November 18, 2003

Britain: America Doesnít Suck

Andrew Apostolou emailed me this piece from the Guardian.

A majority of Labour voters welcome President George Bush's state visit to Britain which starts today, according to November's Guardian/ICM opinion poll.

The survey shows that public opinion in Britain is overwhelmingly pro-American with 62% of voters believing that the US is "generally speaking a force for good, not evil, in the world". It explodes the conventional political wisdom at Westminster that Mr Bush's visit will prove damaging to Tony Blair. Only 15% of British voters agree with the idea that America is the "evil empire" in the world.

It still amazes me that even 15 percent think weíre the new (or is it old?) evil empire. At least it isnít the norm.

And look at this.

The ICM poll also uncovers a surge in pro-war sentiment in the past two months as suicide bombers have stepped up their attacks on western targets and troops in Iraq. Opposition to the war has slumped by 12 points since September to only 41% of all voters.
Terrorism isnít working on the British.

Posted by Michael J. Totten at November 18, 2003 12:48 AM

Yes, Michael, all that may be true. But since Red Ken says that George W. Bush is the greatest threat in human history (leaving aside the Jews being herded into ovens or the Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution), there must be something wrong with Bush!

Ah, the Idiotarians. Just when you run out of stuff to blog about they come along to save the day. The minute Ted Rall's comments start to lose their legs, along comes Ken Livingstone to remind us just how bloody clueless much of the Eurotrash Left has become.

Who cares about what most Labour voters think! It's the guy in the Che shirt standing next to the big papier-mache GW that will make the news. Speaking of which, does anyone have the Over and Under on how long the London Starbucks lasts before the Anarcho-Syndicalists take it out?

Posted by: section9 at November 18, 2003 06:16 AM


You know the left better than I do. Or, rather, I know mainly the academic left (all too well), so I probably tend to overestimate the proportion of the unhinged relative to the reasonable. What fraction of Americans would you guess agree with that 15% in the UK?

Posted by: JPS at November 18, 2003 07:36 AM

I'm not sure terrorism works anywhere except those places where folks just lie down and take it.

Not sure it works for anyone either, except as above. Once again, if we don't know the poll questions, we don't know anything from the poll--but wouldn't be mad fun to run the same questions by the folks in the West Bank and Gaza. When adjusted for any dissenter's (entirely rational) fear of being dragged into the street and shot by the P.A., the response might be surprising.

Posted by: Stephen at November 18, 2003 08:00 AM

What fraction of Americans would you guess agree with that 15% in the UK?

How many college students and academics are there in this country? (kidding...well, sort of)

Posted by: spc67 at November 18, 2003 08:19 AM

"I'm not sure terrorism works anywhere except those places where folks just lie down and take it."

Extreme poverty imposes a kind of helplessness. Many people with unearned extreme wealth impose a kind of helplessness upon themselves and as many around them as they can reach. I don't know exactly why trust funds impose this kind of psychosis, but it is a deplorable side effect of the second generation of success.

Posted by: Patrick Lasswell at November 18, 2003 11:01 AM


I think it's simple: most people can't really think outside of their own particular circumstances, and lack the imagination necessary to put themselves in someone else's position. That's why the loony left is deeply concerned about Americans and Brits killing Iraqis but unconcerned about Iraqis killing each other. It's a kind of emotional and intellectual laziness and ennui. As long as they're not personally culpable, they don't really give a damn about what happens to other people. This is a latent narcissism as much as anything else.

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Mark Steyn hits another home run in his latest Telegraph essay: "America is George Orwell's Room 101."

Posted by: Hovig at November 18, 2003 01:15 PM

Daniel says of lefties that they're unconcerned about Iraqis killing each other because of they're intellecually slothful. Perhaps. But I suggest two other possibilities:

1. They're Marxists. It doesn't fit with the program to point out poor people's wrongdoings. Actually, they're not really wrongdoings, according to the nihilistic dogma, as they count as wrong only relative to the morality imposed by the elite.

2. They're racists. They don't expect brown people to behave.

Actually, 1 is just a species of 2.

Posted by: Jim at November 18, 2003 05:16 PM

You know, its funny... on NPR yesterday I think they were talking about that same poll. They talked about the anti-war demonstrators readying their pink tanks to knock over statues of President Bush etc. They then said that despite the massive protests, the Guardian came out with a poll saying that Brits were, overall, not opposed to Bush's visit. Accompanying this bit of news, they played a clip of one demonstrator saying something along the lines of "let him come here and hear our dissaproval." Quite a different spin.

Posted by: grs at November 19, 2003 05:58 AM


I agree that that's the case with some anti-war protesters, but it's the minority. There are plenty of "good liberals" who strenuously oppose the war who are neither Marxists or racists. A lot of these people, to me, simply seem deeply self-involved and rather ignorant of what has taken place in recent or more distant history. I think they're trying to avoid thinking about unpleasant and difficult issues because such thought makes them deeply uncomfortable.

Personally, I am crystal clear that Islamofascists would happily blow apart my two little boys and cheer their deaths because they are infidels. This is an unacceptable threat, and needs to be forcefully addressed. I want my government to kill, imprison, or disable such killers with all the resources available to them.
As a New Yorker, I can tell you that one 9/11 is more than enough for me.

I actually had one guy on Calpundit argue that 9/11 hadn't affected him at all, that it was like an earthquake or a hurricaine. I pointed out that this was an incoherehnt position, as 9/11, for better or worse, had fundamentally altered the foreign policy of the world's most powerful nation. There is just no arguing with that kind of ignorant certitude, however.

Posted by: Daniel Calto at November 19, 2003 07:08 AM

You need to be carefull how you interpret the figure that indicates a majority of Labour voters welcome Bush's visit. Blair is losing popularity within his own party and I am certain that a portion of those who "welcome" the visit do so because they believe it will be a disaster for the PM who has Gordon Brown waiting in the wings to take over.

The results of the good v evil question are a bit suspect as well. If I were asked that question I would probably have to answer positively even though I have very serious reservations about direction of the current administration and the effect of this on the world as a whole. Without the option of some shades of gray I think most people would answer in the same manner even though they might not view the US as a knight in shining armour.

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I agree with you the way you view the issue. I remember Jack London once said everything positive has a negative side; everything negative has positive side. It is also interesting to see different viewpoints & learn useful things in the discussion.

Posted by: penis at October 7, 2005 04:18 AM

I agree with you the way you view the issue. I remember Jack London once said everything positive has a negative side; everything negative has positive side. It is also interesting to see different viewpoints & learn useful things in the discussion.

Posted by: penis size at October 19, 2005 04:01 AM
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