I had an interesting conversation yesterday, it is related to what this article talks about in it's section labeled "The Ideology of Race Denial."

We had gotten on the general subject of how to appropriately act and treat people of different cultures/races. I instictively said that i treat such people no differently than i would anybody else. I brought up the subject of 'multiculturalism' (especially at universities) and described why I thought it was a bad idea because of the a priori assumptions it makes about people based on thier race or where they came from. I said that this attitude is the basis for most forms of racism.

She disagreed with me entirely and then said somehting I found quite odd: "Treating people all the same is the basis of racism." We didnt get to conpletely finish the conversation (if such conversations can ever truly be concidered 'finished') but i was left with some very odd thoughts. Is the above quote in any way indicative of the current defense of policies like multiculturalism and affirmative action?

There was some other interesting things said but i'm afraid i may have strayed off topic as it is. If anybody has any insights I could share with her, or maybe reasons why I might be the crazy one, I'l love to hear them.

Ideology is about hate and control. You hate something, and you want to control it. It's just that simple. The key to releasing ideology from your life is to stop hating, to stop denigrating, to stop insulting, to stop condescending, and to stop trying to control. Like I said, it's just that simple.

I had a fight in public with a friend, last April, just before the Iraq war. After reflecting upon this uncomfortable scene (and purchasing a self-help book on the matter), I realized I was trying to control the debate, and win the argument, at any price. That's ideology in a nutshell. Winning becomes more important than truth. Combat becomes more important than the neutral exchange of ideas.

Since then, I've trained myself away from this way of thinking. It's hard to do, and I've probably not perfected it yet, but my worldview is quite different today than it was last year. Not that I don't believe the same things, because I do, but I'm more confident in them, and more importantly, I don't feel the need to denigrate anyone else. If they're wrong, they'll either find out eventually, or they'll live a life of constant hatred. Who wants that?

I still feel the war was right, and GW Bush will be held in (very) high regard by History (among other various opinions), but I no longer need to hate or control anyone else because of it, and I no longer feel the need to identify with a political party or social movement to satisfy myself.

On the other hand, I don't take moral neutrality to the point that I can't still draw lines beyond which I think relativism should not go, but I must either tie those lines to something which truly affects humanity, or I must admit the line is arbitrary.

To everyone reading my little comment, I say: Try it, you'll like it.

I have trouble even beginning to say in how many ways I disagree with the article, and especially with Hovig's supporting comment. So instead I'll point out where I think we agree:

Dogma is bad.

Open mindedness is good.

Ignoring reality is bad.

Making decisions based on reason is good.

Ideologues (which I take to mean those who blindly advocate some dogma) are bad.

Everything else strikes me as actively dangerous. Oddly enough, a few days ago I wasted some bits on this topic. For people not interested in wading through my whole argument, I'll summarize it thusly: society is shaped by the fictions we at least pretend to believe. And a lot of these fictions are Very Good Things.

The rejection of ideology is just another ideology in my opinion, and one that would lend itself to some really awful abuses.

I am feeling less and less like a republican as I examine the budget: way too much pork in the new spending bill. Although, admittedly, pork is sponsored by both parties and going to states represented by both parties, I see no reason to overlook unnecessary spending just because the congressman calls herself a republican.
I was really proud of the party in 2002 but they're losing me as an ardent supporter.
And the only way this should play, on a pragmatic basis, is to support candidates who can prove a record of not allowing these shenanigans. Throw the bums out, whichever party.
Man that felt good.
I just can't defend a lot of what the GOP has done lately. We did not need to send millions to Alaska, a state flush with cash, for some kind of celebration. We did not need to authorize a pay increase for Congress. In fact, I'm for ending the size of the expense accounts, and while Kennedy might be one of the worst abusers of this, I am sure there are conscientious dems who are not as porfligate as some republicans i can think of.
We should only spend moany we have, unless it is an absolute necessity. That's what conservative means. Stickgin to a budget. I can't be proud of my party if they abandond the principles with control of both houses... in fact I'm becoming more disaffected as I learn more.

I supported Iraqi Freedom 100% and still do. I will be voting for Bush because I like the idea of decloaking the immigration underword and creating a reasonable economy rather than the defacto slavery we have. I also think, no matter what you feel about privacy rights, an 8-month old pregancy is a human being and not an organ of the mother, and I am proud he took that stand.
Also, it looks to me as though Al Qaeda is being surely decimated, and we're winning the war on terror. MY biggest fear is not an anthrax attack, or sarin gas, but a few jihad punks with pipebombs laden with cesium or strontium or some other lab leftover, casting a radioactive cloud in the heart of several business districts in major cities. Imagine a dirty bomb in Dallas, Portland, NY, Philadelphia, Boston... shutting down business, contaminating the streets for YEARS, stopping tourism. How many of you think the American economy could survive that with ease?
The 9-11 killers didn't just kill 3,300 people, it was the attempted murder of 50,000. They wanted the buildings down FULL, not emptied. If they had had a nuke or even radioactive waste to contaminate the wreckage, they would have. There is no limit to the amount of death they would be willing to create.
I believe Jose Padilla be damned, we need to be take extreme measures until these nuts are so isolated and hunted, that they're only recourse is small-scale attacks.
In the meantime, let's help at least one real Arab democracy get started and make it the envy of the Middle East.

Ideology is not bad, in an of itself. We all approach the world with certain pre-conceived notions, which are based upon our education and experience. The ability to apply lessons learned in one area to another area is part of higher intelligence. Ideology becomes problematic, however, when it blinds us to reality. That should be the focus.

Thanx to Hovig! He clarified something very big for me. I have strong opinions, and I know that they can become unpursuasive when I go over the edge. Now I am clear what over the edge is - into hatred and control. My wife is periodically getting mad at me when I inject arrogance or "better-than" ideas and tones into my opinions. She says it only makes the people I want to pursuade angry and defensive. Now I see why. Hatred does not sell. Thank you, Hovig.

Good article. Thanks for the pointer.

Easyone - I'm so touched by your compliment. It's been quite an emotional issue for me too. I wish you the best. It's not easy letting other people have their say, is it. :-)

Hovig, I'm glad you've benefitted from changes made in your intellectual interactions. I don't have a problem with your methodology at all. The problem I have with how you describe the change, and I don't think it's a minor point.

I realized I was trying to control the debate, and win the argument, at any price. That's ideology in a nutshell.

My problem is I don't accept that definition. I would call the "win at any price" demagoguery, and I would agree that it's not the best approach to argument.

Not that I don't believe the same things, because I do, but I'm more confident in them, and more importantly, I don't feel the need to denigrate anyone else.

To my way of thinking, that is ideology. Having a set of principles which informs actions is an ideology. Ideologies can change; for instance, you can abandon the part of your ideology that says "win at all costs" as being counterproductive. So it sounds like you analysed your ideology, found flaws, and adjusted.

The only reason I'm debating this point it because I think terminology matters. Practically speaking you seem to have kept the best of your world view while jettisoning parts of it that caused strife. That's an excellent thing. But I'm afraid that if the "ideology is bad" meme gets outside the world of academia, it will mingle with the "every point of view has equal moral weight" meme and we'll have 40 more years of the mass media mistaking existential angst for deep thinking.

Burgess-Jackson might have escaped an ideology of the left, but he has embraced an ideology of the right. Details here.

"Readers of my TCS columns over the past few months know that I was once a card-carrying, fire-breathing feminist. I abandoned feminism because, after many years of elaborating and defending it, I could no longer tolerate its distortions and evasions. Not to put too fine a point on it, but feminism misrepresents the nature of men and women. Feminists think that if men and women are different by nature, then patriarchy is inevitable."

Funny, I recall the time in which to debate the belief that man and women are different was to incurr the wrath of this writer as my being "closed minded" and "dogmatic." Now, just because she's seen the light we must still leave dogma and "truth" in the trashcan?

This woman is swingin' on a vine, and violently so. Perhaps someday she'll even come to recognize the hideous immorality of abortion... gee, I wonder what she'll have to say to all those women she encouraged to "just do it!"

One of the key elements missing here about ideology is that it is just exactly that...an idea. Greeks were famous for studying a school of thought (or ideology if you will) and living their life by it. As time progressed and their schools of thought advanced so did their ideology.

This is where the hard left (and many people who dont reconize the left) fall flat on their face. The ideology of great experiment of socialism or communism through the stepping stone of socialism has failed utterly.

What I am not sure about is it simply pride that prevents these people from seeing that their efforts have produced the greatest scourge in mankind's history? Is it stupidity or simply willful ignornance?

Hovig & mark -- great exchange! Excessive desire to win an argument is certainly a problem, but having strong beliefs is very important to morality. Ideology is both the idea, and the expression of it: the medium is the message. But there are basic relativistic issues in rejecting “ideology” – if this means a rejection or right & wrong, of good & bad, of truth & un-truth, then it’s terrible.

The intellectual corruption, which is inevitable, occurs when one aspect of truth or goodness is elevated above others. The abortion issue has long been the biggest example: good-choice vs. good-life (with some 20-30% of libertarians pro-life). Life is good. Choice is good. What should gov’t policy be? [a reflection of society; which will be changing to push Adoption as the responsible choice for an unwanted pregnancy]

Today, on top of the abortion divide, there is the Iraq war / American security / America’s place in the world divide. (Kagan has new article about US vs European views on this.) There should be, but doesn’t seem to be, a debate on the best form of spreading democracy and human rights. After 9/11, it is more clear that American security will always be at a high risk, as long as there are dictators in the world, as long as state leaders remain afraid of the words of their people and deny them free press.

America must, in its own interest, lead towards a world without dictators. But is this the right ideological goal? And if so, what is the best path? ME war? Israeli walls? Assassination of ME dictators?

Never let your sense of morals prevent you from doing what's right.

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