Michael J. Totten: Liberal Reconsideration

January 16, 2004

Liberal Reconsideration

Two days ago I quoted Thomas Friedman in Slate’s mini-series Liberal Hawks Reconsider the Iraq War.

British liberal Oliver Kamm joins the discussion on his own web log.

I am a liberal; I have reconsidered my support for the war in Iraq; and I have to tell my readers that I was right in every respect.

Posted by Michael J. Totten at January 16, 2004 12:32 AM

Comments

Heh. No one will accuse Kamm of excessive humility.

I'd note, just in passing, that some of Kamm's self-righteous tone owes to a false dichotomy between war and containment. Like a lot of the anti-war crowd, I didn't oppose any war ... I opposed this war. A lot of us aren't pacifists ... in fact, I can think of quite a few other places on the planet I'd like to send some U.S. troops.

Posted by: harry at January 16, 2004 07:05 AM

Heh. No one will accuse Kamm of excessive humility.

I hope not, but it's as well to make sure in these matters.

Like a lot of the anti-war crowd, I didn't oppose any war ... I opposed this war.

Precisely my point. That makes your position even more culpable.

Posted by: Oliver Kamm at January 16, 2004 07:35 AM

First, I'm sorry to Micahel and Oliver. I should have this discussion at Oliver's blog ... henceforth I will. Now...

Gosh, the language! My position is "even more culpable"! It isn't sufficient that I might be wrong? I might also be to blame!

To clarify: I didn't oppose a war to depose Hussein, I opposed Bush's war to depose Hussein. Or to put be more specific: I supported a multi-lateral humanitarian intervention, not a campaign of deceit and arrogance against the public, the Congress, and the world and a war led by ammoral and ill-prepared idealogues. The success of the invasion can be measured only in small part now. The true value of our actions, for the population of Iraq, and the populations of the dictatorships we've cynically supported in our charge into Iraq, will only be clearly evident decades from now.

Posted by: harry at January 16, 2004 09:37 AM

Harry,

Was that "multilateral humanitarian intervention" to be backed up with military force?

Just wondering. I'm sure Saddam would have been glad to take any aid your "humanitarian commandos" would have brought. (And then posed for pictures on the airport tarmac and sent you on your way.) But I suspect regular Iraqi civilians would have gotten little of it.

Posted by: Matt Ward at January 16, 2004 09:56 AM

Military force, Captain Snarky.

Geez, talking about helping people is cause for such sneering sarcasm?

Posted by: harry at January 16, 2004 10:13 AM

To clarify: I didn't oppose a war to depose Hussein, I opposed Bush's war to depose Hussein.

It just gets worse. We've now reached the stage where you have no principled objection to war but you wouldn't support one prosecuted by a President you disapprove of even though it was the only one on offer in the cause of liberating Iraq from Baathist totalitarianism. That is equivalent - morally equivalent, which is to say repugnant and not merely mistaken - to the partisanship of Republicans who wouldn't support the rebuffing of Milosevic because it was done by a Democrat.

Posted by: Oliver Kamm at January 16, 2004 10:24 AM

The choice was this or nothing harry. Unless, of course, you could tell me of another Democratic candidate in '04 who would have done so absolutely?

Posted by: FH at January 16, 2004 10:33 AM

Harry: I supported a multi-lateral humanitarian intervention, not a campaign of deceit and arrogance against the public, the Congress, and the world and a war led by ammoral and ill-prepared idealogues.

Harry, suppose Charles Manson and Idi Amin had liberated Iraq for reward money. You still against it?

Posted by: Jim at January 16, 2004 10:42 AM

My mistake, Harry. I couldn't understand your point. "Captain Snarky"...what a cool phrase.

Take 2:

"Multilateral"

But we had the support of 60 countries and now troops from a good half dozen...UK, Australia, Poland, Italy, Ukraine, Japan, S. Korea. Hell, I didn't even realize the Danes and Icelanders were there until they were mentioned in some news story last week. Most countries in Europe support our occupation of Iraq. But all I hear from "anti-Bush-war types" is France, Germany and Russia.

"Humanitarian"

Gee, I thought it was a humanitarian intervention. As well as a security one. Most Iraqis think they're better off. Certainly, the ones not being dropped into shredders. Don't tell me, Harry, you think this was about oil or Haliburton contracts or whatever the latest DNC talking points are. As P.J. O'Rourke put it so eloquently in the January issue of The Atlantic Monthly: "It's a helluva lot cheaper to buy oil than to steal it."

Posted by: Matt Ward at January 16, 2004 10:50 AM

Harry, suppose Charles Manson and Idi Amin had liberated Iraq for reward money. You still against it?

Prolly not. The reconstruction would have been planned better.

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