March 04, 2004

Tom Cole: Right-wing Punk

This election is going to suck.

Republican Congressman Tom Cole claims a vote against the re-election of President Bush is like supporting Adolph Hitler during World War Two.
There really isn’t much to say about this except that Tom Cole appears to be the right-wing equivalent of an anarchist punk. For those who can’t see what’s wrong with his statement, well, there isn’t anything I can say to help.

He later said his quote was mischaracterized.

Who knows? He was bound to say so whether his quote was mischaracterized or not. And since his original words aren’t published online, I can’t check.

But he did say this. Quote.

If George Bush loses the election, Osama bin Laden wins the election.
Osama bin Laden is not on any ballot.

I’d say Osama, if in fact he’s still breathing, would probably prefer a John Kerry victory. After all, the Bush Administration, as Christopher Hitchens put it, “wakes up every morning wondering how to take the war to the enemy.” John Kerry sees this sort of thing as "the most arrogant, inept, reckless, and ideological foreign policy in modern history.” So, yeah, Osama bin Laden might prefer a US president who is a little less…enthusiastic about taking the war to the enemy.

But boy oh boy is that a different statement from what Cole said. He said, in a roundabout way, that John Kerry is Osama bin Laden. Perhaps I'm splitting hairs, but Cole said this in a prepared speech. It wasn't an off-the-cuff slip-up.

He turned around and said Kerry is a “patriotic individual.” Well, that’s good. At least he knows the First Rule of Holes.

Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee chairman Robert Matsui responds:

Congressman Cole's comments are disgraceful and must be repudiated by Republican candidates from President Bush on down the ticket…Congressman Cole should apologize to Senator Kerry and the millions of Americans whose patriotism he has impugned.
In a country where Ann Coulter sell millions of books peddling Cole’s brand of shtick, I’d say Mr. Matsui is right on the money.

(Via Kevin Drum.)

Posted by Michael J. Totten at March 4, 2004 11:43 PM
Comments

Possibly exaggerated, if not mischaracterized. Josh Marshall got the actual words:

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/week_2004_02_29.html#002631

Posted by: gek at March 4, 2004 11:58 PM

I saw him on CNN this afternoon, it's definitely not exaggerated. He was peddling pound after pound.

It bothers me that you think that Bin laden even cares who wins the presidency. He sits in his cave, or house wherver he is and thinks about killing americans and anyone else who doesn't buy his apocolyptic dream. Whomever the president is may have an effect on what foreign opinion has (and we can argue how important that is), but I'm by no means able to read Bin laden's mind. Appearently conservative know what Bin Laden wants in detail when it comes to electoral politics.

Let's give up the bull-shit line, if Kerry is president he will not rest till he kills Bin laden, if Bush is president he will not rest until he kills Bin laden. I may have huge problems with Bush's foreign policy but I don't pretend that guy wants to let Bin laden kill Americans. I know damn well that if Kerry wins he will be so scruitinized by every hawk and right wing nut (not the same people) that he'll be that much more vigilant in going after Al-Qaeda. The difference in protecting American security is probably less than .00001%.

PS - Michael the thing about Arrogant and Corrupt foreign policy is a critique of the build up to the Iraq war, and has nothing to do with the war on terrorism.

Posted by: laddy at March 5, 2004 01:03 AM

Oh and the arrogant, corrput thing also deals with kyoto, north korea, and the unilateral steps that the Bush administration took prior to 9/11.

For an intelligent critique of Bush foreign policy from a Democratic standpoint, can I suggest America Unbound.

Posted by: laddy at March 5, 2004 01:10 AM

laddy: I may have huge problems with Bush's foreign policy but I don't pretend that guy wants to let Bin laden kill Americans.

I'm not saying that Kerry wants to let bin Laden kill Americans. Of course he does not. The problem is that he has complained about nearly everything we've done to kick his and Saddam's ass. He's wallowing in a kind of anti-anti-terrorism. That doesn't make him pro-terrorist. But he is softer than Bush.

Do you think Kerry would wake up every morning wondering how to take the fight to the enemy? I don't. If I was an enemy of America, I would much rather have John Kerry on my case than have George W. Bush coming after me.

Still, that's a far cry from what Cole said. Cole sounds like Ann Coulter. The difference may seem small to some people, but to me it's huge because it crosses a very important line.

Posted by: Michael J. Totten at March 5, 2004 01:15 AM

Michael, I agree with you -- Cole obviously went way too far. This is going to be an ugly election. The level of public discourse is going to be very low.

I don't think we can imagine or predict the kinds of strange and ridiculous shit that the media will either invent or discover to keep things as emotional and unreasoned as possible.

I know the gay marriage thing has blindsided me. It's the only issue my sister (who is gay) cares about now. (Perhaps this will wear off. I hope.)

And my wife, who is French, asked me yesterday, "Are you really going to vote for him?" (him being Bush, of course) It was really no fun at all to say, "At this point, if the election was tomorrow, yeah."

Posted by: miklos rosza at March 5, 2004 01:26 AM

Michael,

I'd like to get past what Cole said, and to what you said. While i respect your opinion, I'd like to say that we don't know what George Bush or John Kerry wake up in the morning thinking about. We do know that before most of us have coffee, they will both (Kerry will start getting briefed on security issues during the summer, I assume) about every threat to the US, Americans and our allies that has come up within the last 24 hours and how that relates to all the threats that were out there the day before. They will have to eat breakfast under the thought that people will die because of their actions, or inactions. Do I think that Bin Laden cares who is president? No, I really don't.

Your point is, will Kerry wake up and want to kill terrorists? Yes, I think Kerry will just as much as Bush. Will Kerry wake up in the Morning and think about ways of using American power to fight proliferators and other threats? Yes. Will Kerry want to get on a war path with Syria, Iran, and North Korea to further prove our point after Iraq? I really doubt it, and I really doubt that Bush wants to either. But that may be Hitch's point, maybe Bush does wake up and want to go to war, though even as a deranged Bush hater i really doubt it.

So where does that difference on National Security lie?

It is that George Bush has had a revolutionary foreign policy (including Kyoto, and everything else that he did before 9/11). I consider Bush's addition to foreign policy to be Iraq. That is his foreign policy vision, that I could honestly say that I'm not sure anyother president would have done. So, I would argue that it is the hawkish fantasy and hawkish world construct that..

a.) George Bush is the only one capable of taking the fight to the enemy.

b.) his revolutionary foreign policy is good for the long term security of the United States.

c.) that he has the political capital to follow up on any of his threats in the future. remember that he will have very few allies for something as bold as Iraq.

d.) has the domestic political desire to be revolutionary.

e.) his revolutionary foreign policy has been good.

Posted by: laddy at March 5, 2004 01:40 AM

Actual text.

You trusted Drum?

Posted by: Ricky at March 5, 2004 03:19 AM

MJT,

Cole's analogy to Hitler is off the mark. The better analogy is with the 1864 election between Lincoln and McClellan. A vote for Kerry in 2004 would be like a vote for McClellan in 1864. And a Kerry victory now would be nearly as dangerous to liberalism as a McClellan victory then.

http://elections.harpweek.com/4Overview/overview-1864-1.htm
http://elections.harpweek.com/4Overview/overview-1864-2.htm

Osama bin Laden is not on any ballot.

You've heard of metaphors? You're off the mark about Cole's "Osama bin Laden wins the election" comment. Bin Laden, Assad, the Mullah's, Kim, Chirac, Arafat and every other thug, dictator and terorist are praying to Marx and Allah for a Kerry victory. They are the forces of Berman's anti-liberalism. Bush believes in fighting a war against the forces of anti-liberalism in order to preserve and advance liberalism. Kerry will launch investigations with international assistance from stalwart allies like France, Russia and China. I'm sure the thought of that chills Bin Laden's spine.

Since you don't like metaphors, let me put things literally. A vote for Kerry is a proxy vote for Bin Laden's candidate of choice. And a vote for Bush is a vote for liberalism.

Posted by: HA at March 5, 2004 03:31 AM

laddy,

if Kerry is president he will not rest till he kills Bin laden, if Bush is president he will not rest until he kills Bin laden

And then what? If we get Bin Laden is the problem solved? We can go about our business?

Bin Laden is only the tip of the iceberg. A figurehead. And how is Kerry going to secure the cooperation of Pakistan? Libya? Syria? Saudia Arabia? Iran? Will it be based on a shared respect for internationalist values? It is only the threat of regime change in those nations that secures any cooperation from them. A Kerry victory takes the threat of regime change off the table.

The war in Iraq reestablished America's deterrent effect that had been squandered over several decades of foreign policy fecklessness on the part of both Republican and Democratic administrations. But Kerry won't inherit that from Bush. If Kerry is serious about fighting terrorism, he will need to reestablish the deterrent effect which means that the probability of war would be greater under Kerry than Bush.

Of course, I don't think Kerry is serious. I think he is an internationalist appeaser like the rest of the Democrats. The Democrats can't be trusted with national security and Kerry would be a disaster as President.

Posted by: HA at March 5, 2004 03:57 AM

MJT and Drum have fallen into the trap of listening to low level political hacks (Cole and Matsui). Who gives a s***! what these pukes say.

If you want reasoned analysis of the difference between GWB and Kerry then go here:

http://windsofchange.net/

and read the post titled "Kerry On Defense". A.L. makes the case better than anything I've recently read.

Posted by: steve at March 5, 2004 04:15 AM

I might have missed it but I didn't see what you posted in reference to congresswoman's Brown's statement? I wonder if Matsui called her comments disgraceful because they were and racist also.

Posted by: Starhawk at March 5, 2004 04:20 AM

The Congressman's remarks are only to be expected.

It's just the counter point to the "Bush=Hitler" meme so common amongst the Democrats.

And you're right, 8 months of this is going to be tiresome, to say the least.

Posted by: eric at March 5, 2004 05:27 AM

Yup! That ones a loser.

I am afraid there are more like him in the Republican party. After a year of constant, angry, vicious attacks many Republicans see the offical beginning of Bush's campaign as "open season" to say what they have been holding back for quite a while.

In many cases, they would do well to see the tone the President has set thus far and follow his lead. To date, he hasn't attacked and he hasn't gone frothing at the mouth mad. He is presenting a positive campaign centered on the issues and Republicans would do well to remember that this sort of lunacy has done nothing for the Democrats in the last year and will do nothing for themselves.

Posted by: Roark at March 5, 2004 05:44 AM

Michael, I'm thinking that Cole's verbage may have been over the top, but then what boots it?

The Kerry machine (a highly sophisticated attack machine at that) has been "over the top" against Bush for a long time. Their attacks have largely gone unanswered, and essentially ignored from the standpoint of doing a content analysis and disection. There has been some to be sure, but for the most part, we can expect the LLL to attack like hell without comment from many, and then become highly indignant when Bush & Co. responds.

Cole may have been an idiot (and reading his words makes me think that he was just slightly below normal IQ wise) but he is small potatos when it comes to this election cycle.

Don't sweat the small stuff guys, Cole is small stuff. Let's take a hard look at anything and everything coming out of the Kerry and Bush camps. I'd be willing to bet day old donuts to dollar bills that Bush will come out on the better of that exchange.

Posted by: gmroper at March 5, 2004 05:46 AM

Wow! There are right-wing idiots? The right-wing compares the other side to Nazis?

Well I am going back to the left today, as we all know there are no idiots there. Thanks, now I am voting for Kerry.

Posted by: blogger at March 5, 2004 05:54 AM

I’d say Osama, if in fact he’s still breathing, would probably prefer a John Kerry victory.

NO NO NO NO a thousand friggin' times NO.

Bush deliberately lowered the intensity on Osama in order to invade Iraq. Bush has barely mentioned Osama's name in the past 2 years.

Osama knows this damn well.

Hell, Osama probably loves having Bush the Christian crusader as his enemy.

By the way, invading Iraq IS NOT THE SAME THING as getting Osama bin Laden and destroying Al Qaeda.

Posted by: RBC at March 5, 2004 06:27 AM

Cole is right. If Bush loses Bin Laden wins. Fundamentalist muslims and Arab nationalist hate Georgie The Tyrant Killer. He has destroyed the "great Arab hope" Bin Laden, destroyed the Taliban, destroyed Saddam pretty much without a fight, told the other Arab rulers democratize or disappear and exposed Arafat and the Palestinians as the nihilistic bloodthirsty murderers they are. America's enemies, the Jihadis and the Arab fascists and dictators will see a defeat of Bush as a victory. Even a pass to attack just like the good old days under Clinton when terror wasn't punished. I know my view is right. Just ask your Arab friends, if you have any. If you vote for Kerry, you vote for the enemy. It's as simple as that.

Posted by: Ricky Vandal at March 5, 2004 06:33 AM

Cole's statement re Hitler, if true, should be unambiguously repudiated by him. His statement re OBL was perhaps ineligently phrased (I agree with MT's take on OBL preferring Kerry), but is a legitimate (though certainly not dispositive)issue. Kerry probably is a patriot, but I think that he is wrong; I do not intend to be driven from the debate on this issue by someone's declaration that it is "out of bounds."

That said, Matsui is also right that Cole should apologize, but I suspect he didn't say the same thing about the NAACP-James Byrd ads run during the 2000 election. I expect that his criticism is driven more by politics than anything else.

Moreover, the Dems are on a constant attack about alleged attacks on their patriotism. Kerry's past votes in the Senate(and to some extent his actions) and his positions on issues are all legitimate political issues in the 2004 election. I do not think it is legitimate for Matsui to shut down this area of inquiry by declaring it an illegitimate attack on Kerry's patriotism.

Posted by: Ben at March 5, 2004 07:00 AM

According to Cole's website, he made the following statements.

I promise you this, if George Bush loses the election, Osama bin Laden wins the election, it's that simple. It will be interpreted that way by enemies of the United States around the world.

What do you think Hitler would have thought if Roosevelt would've lost the election in 1944? He would have thought American resolve was [weakening].

What would the confederacy have thought if Lincoln would have lost the election of 1864?

Unless these quotes have been fabricated or altered (or there are others that contradict these), Cole is clearly arguing that if a more dovish candidate defeats a more hawkish candidate in a wartime election, the latter having brought the country into the conflict, it will be interpreted as a mandate to scale back or withdraw from the conflict. That's all.

Obviously Cole refers to Hitler and bin Laden, but he clearly does not state or suggest that Kerry is in any way comparable to them. On these facts, this just isn't the Republican equivalent of "Bush=Hitler."

Posted by: Michael Hall at March 5, 2004 07:02 AM

In a related vein: Pyongyang's friendly attitude towards Mr Kerry contrasts with its strong anti-Bush rhetoric.

Posted by: Michael Hall at March 5, 2004 07:12 AM

I just visited Josh Marshall's site. After quoting in full Cole's press release (including the quotes I noted above), Josh writes, "Frankly, I think these comments are still pretty outrageous, even in Cole's version of them. But they're not quite as bad as the original reports."

Say what? What's outrageous about them? I don't know, and Josh doesn't say.

Of course, Josh is the same guy who made no mention of Rep. Brown's recent comments but who later described (at the bottom of page 13) his role in the Trent Lott affair thusly: "I just started hitting it and basically hitting it and hitting it and hitting it."

Posted by: Michael Hall at March 5, 2004 07:29 AM

Am I the only one to believe that wether Kerry or Bush win wouldn't really change a lot in terms of foreign policy?

Armed forces would still have to remain in Iraq for a while, and in other parts of the world where they're stationed. Kerry can say what he likes now, but unless he's mad, he won't pull the US military out and bring them all back home the day after he's elected. He won't be allowed to anyway.

Clinton had a completely different PR from Bush, but the military approach was not that different. When military intervention was decided, it was taken just the same as Bush did - only with a lot more support and a lot less controversy. That's the only difference, really.

Terrorists would keep targeting America and what it stands for, no matter who is sitting in the White House. I doubt they really care who the President is. It's always America, it's always the Jewish cabbalah, it's always the decadent West, it's always the non-shariah world. The enemy is larger than that office.

But of course that must be completely overlooked if we want to keep the election debate spicy, so we all have to pretend Bush is the supreme scourge of terrorists while a Kerry victory would send them cheering in the streets. Oh well, if they say so..

Posted by: ginger at March 5, 2004 07:42 AM

I find nothing wrong with Cole's statement. Cole did not say that a vote for Kerry is a vote for Hitler.

Now, for the time being, it appears that Michael has basically walked away from Kerry given Kerry's stance on the war against Islamic Fascism (which is what the war on terror is, but for PR purposes, we don't want to put "Islamic" and "Fascism" in the same sentance.). War is not to be conducted as if one is investigating a carjacking.

John Kerry has yet to articulate a vision of fighting and winning the war against ISLAMIC FASCISM, not against bin Laden. Just because you get rid of Binnie and the Jets doesn't mean that you've dealt with the damned ideology.

Kerry doesn't get that. Bush does. That was the reason we went into Iraq, my friends. WMD would have been the icing on the cake, but we had to show the Arabs that fascist regimes in the ME were a serious danger to the health and well-being of the United States. Saddam was the nail stickign out of the deck; we hammered him down. Kerry doesn't see the efficacy of that, nor does he appear to understand that the expansion of liberal democracy in the Muslim world will put paid to the fascist dreams of the likes of bin Laden.

Kerry doesn't get that, either. Bush does.

Be Seeing You,

Chris

Posted by: section9 at March 5, 2004 07:46 AM

President Kerry will restore American dignity and respect in the world and reverse the lawless, reckless, arrogant, unilateral foreign policy of the criminal Bush Junta.

Posted by: KIM IL SUNG at March 5, 2004 08:17 AM

Who does Osama want to win this election? Who do the terrorists want to win this election? Who do the fascists of the middle east want to win this election?

Answer honestly now.

Posted by: David at March 5, 2004 08:49 AM

The United States was attached by a Saudi Arabia based terrorist organization. The attackers were mostly Saudi nationals with Saudi sourced funding.

The United States was attached by a Saudi Arabia based terrorist organization. The attackers were mostly Saudi nationals with Saudi sourced funding.

The United States was attached by a Saudi Arabia based terrorist organization. The attackers were mostly Saudi nationals with Saudi sourced funding.

As far as we know, nobody from the Iraq has ever attacked the United States.

How is it again that Bush "gets it" and Kerry doesn't? The only thing that is clear is that Bush doesn't or he would be doing something to address the actual problem. Perhaps he will but he has had 2.5 years to address the Saudi issue and the best he could do is to invade a country that has been at war with Islamic Fundamentalism for a decade and call it a metaphor for action.

We have substantive proof of Bush's incompetence. We don't know about Kerry yet but we can only hope that he can do better than "metaphor's" and have the stones to actual address the problem.

Osama must love Bush. Bush attacks Osama's adversary (Iraq) and leaves his beloved Saudi Arabia alone. Kind of makes you suspect that Osama may be one of Bush's Rangers?

Posted by: g2 at March 5, 2004 09:31 AM

Attached? Who was attached? I see no attachments? What is all this attaching?

Posted by: you need a spell check at March 5, 2004 10:05 AM

Why is it that some people don't think it's a problem when the nation has been attached?

;-)

Posted by: g2 at March 5, 2004 10:35 AM

I have been attached before, most recently three times, which seemed repetitive, not to mention redundant, which I inadvertently mentioned, but no one noticed, because I was attached, at the time.

Posted by: where's my bong at March 5, 2004 11:02 AM

I'm unattached, and available. 555-1020

Posted by: AMBER at March 5, 2004 11:18 AM

Oh come on, how can you all joke so carelessly about attachments? If it's one of those "read it immediately" mail2.zip attachments, it might be very dangerous. I think Bush gets it too.

Posted by: ginger at March 5, 2004 11:22 AM

... but the question is, do you attach a nation in .zip format? Can America fit on a 180 GB drive? What if you downloaded 180 GB of America.zip by accident? Could Bush's email handle that? I bet Kerry has a more powerful anti-spam filter. So there.

Posted by: ginger at March 5, 2004 11:24 AM

John Kerry will defend the U.S. against any attachments, but not in an arrogant, go-it-alone, detached way; he will seek through painstaking and patient diplomacy to reattach our allies and world opinion.

Posted by: Zhombre at March 5, 2004 11:35 AM

Ah...the Center is such a lovely place to be. I'm so glad I don't have to put up with the likes of Cole and Coulter, Nader and Brown.

Free from the insanity of the partisan wingnuts. A land where people learn to actually think for themselves. A land where logic and reason win the day. And you don't have to try and make excuses for your fellow partisans when say insane crap like this.

Posted by: Grant McEntire at March 5, 2004 11:38 AM

Grant: ah, but what you're describing is not a political center. Sanity only exists outside of politics. ;)

Posted by: ginger at March 5, 2004 11:45 AM

Ah, Grant, see you do get it after all! The Center is the place, nirvana if you will, where no one is attached! We don't have our little ideologue cue card to tell us what we think on a particular issue. We see each and every issue as new; to be evaluated on it's own merits. Being un-Attached is more work but, dammit, we like it that way. We cannot be pigeon-holed, nor summed up, lumped in, and never, ever, taken for Granted.

Viva Le (la?) Un-Attachments!

Posted by: where's my bong at March 5, 2004 11:59 AM

Centrism is the attache case of the weak. They carry it about, and look important, but are merely too pusillanimous to commit.

Posted by: Bliss at March 5, 2004 12:05 PM

Grant,

Free from the insanity of the partisan wingnuts.

Yeah, but you have plenty of "handnuts" as in "on the one hand, and on the other hand, and on the other hand..." When do you run out of hands? You centrists are worse than economists. Make up your mind already!

Posted by: HA at March 5, 2004 02:31 PM

The United States was attached...

g2,

Who does Osama want to win this election? Bush or Kerry.

Why won't you just answer that simple question?

Posted by: David at March 5, 2004 03:37 PM

But boy oh boy is that a different statement from what Cole said. He said, in a roundabout way, that John Kerry is Osama bin Laden. Perhaps I'm splitting hairs, but Cole said this in a prepared speech. It wasn't an off-the-cuff slip-up.

If George Bush loses the election, Osama bin Laden wins the election.
**************************************************
If Bush loses the election, would Al Quedar be better of or worse off?

Or to rephrase it if Kerry wins would Islamofscism worldwide be better off or worse off.

Who said you have to read it as Kerry equals Osama?

Which one would Osama WANT to win the election?

Bush or Kerry?

Posted by: Dan Kauffman at March 5, 2004 03:47 PM

John Kerry will defend the U.S. against any attachments, but not in an arrogant, go-it-alone, detached way; he will seek through painstaking and patient diplomacy to reattach our allies and world opinion.
*************************************************
We HAVE allies the Coalition of the Willing totals 40 to 50 Nations. Look at the map here

http://www.geocities.com/pwhce/willing.html

Contrast the allignment of allies, opposition and neutral countries with that of WWII?

Posted by: Dan Kauffman at March 5, 2004 03:59 PM

HA...

"Handnuts", I got a good laugh outta that. And I'll even agree with you to a certain point. But, come on man, you know me. And you know Totten, also a Centrist.

Speaking for Michael and myself, we're hardly devoid of passion and pretty effing opinionated on just about everything under the sun. We've made up our minds and we know what we believe on a good 95% of the issues. The only difference between you and me is that, at the end of the day, I'm still open to the idea that I might be wrong.

A great line from a song goes, "Pompousity is when you always think you're right, Arrogance is when you know."

I'm merely but a pompous ass, that's all. :)

Posted by: Grant McEntire at March 5, 2004 04:00 PM

PS...

And that's not to say in any way that I'm a relativist. Trust me, if you knew me, you wouldn't think me a relativist for a second. I'd take a crap on Nietzsche's grave if I could.

Truth exists...I'm just humble about assuming I'm smart enough to figure it out most the time.

Posted by: Grant McEntire at March 5, 2004 04:04 PM

Look at Hitchens. There's a guy in the center who ran out of hands.

Posted by: Michael J. Totten at March 5, 2004 04:06 PM

This is going to be a VE RY irritating 8 months. My advice to the Bush campaign. When it comes to the international scene you have truth and rightness on your side. Get out there and explain it. Stop with the absurd polemics that make you look no better than the hysterical left. Use Victor Davis Hanson as a model of excellence and high mindendness. Get your more thoughtful figures out there defending the president and the patriot act and John Ashcroft and anyone else demonized by the Democratic attack machine. Don't mimic them. It won't work and it is not necessary. President Bush needs to make a major speech to remind the country what is at stake and what he has accomplished and the risks of turning him out of office prematurely.

Posted by: Doug at March 5, 2004 04:33 PM

VDH can be pretty acidic. I dunno if he would work out.

Anyway, he's pretty attached to his farm.

Posted by: eric at March 5, 2004 05:09 PM

I doubt Bush going out and "defending" himself by purposefully ramping up the more controversial elements of his Administration is gonna do him much good. I'll give you that the Democrats have been ruthlessly pounding away at the guy, "demonizing" him even, but there's clearly a reason for it: That's where he's vulnerable.

You say he should get out there and 110% defend John Ashcroft to hold him up as some shining beacon of pride for all to see. That would be a MONUMENTALLY bad move on the President's part. I know alot of conservative Republicans that are afraid of the guy. He went to frickin' Bob Jones University and publicly declared that America's greatness lies in that "we have no King but Jesus" and "no standard but eternal authority"! This should scare the crap out of you, especially if you're a conservative.

If Bush knows his shit, he won't take your advice. He'll hit back, instead.

Posted by: Grant McEntire at March 5, 2004 06:15 PM

Grant,

The only difference between you and me is that, at the end of the day, I'm still open to the idea that I might be wrong.

If I wasn't open to the possibility that I might be wrong, I wouldn't hold the opinions that I hold today. I have a couple of Libertarian (note the big "L") friends who I argue with all the time. Today I cringe at some of the arguments I used to make. I won't repeat any of them out of sheer embarassement. I used to think they were nuts but now I can see they were right about the creeping socialism of the welfare state. I still think they are nuts about a lot of issues, but they were right about a lot too.

I would say I've turned into something more like a neoconservative/libertarian Frankenstein. Five years ago I would have sounded a lot like you or Michael. I changed when I became a parent because the time horizons I used to analyse issues stretched out. My time horizon is now generational instead of something like the 2-4 year election cycle.

Anyway, I think the notion of a "centrist" is a bit of an illusion. I don't know who said it first, but everyone is an extremist depending on the issue. There are two kinds of "centrists." Those who can't make up their minds - the "handnuts" who are extremely indecisive. And there are some who hold extreme positions from both ends of the contemporary political spectrum. Maybe you and Michael aren't as "centrist" as you like to think.

Posted by: HA at March 6, 2004 05:37 AM

So where was the hue and cry when Bush was being called the 'new Hitler" by MOVEON's thugs?

Oh. I see. That's different....

Posted by: Bithead at March 6, 2004 10:07 AM

Look at it this way, with an example that's slightly less emotionally loaded:

"Who would Jacques Chirac rather win - Bush or Kerry?"

The answer is fairly clear. But asking this question doesn't mean you're equating Kerry with Chirac.

(That being said, it's almost invariably a rhetorical mistake to bring up Hitler. Even on the rare occasions when the reference is a defensible one, it gets everyone riled up and not listening.)

Posted by: jaed at March 6, 2004 02:58 PM

jaed - two questions:

- why be so sure Kerry would make such a big difference to Chirac?

- who cares what Chirac thinks anyway?

Posted by: ginger at March 6, 2004 03:26 PM

Michael,

As stupid as what he said is, if he in fact said it, the liberal-left and Democratic Party however will never be caught up with in our lifetimes with stupid vile untrue crap coming from their direction concerning this subject.

Posted by: Samuel at March 6, 2004 03:32 PM

Michael,

If you seriously think that OBL or any other islamo-fascist sees an iota of difference between Democrat and Republican, you don't know very much about these people.

To them, an American is an American.

And as far as that relates to the way that a Democratic administration would respond to their threat, I'd say that they are a lot closer to the truth than you are.

Posted by: Mork at March 7, 2004 03:26 PM

ginger,

who cares what Chirac thinks anyway?

John Kerry.

Posted by: HA at March 7, 2004 06:15 PM

Kerry vacations in France and is buddies with Chirac. A vote for Kerry is a vote for Vichy.

Posted by: Lee at March 8, 2004 05:00 PM

Lee, maybe it's best not to go into the "buddies with" aspect, because Bush seems to have had even less commendable ones himself, especially in light of 9/11. Really, better not open that door...

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