January 27, 2004

Jihad

Islamist thugs are murdering Buddhist monks in Thailand.

It’s not because Buddhist monks are “colonialist oppressors,” nor is it because Buddhists drive the engine of corporate globalization. And it’s not because Thailand is a superpower that deserves to be brought to heel. Thai Buddhists don’t need to ask “why do they hate us?” It’s because Buddhists are “infidels.” And that’s that.

As Omer Bartov put it this week in The New Republic:

[W]e still do not seem to have learned a simple crucial lesson that Hitler taught us more definitively than anyone else in history: some people, some regimes, some ideologies, some political programs, and, yes, some religious groups, must be taken at their word. Some people mean what they say, and say what they will do, and do what they said.

(Via Exit Zero.)

Posted by Michael J. Totten at January 27, 2004 12:14 AM
Comments

Oh NO, jihad is a struggle for the personal improvement, right?

Posted by: marek at January 27, 2004 05:50 AM

I'm waitng for people like Irshad Manji to start to be assassinated. Maybe then people will get it through their skulls what the problem is. But I doubt it.

Posted by: eric at January 27, 2004 06:06 AM

It's good to see more people are opening their eyes to the fact that Islamism is Nazism, rather than the religion of peace.

Posted by: JJ Walker at January 27, 2004 06:53 AM

Does anyone -- at this point -- doubt that Islamic extremists are a violent, potent international issue? I think it's pretty clear. Thailand has a serious problem on its hands, and one the U.S. would do well to assist on.

But I think it is wrong, wrong, wrong to center the issue on Islam. Hateful thugs are hateful thugs, whether they're listening to radical clerics or reading Mein Kampf or following Stalinist dogma or hiding from black helicopters. Relentlessly demonizing Islam will never change the fact that a rather significant portion of the world is Islamic. This is a situation for us to address, not simply vilify.

Consequently, I really don't see why it's necessary to point out over and over again that yes, extremists are nasty people. What the hell are we going to do about it? Large scale information campaign like Berman has argued for? Cutting off the worldwide flow of Saudi money to Wahhabi religious schools? Build one hell of good, decent government in Iraq? Of course, we will have to tailor our answers to deal with Islamic extremism, but we'll need to recognize that the problem isn't simply a religion.

One of things that I most admire about Bush was his steady refrain after 9/11 that we had been attacked by terrorists, not Islam. These days, that message seems to have gotten lost somewhere for some people. One only need spend a few minutes at FreeRepublic.com to understand how much senseless hate has built up.

Posted by: harry at January 27, 2004 07:07 AM

Islam is so hopelessly backwards in terms of science, military, economics, politics, culture, that the only conceivable way they can win a clash of civilization vs barbarism is if civilized society allows itself to be slaughtered.

Posted by: JJ Walker at January 27, 2004 07:07 AM

Bush is attempting to reform Islam to the point it is no longer Islam, but Islam in name only. In a way, he will have destroyed Islam without appearing to have destroyed Islam.

There are two way to deal with Islam, you either destroy it with force the same way we destroyed the Nazis and the Japanese, or you can reform it to the point it is no longer Islam, similar to Chinese communism.

The problem is not the people, but the corrupting influences Islam has on them.

Posted by: JJ Walker at January 27, 2004 07:20 AM

here is an interesting website i found a while back:

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Posted by: dd at January 27, 2004 07:41 AM

Thailand has a serious problem on its hands, and one the U.S. would do well to assist on.

Personally, I'm not too concerned about Thailand's ability to deal with this problem once they collectively determine that things have gone too far. My wife is Thai, and after having listened to her proposals on the best way to deal with Bin Laden, Saddam Hussein, and Islamic extremism in general, I can tell you that her ideas were somewhat disturbing even to one as hawkish as myself.

Posted by: MB at January 27, 2004 07:53 AM

Harry,

Your's is a thoughtful post.

In response:

No, I don't think anyone will misidentify an extremist, once identified as an extremist. But herein, lies the problem.

And no, there does not exist, Islamic extremism (read Islamofascism) as a "small minority" in Islam.

The calls to Jihad come from virtually every major Imam/mosque throughout the Arab world, and to a lesser extent the larger Muslim world (see MEMRI for evidence of this.)

I believe it was the point of the host MJT, and the article he quoted, that there indeed exists many who have not yet awakened to this understanding; there are highly motivated and capable people, acting under the banner of jihad, that want to kill you, me, and everyone we know, don't know, who isn't one of them.

Perhaps you have read "Terror and Liberalism" by Paul Berman. If not, do so.

Whether apologists like MP Jenny Tonge in Great Britain, ANSWER, SWP, anti-capitalists/Greens, etc, they all share this: an acceptance and justification of terrorist mass murder, whether by denotating a personally held explosive, car bombs, or by other means.

The question that is never asked, and cannot be answered, is when then, is it not allowable for the aggrieved amongst us to blow themselves up and slaughter those around them?

The threat to liberal democracy is real and imminent. It cannot be stated often enough.

And yes, some people need to be taken at their word.

Posted by: Dog at January 27, 2004 08:43 AM

Harry,

I have Muslim co-workers who are completely normal people. Islam isn't the problem. Totalitarian Islam is the problem. That's what Islamism means - totalitarian political Islam.

Posted by: Michael J. Totten at January 27, 2004 09:42 AM

That's gonna do it for me. I'll be back in a few weeks, maybe. Enjoy your Crusade.

Posted by: Kimmitt at January 27, 2004 09:47 AM

Kimmit,

Considering this, the latest of all the Jihadist proactive murder you've read about; considering the documented massive amounts of money and materiel going to train these murderers--from childhood; considering that you're dealing with a state of mind that holds as normal the stoning to death of women--after their exterior genitals have earlier been removed; and considering the overwhelming and demonstrated evidence that these Islamist Totalitarians are headed our way with the baldly stated intention of killing us all, I would like you to tell me (us) just what it is you are counting on to save you. And when.

I'd really like to know.

Posted by: Stephen at January 27, 2004 10:28 AM

To Kimmitt, pointing out what many are in denial about is an example of a "crusade". I guess when he sees "Osama" by an Afghan filmmaker depicting the nonsense and crap that Islamic clerics deem important to teach their students, he will file it under his "crusade" as well.

Posted by: d-rod at January 27, 2004 11:08 AM

Whoever thinks hatred of America and Israel in the ME is about "the Occupation" is a total idiot. It's about Jihad. This is a war that has been raging since the 7th century when the muslim hordes burst out of the Arabian peninsula and captured and converted the Christian provinces of Syria, Palestine, Egypt, Antioch, etc., invaded Persia and swept across North Africa towards my beloved Spain. Only in the 17th century were they finally stopped at the gates of Vienna itsefl. Osama knows what this war is about, and he's been trying to tell us. But we insist it's about U.S. "policies". What a bunch of Liberal claptrap. Why don't we take Osama and the extremists at their word? To them this is a Jihad, and has been since the 7th century. The Crusades was merely an attempt to roll them back, and they're still pissed about it. Why do you think they still call us "crusaders"? Get with the program people. This has little or nothing to do with U.S. "policies" and "oil". This is a civilizational conflict that has raged across the centuries and will continue to do so. Of course, do you think you'll hear your politicians say this? Give me a break. They have their stocks and portfolios to think about, and the next election. If you don't believe me, read "Islam in Crisis" by Bernard Lewis. He doesn't have an axe to grind, he's just a historian. Read it and learn what you won't learn from watching 10 million hours of CNN.

Posted by: David at January 27, 2004 12:00 PM

I have Muslim co-workers who are completely normal people.

These "normal people" don't shape the events of which we speak. They are irrelevant.

Posted by: David at January 27, 2004 12:04 PM

d-rod,

This movie shows many more things. It's very powerfull, even though I think it has been sanitized a bit for western audiences. I would say it should be seen by every Islam appeaser and apologist. And Kimmit probably should watch it at least twice.

Posted by: marek at January 27, 2004 12:12 PM

Yay! Kimmitt's gone!

He'll be back, though. His kind always are.

Posted by: eric at January 27, 2004 12:19 PM

marek,

Yes, it is powerful. I just checked and it isn't even nominated for an Academy Award. What's up with that, Roger? Anyway, I blogged about it already and am excited about seeing more films from Afghanistan.

Posted by: d-rod at January 27, 2004 12:36 PM

"That's gonna do it for me. I'll be back in a few weeks, maybe. Enjoy your Crusade"

Crusade? tsss, I dont know about everyone else, but I couldnt care less about religion. This is about identifing and confronting a threat, not about spreading christianity, but you go on ahead and bail out Kimmet.

Lead follow or get the f--- out of the way.

Posted by: mnm at January 27, 2004 02:54 PM

It amazes me...No wait, it doesn't amaze me that hate sites like this exist. The truth is not that Islam is Nazism. The truth is that this site and those who follow it are the same as (if not are) the white supremicist Neo-Nazi idiots. You want to hate. You want to fight wars and kill. You want the U.S. to send our troops to fight and die for your ignorance. "The U.S. should be helping Thailand..." Yeah. Send more of our boys to die.

The reality is 9/11 happened for one reason. We practice a foreign policy of arrogance and ignorance. We think the world must bow to us and emulate us. So we go stick our noses and our guns where they don't belong...and people fight back. I am ABSOLUTELY not saying that the 9/11 attacks were justified. Far from it. But if you put your hand in the rattlesnakes lair just to show your dominance, don't be surprised if it bites you.

The way to increase the security of our country is to get out of Iraq, get out of Saudi and stop supporting the Israelis in their genocide of the Palestinians. When there is no reason, there is no target. You will always have some extremists, but power does not come from extremists. It comes from the moderates who are so disenfrancised or angry that they become blind to rational thought and follow the extremists.

Oh, I'm sorry. I used some fairly large words there. If you need help, there is this thing called a "dictionary". You can find it at a place called a "book store".

Posted by: Ken at January 27, 2004 07:54 PM

Ken,

Why did you wait so long to enlighten us? All this time wasted waiting for few clear although fairly large words...

It has been quite some time since I've seen such a pompous and vacuous invective.

Posted by: marek at January 27, 2004 08:08 PM

Ken – On 9/11, a group of wealthy Muslim men, mostly Saudis, financed by members of the Saudi government slaughtered thousands of Americans in an unprovoked act of war. Can you tell us why those Saudis were so resentful?

Two Thai monks were murdered by Muslim fundamentalists. Were they murdered because of their policy of arrogance and ignorance? Were they murdered because of their meddling in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict?

"When there’s no reason, there’s no target." So why were those Buddhists killed?

Why have fundamentalist Muslims been responsible for millions of deaths in the name of their cause?

Moderate Muslims are also a target of the fundamentalists - fundamentalists who believe that any muslims who do not live under a set of pre-medieval laws, Shariah law, are jahilyya, and must be converted or killed. They’re already threatened by these loons, I doubt that they’d be happy with your characterization of them as overemotional and ‘blind to rational thought’. How rude.

If you’re looking for Neo-Nazi idiots, please visit the white supremacists at the National Alliance website, or visit Stormfront. You’ll find lots of friends there, people there who agree strongly with your views on the Israeli/Palestinian conflict & isolationism.

Posted by: mary at January 27, 2004 08:58 PM

It has been quite some time since I've seen such a pompous and vacuous invective.

Emphasis on VACUOUS.

Posted by: David at January 28, 2004 07:27 AM

Ken, be careful. You are one of the people you speak of as having become "so disenfrancised or angry that they become blind to rational thought and follow the extremists." After all, you think Israel is commiting genocide against the Palestinians, which is patently false. Now take a look at who taught you to believe it.

Posted by: Jim at January 28, 2004 09:31 AM

Oh, I'm sorry. I used some fairly large words there. If you need help, there is this thing called a "dictionary". You can find it at a place called a "book store".

Ken,

and at the "book store", they sell "books". Perhaps you should read one. Start with "The Crisis of Islam", by Bernard Lewis. I know, it's not a slogan or a bumpersticker, but it would really help you.

Posted by: David at January 28, 2004 11:00 AM

The thing that amazes me about commentary like Ken's is the utter condescension not just towards his political opponents, but towards the people he's defending. Their actions are completely determined by the foriegn policy of the United States? I should think that we should at least allow that our enemies are autonomous moral agents.

(And then defeat them.)

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