war on Iraq, by Bush I, was masterful.

The war on Iraq, was simply handled badly by the current administration. From the lining up of allies, to securing the funds here at home, to getting "real" intelligence about WMD's, to losing credibility by consistently and wrongly tying Iraq to Al Queda, to such a shoddy plan for the post-war period in Iraq.

If you truly believe you need to create a democratic example in the Middle East, you have to admit, on a huge amount of fronts, the current administration has done a horrible job.

Posted by: JC at March 29, 2004 09:58 PM

I don't know if Iraq is Al-Qaida or not. It's debatable, agreed.

But Iraq needed to happen. That, or another 10 years of failing sanctions. Which was worse? Is it not true that the sanctions were also fueling the fire of islamic hatred? Is that not true? Yet we know Saddam could not be left unrestrained because of his desire to build WMDs.

Therefore, Bush's war HAD to happen. So Michael is correct---if it pissed people off, then so be it.

Posted by: David at March 29, 2004 10:01 PM

Mork: In fact, Iraq had virtually nothing to do with Al Qaeda. How long will it take to get that through your thick skull?

Next time you say "how long will it take to get that through your thick skull," tell me something I don't already know.

Those in the Middle East who are pro-Saddam are not our friends. Not everyone in the Middle East is sorry to see him go, you know.

Posted by: Michael J. Totten at March 29, 2004 10:43 PM

Mork: Al Qaeda is not and was not the only element on the wrong side of the GWOT. Making defeat of Al Qaeda the sole measure of success is short sighted (read that as STUPID).

At this point the enemy is complacency, which is the only thing I'm seeing from the chreering sections in the 9/11 rugby match.

Or, succinctly: Dems win, we get 9/10 and a good look at the ostrich's ass. Reps win and, considering how little they're selling any other message, we get the same ostrich with a kevlar-covered butt.

Please oh please, will SOMEONE on either side start selling a strategic vision again? I was comfortable with Bush's, but damn the administration has lost sight of the need to educate the people. Dems haven't even stepped up to the plate yet. (Except for Clarke: give the man credit, at least he's willing to flog the dead horse. It was his, after all.)

And sorry for being so long-winded about this Michael, but in that regard I'm not sure Rice shouldn't come out in full attack mode. This is exactly the time to call insincere posturing onto the floor for some good old-fashioned ass-chewing. She might be the person to do it.

Posted by: Mark Poling at March 29, 2004 10:54 PM

Next time you say "how long will it take to get that through your thick skull," tell me something I don't already know.

If you know that, then why do you keep making comments that imply that Al Qaeda and Iraq were allies, or even are part of a single, monolithic enemy?

It seems to me that you might be able to acknowledge the absence of any connection as a discrete fact, but you certainly haven't permitted it to infect the righteous majesty of the rest of your world view.

Posted by: Mork at March 29, 2004 11:01 PM

Mork: If you know that, then why do you keep making comments that imply that Al Qaeda and Iraq were allies, or even are part of a single, monolithic enemy?

I don't. You're reading too much into what I'm saying.

It seems you don't understand, at all, why I support regime-change in Iraq. Maybe you don't understand why anyone else does either. Perhaps you should listen more. We've gone over it for almost two years now.

Posted by: Michael J. Totten at March 29, 2004 11:07 PM

Mork,

Try this article by Paul Berman. He's an anti-Bush leftist. He wrote this article eleven days after September 11. It isn't about Iraq. But the rationale for invasion is woven throughout nevertheless. He understood the wider strategic objective instantly. Here's his last paragraph:

The Bush administration is likely to go on wavering between those poles--sometimes principled and penetrating, other times drawn by the lure of the simple and by a cowboy romance of ruthlessness. That is our misfortune, and the world's. Those of us who worry about the administration's instincts and deficiencies will have to decide how to behave now. Of course, we should criticize the administration when appropriate, and we will. But the most important thing we can do is to try to make up for the deficiencies ourselves, to articulate certain points in our own voice, and to promote our own idea of what the present war will have to be about, whether the administration joins us in doing so or not. We should say that in putting up a struggle against the terrorists and against the movements that support them, we are defending public safety in the short run, which will have to be everyone's business now. But we should also explain that we want to defend public safety in the long run, which can only be achieved by securing and spreading liberty and democracy. We should explain that one day even some of our enemies will want a free society in their own part of the world, and on that day those people will be our friends. We ought to acknowledge that in the meantime America may well end up undergoing sufferings on a scale that can never be evoked by a modest word like "policing." It is not that we have chosen war; it has chosen us, and all we can do is behave correctly under the circumstances. But a glance at the past ought to steady our nerves. For one day the liberty that we enjoy will be enjoyed also in those portions of the Arab and Islamic world that lack it now, and liberty for them will mean safety for us.
Posted by: Michael J. Totten at March 29, 2004 11:15 PM

I don't know about not mentioning the 2000 election. Seems like the Democrats can bring up their anger about it all the time, and we're supposed to accept it. I'd like to rub their noses in it a little, but I suppose we'll have to settle for that on November 2nd.

Posted by: Pat Curley at March 29, 2004 11:19 PM

Is no one embarrassed by the transparent partisanship of this entire charade?

Not any more; the Right has set the terms of the debate, and the Left are forced to answer or fade into obscurity.

Or, to put it another way, the security of the American people appears to be a partisan value these days.

Posted by: Kimmitt at March 29, 2004 11:20 PM

Michael,

Well, then it is time for more education, isn't it? It would probably be a good thing to educate people who might be more sympathetic, than ragging on them.

If you don't have some success convincing people on your own site, with a (fairly) sympathetic crowd, the same type of arguments used by the administration staff in the Arab world, isn't going to cut it either...

Also, most poeple don't read this site. You are always getting new people here. Unfortunately, that might mean, continually, starting at the beginning of what you want to say - kinda like the first day of class.

Posted by: JC at March 29, 2004 11:21 PM

JC: It would probably be a good thing to educate people who might be more sympathetic, than ragging on them.

Yes. Sorry about that. I'm in an extra-snarky mood tonight for some reason. Time for me to go to bed.

Anyway, I had the same thought. That's why I posted the link to the Paul Berman piece. Hope it helps.

Posted by: Michael J. Totten at March 29, 2004 11:34 PM

So, next logical question:

What is your particular viewpoint on why choosing Iraq was the next logical step on the "War on Terror"?

Are you of the:

1. We must change and inspire the Arab world with a shining example of democracy.
2. We have to show the Arab world that the US is not weak, and will hit back with extreme prejudice, "bad acting" states who defy us openly?
3. To free the people of Iraq.
4. To end the threat of WMD's from Iraq (a discredited reason now, but since others have read this site over the last two years, perhaps at one time this was a good reason for you. There's a "paper trail", as it were.)
5. Oil - in the sense of having military presence and some command and control in a large oil producing nation - for stability, if nothing else.
6. To remove a threat to Israel.
7. To finish the job the US started 12 years ago.
8. Because Saddam was in league with Al Queda (also discredited now)

I personally think that the adminstration believed most of the above - and had a mad-on for Saddam anyway - as pointed out not only by Richard Clarke, but also by other sources.

Which of the eight above, both in the past and now, do you buy?

And, do you think the current administration went about the goals in the right way?

This is where liberal hawks part company from the administration. I detailed my thoughts about this in a previous post. This administration did a BAD JOB even in their stated goal - because of arrogant unilateralism, wishful thinking, and losing credibility by misleading both the world and its own populace.

Posted by: JC at March 29, 2004 11:36 PM

Whoa - I look up, there are 5 more posts, that I should have read before posting. Ah well - bed here as well.

g'nite.

Posted by: JC at March 29, 2004 11:40 PM

The transatlantic alliance is coming apart...

Seven new members welcomed to NATO yesterday...in Washington D.C.

Posted by: Rick W. at March 30, 2004 03:35 AM

Cognitive Dissonance,

Rather than isolating the jihadis in Arab public opinion and starving them of support, the effect of the war has been to move their view of the U.S. closer to the mainstream.

You're a fucking idiot demolishing a strawman. The Arabs were dancing in the streets on 9/11. Bin Laden was their "strong horse" and the Arabs wanted to ride him towards their dreams of jihad.

You don't actually believe your own argument do you? The Democrats are waging total war against Bush. The only thing that would make this worse than naked partisanship is if the Democrats actually believed their own arguments. If you guys actually believe what you say, then God help us all.

Posted by: HA at March 30, 2004 04:20 AM

I agree with all of those reasons above JC. Sure the UN would have like to have kept the Oil for Palace program alive, it looks like they were making tons of cash off the whole affair. Yet no one on the left even mentions that maybe that is the reason they opposed us so radically. Or they forget to mention over 30 nations took part in the Invasion, surely not all took troops. But to be honest in today's American Army, most of those armies would have gotten in the way. There was a reason that Britain took their own objectives, absent American Troops and vice versa. There is a reason that the East European countries and Australia sent their Special Ops, those are self contained units that need little outside help.

But to put the French or German Army, what little there is, next to the American Army, and say keep up. Well that just would not happen. In Reforger in 1988, yes 16 years ago(damn I am getting old) I saw the technology differences then. Now, our Army is light years beyond that. Did you know, I was in a TOC center as the Fire Support Specialist, back then we bracketed. Did you know in the last Iraqi war, they were Fire for Effect on the first round. Do you know how unbelievable that was. I mean in training, we would goof off and try to do the John Wayne, 2nd Round Fire For Effect, with little success. I think they did it to teach us, the method works. Well that method is what ever other army in the world uses. And well it just is not good enough anymore.

Iraq had to be done, we need that shining democracy hill in the Middle East. And because of Iraq, Syria has dissidents now, Iran is afraid to really crack down on their dissidents. Are these not good things?

I think they are.

Posted by: James Stephenson at March 30, 2004 04:26 AM

Mork,

How long will it take to get that through your thick skull?

As long as the facts prove otherwise. How long are you Democrats going to lie about the massive evidence of connections between Al Qaeda and Saddam.

The latest liar is Richard Clarke who happens to be the person behind Clinton's bombing of the pharmaceutical plant in the Sudan in 1998 on the grounds that Iraq and Al Qaeda were jointly producing VX nerve gas there.

You Democrats are a mob of disgraced, sickening liars knowingly and deliberatley undermining our national security.

Posted by: HA at March 30, 2004 04:30 AM

Mork, you forgot that al Qaeda is in Iraq and on the attack. Apparently al Qaeda has its own view of whether there is a link between it and Iraq.

Posted by: Jim at March 30, 2004 05:29 AM

Great post, Michael. Partisan divisions are inevitable, but there ought to be limits on both sides.

Posted by: Oberon at March 30, 2004 05:46 AM

Michale you know more about this that I do, what do incoming administrations do in december and January, when they aren't fighting recounts?

Posted by: billhedrick at March 30, 2004 07:03 AM

This whole 9/11 commission is a waste of time. We have not been taken Islamic terrorism seriously since 1979. Richard Clarke is simply lying when he says it was a top priority in the Clinton administration, it wasn't, they treated everthing on a reactive basis, there was no forward thinking other than we have to get the Peace process solved. But that wasn't clinton's fault really, it was all our fault. No one cared about Jihadists blowing shit up around the world, it was all collateral damage. The price of doing business. We had not the stomach for war. Albright and Powell both admitted that nothing short of war in 1997-98 would have stopped the Twin towers attack. This was not going to happen.

Iraq was a state sponsor of terrorism. They are a linchpin a wider strategy to combat terrorism. That people fail to see this, which has been ably spelled out by Neo-cons and thier supporters, speaks to willful ignorance. My political enemy says it, so it must be untrue. We are changing the face of the middle east, has it be done perfectlty, has their been missteps, absolutely. Bush and company seem to understand that Islamic fundementalism can not be defeated by playing defense, we have to change the equation. Mr. Kerry and all his talk about money to first responders, which is all well and good, but he makes no noise on how to defeat terrorism. France and Germany are not our allies, (though Germany maybe changing thier tune) They perceived their strategic interests as different. Bush did not create this, no amount of talk would have papered over the difference. We thought Saddam had to go, to further our strategic aims in the Middle East. France, Germany and Russia did not because it furthered thier perceived strategic goals (100 billion in contracts, cut us down to size). There was no way to change that. We acted, and France and Germany have to live with thier choices.

Posted by: Kevin at March 30, 2004 07:32 AM

Kevin

I am in complete agreement with you.

Posted by: syn at March 30, 2004 07:44 AM
Is no one embarrassed by the transparent partisanship of this entire charade?

Apparently the people catching mileage from it aren’t . And as distasteful as playing up the charade is to the rest of us ... there can come a point where you have to stop pretending that it isn’t a charade and drive it straight into the ground by playing it up to the hilt. It’s grossly inappropriate to do that in this context, but I can see how some may want to body slam those who are politicizing this just to keep the attention away from themselves.

I would definitely like to see Rice stand up to the attacks and innuendo and make them look small by telling it like it is. But Frum went over the top -- then again, he's paid to, as are his counterparts on the left

Posted by: Bill at March 30, 2004 07:47 AM
This whole 9/11 commission is a waste of time. We have not been taken Islamic terrorism seriously since 1979.

Well heck, I'd take it back earlier when PLO terrorism (and of course, the always fashionably hip Euro-Terrorism) in Europe got its foothold. The west's larger policy of appeasement began well before the mullahs came to power in Iran.

Posted by: Bill at March 30, 2004 07:53 AM

Mork, consider this; any connection, for the purpose of making or supporting war on the West, between Saddam's Iraq and al Qaeda need not be defined as 'in league with,' 'in bed with,' or even, as you put it "virtually(??) nothing to do with," in order to for them both to be effective at it. They merely have to want the same thing, as a matter of mutual benefit. Terror is somewhat fungible and strikes from one camp help all others. And remember the $25K per suicide bomber from Saddam to the Palestinians.

This is rather like the relationship between MoveOn and the DNC, isn't it? They're not legally connected—either financially or in-kind—as that is contrary to campaign finance law. But, if MoveOn disappeared tomorrow, would that not hurt Kerry? Is not their "un-connected" movement in the same direction symbiotic?

Posted by: Stephen at March 30, 2004 08:00 AM

Michael -- you said "The US government had a weak response to Al Qaeda before 911."

I'm more concerned about our response after 911. What did you think about our decision not to go after Bin Laden in Tora Bora? And given our support for and close working relationship with the previous Spanish government, aren't you concerned that Madrid took EVERYONE by surprise?
Al-Qaeda doesn't need state sponsorship to accomplish its goals. I'm with you and Bob Kerrey on the need to take out Saadam. Now that that's done Bush or Kerry need to realize that the biggest threats to American security are planning their shit now in London and Kariachi, not Damascus or Tehran.
I bet they both do.

Posted by: Markus Rose at March 30, 2004 08:09 AM

Michael,

Thanks. I think you are right on target, and am glad that you've taken something of a step back from the atmosphere I've seen here recently in the comments sections, which seems to be composed of mostly partisan batting practice. I've thought the finger-pointing part of it was doomed to be a point scoring game from the beginning, because the evaluation of "did the admin do enough" is so subjective.

For those who are genuinely concerned about the problem of terrorism, we must focus our attention on current and future policies. And especially on getting as good and honest an assessment as possible of how things are going in the various fronts of this battle, so that we can proceed sensibly.

I find myself to be very concerned with how things are going in Iraq right now, and especially concerned with the disparate views given by the two opposing partisan echo chambers. Much of the view from instapundit downstream seems to be pro-war, gung-ho, see-no-evil triumphalism. And while this acts as something of an antidote to the controversy-addicted mainstream press, I'm unwilling to let my hopes for spreading democracy and my feelings that such a development is crucial allow me to accept all good news at face value and dismiss contradictory evidence as treasonous and/or simply politically motivated drivel. I'm also unwilling to accept the election-driven defeatist claims of the left, which sees an increase in terrorist support as Bush's fault, an inevitability, a foregone conclusion, and so on.

I think we could all benefit from an attempt at an even-handed examination that rounds up all the stuff that supports both "things are going great" and "things are falling apart," because I've seen both, and I don't know what to think.

The best evidence for things going well so far? IMO, that recent ABC poll of Iraqis which suggested slow progress and feeling of hope on the part of the population. The best evidence of chaos rising? This exntensive account from on-the-ground journalist Nir Rosen over at Reason.

This latter scares the wits out of me, because my primary reason for opposing an invasion of Iraq was simply that I didn't think the prospects for successful democratic reform were all that great in a country where a ruthless dictator had oppressed a variety of groups that had natural antipathy for one another.

Posted by: bk at March 30, 2004 08:38 AM

HA: You Democrats are a mob of disgraced, sickening liars knowingly and deliberatley undermining our national security.

You aren't getting anywhere with this line of argument. Some far-leftists clearly do thi - those who cheer the Iraqi "resistance" and so on. But Democrats also include Joe Lieberman and Bob Kerrey. And those at all points in between those two and nutjobs like Dennis Kucinich. You acknowledge who you think are good Democrats, from your point of view, but you need to remember that there are more than two kinds.

Posted by: Michael J. Totten at March 30, 2004 08:39 AM

Markus: I'm more concerned about our response after 911. What did you think about our decision not to go after Bin Laden in Tora Bora?

Huge mistake. I remember yelling at the TV when it was happening and wondering why we went about that operation so half-assed. Lingering fear of casualties? I don't know. But I had a bad feeling about it when I learned the Afghans were going in.

Posted by: Michael J. Totten at March 30, 2004 08:47 AM

HA,

Surely you can do better than the name calling. "You Democrats are a mob of disgraced, sickening liars"..."

Is that really the conversation you want to have?

How can you have an intelligent conversation with someone who disagrees with you, if you use that type of invective? All you do is invalidate yourself.

Again, people who are democrats, like Wesley Clark, like General Shinseki, or Republicans like Pat Robertson, Brent Scowcroft, have a DIFFERENCE OF OPINION, regarding the BEST POLICY. All these people are not "sick", and it would be MUCH better for you to raise the conversation out of the gutter.

Best

Posted by: JC at March 30, 2004 08:51 AM

Markus, Have you ever visited centerfield, a centrist web log? I've found your posts here to be thoughtful and worthwhile in the past, and we'd love to have you on board if you are interested in blogging your own posts as well as posting comments.

I've been trying to stress " I'm more concerned about our response after 911" ever since the Cark imbroglio started. The finger pointing is tiresome.

If you are interested, you can email me at gooblers8@yahoo.com, but let me know you're going to do so here, so that I'll know to check that email address.

Michael, I hope you don't mind this attempt at a little recruitment. We're always looking to provide a forum for thoughtful balanced voices. I've linked to you before as an example of that, and you are able to sometimes attract like minds.

Posted by: bk at March 30, 2004 09:01 AM

bk: Michael, I hope you don't mind this attempt at a little recruitment.

Not at all. And I like Markus, too.

Posted by: Michael J. Totten at March 30, 2004 09:14 AM

The commission is pointless because of its timing which i'm sure was not accidental. It should have been agreed to hold it after the elections.

In terms of partisan struggling- I'm not so sure. I don't give Clinton and his team a free pass. There multiple attacks on the US under his watch and no coordinated, strategic response. That is fact. And the only explanation is that they didn't think they could sell it with the american people and with Europe. That is pathetic and no excuse- that was Clinton's job!

Its only damaging now because of the elections- it raising the nastiness and partisan politics and gives inspiration and platform to trogs like Clarke and opportunities like John Kerry.

I'm not in for this let's forget it all and forgive. Nonsense. Why? Because it undercuts and diminishes the whole rationale for essential processes within the government. First: Presidential elections. The trite question now- does character matter>? The American people think that it does precisely because at the end of the day, the mess it can create (see Clinton) distracts from the job and puts in the country in danger. But this was and continues to be poo-pooh'd by Dems and Liberals. Its a high standard- but there is a reason. The other process is appointments- judicial and cabinet. The Dems held up the process and people were in not in positions in a reasonable time. This put our country further at risk. That's a fact. It won't do to sweep these things under teh carpet- it would be better to bring out the rationale and communicate it to the public

The problem here is timing- we're in an election year in a critical time in a war and a peace-rebuilding process. The Dems have an obligation to keep the discourse in the nation's best interest- even if it increases the chances they'll lose the election.

Posted by: Richard at March 30, 2004 09:24 AM

If Thomas Freidman can admit it, then so can I. I haven't read more than a sentence about the 9/11 hearings. Because
we are in an election year, because Congress can't see the stench of death on the other side of the Potomac anymore, I knew this was going to be a farce.

Deep down, I get the feeling that if this country were really felt in survival mode, the current leadership on both sides of the party would melt away as silly artifacts of peace time, and some hard-nosed pragmatists would start running the show.
I was really impressed by this country's response immediately after 9/11. Much less impressed by what is going on now.

Posted by: Robert.Hanckel@oracle.com at March 30, 2004 09:31 AM

For many leftists, underlying the partisan attack machine is a fundamental belief that terrorism is simply not a big threat. For many democratic voters, the issue doesn't even come up on the radar screen in response to pollster questions about the most important issues facing America. If they really thought it was a threat, then the partisanship over the commission would probably fade away.

That the terror threat is not resonating with millions of Democrat constituents speaks to real problems in the successful prosecution of the war. It suggests that the fundamental divide is not necessarily over POLICY choices of fighting the war, but whether to fight the war at all. Statements like John Kerry saying it's a "law enforcement issue" don't help this perception either. Of course there are the few, the select few democrats, who really to perceive the threat (like Lieberman). But the reason why we know of them is because they're so few and far between.

And so we have a situation whereby the war on terror is blamed on Bush in an inadvertant hope that it will uplift the electoral prospects of a Democrat who probably wouldn't prosecute the war on terror with the same vigor. This partisanship will probably determine if another attack happens in America.

Posted by: Sydney Carton at March 30, 2004 10:18 AM

Ugh. No. Can we please not go there?

For God’s sake leave the Florida recount out of the national security debate. This is far more petty and partisan and obnoxious than anything Richard Clarke has said. I can hardly imagine anything less relevant.

Really? How's it stack up against the Democrats wailing that Clinton would have done a better job with AQ had we not been after him about lying under oath? I agree the comment you cite is distasteful.... but if one is valid, Mike, ya gotta take both, I'm afraid.

Posted by: Bithead at March 30, 2004 10:52 AM

This is worth a look, in all this: years before Clarke was saying the exact opposite, he did indeed believe Al Qaeda was working with Saddam. Hitchens dredged up this choice quote from The Age of Sacred Terror:

http://slate.msn.com/id/2097901/

[H]ow do you explain the conviction, shared by Clarke and [Sacred Terror authors] Benjamin and Simon, that Iraq was behind Bin Laden's deadly operation in Sudan? The Age of Sacred Terror justifies the Clinton strike on Khartoum on the grounds that "Iraqi weapons-scientists" were linked to Bin Laden's factory and that the suggestive chemical EMPTA, detected at the site, was used only by Iraq to make VX nerve gas. At the time, Clarke defended the bombing in almost the same words, telling the press that *** he was "sure" that "intelligence existed linking bin Laden to Al Shifa's current and past operators, the Iraqi nerve gas experts and the National Islamic Front in Sudan." *** The U.N. arms inspector upon whom all three relied at the time, for corroborating evidence implicating Saddam, was a man who has since become famous: David Kay.

---

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MJT/JC,

I hear what you guys are saying. Really.

But I am so sick of this orchestrated campaign of lies on the part of the Democrats leadership. They know they are lying and they repeat the same shit day after day after day. Some spread the lies out of ignorance but take their cues from someone higher up in the food chain. Some spread the lies even though they know they are lies in spite of the damage it is doing to the country out of naked partisanship. Some spread the lies even though they know they are lies BECAUSE of the damage it is doing to the country. And when they've milked one lie for all its worth, they come out with another one.

There are a handful of responsible Democratic politicians, but they have been marginalized. I have no problem with honest policy disagreements. But that is not the situation we face today, and certainly not the situation with blog discussions dominated by news junkies who obviously know better. Rank-and-file Democrats are a different matter. They just buy the arguments of the party that they have always trusted without question.

The Democrats had their chance to debate the policy to invade Iraq back in the fall of 2002. They failed to voice their dissent back then and a majority of Senate Democrats even voted in favor of authorizing the invasion of Iraq. And after having been virtually silent for 2 years, in comes Howard Dean like a bottle of whiskey at an AA meeting and all hell breaks lose.

The inmates are running the Democratic asylum. And there is no use trying to have a reasoned argument with the insane.

Posted by: HA at March 30, 2004 02:41 PM

Makes me wish Joe Biden hadn't have been laid low over a scandal about, what was it?, plagiarism.

Plagiarism? Fer Cripes sake, I think that's it, and what with speechwriters and such putting words in politcians mouths all the time.

I dont really know if I remember the circumstances correctly, but in a perfect world Biden would be the donks' candidate.

Posted by: DaveC at March 30, 2004 04:47 PM

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Posted by: HA at March 31, 2004 02:33 AM

Michael, thanks for some more common sense ("Ugh..."). Again.
Both sides have the same arguments, and the same arguments, and even more of the same arguments.
And both sides feel bad that they can't win the other side over to their side.
Most facts don't help.

And it's easier to want to "rub their noses in it", than to be patient or reasonable. Um, er, yes; I've indulged elsewhere in Condi channeling Frum or even more Left-baiting stuff. It's a fun fantasy in a prospectively grim 8 month campaign. X-Hate at least is easy, if not so successful at changing anybody's mind.

Successful Iraq democracy will help, when it develops, but 18 months is pretty short -- look at Kosovo 4 years later; or Bosnia, Rwanda, Somalia.

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Kevin said:
"Albright and Powell both admitted that nothing short of war in 1997-98 would have stopped the Twin towers attack."

War with whom? Malaysia? Germany? (Where Atta was getting his planning degree...)

Actually, it is likely the attack would have been foiled if the CIA had put two of the 9/11 terrorists on its interagency antiterror watch list in December 1999, when it discovered them at an Al-Qaeda meeting in Malaysia, or the following month, when it discovered that they had applied for US visas (!!!). Instead they waited until August 2001 until putting them on the list. One of them moved to San Diego, attended flight school, and lived unnoticed in a building whose landlord was an informant for the F.B.I.

This is why we have the goddamn 9-11 commission, to publicize shit like this and hopefully stirr up some outrage over the fact that the two CIA officials specifically responsible for this oversight are still in the counterterrorism force, and their supervisor, the director of operations for the CIA's Al-Qaeda unit in 2000, has since been promoted within the agency. If the findings of the commission muddies the water a bit by spreading the blame around, and this puts a crimp in Republican National Committee plans to run ads this fall featuring photos of Bill Clinton or Democratic candidates running for office morphing into photos of Bin-Laden - so much the better.

My problem with the neo-cons and with the Bush Administration, Kevin, is not that they want to overthrow the states that sponsor terrorists and replace them with democracies. My problem with them is that their interest in this part of the war comes at the expense of pretty much everything else that matters:
1. shoring up homeland security.
2. improving intelligence and interagency cooperation.
3. fostering international support.
4. fighting terrorists, their financiers and suppliers that live, plan, train and operate in countries like England, Germany, France, Pakistan, Malaysia, Indonesia, Phillipines, Moldova, Ukraine, Jordan, Egypt, Morocco, Canada, United States...

Posted by: Markus Rose at March 31, 2004 07:52 AM

Be careful what you ask for, you may get it. And the Dem's got it. Condi's turn is coming up. Free publicity courtesy of the Dems.

I'm personally glad Bush caved in on this one. Condi's no slouch. In fact, she's probably the most competent of the Bushies, and likable. This hearing will backfire in a huge way on the Dems, and Condi will come out smelling like a rose. She'll be able to write her own ticket after this, even on a presidential ticket I think. Clarke? He'll never work in that town again.

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Posted by: HA at March 31, 2004 06:28 PM

I'm coming to this game late, but I'll toss this out in case anyone wants to bite. I saw the blurb on Instapundit, but I had a different take on Frum's message than the one discussed above.

I didn't see it as suggesting that Rice slam the Democrats via Clinton's record in the '90s. I saw the "How dare you?" as directed at the Senate, accusing the members of the Commission of grandstanding for political purposes rather than confronting their lack of oversight during the '90s. I'd say that's a pretty equal-opportunity criticism for the most part--I'm a Republican, and I wouldn't give my guys a free pass on this issue in that context.

Yes, foreign policy and security issues are primarily the bailiwick of the executive branch, but Congress does have general oversight powers--and there is a difference between exercising oversight and the back-seat driving, Monday-morning quarterbacking rhetoric that strikes me as the foundation of the 9/11 Commission. To begin with, I think that an election year is the wrong time for this type of fact-finding. The urge to score cheap political points is just too strong for everyone involved.

Anyway, that was my take on it.

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