All Floridians act alike to me!

As a black male with socialist leanings, I believe all blacks should leave government office and become lobbyists. Then when one of us says something stupid, it gets no press and we can just say:

Just trying to influence things, baby!

Aahh, if only I can become dictator. ;)

Y'all don't get it. The race hustlers have changed the rules. Now, no matter how brown or black you're born, once you hook up with Republicans, you're WHITE.

It would be appropriate for the democrats to call upon Rep. Brown to resign. This blatant statement of racism will make her ineffective as a legislator-- she'll be totally isolated.

Except in the (unlikely?) event that the Democrats rally around her and her racist remarks. In which case, that tells us something very important about the Democrats.

Sure, she probably should resign.

But you couldn't resist throwing a jab at the Democratic party, couldja?

I'm waiting to see if there's a shit-storm media frenzy about this the same way there would be if some white guy had said such a thing about blacks.

I won't hold my breath.

Yeah, the Repugs were even more disgusting in their defense of that racist Trent Lott!

Ms Brown is living proof that possession of a less than fully functional brain is not disqualification for holding public office. And I disagree with Lefty that Trent Lott is a racist; he's merely an ass. Lefty, BTW, is living proof that ability to plug away at a keyboard isn't the same as having an intelligent opinion or the means of expressing one.

And perhaps while she’s at it she could spend a few minutes brushing up on foreign policy so she doesn’t drag the Democratic Party further into the hole it dug for itself.

I doubt seriously if she has enough juice to do that.

As for holes, let's see: there's a humanitarian crisis going on 650 miles from our shores, with the two sides battling each other consisting of a thuggish President and thuggish terrorists who murdered and raped prior to the return of Aristide, but the Bush administration wants a political solution before any troops go in.

Just for the record, I condemned Brown's remarks on my blog in no uncertain terms. She should apologize, without any equivocation.

She is a black female Democrat.

She can be a racist. It's ok.

And I disagree with Lefty that Trent Lott is a racist; he's merely an ass.

Call him what you will, but the fact remains that he said: "I want to say this about my state: When Strom Thurmond ran for president, we voted for him. We're proud of it. And if the rest of the country had followed our lead, we wouldn't have had all these problems over all these years, either."

In other words, if a segregationist candidate, who I think is awesome, had won in 1948, all the "problems" "caused" by integration wouldn't exist.

I dare you to defend that.

Which one is Lott? all you white folks look to same to me. You are all racists.

Re: The Lott Flap

Where the heck were you guys when all that happened? You'll notice that Lott is no longer Senate Majority Leader; he lost his prestigious post as a direct result of his dumb remarks. And the charge was led by...Republicans...

"In other words..."

THERE is the difference. To smear Lott as the racist he is, you have to translate what he said. You have to qualify what you think he meant (which he probably did) and then extrapolate from there. It could be possible that Lott was just saying nice things about the dead guy. And it could be Lott is just a racist. Either way, I have and had no problem with him getting tossed on his ear and removed from his position.

On the other hand, Rep. Brown said "you all look alike to me" when speaking of white people.

No translation needed.

Praktike, in your alternative world, did many Republicans defend Lott or stand around in shamefaced silence? Because I seem to recall an awful lot of conservatives, both politicians and writers, being outraged and immediately demanding that he step down as Majority leader. Which, you know, happened.

"I dare you to defend that." You're wrongly assuming I'd want to. Not many others did either.

Nobody seems to mind that term "White Man" is now commonly perceived as an insult.

Praktike: I wouldn't defend it at all. Remarks were indefensibly stupid and insensitive and I was glad to see Lott take the flack. I'm simply not convinced Lott is a racist but I'm certain he's an ass and should substitute dental floss for shoe laces; he lost his leadership position in the Senate because he deserved to. Thurmond definitely was a racist; whether he remained one to his 100th birthday is for God to judge.

Sorry, Brian. Yours was first, and better.

slight correction: she couldn't distinquish a Latino (Haven't seen him so I don't know how 'white' he is) from a WASP

Zhombre: Lefty, BTW, is living proof that ability to plug away at a keyboard isn't the same as having an intelligent opinion or the means of expressing one.

I can spot a fake lefty a mile away. "Lefty" is a conservative pretending to be a leftist. That's a popular game in my comments lately these past few days.

In the 108th Congress, Senator Lott chairs the Aviation Subcommittee within the Committee on Commerce, Science and Transportation, which oversees the security and stability of the nation's aviation industry. He also chairs the powerful Rules Committee. He is a member of the Finance Committee, which oversees tax and health care policy, and serves on the Select Committee on Intelligence.

By the way, in what alternate universive does defending segregation not qualify as racism?

Praktike: good question. I appreciate you are not faux left. I understand at some colleges there are separate housing facilities and graduation ceremonies for students of color, Hispanics, etc. This would seem to be a form of segregation with progressive imprimateur. No one dares call it racist.

DISCLAIMER. My reference to God posted above should not be construed as an endorsement of any particular religion but only an amorphous, bland reference to an allleged Creator. All deities look alike to me.

Note how the Dem apologists refer to her remarks as "dumb" or "stupid" -- as opposed to, say, racist. Also note how many Dem apologists say things like, "Although her frustration is understandable (her remarks were dumb)," OR "Although her remarks were dumb, her frustration is understandable." Hmmm, "that dumb old, undertandably frustrated Strom Thurmond !"

First of all, Brown's statement was clearly racist.

Second, as for this:I understand at some colleges there are separate housing facilities and graduation ceremonies for students of color, Hispanics, etc. This would seem to be a form of segregation with progressive imprimateur. No one dares call it racist.

I don't even know where to begin.

I just love how blantanly racist comments from a Democrat seem to serve as an excuse to haul out Trent Lott again.

Racism is racism. Either you are for it, or against it. Trent Lott, Rep Corrine Brown, Rep. Cynthia McKinney and Senator Robert Byrd all deserve a one way trip home. McKinney already got hers - thanks directly to the people (brown, black AND white) of my district. Its time for Brown, Byrd and Lott to follow suit.

Playing partisian politics over racists is a bad play. Whether they are a D or an R, they have no place in any position of power.

Now, please ignore this post and continue to yell about Trent Lott. Perhaps if we can hit 100 posts, someone will forget that the problem was a black Democrat saying an ethic group "all look alike to me".

I don't know much about Byrd, apart from the fact that he's famous for bringing massive amounts of pork into both the state and federal budgets. What's his record like on race?

Please note that I'm not an American, so if Byrd's record is something that everyone in the USA knows about, then I apologize in advance for my ignorance.

Byrd was a member of the Klu Klux Klan. The Klan, aka KKK, was the central anti-black organization present in America throughout most of the 20th century.

Oh man, Sam, are you gonna get responses on Byrd.

Rather famously, he was a member of the Ku Klux Klan as a young man, I believe in the late 1940s. During that time he wrote a passionate letter saying that he would fight against the integration of the U.S. armed forces with everything he had, because it just wasn't right for the white man to have to fight next to blacks.

Maybe it isn't fair to tar him with that now; his supporters would say that he sincerely repented. (I would say that having ever been a Klansman is an awfully hard thing to atone for, even if his rejection of those beliefs is complete and sincere, but maybe they're right.)

But he's done some weird things even lately that a sometime racist agitator ought to be more careful than to do. Making a cameo in a Civil War movie as a Confederate general, for instance.

And in an interview a few years ago, he used a particularly famous and vile racial epithet, though he didn't use it only to refer to blacks. He elaborated, "Yes, I'll use that word. There are white [vile word omitted] too."

Praktike --

Lott is a subcommittee chairman because EVERY member of the majority chairs at least one committee or subcommittee. There are something like 103 subcommittees in the Senate, considerably more than there are members of the majority party (or SENATORS, for that matter).

Imagine the hoopla that would have ensued had a white, male Republican said that all blacks look alike to him.

Of course, Assistant Secretary of State Roger Noriega doesn't distinguish himself in this exchange either. According to Michael Totten's post, he later told Rep. Brown, "As a Mexican-American, I deeply resent being called a racist and branded a white man." Does that reply not strike anyone else as being a bit weird? I understand the chagrin at being called a racist, but being "branded a white man?"

I am a white male; assume that someone said I was black. What would you think of me if I indignantly replied, "I deeply resent being branded a black man?" In fact, my reaction would not be to take offense, but rather one of bewilderment: "Huh?"

Michael Hall: I understand the chagrin at being called a racist, but being "branded a white man?"

She meant "white man" as an insult. If someone mistakenly thought he was a white man and was value-neutral about it, I rather doubt he would be offended. I certainly hope not, or he has a race problem too.

Michael,

I agree that Brown intended the term "white men" to be an insult, but I think the fact that Noriega prefaced his reply with "[a]s a Mexican-American" suggests that he is insulted at being called ("branded") white.

It strikes me as strange that a person of a given color would "resent" being described as another color. If someone claimed I were black, I would be puzzled but I wouldn't resent it.

You know, Michael, maybe I didn't make my point very clearly. If Noriega meant -- and he may well have, though I don't read it that way -- that he resents the injection of racial language into the debate, i.e., being called a "white man," I have no objection. But he made sure to point out that he is Mexican-American, so it seems to me that he took offense not to the use of racial language, but rather to the fact that someone was "branding" him a white man.

Lott is a subcommittee chairman because EVERY member of the majority chairs at least one committee or subcommittee. There are something like 103 subcommittees in the Senate, considerably more than there are members of the majority party (or SENATORS, for that matter).

Ben, the Rules Committee?

This is bullshit.

The Man...the only man for the subject this hundred years pointed the way to a future of judgement by content of character not color of skin.

Well, where is it? Certainly not in angels-on-a-pin arguments. Thurmond, Byrd, Lott, McKinney, Brown, Noriega, ad. alltherest are condemned out of their own mouths. They are racists--end of story. The next story is building an electorate whose focus on character reacts to this stuff as "ewwwww...next candidate." That's us folks, if we put our minds to it.

Forget your "I am (white, brown, black, red, etc.) offended." Forget your "view from the hue." It's a dead end street in victimville. There is only offended.

Here's news; character won't come to the fore if you don't demand it, and that's about principle not minutia. Demand otherwise and you merely help the young grow into this same trap.

End it. Don't mend it.

Only Republicans resign for such things. Picture Tom Delay saying something like this. Picture George Bush behaving like Clinton. Even though this Congresswoman feels heat, as a Democrat much of the heat is shielded. That’s fine by me it just keeps increasing the expectations for Republicans and decreasing them for Democrats. Even when I was a Democrat though I didn’t agree on policy, I always expected Republicans to behave on the whole more responsibly and with greater accountability. Some things not only don’t change but become worse. I got off of that train just in time as the Democrats appear to be returning to its former pre-civil rights party of bigots.

Samuel: Only Republicans resign for such things.

Oh please. When was the last time that happened?

You've got stars in your eyes for your newfound GOP friends. You're setting yourself up to be disillusioned all over again. We're talking about politicians here.

Michael you say,

Oh please. When was the last time that happened?

Newt Gingrich, John Livingston, Bob Packwood, Richard Nixon. The real question is when on the national stage did it happen for Democrats?

You've got stars in your eyes for your newfound GOP friends. You're setting yourself up to be disillusioned all over again. We're talking about politicians here.

I'm just stating a fact. Republicans hold their own more responsible. Of course they will disappoint me and is not the point. I don’t agree with President Bush on a lot of things, I do be believe him to be a way more decent individual than Kerry for many reasons, some even personal knowledge. The point is that Republicans with the aid of the press are way more policed on such issues. The double standard is obvious to anyone with an eye to see. For all my arguing against impeachment I always felt in my gut Clinton was guilty of even worse things than charged. I doubt history will find him cleaner and more sympathetic through time. Remember I live inside the beltway and know many political people personally. Kerry is an ass. Edwards is decent. I know this personally, reject that or not. Do you think if Clinton were a Republican with the Senate and House numbers flipped in Party affiliation he would have survived? No way! That is my point. And I do hold higher hopes with “my newfound GOP friends”, however people like Ken Starr who coached my daughter in softball I already knew anyway. And believe me he is way more decent than Bill Clinton, in fact more decent than anyone I know.

Wow. Sounds like something our local Indianapolis Rep. Julia Carson would say. Is it some kind of rule that every state, even Indiana, has to have at least one cranky-racist liberal-nut Representative?

Has anyone here ever heard of Julia Carson? Her reputation around here is legendary...and not just for the fact she's 65 and usually spotted wearing skin-tight leather pants.

Anyone else waiting for MJT's response to Samuel's latest?

Samuel,

Now I'll buy into the idea that Democrats don't resign for such things and Republicans do. I'd even say that it has more to do with whether the speaker is in a "protected" class so to speak. This nutjob is in several. Sorry, it's just a fact. If she were a white man saying these things we all know what would happen.

However, please lay off the "Ken Star" is so decent BS. You may know him and I don't (though he gave the most long and offensively boring commencement speech at my law school graduation, a pure policy thing, not stopping even once to wish us luck). But he -- and the rest of the self-proclaimed moralists -- distracted this country with their stupid impeachment trial while the forces of terrorism kept upping their ante. Heck, even noted legal ethicist Sam Gash RESIGNED from Starr's staff because he didn't think he was such a "decent" guy.

My 2 cents.

Al, Sam “Gash” as you call him was a disloyal partisan who makes my point about Dems lacking principle. Knowing Ken as I do he was guilty of being naïve and assumed “Gash” to be as decent as Ken was. “Gash” acted like an inside hackjob and in my opinion was guilty of a lot worse than resigning. Ted Kennedy is way more of a pig than Bob Packwood ever was. And all Ken Starr did was his job, that's all. Republican's never liked the independent counsel law, when it finally came home to roost on Dems they suddenly found "principle". As far as impeachment being stupid of course it is only relevant for Republicans. As far as distracted? I think Clinton getting “serviced” while making military decisions on the phone with government officials says how serious he took terrorism doesn’t it? Make a career of defending Clinton and Dems if you want I’m way past that. Democrats are losing moral high ground on many fronts like it or not.

Back in my liberal college days, I was taught that black folks can't be racist. So her outburst, though racist, wasn't.

David and Samuel...

In my college days (i.e. the present), I'm learning that black folks CAN be racist whereas I was taught otherwise as a kid. And sexist, too. Oh, and around these parts, they tend to be pretty hateful of the gay community, as well.

I went to a party last night and got into a heated discussion with my friend Kim, who is black. After many a shot of Tequila I actually got her to open up on this and it was interesting to say the least. According to her, blacks tend to pretty much despise Latinos and Gays because alot of black folk feel threatened by other minority groups turning the attention away from them. And it's a deep-seated thing, she told me, going back generations.

Well, anyway, I told her to her face that it sounds like a victimhood mentality to me and that I believe it's the result of years and years of preferential treatment: Told her how much I hate Affirmative Action and how it pisses me off that so few of my fellow Democrats have the balls to call out special privilege when they see it.

It was an interesting night, to say the least. Just thought I'd share this with you guys. Maybe you folks should have opted for a more urban-based college. It's a wonderful experience. Nonsensical dogma doesn't fly too far in an environment like that where reality smacks you in the face every day forcing honesty upon you. The culture-shock is refreshing.

Grant, thoughtful post, like I've said before you're way ahead of where I was at your age. I mean that as a compliment not to be to sound condescending. Anyway got to run be back later.

Thanks, Samuel. I didn't take offense.

Samuel,

You apparently think Republicans are superior human beings.

But for every good thing you cite that some Republican did, I can cite something outrageous and nasty that another one did. Same goes for the Democrats. We can go round and round forever and get nowhere, and I just don't see the point in it.

Good point, Michael.

It's important to remember that they're all ideologues, that to them, the ends justify the means every time.

True principle is an endangered species up on the Hill: That's party politics, in a nutshell.

You apparently think Republicans are superior human beings.

Actually Michael I do not. I wouldn't love my wife and family if I felt that way. Both sides have their strengths and on the points I made that you seem to reject I think you reject and somehow declare equalness on such things, you are wrong. The Republicans are held by others as well as themselves to higher standards. Tell me how they aren't? Personal responsibility is more their trademark not to perfection of course, but by comparison. I never said that they did nothing wrong only that they are held to account more. Christopher Shay's the liberal Republican said as much during impeachment. He voted against impeachment but added the Republicans would throw Clinton out if he were a Republican as well, he said the Democrats would be more one sided in judgment and throw out a President for the same things only if he were a Republican. The Republicans did this when though Polls were way against them something I always wondered about at the time, but know after seeing Bush and remembering Reagan I realize there are differences in what drives. The Republicans vote would stay more consistent if the tables were turned. Even though Shays didn't agree with his colleagues, he much appreciated the willingness to be principled. Both parties have principles for sure. In holding one to their principles the Republicans are superior and more consistent. Thy have their weaknesses, we all do, but in this the Democrats fall short.

http://www.cnn.com/2000/ALLPOLITICS/stories/09/21/ethics.brown.ap/

Just thought I would remind everyone what this discussion was about. It seems that Rep. Brown had a little problem with the ethics committee a couple of years ago over a $50,000 Lexus given to her daughter and varied assorted other bribes she took from an African businessman who was currently in jail.

He got thrown in jail. He bribed Brown. Brown went to bat for him. They both lost. Brown got into ethics trouble. The "witnesses" were outside of subpoena range and Brown got off.

Quality, quality representative the Democrats have. You guys can keep on pissing on Samuel because he likes Republicans, but I just thought I would add a little spice to the discussion.

You know what?

Go to google and type "Rep Corrine Brown Florida ethics".

It speaks for itself.

Jeez, how did I tumble into this site? I gotta stop blogrolling...

First, wtf is racist about calling white men, white men? The majority of the Bush White Rouse is run by White Men so her statement is not racist.

Now the Mexican dude was obviously offended at being called white. Obviously some white people can't understand why anyone would be offended at that but most minorities understand him being upset. For the record, it's practically the worse insult you can give a minority. It means you have lost your identity and heritage.

O.K., I'm out.
This can go back to being a typical backwards-looking, republican forum...

JPS and Roark:
Thanks for the answers, I didn't know about Byrd's KKK membership. It sounds to me like he left more for political reasons than actual remorse over his past. Of course I could be wrong.

Roark, the funny thing is I have never voted for a Republican, for Congress or President! I will vote for both this time around (a first) I am just stating differences.

Some of you folks should check out Tavis Smiley's Black Family Forum on C-Span
http://www.c-span.org/#?Cat=TV&Code=VA&ShowVidDays=30&ShowVidDesc=
I watched part of this this morning and learned three things:

1. The blacks are conflicted between blaming 'the enemy' in ways ranging from historical to mind bending and taking more responsibility for their various predicaments. Some of the panelists had some very wise things to say, some were demagogues, and several were a bit of both. There does seem to be some hope.

2. The very nature of the forum and much of the discussions seemed to me a very good (therapeutic - ick, I hate that word) thing. I wish I had a culture or group I could participate in such dialogue with. Perhaps we could form an outsiders club, those who fit none of the major victim groups - eventually this definition may become a minority.

3. Disturbingly, at least twice, panelists refered to whites as the enemy. Cornel West was on the panel, but he did not make the heavy handed statements I am referring to. He does seem out of date, though.

A couple of the panelists (a Harvard prof, and a former US Surgeon General - who was very fair) were received very cooly when they presented facts like a 60% fatherless rate. Others, with shots at the 2000 election (Sheila Jackson Lee), or racially charged allegations of whites plotting to harm blacks by distributing guns and drugs and such were heavily applauded. The most demagogic speaker had people standing and dancing in approval.

sigh.

Whoh, guys check this out...

Rep. Corrine Brown's issued "apology":

"I sincerely did not mean to offend Secretary Noriega or anyone in the room. Rather, my comments, as they relate to 'white men,' were aimed at the policies of the Bush administration as they pertain to Haiti, which I do consider to be racist...my comments were targeted at the Bush administration’s policy towards Haiti...not towards Secretary Noriega personally."

So she's not stepping down from branding the ENTIRE Bush Administration as being "a bunch of white men" and accusing them of racism. She's not REALLY apologizing to Assistant Secretary Noriega for what she said, but merely apologizing that he was offended by what she said. And, as far as I can tell, she's totally in denial of the whole "you all look alike to me" comment: Which is blatant racism and, ideally, should have been the very first thing she apologized for.

The "apology" reads as if to say, "It was all a big misunderstanding," which in my book ain't an apology at all. She doesn't actually apologize for a single word she said or admit that any of it was out of line. She even goes as far to as to try and turn the tables, saying:

"I was personally insulted by the anti-Haiti sentiment brought to the table by the State Department and by Republican Members of Congress in attendance."

Here's the link to the full "apology":

http://www.house.gov/corrinebrown/press108/pr040226R.htm

I highly suggest everyone here look it over and correct me if I'm wrong. Michael, feel free to post this as some kind of update if you like. It's update-worthy if you ask me.

"She's not REALLY apologizing to Assistant Secretary Noriega for what she said, but merely apologizing that he was offended by what she said."

This tactic isn't new. Most politicans have been doing this for several years.

"Not only did I call you a bigot and then say that you all look alike, but now I am going to follow that up by calling you an idiot because you didn't understand who I was calling a bigot and who I said I said looked alike. So, i'm sorry you are an idiot".

Rep. Brown is off to extort another car for some other member of her family at the moment. She can't be bothered with all of these racism accusations. She has to get hers!

I'm just stating a fact. Republicans hold their own more responsible.

The press holds conservatives more accountable for their misteps because when they screw up, they have a case of hypocrisy to report--and they run with it as far as they can. But when a liberal screws up, no real story, because their standards are so low anyway, or they have none, and therefore no news story.

Grant, I hate to sound cruel but have you seen and heard this woman? Well a class act she isn't to put it kindly, kind of like the ""crazy Aunt" you might hide in the basement. Kudos to you and good follow up. Also Roark good further points as well.

David, I know what you are saying is true and whether a person sees or acknowledges this to me is a true test to whether someone is still stuck in a liberal shield or not. As Bernie Goldberg says the liberal always assumes the center to be closer to where they are standing. In other words they start from the left and think they are in the center. Moderate Right is hard right (Bush) and Tom Delay? Hey he sleeps in white sheets at night with holes cut and Parties with David Duke (in his heart anyway). And they hover like vultures to prove such things if they can. This is what they look for. They will put the blood in the water for Republicans. With Democrats they wait for the blood to be already undeniably in the water. If they looked for lies and such things with Clinton rather than trip over the obvious, we would be better served. Anyone who thinks that Bush would survive Clinton’s political antics let alone sexual ones is living in one thick cocoon. Could you imagine Laura Bush behaving like Hillary Clinton did in Travel-gate? Would she be in office today or considered a viable candidate for President? People acting as if the Clintons were proven innocent are pure partisans. Getting away with the things they did carries no honor or virtue. They were not exonerated by any means, they got away with much, and history will prove this truer by the day. What if Bush had to hide what Clinton did? Man oh man what a field day! David, it hurts the Democrats because it keeps people like Ted Kennedy around while the Republicans get to be purged of “Bob Packwood” (MJT , by the way you do have two very good Senators, one Republican and one Democrat that seem to get along OK, I’d keep them both). I’ve met Gordon Smith and I was very impressed, he is a Republican however, but I rally think I would have liked him even when I was a Democrat.

"First, wtf is racist about calling white men, white men?"
It's clearly meant as a pejorative.

"The majority of the Bush White Rouse is run by White Men so her statement is not racist."
And the majority of Americans are white that doesn't mean it's right to blot out the existence of minorities. This is racist. SHe wouldn't do such a thing if this was a Democratic administration.

"Now the Mexican dude was obviously offended at being called white. Obviously some white people can't understand why anyone would be offended at that but most minorities understand him being upset. For the record, it's practically the worse insult you can give a minority. It means you have lost your identity and heritage."

That's funny because part of the heritage of Mexico is from the "white man". Where do people think the Spanish language came from? The sky? How'd Latin America get so Catholic? In fact, I more than suspect that Mr. Noriega is actually part "white man". I'm shocked though you don't at least concede that Brown was racist toward Mexican-Americans.

Here's a pic of Noriega.

David Bernstein of "The Volokh Conspiracy" writes this morning:

"I find Rep. Brown's racial demagoguery on the Haiti issue offensive. I'm not so sure about the wisdom of Secretary Noriega's response that he resents being considered white. I'd preferred he criticized her on more general anti-racial demagoguery grounds. After all, outside the world of affirmative action categories, individuals of Mexican origin with a European appearance in the U.S. are generally considered, and consider themselves to be, 'white', and they certainly are in Mexico, so there is something a little manufactured about Noriega's outrage at being lumped into the 'white' category. How about a little outrage that Rep. Brown can't just say she finds the policy stupid, but needs to racialize her criticism?"

To whoever said that leftists have this nasty little habit of defining the center as being closer to where they are...

well, the Right does it too. I've lost count of the times my Falwell-worshipping aunt has told me that liberals have taken over the country, the government, and the Republican Party even. The further you venture from Center in either direction, generally, the more warped your worldview becomes. I'm sure that both Roy AND Michael Moore just see themselves as common-sense moderates in a world gone mad.

It's not just the Left, my friend.

PS...

But as for the Left doing it, I know firsthand exactly what you mean.

I'm not a conservative. Not by a long shot. But to my little group of poli-sci friends (and professors) on campus I am because I'm to the left of Noam Chomsky and once in a blue-moon I actually agree with President Bush on something. There's even a seething animosity from alot of these people, even the ones I'm close to sometimes, for not agreeing with every single dogmatic tenet of the Left. To some of them, I obviously don't know what the hell I'm talking about because all conservative views are wrong and if I hold any of them I just haven't read enough to know better. It gets a little tiring being the butt of so many jokes and no one taking me seriously, but oh well. I come to my own conclusions.

And I'm not exaggerating any of this: It's really that bad in academia. Noam Chomsky is liberalism and everything to the Right of Chomsky is conservative...including the Democratic Party. It may make you laugh but put yourself in my shoes, having to put with it everyday, and it's not so funny.

Thing that sucks the most is that I absolutely love what I'm doing and would love to keep doing it all the way through Grad School and beyond even. I could so completely see myself becoming a Professor if not for having to put up with the academic establishment for the rest of my life.

I remain utterly baffled at how far left the Political Science departments at many universities are. My current theory is that the folks who are well-educated in this area who aren't way out on the fringes are busy actually running the country.

Yep, God knows I'm telling the truth when Kimmitt is taking my side on this one.

It REALLY is that bad, folks...at least in terms of political science. The Political Science Department at my college has 11 full-time profs and 15-20 part-timers. I know the vast majority of them personally and can say beyond a shadow of a doubt that EVERY SINGLE ONE of them opposed the War in Iraq. There's something fundamentally fucked up about that, if you ask me.

I will say this much, though: Other departments are completely the other way around. The Ecomomics Department is pretty much unified in their disdain for minimum wage laws, for instance. And they're even more in-your-face about it than the poli-sci folks are.

I dunno why it has to be this way. And take it from me, anyone who says it doesn't really matter so long as they're non-bias about it is kidding themselves. Bias plays into everything, if even only under the surface. It's in the selection of the reading material. It's in the creation of the dialogue. It's even in the cherry-picking of various talking points. If you're reading this and you've got kids getting ready to head off to college next year, take my advice: The best thing you can possibly do for them before they go is to teach them how to recognize bias and spin when they see it and to recognize fact from opinion.

We had a departmental evaluation session the other day open to the students. I came, kept my mouth shut the entire time, and then offered only one suggestion: That, for a change of pace, they might want to actually think about hiring a conservative one day.

Is it really that bad everywhere in the US? It's not just your college or something?

I will say this much, though: Other departments are completely the other way around. The Ecomomics Department is pretty much unified in their disdain for minimum wage laws, for instance. And they're even more in-your-face about it than the poli-sci folks are.
I dunno why it has to be this way.

Grant, because people are general fiscally conservative and socially tolerant to varying degrees. Campuses just reflect those extremes. However the left has much more of an edge outside the economics department. If the economics department are “more in-your-face” at your campus, then you are in a rare setting indeed.

To whoever said that leftists have this nasty little habit of defining the center as being closer to where they are... well, the Right does it too. I've lost count of the times my Falwell-worshipping aunt…

Grant that was me referencing Bernie Goldberg. Leave your crazy aunt out of this. We are talking about the media that votes 90% Democratic and believes they represent the middle. They control the decision making on the media flow the WaPo, NYT, Jennings, Rather, Brokaw etc. These people will put your aunt in her place however don’t worry about that, however they will treat her liberal counter-equivalent with more respect or as closer to normal…them! The press would be more willing to point out Farwell’s wackiness than the liberal counter-equivalent. Bernie Goldberg is not a conservative, but a fair minded liberal person who has tended to vote for Democrats. He is just honest about his is stories being spiked and altered to the prejudice of conservatives by ABC, Jennings and others.

Samuel...

Sorry, bro. Didn't know you were just talking about the media. To that I would add that you're mostly right, other than the fact you fail to point out the countervailing power structures of the Right. You know, the "conservative echo chamber" as they call it...

-Fox News
-Wall Street Journal Ed. Page
-Talk Radio
-etc, etc.

The conservative echo chamber doesn't have half the institutional foothold of the liberal press, but its practically interpreted as gospel to 20 or 30 million people across the country in a way that liberals could never influence their audiences on the Nightly News. And those 20 or 30 million people are fiercely devout in their devotion to the cause. Just look at the way the whole Drudge-Kerry scandal took off: Drudge reports a rumor, Rush and Hannity pick it up and talk at it constantly, 30 million people are absolutely convinced it's true within a matter of days and it hasn't even been confirmed yet.

In a way, yes, the liberals can easily reach twice maybe even three times as many people with their message but these people are hardly getting turned into raging leftists. Think of it like this...

Imagine you have a city that has 50 different FM radio stations. The radio station with the largest reception area also has the most listeners. This radio station plays pop music, Britney Spears crap and the like.

Also in this city exists a radio station with half the reception area and half the listeners. This radio station plays more MTV2 indie-style rock. They play the songs that no one else will ever play.

Now, how does this break down? The indie-rock radio listeners are probably gonna be listening to that station all the time and no others. They're gonna be huge fans of the bands they listen to and know everything about them. They're gonna be huge fans of the indie-rock radio station as well, for playing what no one else will play. They're cult followers, in essence. The other radio station, in contrast, despite its massive audience are gonna get fair-weathered fans who listen to 20 other stations too. These fans are in it for the catchy pop songs, not the artists, and they're fickle as shit.

Now imagine the people of this city have to, say, turn out on a certain day to vote for their favorite artist or musician so the city can have an official band. Far fetched I know, but follow me here. Who do you think's gonna win? Which group of music fans will care enough to show up at the polls? The fickle pop-music folks or the diehard indie-rock types? Get the comparison?

Liberals have a louder voice but it's far less effective than the conservative alternative and onservatives are able to turn out their base in droves because of it. In terms of political science, this ability is priceless.

Ahhhh...forgot the "C"!

...and conservatives are able to turn out their base in droves because of it.

Sorry.

The point remains the same, however: Don't underestimate the power of the loyal grassroots organization. It's a mighty force that, thus far, only the Right has truly tapped on a national scale.

Grant concerning...

Sorry, bro. Didn't know you were just talking about the media. To that I would add that you're mostly right, other than the fact you fail to point out the countervailing power structures of the Right…

I am trying to shorten my posts by addressing specific points that’s all. I guess in the spirit of true Republicanism their media is much more grassroots based. I’ve always felt the “liberal cocoon” created by the mainstream press helps Democrats in the short term, but has hurt them overall, big-time.

As far as the Kerry scandal you are too quick to dismiss, if you knew what I knew you would have a tendency to more believe it was covered up, and bought off, I’ll leave it at that. As far as Republicans and Rush ditto-heads? They aren’t convinced it is true, but they are rightly convinced that the media would sweep it aside as “news unworthy” while not afford the Republicans the same. In this I agree.

As far as your pop music comparison tell the Democrats to quit playing “Britney Spears crap and the like.” And start coming up with more ideas. Don’t tell me since Reagan that the Democrats havn't been dead as a doornail on the ideas front (not that you are saying that). Most of Clinton accomplishments were based on Republican ideas. I give Bill Clinton credit, hell I voted for the man, but being a “New Democrat” means they accept at some level the free market ideas of Milton Friedman or at the minimum accept the needs to limit government and Great Society programs. This is a political position and doctrine normalized by none other than Ronald Reagan. What have the Democrats created and made politically normal since the days of the Great Society? Not much. This with the mainstream media's help causes those tired old tunes to be repackaged but the public will buy it less and less. For example abortion is losing it’s weight as the political hammer from the left. In fact a person is more likely to be voted in because he is pro-Life rather than because he is pro-Choice. That is a perfect example of what you are talking about when you alluded to the “intensity factor” and the political ramifications of. That is the problem and the Democrats setting up an alternative radio station on their own won’t work until people are convinced to quit listening to NPR first. Quite frankly Grant the abolishment of NPR would be a huge blessing because people would quit getting there Gospel from there and maybe listen to a more Charismatic Liberal. A second problem however is that issues since 911 are just breaking the Republicans way. Here in Washington D.C. one of my favorite local Talk Show Host, a former Clinton voter like me is such a Hawk now that he has become like me or Dennis Miller. The anti-War leftist is far from being in favor with mainstream America. The shallowness of the liberals message is their own fault.

The point remains the same, however: Don't underestimate the power of the loyal grassroots organization. It's a mighty force that, thus far, only the Right has truly tapped on a national scale

That is the candid Grant I like. It doesn’t mean one needs to be a conservative. Like Bernie Goldberg one can be honest and liberal. If more liberals were as intellectually honest as you about the current situation the Democrats could correct many things. While I do believe Grant you carry overly prejudicial views about Republicans, you carry a healthy self-awareness of the liberals current predicament and in that you are adept. I listen to a Begala type partisan and just think, man drop the one liners quit distorting and convince me! Music for the ears of the predisposed, however no gains that way.

Samuel...

Yeah, listening to NPR is like pulling teeth it's that painful. It's like, they try to do parodies of NPR on Saturday Night Live from time to time AND THE FREAKING PARAODIES PUT YOU TO SLEEP!!! It's that boring! You can't even make fun of it without being boring! And that's how you can recognize a true dyed-in-the-wool lefty my friend: If they actually listen to NPR and enjoy it.

I used to carpool to class with a bunch of uber-libs until they started listening to NPR in the mornings. I actually had to tell them straight up, "Guys, I can't take this shit in the morning, I just can't. There's not enough coffee in the world to make it okay."

And there ought to be a New-Republic-style liberal radio station. Common-sense, hard-nosed, modern neo-liberalism would take off I think. Even with conservatives if only for the fact they'd recognize it was liberal but that it also made some sense. I hate that most folks think of "mushiness" when they think of moderates when, in alot of ways, when we question everything we're more dynamic in our views than anyone. Just think of it, really: Liberals Against Affirmative Action. It would blow people away.

I seriously can't get enough of that magazine, though. They're currently running a story on their website chronicling 40+ years of Nader's attempted sabotoge the Democratic Party. They're liberals calling out Ralph Nader for the "selfish destructive maniac" that he is and has always been. I love it. The Title, by the way: "Make You Ralph".

Oh, and last but not least...

Samuel, if you're gonna call me out for harboring "overly prejudicial views about Republicans", I'm gonna call you out for harboring overly prejudicial views about Democrats. Maybe I am a little overly prejudicial and underestimate the average conservative heart. But if I do, rest assured, you underestimate the average liberal brain. Common-sense-types, like myself, are still in the majority believe it or not.

Grant...But if I do, rest assured, you underestimate the average liberal brain.

Trust me, if you really knew who I was you would not be saying that. I mean not just mindset but actually who I am. You have no idea, I'll leave it at that. It is impossible for me to underestimate the liberal brain. Like an ex-smoker I can be over-zealous, Grant there is a HUGE difference between the two. You are not the ex-smoker, I am.

Samuel...

I just sent you an email about something. Let's just say it suddenly dawned on me why you're maybe right in saying it would be impossible for you to underestimate the liberal brain, or just about any brain for that reason.

The subject line is headed "Grant From Totten's Website".

Maybe I'm way off on this, but if I'm not, well then let me just say that I'm feeling pretty damn stupid for some of the things I've said. That sound you hear is the sound of my eating humble pie.

samuel,

if you really knew who I was you would not be saying that.

You must be Margaret Thatcher!

I'm voting for Carl Rove, myself.

True principle is an endangered species up on the Hill: That's party politics, in a nutshell.

A number of Republicans have come out against the FMA already. They are choosing principle over partisanship. Princple is a rare beast, but it isn't extinct.

Grant,

I could so completely see myself becoming a Professor if not for having to put up with the academic establishment for the rest of my life.

That's a real shame. I hope you stick it out. Maybe someday the academic establishment will change.

MJT,

But for every good thing you cite that some Republican did, I can cite something outrageous and nasty that another one did. Same goes for the Democrats. We can go round and round forever and get nowhere, and I just don't see the point in it.

Last time I checked, I've never seen a Republican candidate for president who has actually incited multiple homocides. The Democrats should be ashamed to let Sharpton participate in the debates. The man is a disgrace who is given a complete pass on his appalling record that David Duke could only dream about. The scary part is that Sharpton is actually winning the debates.

http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2003/11/09/the_race_baiter_in_the_campaign/

http://www.nationalreview.com/dreher/dreher012303.asp

Face it. The unifying theme of the Democratic party is hatred of white male Christian America. The level of hatred is determined by a mix of factors. Some hate whites, some hate males, some hate Christians and some hate America. Some hate in various combinations of these factors.

But that is only the beginning. They especially hate any "model minorities" such as Jews, Koreans, Indians, Vietnamese, etc who come to American with nothing and enjoy tremendous success. Especially the Jews. Always the Jews. They hate these people because they expose the bankruptcy of the Big Leftist Myth of the White-Male-Christian-American-Oppressor that they blame ALL the world's ills on.

But they are only warming up. They reserve special loathing for conservative blacks. They hate people like Condi Rice and Colin Powell with unsurpassed passion. Their hatred is so extreme that they deny successful conservative blacks their race. Any black who doesn't play the race-hustling victimology game is a race-traitor. This is the ugly truth behind Corrine Brown's statement. This truth is revealed only in rare moments of indiscretion.

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