March 28, 2004

Why Clarke Annoys

Mark Steyn zeroes in on exactly what it is about Richard Clarke that bugs me.

No, it's not because he's criticizing pre-911 anti-terrorism failures. That's what he's supposed to do. Obviously there's plenty of blame to go around. Neither the Bush nor the Clinton Administrations did a particularly bang-up job, although I'm willing to give both of them a pass for mistakes made before that dreadful date for the same reason I don't blame FDR or Herbert Hoover for Pearl Harbor.

It's this kind of nonsense that's makes it hard for me to take the guy seriously.

The media were very taken by this passage from his book, in which he alerts Mr Bush's incoming National Security Adviser to the terrorist threat: "As I briefed Rice on al-Qa'eda, her facial expression gave me the impression that she had never heard of the term before, so I added, 'Most people think of it as Osama bin Laden's group, but it's much more than that. It's a network of affiliated terrorist organisations with cells in over 50 countries, including the US.' "
Now, when I heard that Clarke had said that, every BS-detector in my head went off. Turns out my instincts were sound.
Mr Clarke would seem to be channelling Leslie Nielsen's deadpan doctor in Airplane!: "Stewardess, we need to get this passenger to a hospital."

"A hospital? What is it?"

"It's a big building with patients, but that's not important right now."

As it turns out, Clarke's ability to read "facial expressions" is not as reliable as one might wish in a "counter-terrorism expert". In October the previous year, Dr Rice gave an interview to WJR Radio in Detroit in which she discoursed authoritatively on al-Qa'eda and bin Laden - and without ever having met Richard Clarke!

Clarke similarly said Bush's "facial expression" ordered him to connect Iraq with Al Qaeda even if there was no connection.

I'm sure Bush had a serious look on his face when he asked Clarke to figure out if Saddam had anything to do with 911. I suspected Saddam might have had a hand in it, and I know plenty of other people who did, too.

Looks like Saddam was out of the loop. And so what? Changing his regime wasn't an act of revenge or retaliation any more than smacking down Adolf Hitler was to punish him for Pearl Harbor.

If Clarke has something substantive to say, we ought hear him out. If he would like to propose a different anti-terror strategy, that would be great - at a separate place and time. Not at the commission that wants to know what went wrong before 911. His "facial expression" testiomony isn't going anywhere and looks a lot like baseless character assasination. (There's a lot of that going around these days on more side than one.) And using his witness chair to gripe about overthrowing Saddam all but guarantees a polarized reaction to his testimony.

Posted by Michael J. Totten at March 28, 2004 04:36 PM
Comments
If he would like to propose a different anti-terror strategy,

Anti-terror strategy? What a "silly" idea!

Posted by: Allah at March 28, 2004 04:41 PM

PBUY Allah.

Further: Rep Shays has also sent a scathing letter to the 911 commission:

at Vodkapundit

"Before September 11, 2001, we held twenty hearings and two formal briefings on terrorism issues. When he brief the Subcommittee, his answers were both evasive and derisive. He said a comprehensive threat assessment, as recommended by GAO, was too difficult."

Posted by: jdwill at March 28, 2004 05:00 PM

One major reason Clarke didn't get the #2 in the Department of Homeland Security (his crowning achievement after 30 years in the government) is his obsession on Cyberterrorism above all other kinds, including 9-11. Even after 9-11 his priority is still on Cyberterrorism.

Posted by: BigFire at March 28, 2004 05:02 PM

It would seem to me that which anti-terror strategy the Bush Administration was (and still is) using has everything to do with 9-11 intelligence failures. If it was focusing mainly on state-sponsored threats from North Korea and Iran and not decentralized groups like Al Qaeda, then it did fail us. Pro-war Newsweek editor Fareed Zakaria wrote his weekly column on this subject:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4615876/

Posted by: Mike Bitondo at March 28, 2004 05:09 PM

Mike,

I can see where too much concern on bad states can lead to a problem. I can also see where ignoring bad states leads to a different sort of problem.

There is no way terrorism is going to end while the Middle East suffers under jihadist despotisms.

Terrorists can be rounded up when they're hiding in the West. But not when they're hiding in, and being funded by, Baghdad, Damascus, Riyadh, and Ramallah.

Posted by: Michael J. Totten at March 28, 2004 05:24 PM

I agree with Steyn, Lileks and you. It seemed that Clarke was too focused on Condi Rice, and that remark gave the game away.

I think this whole commission was a bad idea, obviously destined to become a partisan sideshow. It's making this election more confusing and therefore annoying to voters, who will probably be put off by both parties. Fortunately, the Republicans and Bob Kerrey have tended to try to bring the focus back to what the commission is supposed to determine: what were the intelligence failures prior to 9/11 and what should we learn from it?

The White House should decline to declassify anything. Who needs to know whether Clarke lied then or now? We already know the administration is well rid of him. So far I haven't heard anything from him that we hadn't already learned from 9/11. Why throw chum into a feeding frenzy?

I don't care about who didn't do what before 9/11. It's what we should be doing now, and who will more likely do it that should be discussed. Right after the attacks the answers were obvious. Now, politics and the 'we was robbed' syndrome have taken back over and we're losing our edge. This is one of those times I wish didn't have to have an election, but since we do, I favor FDR's argument: Don't change horses in midstream.

Posted by: AST at March 28, 2004 06:14 PM

I think that a commission dedicated to investigating our actions prior to 9/11 and committed to making beneficial recommendations in order to prevent future attacks is in keeping with our best traditions of self-analysis and oversight of government.

Too bad our minority party needed to CYA for its last chief executive, and is hard pressed to pull this one down.

Steyn's article was a killer, but it's not going to be anything compared to seeing Clarke attempt to reconcile his previous classified testimony with the tapdance/booksale pitch he insulted us with last week.

MJT -

The threat from purely transnational terrorists cannot be dealt with effectively as long as they have willing state sponsors. I believe that the administration's published policy has always been upfront and unambiguous about the objective of the war: the protection of U.S. lives and interests. That our methods will be conventional, unconventional, and covert is a given, simply because of the nature of the threat we face.

I used to think that the term 'draining the swamp' as a euphimism for removing despots and breaking the cycle of misery that is the Arab mideast ticked off certain people because it sounded trite or simplistic. Now I know it angers them not because it is unsound policy, or that we might fail in the effort, but because of the possibility Bush might actually lead us to success.

Will we succeed? I don't know. With as much negative noise and smoke being generated domestically as we have now, I cannot help but think the enemy has valid reason to hold out. They know they don't have to beat our military, just our political will.

It's a sad state of affairs, but here we are.

Posted by: TmjUtah at March 28, 2004 06:58 PM

It appears that Clarke has a problem recognizing a look of revulsion, which is my guess as to the look he was actually getting from Rice.

One can only hope he sees that particular look enough from now on to one day be able to identify it correctly.

Posted by: DennisThePeasant at March 28, 2004 07:00 PM

Actually, I think it's just that when someone who has 20 IQ points on you is thinking hard, she might look a bit glassy eyed to you. So, I'm not sure he's lying about this. His body language on TV doesn't set off my liar radar. He just seems slightly unhinged. In that regard, his jumpy personality may have given him to think, "Sheesh, I don't suppose this black woman is going to know who al Qaeda is."

Moreover, it's incredible that he would tell all these things as lies, knowing that he's on record saying the opposite. I think it may be time to start chalking this us to Clarke's not being put together right, rather than to any mendacity.

Posted by: Jim at March 28, 2004 07:13 PM

Jim: In that regard, his jumpy personality may have given him to think, "Sheesh, I don't suppose this black woman is going to know who al Qaeda is."

Careful. Clarke is jumping to conclusions without evidence, and it looks like you are too. What evidence is there that he's a racist? None that I've seen.

Posted by: Michael J. Totten at March 28, 2004 07:22 PM

What I am really tired of is all these people, not on the Bush payroll I assume, who allow themselves to be totally sucked into the slimy morass of the politics of personal destruction which the WH has orchestrated this week.

Totten chimes in, by totally conflating what Clarke says in his book or on 60 minutes, with what he actually said in his testimony. Michael says "Not at the commission that wants to know what went wrong before 911.". Yeah, well none of the things Michael complains about were said to the commission.

At the commission Clarke made two fundamental points. One: that the Bush adminsistration put terrorism on the back burner. TOTALLY TRUE. Gen. Shelton has said so. Hell, even GEORGE W BUSH HIMSELF has said so. In the Woodward book - Bush at war - "I didnt give terrorism that sense of urgency" = or words to that effect. Go find the quote - and read the context around it. TOTALLY in line with what Clarke has said.

Oh, but he is a liar - I guess cuz he isnt reading the talking points anymore.

Second point Clarke makes - He is upset because, in his view, the Iraq war undermined the war of terrorism.

Somehow, I feel that this is really the nub of it all. I think everyone, if they were honest, would admit that the pre-9/11 story needs to come out, but there are no real political issues there. Clinton was serious, but not serious enough. Bush was serious, but even less "enough" than Clinton. Any of us in the same positions would probably have done the same.
But the real fight, that everyone is dancing around, is the real political issue that needs to be debated. Do we accept the Bush vision of Iraq as central to the WOT, or is it a distraction.

Clarke needs to be destroyed because he brings us the Bush administrations worst nightmare. That this question be brought forth and debated. For once you accept that it can be debated, then Bush loses the presumption that his way is the obvious way. What Clarke has done is NOT to render some objective decision on this point. Clearly he is simply giving us his take on things. But he has suddenly made it stunningly and unambiguously clear that the "Iraq as a diversion" position is NOT only the position of hippie freaks at demonstrations, or angry presidential candidates. It is a perfectly resepctable and serious policy option - one held by this nations foremost expert on counter-terrorism.
ALL of the Bush presumptive advantage on the issue is gone. And now he will have to defend his position on the merits. If any of you remain convinced Bush is right - then you should welcome the debate. But no,,,this vicious and profoundly dishonest ad hominem attack of Clarke makes it clear to me that y'all do not have the courage to deal with the real underlying issues.

I also am beginning to suspect that the reason so many so-called "9/11 democrats" are running away from this whole affiar, is because they too have felt the earth tremble beneath their feet. Many of them have made their entire public reputations and identities as democrats who have bought in completely to Bush's justifications for iraq in terms flowing out of 9/11. And to find someone who clearly knows and understands these issues far better than Bush himself - and who is a non-partisan civil servant at the highest level, trusted by 4 presidents, saying that it aint so....well...

Slime away folks. But dont pretend to yourselves that it isnt obvious what you are doing....

Posted by: tano at March 28, 2004 07:25 PM

You're right, Michael T. I shouldn't jump to the conclusion that he's a bigot.

Posted by: Jim at March 28, 2004 07:42 PM

Tano: Yeah, well none of the things Michael complains about were said to the commission.

Okay, fair enough.

If any of you remain convinced Bush is right - then you should welcome the debate.

We've never stopped debating this. It will continue until after the election, as I think it should.

I also am beginning to suspect that the reason so many so-called "9/11 democrats" are running away from this whole affiar, is because they too have felt the earth tremble beneath their feet.

I can see why you might think that if you feel stronger in your anti-war convictions than you were before. But I haven't budged. Sorry.

I think it was the right thing to do. And I have my reasons. WMD is not one of those reasons and never really was. I said so before the war started, right after the war ended, and I maintain that position today.

Ten months ago in my first TCS column I said the following about the WMD argument:

Paul Berman made the best case for war in Terror and Liberalism. "Freedom for others means safety for ourselves. Let us be for the freedom of others." Like-minded Christopher Hitchens bluntly calls the liberation of Iraq "a slum-clearance program." Both Hitchens and Berman used liberation as the set-piece of their arguments, and history will reward them. Bush's case for war is more in doubt. In the end it is not even relevant, which Bush and his critics both miss. The administration should have known better. Many of Bush's advisers are students of history. They should know, then, to factor in the hindsight-of-history effect. Bush's rationale for invasion obscured the moral dimension of war, and it remains obscured to this day. It muddied the pre-war discussion, and now his critics grab headlines when they gripe about footnotes. Let this be a lesson to him, and those who follow him in office, that the liberal case for war was always the stronger one.

I stood by it then, and I stand by it now.

Posted by: Michael J. Totten at March 28, 2004 07:43 PM

Tano, are you suggesting that the question of whether the liberation of Iraq was a distraction from the WoT has not been debated here at Totten's, as well as all over the larger current events forum in America? I would have said it was thoroughly debated for over a year in both places. Perhaps you psychologize "9-11 democrats" on the basis of a false premise.

Posted by: Jim at March 28, 2004 07:49 PM

Changing his regime wasn't an act of revenge or retaliation any more than smacking down Adolf Hitler was to punish him for Pearl Harbor.

Hang on a sec!

At the time Japan attacked Pear Harbor, Germany and Japan were allies. Following the United States' declaration of war on Japan, Germany declared war on the U.S. (not the other way round).

Your analogy, then, might have worked if there were some sort of alliance between Al Qaeda and Iraq, or if the U.S. had responded to Pearl Harbor by attacking some entirely unrelated bad guy, such as the Soviet Union.

Small point, maybe, but it seems to me to indicate that you still have not let the fact of the absence of an Iraq/Al Qaeda connection to catch up with your world view.

Posted by: Mork at March 28, 2004 07:59 PM

Kimmitt:

are you still "amused" ?

Posted by: David at March 28, 2004 08:03 PM

It's always worth fact-checking Mark Steyn.

He trumpets Dr. Rice's Detroit radio interview to refute Clarke's suggestion that she did not recognize the name "Al Qaeda", which he said he explained by saying that "most people think of it as Osama bin Laden's group."

As far as I can tell from the media reports, Rice did NOT actually refer to "Al Qaeda" in the radio interview. Instead, she referred to Osama Bin Laden by name.

Now, if you were trying to explain what AQ was to someone, and you knew that they were aware of OBL was, how would go go about it?

Posted by: Mork at March 28, 2004 08:10 PM

No Jim,
I am not making the case that this argument has not been joined - by political junkies like those of us here. Thank goodness it is a free country, and some of us will be arguing every concievable issue. I am talking about the "debate" on the grander scale - in the public at large, and at the "level of the principals". Bush himself has never had to defend the notion of the conflation of iraq and the WOT. He asserts it blandly, and uses the conflation as the fallback argument for the involvement in iraq. No WMD? NO al-Q link? No grand liberalizing plan going in? Doesnt matter. It is part of the WOT. What do you, support bin Laden?

After taking down the Taliban, something almost everyone is on board with, there came a moment of enormous strategic decision. What now? Of all the infinite number of possibilites, Bush chose to go to war with Iraq. Was that the right decision?
This is a different question than - are we glad Saddam is gone? Are we all hopefully excited that Muhammad al-Jefferson might be pushing his way to the fore in the Iraqi body politic? Yes, we are all glad Saddam is gone. And we all would love to see Iraq as a liberal democracy - irrespective of our views on how likely that is to be the outcome.
But was going to war with Iraq the best option for the United States, at this point in time? Is it part of a wise policy?

Clarke has laid out three reasons why he thinks Iraq is a diversion; let me just raise two here.

One: By shifting military, intel, and local exepertise assets away from Afghanistan to Iraq, we have totally lost momentum on breaking al-Q. In the interim, they have regrouped and metastisized into a "hydra-headed" organization such that taking out OBL now would not make much difference, and their capacities are at least as great now as they were pre-9/11. I dont know if that is true, but I accept him as an immensly knowlegable commentator on that topic.

Two: That we have provided the fuel for allowing recruitment to this invigorated al-Q by playing directly into bin Ladens propaganda. Apparently bin Laden was long claiming that any response by us would probably entail attacking and occupying an oil-rich country in the region, that had nothing to do with the attacks. So now, many of those crazy young Arab men see bin Laden as a wise truth teller, who has got our number. And that it really is all about domination, and resources.

I dont know if these points are valid. I have suspected them myself, and it is interesting to see that someone in his position can hold them too. These are the issues that should be discussed, not the latest piece of slime dished out by the politicos.

Posted by: tano at March 28, 2004 08:28 PM

Mork, Steyn spoke the truth. Rice did "discourse authoritatively on al Qaeda." If Mork's right, then she had a good understanding of OBL's group, an appreciation of its threat to the U.S., and a strategy for dealing with it, but she didn't know that the group was called "al Qaeda." This seems unlikely.

Posted by: Jim at March 28, 2004 08:30 PM

OK, Jim, I've searched, and the most complete account of the radio interview I can find is from NewsMax, and it says that Rice referred to Bin Laden by name and then said the following:

You really have to get the intelligence agencies better organized to deal with the terrorist threat to the United States itself. One of the problems that we have is a kind of split responsibility, of course, between the CIA and foreign intelligence and the FBI and domestic intelligence.

There needs to be better cooperation because we don't want to wake up one day and find out that Osama bin Laden has been successful on our own territory.

Now, if that is the total of her reference to Al Qaeda in that interview, wouldn't you agree that Steyn was exaggerating (well, lying) when he said that she "discourse(d) authoritatively on Al Qaeda"?

Posted by: Mork at March 28, 2004 08:50 PM

Wow, talk about clutching at straws. "[H]er facial expression gave me the impression that she had never heard of the term before" is a statement of fact about Clarke's impression, not about whether Rice had heard of al Qaeda. To then connect it to Clarke's account of the 9/12 situation room meeting - which the White House denied, then sort of denied, then un-denied - to undermine him looks like desperation. Remember, there were other witnesses to that meeting, too. Who do they back up, George "I don't recall" Bush or Clarke?

Posted by: Mithras at March 28, 2004 09:26 PM

I would hardly refer to directly contradictory testimonies as "clutching at straws". You know what I'm talking about, don't make me google it.

Posted by: David at March 28, 2004 09:29 PM

Sorry, but the comment about Rice not knowing about Al Qaeda does not pass the credibility test. Just for fun, I googled the newsgroups for posts mentioning Al Qaeda prior to January 21, 2001. Result: 338 mentions, in newsgroups ranging from soc.culture.malaysia to talk.politics.mideast to alt.current-events.clinton.whitewater. Almost all of them refer to Al Qaeda as Bin Laden's organization, all come after the US embassy bombings in 1998. Some of them quote articles from such esoteric foreign policy journals as Time and Newsweek. There is no way that Condi did not know what Al Qaeda was if she could talk authoritatively about Bin Laden. Nice try, though.

Posted by: Pat Curley at March 28, 2004 09:33 PM

There is no way that Condi did not know what Al Qaeda was if she could talk authoritatively about Bin Laden.

I ask again: where's the evidence that she "could talk authoritively about Bin Laden"?

Pre 9/11, I could name-drop Bin Laden. But I'd never heard of Al Qaeda.

Posted by: Mork at March 28, 2004 09:39 PM

Mork, this is what more I could find of the interview (via Crooow Blog):

RICE: The truth of the matter is that terrorists who are just operating out there without basis and without state support are a lot less dangerous than ones that find safe haven, as bin Laden does sometimes in places like Afghanistan or Sudan. [snip] This has to be a consistent effort, and you also have to try and build alliances and coalitions with other states that are potentially suffering from the rise of these, uh, kinda radical fundamentalism. Not all Muslim states are radical fundamentalist. We have some very strong allies in the Muslim world.[...]

Posted by: Jim at March 28, 2004 09:42 PM

OK, Jim, that's more than I could find. I'd say the jury will stay out on that one. If she'd gone on to speak of OBL controlling an organisation that had cells throughout the west, I would have considered the point proved.

Posted by: Mork at March 28, 2004 09:50 PM

This is so silly. Mithras has it just right. Clarke was not saying that she had never heard of al-Q. He said she looked like, to him, that she had never heard of it.
Which is a way of saying, obviously, that whether she had heard of them or not, she didnt feel that they were much of an issue to discuss with the nations counter-terrorism chief.

Posted by: tano at March 28, 2004 10:25 PM

All this is kind of moot, since Rice won't testify under oath about what she knew. Steyn should go back to spreading rumors about Kerry's private life.

Posted by: Steve Smith at March 28, 2004 11:34 PM

Steve: Steyn should go back to spreading rumors about Kerry's private life.

He writes well and is often funny, but if he does that I won't link it because I don't care.

Posted by: Michael J. Totten at March 28, 2004 11:55 PM

Tano,

Your point about the invasion of Iraq boosting Al-Qaida recruiting is an important one. Many opponents of the Iraqi war hold this up as one of their chief objections to the war. It's a very intuitive, common-sense position. But I never could accept it as valid.

On a superficial level, it is true. We were poking the hornets nest. Al-Qaida's #1 complaint (these days) is the occupation of Iraq and it is the main focus of their recruiting. Attacking Iraq and occupying it made (makes) many Muslims very angry. Angy Muslims are more likely to join al-Qaida. We have no proof about recruiting numbers but it is likely that the number of young Muslims joining and aspiring to join terror groups has grown.

Or rather, we should say that this number has continued to grow, because it is crucial to remember that the "anger" and "rage" that we identify as one of the "root causes" has been growing for over a decade (actively cultivated by many Arab and Islamic governments, including Saddam's). One of the many factors was our policy of containment of Saddam, which Saddam used to score propaganda victories against us - in this respect, the connection between Iraq and al-Qaida is as clear as day, regardless of how weak the contacts between Saddam's Mukhabarat, Ansar al-Isalm & al-Qaida. Read Osama's old Fatwa from '96.

Al-Qaida recruiting continued throughout our attack on Afghanistan too. Remember the truckloads of Pakistanis who poured across the boarder to join the Taliban? The main point is this: you cannot fight the War on Terror with the idea that you cannot anger Muslims. If there had been no attack on Iraq, al-Qaida would still be recruiting using something else. Saying al-Qaida recruiting would have declined marginally is wishful thinking, speculation that ignores several crucial realities about the nature of terrorism. Unless you're willing to end all support for Israel, you will continue to be a major target of hatred in the Islamic world, regardless of Iraq. But even if you want to distance ourselves from Israel, it's foolish to believe that granting concessions on this front would keep us off their target list for long.

The media, press and religious authorities of the Arab and Islamic world are all un-free and all united by ideology (Islamic or Nationalist) to spread malice and outright propaganda toward their selected enemies and deflect internal dissent, it is impossible to try to assuage this hatred for America. They've already been at this incitement for 10 years and longer. (I also want to add that another major factor in Al-Qaida recruiting is not simply Islamic "frustration" at perceived injustice, but triumphalism - believing in the possibility of success, joining the winning team, "the strong horse." But that's a topic for another post.)

This is why in the long-term, invading Iraq, deposing Saddam and establishing a democracy is a key step - not a detour - on the road to victory in the War on Terror. The other options, continued containment or withdrawal, would not have done any good. While the occupation may increase al-Qaida recruiting temporarily, we now are striking at the root causes of this anger - oppression and stagnation. More than sheer recruiting, sponsorship (direct) and other less direct forms of support are being undermined through several different approaches in all of the other countries. In each of these cases, the Iraq war had furthered the cause more effectively than continued containment or withdrawal could have. The unacceptable status quo ante-9/11 has been smashed. (Remaining) Rogue regimes have been taught a lesson - not only about U.S. willingness to resort to regime change, but also about their own peoples' support. Iraqis' opinion of the U.S. is decidedly mixed but their opinion of Saddam was near unanimous and their opinions about the future are quite refreshing. There's a reason why al-Qaida is desperate to import Jihadis from other countries and why they are now targeting Kurds, Shiites, NGOs, and Spain.

Posted by: John in Tokyo at March 29, 2004 01:30 AM

Clarke obviously needs lessons on interpreting facial expressions. Rice's expression was saying:

Why am I wasting my time talking with the ass-covering bureaucrat who was largely responsible for the failed Clinton counter-terrorism policies? I should just fire his sorry ass!

Posted by: HA at March 29, 2004 03:39 AM

Mike Bitondo,

If it was focusing mainly on state-sponsored threats from North Korea and Iran and not decentralized groups like Al Qaeda, then it did fail us.

Transnational terror groups like Al Qaeda REQUIRE cooperation and/or support of states in order to survive. They need bases, materials, equipment, passports, intelligence, funding, etc. They get that from states like Iran, NK, Syria and SA. They don't get it from Saddam, the Taliban and apparently Libya any more.

The states that sponsor terrorism do so because prior to 9/11, terrorism was the most effective tool of statecraft they had. Bush's overthrow of the Taliban and Saddam changed that equation. Now, sponsoring terrorism may get you regime change instead of success in policy goals. That is why Libya capitulated.

The Kerry/Clinton policy of treating terrorism as criminal act is a proven failure. It gave us 9/11. Terrorism is an act of war and Bush's policy of overthrowing regimes that sponsor terrorism is the ONLY way we can win this war.

Posted by: HA at March 29, 2004 03:55 AM

Michael,

This one is very simple. Clarke was the U.S. "anti-terror" guy from the 1993 World Trade Center bombing to the 2001 World Trade Center bombing. In his tenure, he did nothing. He spent most of his time ranting about e-mail that that DREADED Y2K bug. HORRORS!

His actions are an attempt to skew attention away from the fact that he was the guy in the seat when America fell under terrorist attacks for the first, second, third and fourth times.

Clarke was a failure at his job - and now he is a failure at being a "whistle blower". Turns out that when your whistle blowing consists of mainly covering your own ass for failure to act and failure to take a threat seriously for almost a decade most people understand that. Most people also see that Clarke's actions are a cheap effort to cash in on the polarized electorate and to help out his friend, John Kerry.

Posted by: Roark at March 29, 2004 05:27 AM
All this is kind of moot, since Rice won't testify under oath about what she knew.

That, of course, is a complete and utter lie. Rice testified for four hours under oath in front of the panel in private session.

Steyn should go back to spreading rumors about Kerry's private life.

pot....

kettle....

black.

Posted by: TomB at March 29, 2004 05:57 AM

Michael quoted, in his original piece on this subject, a line from Matt Yglesias. I am still kinda wondering what the answer to the question is.

"The "serious allegations" would turn on Clarke's credibility if and only if administration figures would explain in a clear manner which of the allegations are not true and what is untrue about them. They have not done so."

We have plenty of Clarke bashers around here. Would any of them care to stop their absurd venting for a moment and focus on telling us just exactly what it is that Clarke has "lied" about?

Seems to me that the "Bush put it on a back burner' charge has turned out to be true - in Bush's own words, plus the testimony of others. The Bush conversation in the Sit room also turns out to have actually happened, even though it was the WH that LIED for days by denying it. The press briefing also, if you take the time to actaully read it, seems very carefully worded to tell the truth, but with a pro-Bush spin. Agreeing to things "in principle", even though they never actually happened - for example.

So where are the lies? What is the great character assination attempt all about?

I continue to believe that the real purpose is to try to prevent any discussion of the really important issue (from Bush's POV). THat Clarke views the Iraq war as a distraction. We cant let the discussion drift towards that. So lets destroy this guy first.

I am beginning to suspect though, that the "clarke is a liar" campaign is beginning to implode. Tends to happen when you are just running on fumes. And those who have waged it will most deservedly get bit in the butt by it.

Posted by: tano at March 29, 2004 06:03 AM

Okay, I've been hesitant to weigh in on this because, frankly, I'm having real trouble separating out the bullshit. From what I have been reading (which goes well before Clark's rise to media prominence), it's looking more and more like there was a bit of a Republican/Democrat pissing match over this department associated with the change from Clinton to Bush. I don't know, I'm still sorting this out. However, if that is the case, then I can add that to my list of reasons while I will probably always be independant.

Two things strike me though:

1) Clark makes accusations against the Republican Party - The Republicans appear to be responding primarily by attacking Clark. Standard issue stuff too - "he was never in the loop" [Really?, he's been involved in this since the Reagan administration - I would tend to think he probably was the loop], "He's an arrogant bastard" [Okay, so was Goering during WWI, but he was also a heck of a pilot], "He contradicts himself" [maybe, but I think that's straight out the the standardized Republican handbook of personal attacks]. You want to discredit Clark, shoot down his accuasations and drop the "pay no attention to the man behind the curtain defense", it doesn't wash with me.

2) Why did we take so long to get started? I ask this from the standpoint of someone with at least 15 years background in combative sports (mostly weapons combat). When somebody decisively gets through your guard, all you want to know is, "how did they do that?" and "what can I do about it?". Ego goes right out the window, the only thing that matters at that moment is, "what just happened here?". It's very hard for me to understand why, after watching the WTC collapse, a massive investigative undertaking didn't immediatly take place. Just like my ego ceases to matter when I've been out-manuvered (I usually start by asking my opponent how he did that), I would think that any partisan bikkering and fingerpointing would similarly be put aside until this matter is sorted out. It is deeply disappointing that it appears it didn't happen that way.

anyway, let the flood of rebuttals commence.

Posted by: Joe at March 29, 2004 06:03 AM
We have plenty of Clarke bashers around here. Would any of them care to stop their absurd venting for a moment and focus on telling us just exactly what it is that Clarke has "lied" about?

Clarke has admitted lying in the 2002 conference call, seeing as how his comments at the time were 180 degrees out of line with his testimony.

There's also differences between his book and his 60 minutes interview:

Richard Clarke, at War With Himself

So, was he lying then or is he lying now?

As far as Frist's accusations go, since that testimony has yet to be released, we can't say.

Posted by: TomB at March 29, 2004 06:16 AM

Michael, I'm sure you agree the important question is whether any of the shortcomings in our pre-9/11 terror strategy REMAIN. For instance, have the FBI, CIA and Justice Depts. stopped fighting and started to cooperate on intelligence exchanges? Do we have enough Arab translators? etc.etc. And in this regard, what the Bush and his Appointeess did in 2001 is more important than what the Clinton and his Appointees did because the Bush folks are still in charge.

On the the question of Condi Rice, I think the real story is that a bunch of people in Washington think that she is simply not up to snuff as National Security Advisor. Clarke is not the first person to do this. It's a whispering campaign that has been going on for awhile. Aren't you interested in knowing if the accusations and suspicions have any merit? The call for her to testify publicly, which would put her actions under much closer examination than they have been, is coming from people like Thomas Kean who are aware of the same concerns.

Bush and Rove have responded to this by instructing Ann Coulter, Bob Novak and other press minions, to do their best Jesse Jackson imitations.

Posted by: markus rose at March 29, 2004 06:42 AM

TomB,
Sorry, but I dont see you answering my question at all. In fact it seems that you are the one who is taking upon yourself a real credibility problem. Would you care to show me where it is that Clarke has "admitted lying"? As far as I know, he has done the complete opposite. He has said that he told the truth, but spun the truth in the way that the WH wanted him to. I.e. the same thing that every WH staffer and appointee does on a daily basis.

I actually read your Time article link. It does not in any way reveal any instance of Clarke lying. The article is one long complaint about the tone of Clarke's remarks - essentially that he is just one big meanie for speaking his mind in a hard edged manner. And since he is talking about politicians, then he must be a partisan hack himself. I dont see it.

The article mentions the Sit room situation. When you cut through all the blather, the article actually admits that Clarke was telling the truth about the facts. The only "discrepancy" was whether Bush was "in your face aggressive" or just "testy". Clarke apparently has painted both pictures. Seems to me to be essentially the same picture, and hardly a lie, or even an inconsistency.
The article goes on to discuss the lack of a "principals' meeting until September - once agian, the author complains about Clarke's tone, but has no evidence that anything he said is wrong.
The author also seems to complain about Clarke's charge that the Bushies "did nothing" - pointing out that in fact Condi set in motion the process of developing a plan to roll back al-Q. I'll grant the author this - he does admit that in the end, the plan that emerged was the same plan that Clarke had submitted in January. If you were the author of a plan in Jan. and the only thing that happened over eight months was that your boss at some points asks for a plan, and finally accepts the same plan you gave her in Jan. - would you be justified in saying that she had "done nothing"?
I think so.

Still have yet to hear any substantive charge against Clarke's credibility...

Posted by: tano at March 29, 2004 06:49 AM

are you still "amused" ?

Highly.

Posted by: Kimmitt at March 29, 2004 07:32 AM

Roark, in fairness if we are not going to blame Bush for 9-11 because it happened on his watch, I don't think we can turn around and blame Clarke because it happened while he was terrorism czar.

Joe appears to get his "never in the loop" comment from the New York Times; in fact, what Cheney said is "Well, he wasn't -- he wasn't in the loop, frankly, on a lot of this stuff." Never is not the same thing as not.

Now Cheney appears to be wrong on this point, but understandably wrong, because Clarke did not appear at the cabinet meetings, but at the deputy meetings. And I don't see it as an attack, just as a rebuttal of Clarke's allegations. The other stuff, "arrogant", etc., yeah, that strikes me as non-substantive attacks.

Tano, surely you agree that Clarke was either lying in the background interview he gave to Jim Angle and others or lying to the 9-11 commission? You can say he was lying to protect his boss, but you have to admit that if you buy the 9-11 commission testimony, then he was lying to Angle.

Posted by: Pat Curley at March 29, 2004 07:32 AM

"Tano, surely you agree that Clarke was either lying in the background interview he gave to Jim Angle and others or lying to the 9-11 commission?"

Pat, this is precisely my point. You say "surely you agree....". And give no reason for me to agree.
You are basically asking me whether I am so blind as to not want to jump on the WH bandwagon, and agree that he was lying. Even though there is NO EVIDENCE that he was.

You think you have evidence in the backgrounder? What is it? I am of course, just repeating my question. WHat did he say that was untrue? And given that that backgrounder was given, almost without question, with the apporval of Condi Rice, then EVEN IF you find something in it that is not true, then why turn on Clarke - it would undermine Rice and the administration's credibility every bit as much. Are you willing to admit that?

But in any case, tell me - what is false in what he said?

Posted by: tano at March 29, 2004 07:54 AM

TomB, could you source the bolded part of your statement - "Rice testified for four hours under oath in front of the panel in private session?"

Thanks.

Posted by: Hipocrite at March 29, 2004 08:25 AM

"There was no plan on al Qaeda that was passed from the Clinton administration to the Bush administration."

-- Richard Clarke background briefing to reporters, August 2002

___________________________________________________

Jamie Gorelick: "When Dr. Rice writes in the Washington Post, 'No al Qaeda plan was turned over to the new administration,' is that true?"

CLARKE: "No. I think what is true is what your staff found by going through the documents and what your staff briefing says, which is that early in the administration, within days of the Bush administration coming into office, that we gave them two documents. In fact, I briefed Dr. Rice on this even before they came into office.

-- exchange during 9/11 Commission Hearing, March 24, 2004

Posted by: TomB at March 29, 2004 08:25 AM

My bad, she did testify, but not under oath.

Apologies.

Posted by: TomB at March 29, 2004 08:36 AM

Hey Michael,

how bout a new post. The Clarke story truly does annoy.

Posted by: David at March 29, 2004 08:38 AM

HA, you moron. You just don't get it just like Bush, Cheney, Wolfowitz, Rice et al. Al Qeada does not require state sponsorship to operate. It requires money which can easily be obtained by credit card fraud or drug dealing, it requires access to materials which could be your local Home Depot or Wal-mart and it requires recruits which come running after every American or Israeli affront to the Moslem world.
BTW, maybe Rice reaction to Clarke mentioning Al Qaeda was because she was shocked that Clarke thought there was no connection between Iraq and Al Qaeda. Also, when Cheney claimed that Clarke was not in the loop, maybe he wasn't referring to the Al Qaeda loop but the 'lets blame Saddam for 9/11 and take him out' loop.
Finally, the only democracy that will appear in Iraq is likely to vote for a theocratic government. Any idea that democracy will make the Moslem world more favorable to Western ideas is pie-in-the-sky while Israel continues to occupy Palestine.

Posted by: anti-troll at March 29, 2004 08:59 AM

TomB,
Lets look at this carefully.
What are the facts?

Clarke had prepared this plan. It was NOT put into place by the Clinton administration. He then gave it to Condi on Jan. 25.

Question: Was there a plan "passed from the Clinton administration to the Bush administration." ?

No, not really. The Clinton administraion had not signed onto Clarke's plan. Backgrounder statement true.

Question 2: Was an "al Qaeda plan... turned over to the new administration,"?

Yes. A plan was turned over to Rice - Clarke's plan, not necessarily an approved Clinton administration plan. So Clarkes 9/11 testimony is true too.
Ya gotta read all the words carefully.

Posted by: tano at March 29, 2004 09:02 AM

...as long as I'm ranting....

Just heard more of this on the radio, this time about Rice. If Rice has pertinant info, she needs to give it up - under oath, for the record, and available under the freedom on information act. While it's not necessary to broadcast the interview for four hours in the heart of Times Square like we did for a sitting president not too long ago, we do need the information.

Regarding Clark - open up the record of "classified statements" already...ALL OF IT, not just a little snippet here and there because you can make that look like darned near anything.

It's seems to me that everyone is of the opinion that the information is there but we are arguing over which portions are to be brought to light. The whole thing is got to be the most aggravating event since back in 2000 when army's of lawyers were arguing over "hanging chads".

Posted by: Joe at March 29, 2004 09:57 AM

We should stop supporting Condoleeza and her partners in this "regime" because...I mean...look at her. She's obviously hiding in the shadows and being evasive. Yeah she's telling her story everywhere else and not testifying because of a long-standing principle, but c'mon, Richard Clarke is testifying, and even though he has obviously lied and contradicted himself continuously, he must be more open and trustworthy because he's testifying before the commission, right?

What a joke. Good people are disparaged and fools are exalted in our "unbiased" media.

Posted by: David at March 29, 2004 10:07 AM

You know you people are right. We should have invaded Afghanistan in 2001.

And to insure nothing like this happens again, I say we get in contact with those students in Iran and go ahead and invade there.

That way, if something could happen in the next 5 years that could be tied to Iran. It will not happen. Man, if Bush gets re-elected you are teaching him that invading before something happens is the best policy.

You are falling right into his hands it seems. So if tomorrow he says we are going to war with Iran/Syria/Pakistan/North Korea, I expect all of you bitching about how we did not do something sooner, will be behind it right?

Posted by: James Stephenson at March 29, 2004 10:10 AM

"Roark, in fairness if we are not going to blame Bush for 9-11 because it happened on his watch, I don't think we can turn around and blame Clarke because it happened while he was terrorism czar."

Clarke was in his seat during the 1993 World Trade Center bombing, the American embassy bombings, the bombing of the U.S.S. Cole.

He was there for the ENTIRE DECADE of the 90s - and what was he doing? Creating the Y2K hysteria. Pounding the drum beat of cyber-terrorism. And ignoring Osama Bin Laden the entire time - despite the fact that he was actively attacking out interests. That was too real for Mr. Clarke - he would rather swing his sword at imaginary windmills and freaking out the American population who were stocking up on bottled water for when ALL THE COMPUTERS shut down on December 31, 1999.

Yet, we are now to believe that George Bush is responsible for not putting together the pieces in eight months of a puzzle that Clarke and Clinton had a decade to put together and failed.

We know what happened. The FBI, the CIA and the adminstration of two adminstrations failed to communiate - Clinton and Bush. We knew that on September 12, 2004.

The problem that I, and a lot of other people have, is the overt political overtones of a partisian Democrat, profittering on a book that he timed for release with his testimony, taking unsubstatiated shots at Bush's adminstration based on facial expressions and "impressions" that he got.

Democrats have done exactly what they said they were going to do last year in the leaked memo. They said they were going to turn the 9/11 commission into a political witch hunt and that they needed to be careful because "they could only pull that trigger once". What amazes me is that so many people have such pathetic short term memory and can't see that the Democrats have decided to politicize 9/11 in their efforts to get their guy (which I will point out no one is actually supporting) back into the White House - terrorism, truth and American safety be damned.

Posted by: Roark at March 29, 2004 01:31 PM

is the overt political overtones of a partisian Democrat,

The man served under three Republican Presidents! What is this, the new "one drop" rule?

Posted by: Kimmitt at March 29, 2004 01:53 PM
Ya gotta read all the words carefully.

You mean "ya gotta parse all the words carefully"?

You could give Clinton lessons on weaseling out of lies.

How about this?

Richard Clarke, March 2002 Frontline Interview.

Q: Was he, were you, listened to [about the Al Qaeda threat]?

CLARKE: Yes, slowly. Certainly after the embassy bombing in Africa in 1998, it was very obvious that what John was saying, what I was saying, was right: that this was more than a nuisance; that this was a real threat. But I don't think everyone came to the understanding that it was an existential threat. The question was, "This group is more than a nuisance, but are they worth going to war with? After all, they've only attacked two embassies. Maybe that's a cost of doing business. This kind of thing happens. Yes, we should spend some time some energy trying to get them, but it's not the number one priority we have."

__________________________________________________

Clarke, March 2004, before the 9/11 Commission:

CLARKE: My impression was that fighting terrorism, in general, and fighting Al Qaida, in particular, were an extraordinarily high priority in the Clinton administration -- certainly no higher priority. There were priorities probably of equal importance such as the Middle East peace process, but I certainly don't know of one that was any higher in the priority of that administration.

Posted by: TomB at March 29, 2004 02:20 PM

TomB,

"You mean "ya gotta parse all the words carefully"
You could give Clinton lessons on weaseling out of lies"

Oh cut the crap man. You read the thing superficially, you get one impression. You read it carefully, while thinking at the same time, you realize something else. I vote for the careful reading.

As to your latest example. May I suggest that you read carefully? In the first interview, Clarke is referring to the mindset in 1998. He has consistently said that the realization of the seriousness of the threat grew, far too slowly for him.
Before the commission he was talking about the mentality of the Clinton administration at the end of their term.
Perfectly consistent.

Posted by: tano at March 29, 2004 02:28 PM
You read the thing superficially, you get one impression. You read it carefully, while thinking at the same time, you realize something else. I vote for the careful reading.

No, in both cases you are giving your interpretation to what he said in order to get him out of a bind. Nothing he SAYS is in any way remotely like what you claim. I'm reading what is said, not what I think is being said.

Posted by: TomB at March 29, 2004 02:45 PM

Huh?

You nuts or something?
Read that FrontPage piece and tell me how any rational person can deny that he is talking about '98, and the time of the embassy bombing.

The next year was the LA airport bombing, which everyone agrees that the Clinton admin. treated as a very hot subject - for a month straight. That seems pretty clearly to be the issue that put it permanently on the front burner for them.

In front of the commission, Clarke was discussing the change in emphasis between the (end of) the Clinton admin, and the (beginning of) the Bush.

Posted by: tano at March 29, 2004 02:52 PM

Some backup:

1. General Hugh Shelton, former chairman of the joint chiefs of staff: the Bush administration pushed terrorism "farther to the back burner."

2. Bush administration terrorism report, April 2001, via CNN: When asked why the Administration had reduced the focus on Osama bin Laden, "a senior Bush State Department official told CNN the U.S. government made a mistake in focusing so much energy on bin Laden."

3. Thomas Maertens, NSC nonproliferation director for Clinton and Bush: "[Clarke] was the guy pushing hardest, saying again and again that something big was going to happen, including possibly here in the U.S." But Maertens said the Bush White House was reluctant to believe a holdover from the previous administration. "They really believed their campaign rhetoric about the Clinton administration," he said. "So anything they did was bad, and the Bushies were not going to repeat it."

4. Lieutenant General Don Kerrick, Clinton deputy NSA who was held over for several months by Bush, comparing Bush's sense of urgency regarding terrorism to Clinton's: "Candidly speaking, I didn’t detect that kind of focus." And this: "I don't think it was above the waterline. They were gambling nothing would happen."

5. President Bush himself, quoted by Bob Woodward: "I didn’t feel a sense of urgency about al Qaeda. It was not my focus; it was not the focus of my team."

The fact that the Bush administration, somewhat like the Clinton administration, didn't take Al Queda seriously before 9/11, if relatively uncontroversial, at this point.

the Bush administration has gotten into hot water, by pretending to be "on top of the ball" ore-9/11. they weren't, and neither was Clinton.

the thing that is essential, is what is the correct statement?

1. Initiating a war/regime change in Iraq is essential to the war on terrorism.
2. Attacking Iraq, after the attack of 9-11 is like attacking Mexico after the attack on Pearl Harbor.

That's the essential policy disagreement, in a nutshell.

the predictions are:

1. We are attacking the root of the problem by creating a semi-democracy in the Arab world.
2. by attacking Iraq, we are creating a thousand new Bin Ladens.

Maybe, both of these are going to be true. Spain definitely gives credence to the 2nd statement. But various demonstrations in other Arab countries for democracy, could conceivably give evidence for the first.

I don't understand why the White House is going with guns blazing against Richard Clarke. It's a loser, and just eats into their credibility.

Posted by: JC at March 29, 2004 02:54 PM

"The man served under three Republican Presidents! What is this, the new "one drop" rule?"

Clarke voted for Gore in 2000. He is lashing out at the man who beat the man he wanted for President.

Clarke only donated to the Democrat party in the 90's.

The man is partisian. He is a Democrat. Period.

Posted by: Roark at March 29, 2004 03:14 PM

You know, not everything is political. Voting for Al Gore does NOT discount everything - or anything - that he says. If a Democrat says the sun is shining, and the Bush administration says it is not - does that mean you discount the Democrat?

Discounting Richard Clarke BECAUSE he is a Democrat - without taking into account facts and policy - only SHOWS how "partisan" you yourself are.

Take a look at my previous post - again, I think we can agree that the clinton and bush admins could have done a lot more.

But the MAIN policy disagreement - and one in which reasonable people can disagree - is whether Iraq IS or IS NOT part of the War on Terror. Although at this point this is academic, since Iraq IS part of the War on Terror now. (Cheney signals forward with his hand and says, "Make it so, number ONE.")

Clarke's point of view is that going to Iraq because of the attack on 9-11 has been like "attacking Mexico because of Pearl Harbor".

He is perfectly able to say his opinion on this, and indeed has a duty to do so. He may be wrong, but the character assassination is uncalled for.

Posted by: JC at March 29, 2004 03:33 PM

Since when was pointing out that a man has made two totally opposite statements in less than two years character assassination?

Clarke was a cheerleader for Bush in 2002 - and now he is their harshest critic.

Whichever side is the truth, the man proves out a liar. When you are on both sides of the issue, it is not character assassination for someone else to point out your instability. It is called recognition of reality.

The partisian part comes in when Clarke starts interperting facial expressions, assigning his own assumptions and reporting them as fact to Congress - at the same time he is teaching a class with Kerry's national security guy and hyping a tell-all/Bush bashing book.

Call me partisian if you want to. I could really care less. I, however, recall the memo where the Democrat's were planning to politize 9/11 in the 2004 election season. I refuse to be objective when I know, for a fact, that the opposition is coming into the fight with pure partisianship as their only concern. To do otherwise is to ask to lose.

Posted by: Roark at March 29, 2004 03:47 PM

What is with the Y2K bug bashing on this forum? As someone who was dealing with it at the time for a high-profile financial institution I assure you the fact that Y2K bug's seemless passing into the night was not due to its absence. Hundreds of thousands of people worked their butts off to fix and test billions of lines of computer code before the deadline, knowing all the time that the only real test would actually happen once.

I assure you that were the alarm not sounded and heeded, your penultimate millenial New Year would be much less pleasant and a lot more trying. I also see no reason why a counterterror official would not spend tremendous amount of time on the problem. Not only did it provide a potentially grave opening to a salvo against the US by a direct terrorist attack, the implications for introducing new bugs and backdoors into our infrastructure were stagerring.

Frankly, I am not surprised he asked to transfer to cyberterrorism if he wanted to continue with his career. He probably figured that sooner or later a major attack would come from that corner, and wanted to be there (hopfully) to help fix the problem. He was clearly not being listened to by either the Clinton or Bush administrations over "conventional" terror operations, might as well head off to a new field with less political pressure and more operational flexibility.

Posted by: Con Tendem at March 29, 2004 04:32 PM

Clarke was a cheerleader for Bush in 2002 - and now he is their harshest critic.

Neither of these is faintly true. Clarke was a member of a team which tried to put a good spin on events in 2002; he was by no stretch of the imagination a "cheerleader." Now, he has written a book which contends that the Administration (as well as the one previous) made some errors in handling the terror threat; he is by no stretch of the imagination their "harshest critic." The rhetoric in the book gets nowhere near DiIulio's "Mayberry Machiavellis," to take an easy example.

Your entire premise is not just flawed, it's absurd.

Posted by: Kimmitt at March 29, 2004 04:34 PM

Roark,

I was saying you were partisan in reference to "The man is partisian. He is a Democrat. Period". If THAT is your frame of reference, then it is a significant problem, because any truth offered by someone other than a Republican is "faulty". And this by definition is partisan.

But to your other point, regarding the "this man is a liar". It's been mentioned before, but Clarke has said, "Wihtout lying, I emphasized the positive", or some such, in service to the administration.

What should he have done, while in service to the current administration?

Also, if only this "discrepancy" - which is exaggerated, by the way - is your standard by which you judge people liars, then if I pull completely internal contradictory statements by Dick Cheney, and by Condi Rice - within 2 years - will you also brand them liars?

I don't know if you got a chance to see the Meet the Press with Rumsfeld - where he said, "I don't know of anyone who claimed that Iraq had WMD", and then immediately, he was presented with twice where HE said there was WMD.

At any rate, if I present contradictory statements, by the people in the administration, and back them up (and Dick Cheney and condi rice seem like the biggest offenders - not much of this from Rumsfeld, or from other staff), will you ALSO consider them liars?

Again, this is on that "partisan" question.

Best,

Posted by: JC at March 29, 2004 05:11 PM

Pretty big of you to not blame Hoover for Pearl Harbor. After all, he had only been out of office for eight years.

Posted by: ben at March 29, 2004 05:26 PM

This story that's going around--that Rice referred to Al-Qaeda in the radio interview being cited--is untrue.

She mentions Bin Laden and she mentions terrorists, but she makes no specific mention of Al-qaeda.

This is a "bait-and-switch" story. Rice never mentioned Al-Qaeda in that interview. Does that prove she neverheard of them? No. But it certainly doesn't disprove Clarke's contention, either.

Posted by: Joe at March 29, 2004 05:30 PM

There is no evidence that Rice knew about al Qaeda until Clarke told her about it. All she knew was that bin Laden had a terrorist group with bases in Afghanistan, Sudan, and the like, and that it was a serious threat which was going to require a concerted effort to combat, and that it was a radical Muslim group that was troublesome even to some Muslim states, who might be interested in helping the U.S. to combat the group. But she was embarrassingly obtuse when it came to the question of al Qaeda.

Posted by: Jim at March 29, 2004 08:01 PM

anti-troll,

HA, you moron. You just don't get it just like Bush, Cheney, Wolfowitz, Rice et al.

I'm honored to be a moron in such company. You forgot to metion Powell. And George Shultz:

http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110004882

And in your camp we find such notables as Jimmy Carter, Jacques Chirac, Kofi Annan and Richard Clarke.

You are asserting that a terrorist group denied state-sponsors is as great a threat as one that enjoys state-sponsors. That is a boldly ignorant assertion to make. Only a moron would make such an assertion or find it persuasive.

Posted by: HA at March 30, 2004 04:03 AM

If Rice did not know who AQ was in Fall 2001, then Clarke and Tenet should have been fired. I mean as Intelligence assets, it is their job to get the information to the decision makers.

Did Clarke have any assets at all? Did he have more than Tenet or less than Tenet? If he had more, who in the hell did that. If he had less, then he is just a guy making statements without any real knowledge behind it.

One day the world will end. See now I am an Expert on the ending of the world.

Posted by: James Stephenson at March 30, 2004 04:33 AM

Clarke keeps saying "My impression ...", or "I believe ..". Did this guy get is EST training while a member of the Clinton staff ?

He keeps holding up the success of capturing the Millenium Bomber by the Clinton Administration as a major accomplishment. One customs agent, by her own admission, just got lucky ... a real accomplishment. But all that time working together just made his EST sensibilities go over the top. Fe...els go...od
It's just a shame that these "terrorism experts" don't all live and work in large, tall buildings.
I know I'd feel a lot luckier.

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