December 29, 2003

Jeff Jarvis Profiled

Norman Geras profiles Jeff Jarvis:

I called myself a pacifist early in the age of Vietnam and did not change my mind until September 11. There's an old joke that a conservative is a liberal who has been mugged. A hawk is a pacifist in the foxhole.

Posted by Michael J. Totten at December 29, 2003 12:03 AM
Comments

Yes, this entire country pretty much went insane with bloodlust. What's your point?

Posted by: Kimmitt at December 29, 2003 01:56 AM

Kimmitt,
Peace people got there way: 300,000+ more dead under saddam and sons.
War people got there way: 20,000 dead.
Now who has the greater blood lust? And who is insane the people who tried like hell to stop the invasion that removed Saddam, or the people who surported the invasion to remove him?

Derek

Posted by: Derek at December 29, 2003 02:15 AM

Kimmitt,

Bloodlust? Please. Lives were saved because of the invasion. That was the point.

Posted by: Michael J. Totten at December 29, 2003 08:47 AM

Lives were saved because of the invasion.

True, but to Kimmitt those lives don't count because it was Bush who saved them. In fact, because of that, those saved lives actually constitute an embarrassment to the likes of Kimmitt.

Much more laudable to him would have been an attempt to empty Saddam's rape dungeons by an Amnesty International letter campaign--completely innefectual and ignored by Saddam--which could demonstrate the highmindedness and humanitarian feelings of the letter writers. After all, just think of the warm and fuzzy feelings it would have generated for them. Bush robbed them of that.

Posted by: David at December 29, 2003 09:03 AM

Lives were saved because of the invasion. That was the point.

It is my opinion that we could have saved many more lives for much less money with different policies.

Posted by: Kimmitt at December 29, 2003 10:31 AM

It is my opinion that we could have saved many more lives for much less money with different policies.

That's fine, but I'm not "bloodthirsty" because I don't agree.

Posted by: Michael J. Totten at December 29, 2003 11:14 AM

It is my opinion that we could have saved many more lives for much less money with different policies.

Kimmitt,
I have heard this a million time from anti war people and the best they can come up with is, like hire ninja assassins to kill him, or like have the UN remove him. I have yet to hear of any real alternitive to invasion and thats after 2 years of debeat.

Derek

Posted by: Derek at December 29, 2003 11:27 AM

I didn't say Iraqi lives.

Posted by: Kimmitt at December 29, 2003 02:44 PM

Kimmitt said:
I didn't say Iraqi lives.

Thus you knowing argued for something that would have resulted hundred of thousands of deaths.

Derek

Posted by: Derek at December 29, 2003 09:07 PM

Kimmitt said:
I didn't say Iraqi lives.

Dagnabbit, Kimmit, just last week I went public with tending to think well of you despite differing world views and now this. What's the equation? How many Iraqi lives are one U.S. life worth? Two thousand, maybe?

Posted by: triticale at December 30, 2003 10:51 AM

How many Iraqi lives are one U.S. life worth? Two thousand, maybe?

Where did this come from? I said we could have saved more lives with different policies if we weren't obsessively focused on Iraq. Those lives could be American, Sudanese, or East Timorian; it's irrelevant. For example, to bring up a tired point, we could eradicate measles from the human population at an estimated cost of 1/40th of the Iraq war, saving approximately 870,000 lives per year.

Posted by: Kimmitt at December 30, 2003 11:19 AM

we could eradicate measles from the human population at an estimated cost of 1/40th of the Iraq war, saving approximately 870,000 lives per year.

I have no idea if this is really true or not, but I'll assume for the sake of discussion that it is.

There is no reason why we couldn't do both, especially if disease eradication is so much cheaper. We have a lot of money in this country, and it isn't all going to one place.

The way for the Democrats to beat the GOP is go back to "guns and butter" liberalism. The two are not mutually exclusive, and it annoys me to no end that the Democrats are now making us choose only one.

Posted by: Michael J. Totten at December 30, 2003 11:33 AM

Valid, but at some point Things Cost Money, so you can only have some things and not others. I'd much have preferred to have a smaller deficit and measles eradicated with Iraq contained than to have an enormous deficit, measles still extant and significant, and Iraq conquered but with a frighteningly uncertain future.

Posted by: Kimmitt at December 30, 2003 01:53 PM

Kimmitt: I notice you never answered the question Derek asked you. I will re-ask it in simpler terms, since obviously he used too many big words:

What. Different. Policies. Have. Helped?

But I doubt you will answer the question. Fools like you don't have any answers, and your questions are on the level of toddlers asking over and over why is the sky up above and the ground down below.

Posted by: Andrea Harris at January 1, 2004 12:22 PM

Urgh. I meant:

What. Different. Policies. Would. Have. Helped?

Never forget to use all the verbs you need.

Posted by: Andrea Harris at January 1, 2004 12:23 PM

Yeah, when you're getting all ad hominem and calling people "fools," it does help to actually include all the words in your nastily worded rhetorical question.

Grownups understand that some problems don't have good solutions -- that we can't fix everything with a nice war and come home in time for Christmas. Iraq was one of them.

Yeah, I accept that my approach would likely have forced Iraqis to endure more years as the objects of brutal oppression. The world is a nasty place, and we are not omnipotent. When we do one thing, we forego other things. For example, we've already foregone a few hundred Americans' next birthday celebrations, not to mention our chance to permanetly finish off the Taliban.

Posted by: Kimmitt at January 1, 2004 10:15 PM

Ending the malaria problem is a no-brainer: bring back DDT. Of course, keeping rich-white-treehuggers happy is more important than saving brown people from malaria as far as the "No Oil for Hitler" crowd.

Posted by: Phelps at January 2, 2004 01:31 PM

Kimmit = troll.

Posted by: SP at January 9, 2004 12:35 PM

What. Different. Policies. Would. Have. Helped?

still no answer to the question.

Posted by: frendlydude2k at January 11, 2004 03:17 PM

No, there was not an answer you agreed with.

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You have a pretty nice blog. English is not my native language but it was please to read your site. From Russia with love :)Sincerely yours..

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