March 17, 2004

Condolences to Scott Elliot

Blogger Scott Elliot, aka The Blogging Caesar, has been linked on this blog and has frequently contributed to my comments section.

Both of his parents were killed in Iraq two days ago. I am so sorry.

Posted by Michael J. Totten at March 17, 2004 03:09 PM
Comments

That's tragic. I had heard of the murders, of course, but didn't realize the connection. My deepest and sincerest sympathies.

Posted by: Stu at March 17, 2004 03:20 PM

I saw on his site a message mentioning that his parrents had 'been killed' I figured an accident of some sort. But Whoa. That's brutal.

Posted by: eric at March 17, 2004 04:15 PM

whoa. That's a real bummer. They didn't die in vain.

Posted by: David at March 17, 2004 04:52 PM

Thank you, Michael.

Posted by: Scott Elliott at March 17, 2004 10:19 PM

They didn't die in vain

I'm not sure. Time will tell.

Posted by: Graham at March 17, 2004 11:43 PM

Graham: I'm not sure. Time will tell.

That was very rude. They were in Iraq doing humanitarian work and were murdered by fascists. I don't give a shit if you support the war or the rebuilding of Iraq or not. Can't you forget politics for just one single comments thread? Show some respect for the dead.

Posted by: Michael J. Totten at March 18, 2004 12:07 AM

Politics aside, I think the comment stands on its own merit. Time will tell. I don't understand what is rude about that. Foul language on the other hand is generally accepted as rude. Ask anyone.

Posted by: Graham at March 18, 2004 12:11 AM

Graham: I don't understand what is rude about that.

Their son Scott Elliot posted a comment just above yours. You suggested that his parents might have died in vain. He'll probably read it.

Get a clue, Graham.

Posted by: Michael J. Totten at March 18, 2004 12:17 AM

I'm sure he can handle it.

Posted by: Graham at March 18, 2004 12:22 AM

Scott’s parents were providing humanitarian aid to an area of the world that desperately needs it. Their deaths were a terrible tragedy.

I’ve read about how Christian Missionary groups have traveled to Iraq, not to convert anyone, but to fill the need for traditional humanitarian aid. Their group, the International Mission Board, has done some very good work.

Posted by: mary at March 18, 2004 06:08 AM

Graham, people who are murdered -- because of who they are, not what they do -- while doing humanitarian work in any capacity have not died in vain. I can't understand how you don't understand. Fortunately, I don't have to do so.

Scott Elliot, I'm sorry for your loss. Your parents must have been very noble people.

Posted by: Matt Snyder at March 18, 2004 06:55 AM

Regardless of one's feelings about the politics and the situation in Iraq, points shouldn't be scored off something this sad. The loss of one's parents in this fashion must be a terrible thing, and I think in a post like this one, respect should be shown by the commentariate.

Posted by: Stu at March 18, 2004 07:29 AM

Graham,

My parents could not have died in vain. Their objective had nothing to do with the political situation in Iraq. Their only concern was to share the love of Christ with the Iraqi people. They scored a royal flush! Not only that, but in their deaths, that love has been proclaimed the world over. People everywhere are taking a fresh look at Jesus Christ. I feel certain there will be many in heaven some day who will tell my parents, "I'm here because you gave your lives." If even one comes to know Christ through their deaths, all the pain I feel now, and will feel for a long time, will be totally worth it.

By the way, I hold no animosity toward you, my friend. I understand your motivation. It is my prayer that you might be one to meet my parents in heaven someday.

God bless you.

Posted by: Scott Elliott at March 18, 2004 08:14 AM

My condolences to Scott Elliot.

And my condolences to the family of that young woman run over by an Israeli bulldozer last year.

I don't agree with her protest, but her death was a tragedy all the same.

Posted by: Matt Ward at March 18, 2004 08:16 AM

Condolences Scott. They did not die in vain if they died doing something they believed to be right.

Recently a blogger in Iraq also died (in the attack that also claimed Fern Holland). His pages are at the Bob Zangas blog, which is going to be maintained for posterity. Bob was a very cheerful and enthusiastic guy, and this shines through in the pictures and words on his blog.

These people are a testament to the good work that Americans, and people of other nationalities, are attempting to perform in Iraq. Their memories should not be sullied with some of the cynical motivations and conspiracy theories put forward by opponents of the war.

Posted by: Anthony at March 18, 2004 09:31 AM

Graham, do you fear they may have died in vain, or do you hope they did? Myself, I am hoping for a better future for Iraqis, one they've already started to build for themselves.

Posted by: Michelle at March 18, 2004 10:00 AM

And my condolences to the family of that young woman run over by an Israeli bulldozer last year.

Her name was Rachel Cory. It is very close to the anniversary of her death.

Posted by: Graham at March 18, 2004 10:28 AM

I vehemently disagree with the Iraq War, Graham, but I need to stand with Scott on this one. His parents weren't soldiers, they weren't part of any Bush agenda, and they weren't representative of anything but their God. They went, unarmed and unarmored by anything but their faith, into a hostile and dangerous land to testify about their beliefs.

I do not share those beliefs, but I admire their courage and convictions.

Blessed be, Scott. Your parents will stand as an example to the world of living what you preach.

Posted by: Catsy at March 18, 2004 11:34 AM

Her name was Rachel Cory. It is very close to the anniversary of her death.

Rachel "pancakes" corrie was a hatemonger. Don't make me google the picture of her burning the American flag with a rage-filled expression on her face--and she did it over there, amongst other haters of America. There's a big difference between what she was doing (protecting terrorist smuggling caves) and what Scott's parents were doing. Don't even start with that crap.

Posted by: David at March 18, 2004 03:35 PM

Not to mention Scott's parents were killed BY terrorists--the kind the IDF regularly go after (and Rachel died defending).

Posted by: David at March 18, 2004 03:41 PM

Michael,

I re-read the comments by Graham and yourself, and I want to thank you for rebuking him for me. When I said I understand his motivation, I didn't mean to say I agree with it. I very strongly disagree, in fact. His comments were inappropriate and uncalled for. I just wanted to convey to him the love that my parents lived, the love that I try to emulate in my own life.

So, thanks again, my friend.

Posted by: Scott Elliott at March 18, 2004 04:56 PM

I have a very hard time believing that a group described as "Baptist missionaries" was not there with the intent of "spreading the word of Jesus" among Muslims. Christ! Can't anyone do some humanitarian work without some ulterior motive?

A quote from the CNN article on this event: "Their personal love for God and their desire to obey him would outweigh any personal risks for them." Noble intentions indeed. However, I personally would have worried a little more about my personal security before I started believing that some unseen cloud being would protect me. The true tragedy is that these people died because of their faith in god's protection. In case it wasn't known, well armed soldiers are dying almost every day in Iraq. What chance do unarmed missionaries have? If the goal was as a "religious mission", I think that goal may well have been in vain in that part of the world. I can not buy the argument that the goal was simply "humanitarian aid". A cynical view, I know, but I won't apologize for it.

Posted by: Graham at March 18, 2004 05:40 PM

I have a very hard time believing that a group described as "Baptist missionaries" was not there with the intent of "spreading the word of Jesus" among Muslims. Christ! Can't anyone do some humanitarian work without some ulterior motive?

Why should you have a hard time about it? I think they were there for EXACTLY that intent. And? They deserved getting shot? And what makes the motive "ulterior"? Didn't you know feeding the hungry and clothing the poor is CENTRAL to the message of the Gospels? There's nothing "ulterior" about spreading the Gospels and providing humanitarian relief. Jesus did exactly that, and devout christians such as the Elliots were following in a tradition thousands of years old. And they got killed for it. But I guess they had it coming huh? Your wacked out secularism is on broad display here.

Posted by: David at March 18, 2004 06:36 PM

Graham,

You are full of shit and utterly shameless.

To second guess the motivations of anyone doing
humanitarian work and putting their lives on the line goes beyond the pale. Have you met Scott's parents? I know a lot of people putting their lives on the line in both Afganistan and in Iraq. Some believe in Christ, some don't. Some support GWB, others don't. However they are putting their asses on the line, genuinely trying to help people in need while you are sitting behind the safety of a fucking computer making cheap accusations. Do you know how much guts it takes to give up your family, climb on a plane, fly into a free-fire zone like the Sunni triangle while trying to help folks?

You are utterly self-absorbed and nihilistic.

You are entitled to your infantile opinions, but NOT in a forum where people are directly communicating condolences to a surviving son of two murdered parents.

Posted by: bob at March 18, 2004 07:22 PM

Graham,

You are kicked off my Web site. You will not post here again.

I'm not kicking you out because I don't agree with your opinions. I'd have to ban half my commenters if I did that. I'm kicking you out for insulting the dead in front of their son.

Posted by: Michael J. Totten at March 18, 2004 11:38 PM

Michael,

I'd rather Graham remained so that we could kick him around a bit more, then boot him.

Posted by: David at March 19, 2004 08:43 AM

Graham,

You are kicked off my Web site. You will not post here again.

Wow. I thought Totten didn't believe in censorship. Oh well. This is probably my last post. Hell, I didn't even threaten, curse or belittle. I merely made some observations. I don't think I want to continue discussion in this environment. Keep in mind Totten I could have kept posting to my heart's content as evidenced by this post. Signing off.

Graham

Posted by: Gramm at March 19, 2004 02:59 PM

Well Michael, Graham is deserving of a good punch in the nose just for being an ass about it, but personally I'd not be in favor of booting him. That's my two cents.

Posted by: David at March 19, 2004 03:17 PM

Graham: Wow. I thought Totten didn't believe in censorship.

I am not a censor. I am a moderator. And you're out.

I'd kick you out of my house, too, if you acted like that in my living room.

You remind me of the guy who help up a sign that said "God hates fags" at Matthew Shepherd's funeral.

Good bye.

Further posts by you will be deleted.

Posted by: Michael J. Totten at March 19, 2004 05:10 PM

I disagree with the banning. Make Graham look foolish by letting him continue posting. Censoring never works.

Posted by: James at March 19, 2004 11:26 PM

Graham, you have no class. Michael's right about that.

Posted by: David at March 20, 2004 06:41 AM

I deleted Graham's last comment, just as I said I would if he did not respect the fact that he is no longer welcome here.

I am not a censor, I am a moderator. And I can't moderate this discussion through persuasion alone if I don't back myself up with "force," so to speak. Graham is free to post his thoughts elsewhere. His freedom of speech has not been abridged.

I like my comments section. I think it's better than that on most blogs. The tone is better. Sometimes I have to put my foot down in order to keep it this way.

Posted by: Michael J. Totten at March 20, 2004 01:33 PM

Graham --

You are a prize idiot. No Christian believes that God protects their physical beings. They believe that God has a path for them, and that whatever happens to them, happens for God's reason.

Scott's parents obviously knew they could be killed by going to Iraq, and they did so anyway, trusting their fates to God. They are now in Heaven, at God's hand. That is all the 'protection' they ever anticipated, or craved.

Not believing in a faith is one thing, misconstruing so basic a tenet isn't. You're an ass.

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