that's spelled "I, R, O, N, Y"

Try again, Chris. See my update link.

I'm sure the irony will be lost on the families of dead servicemen, and on the Islamists who will use it for propaganda.

Tar. Feathers. Now.

Funny you didn't fisk Ann Coulter when she called for the murders of US troops. Instead, just like her, you accuse Ted of "anti-americanism."

Irony like hell. Rall is frigging depraved.

Amazing that Rall really is syndicated.

Does anyone there read his depravity prior to sending it out across the nation?

Indymedia-head:

Ann Coulter is precisely the reactionary shithead she seems to be. Ted Rall, on the other hand, pretends to be a passionate champion of progressive ideals but is actually a reactionary shithead. Ted Rall can say things that Ann even Coulter could not get away with but, as long as he pawns it off as left-approved rhetoric, people on the left are not supposed to be offended by it. Rall happens to support fascism abroad rather than at home, but even Ann Coulter, to my knowledge, does not go quite as far as Rall in terms of openly applauding terrorism, though she too apologizes for murdering-scum (ie: abortion clinic bombers: http://students.washington.edu/right/12-4-01/coulter.htm)

But more to the point: there is absolutely no basis for denying that Rall's editorial is anti-American -- that's the whole point of the piece. I can't imagine Ted Rall himself would deny it -- it's a mere statement of fact, not an accusation. And I'm surprised and intrigued that you even implicitly acknowledge that the term "anti-American" is an insult. That's a start.

D.I.S.G.U.S.T.I.N.G.

Bush-Hate, Jew-Hate, Success-Hate ... America-Hate. The convergence of hatreds.

Funny you didn't fisk Ann Coulter when she called for the murders of US troops.

She didn't. You are sadly misinformed.

Lefthead,

Either you're way off or you've heard something I haven't. Either way, I'm calling your bluff.

When and where did Ann Coulter call for the murder of U.S. troops?

I'm sure Rall, like similar America-haters would say they wish only the best for America. And up is down, and left is right, and 2 + 2 = 5.

These are seriously misguided people, and dangerous to this country, even if they themselves don't know it.

I don't even have words.

And yet, none dare call it treason.

i hope this raving lunatic rall drowns in his own bile, but i suspect there are numerous useful fools like lefthead who are applauding the column, so he'll probably keep writing.

"His column is distributed by Universal Press Syndicate. I can hardly believe they distribute this crap."

Sadly enough, he has a rather broad audience, and that's precisely why he is distributed. Same with Michael Moore. Let's just forget these clowns.

Michael,
My first reaction to this was that Rall was just trying to be an Ezra Pound. But at least Pound claimed to be mentally ill for his behavior. And Pound actually did go to jail ... even without the Overlord Ashcroft at the helm.

Irony, satire is more than the writer's intention. The readers have to pick up on it as well. (And that's assuming that the writer intends satire or irony.)

I wrote a little more over at my place, but it doesn't really lend anything more to the debate.

But thanks for chiming in. I was dying to know what your reaction would be.

Skewering beyond-the-fringe types like Rall is good fun, I suppose, but dare we hope that you'll address what appears to be the dramatic shift in the administration's strategy regarding (and belated acknowledgement of) the problems in Iraq?

The "no plan" plan doesn't seem to be going especially well, in case you hadn't noticed.

Indeed, some seditious lefties like myself recognized signs four months ago that the administration was developing a plan to "cut and run" -- oops, I mean "declare victory and run" -- before November 2004, which more than ever appears to be the case. Any of the tough-minded hawks out there make a similar call?

Swopa:

I've never understood that phenomenon whereby one blogger assigns a topic to another blogger, or more exactly, whereby one blogger assigns both a topic and the correct opinion on said topic to another blogger. What is that exactly? And how does it relate to thread-hijacking?

Swopa,
Let me get this straight. Since the beginning of this thing, the Left has been screaming not to go to Iraq, and now to "bring our troops home" and to get out.

But if Bush does pull out--which isn't going to happen--you're going to stand there and say "I told you so."

Just because they hand over "power" to the Provisional Authority or whomever sooner (if, indeed, they do that), doesn't mean they're pulling the troops out.

It's both turning into a "quagmire" and we're ready to "cut and run". The Rumsfeld memo says it's going to be a "long, hard slog", which means that the Left can say ""I told you so", but we're also planning on "cutting and running" which means that they can say "I told you so". It's all so confusing. Maybe Ted Rall can explain it to me.

Have you all read Ted Rall's bold plan for Iraq?

He's got it all figured out. "We can get out of Iraq early, save lives, and reduce anti-Americanism around the world," he says.

Money quotes (in the voice of Dubya):

"Should the international community agree, we propose the withdrawal of every last American soldier from Iraq. They should be replaced by 400,000 U.N. peacekeepers--ideally led by those from Arabic-speaking countries--to police the streets. We ask for no control and no input in this operation. Send us the bill. We'll pay whatever it costs, for as long as it takes."

Also this:

""Finally, those who wage war before attempting to resolve conflicts through diplomatic means must face personal responsibility for their actions. Therefore, I will immediately turn myself, my vice president, the officials of my cabinet and certain members of Congress over to the international tribunal at The Hague for prosecution for war crimes in connection with our illegal invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan. In accordance with this decision, I hereby resign the office of President of the United States, and respectfully await instructions from Secretary Annan as to where to present myself for surrender."

It's like anti-American porn.

Swopa has a point that Rall can't possibly be part of any serious discussion on these issues. He's sort of an unwitting humorist -- a cruelly unfair parody of the antiwar crowd, who also happens to be sincere member of the same.

The trouble is that some rank and file progressives actually buy this stuff. I've met them IRL. They put the the idiot in "idiotarian." And many of those who don't quite actually buy it wholesale seem to think that it is a slightly over the top tonic to offset the Fox News revolution. They sort of chuckle at it and say, 'Well, he does have a point."

Almost makes you wonder whose side Rall is really on, because he ain't doing the Left any favors.

Swopa,

What dramatic shift in administration policy?

What belated recognition of the problems in Iraq?

Our ultimate goal in Iraq has always been to turn administration of the country over to the Iraqis, leaving a representative (if not democratic)government in place. I doubt that's going to happen fully before next November, and I suspect the Bush White House shares that assessment.

After all, U.S. troops are still in Bosnia after eight years. For that matter, U.S. troops are still in Afghanistan after two years.

What the administration does want to do is to reduce American troop levels as more Iraqi policemen/soldiers take over and to reduce our administration as an Iraqi administration takes more control. But that's going to be a years-long process, a fact that Bush made no secret of in the run-up to the war and a strategy that he certainly isn't changing now.

We're facing a fierce insurgency by Baathists and their Islamist allies, two groups that have very shallow support from the Iraqi populace. They are indiscriminately killing everyone they can, including Arabs who are not supporting the U.S.-led-coalition but just standing on the sidelines. That's hardly an effective strategy for deepening their support among the Arab street at large.

Their only (and quite apparent) strategy is to scare people like you, European elites, the U.N., and other groups that never supported the invasion of Iraq in the first place to pressure Congress and President Bush to cut and run.

Haven't you learned yet that Bush will never cut and run? He wants to make a real difference in that festering, corrupt, dangerous part of the world. I realize the Left has lost most of its idealism since communism proved a sham, but can't you see the practical reasons why we'll never leave Iraq until the Mission Is Accomplished.

And we're still Europe after 61 years! IT MUST BE A QUAGMIRE! No wait! Troop strength in Europe was cut after the Berlin wall came down. CLINTON CUT AND RAN!

Attention Iraq Resistance Fighters! There is hope! Our comrade in the US, Ted Rall is doing his best to give us comfort and aid! Since our murderous two decade reign of terror, genocide, rape, aggression and rape was, ahem, interrupted on April 9, 2003, we have regrouped and started murdering Iraqis again. It almost seems like old times except that now the graves will probably marked. Anyway, please send money to Ted Rall so his message will spread and force the Americans to leave. Who knew Saddam had so many friends?

One of the joys of the freedom of speech is that we can say anything we want about Ted Rall. Rather than let my personal animus for this individual disturb my civility, which may have been one of his aims, I will simply send a firm but polite letter to his publisher asking for his dismissal.

We can scream and yell all we want here. Forcing him to live on the streets, screaming his rants in urine soaked trousers is much better justice. He'll still be free to speak and ask for spare change anywhere in the country.

To the editors,

Ted Rall's Veteran's Day column was offensive to me. I am a veteran who served from 1987-1985 in the US Navy. While I do not require all people to bow and scrape to me for my sacrifices on this day, I do appreciate at least a modicum of respect for my efforts.

I understand the need for balance in the opinion columns, and if there was the slightest indication that Ted Rall had any interest in balance I would not be writing this. There is no reason to believe that Ted Rall respects me, the other members of my family who have served, my friends who have served, or anybody who has ever made this nation possible. There is every reason to believe that he welcomes our death at the hands of vicious genocidal criminals for presuming to free slaves. This is not a view that I can see benefits, educates, or enlightens me. This is a view that functions to glorify the sworn enemies of my nation.

I do not begrudge Ted Rall's right to say these things. As far as I'm concerned, he can go to any street corner in America and shout them at the top of his lungs. He can go to blogspot.com and publish them to his heart's content for free. He can print stacks of his articles at Kinko's and distribute them everywhere. I will not call for his arrest or harm upon his head.

However, Ted Rall should not be paid for this hateful rhetoric. Not by a major news agency that intends to present factual reporting with integrity. I ask for his dismissal for cause. He has violated any contract by presenting odious views as reasonable commentary. He does not deserve to be paid for hating me.

Patrick S Lasswell
Portland, OR

If Rall =really= believes this stuff, and

if he =really= supports the violent "Iraqi insurgency", and

if he is in the United States penning this drek,

does that make him a chicknhawk?

I think the only reasonable way to soldier on at this point is to assume that Rall is, in fact, (unwittingly) producing satire and irony - about those who oppose the liberation of the Iraqi and Afghan people.

Patrick:

Can you please post the e-mail to Universal Press Syndicate or whomever it is that you're sending that too?

I'd like to send my own as well. Though, to be honest, until I became involved in the blogosphere I'd never heard of this guy. Since then, I've grown to hate him (especially since reading the whole "Free Dirty Danny" site), but I'm not sure how much influence he really has. Where are his comics actually published? I'm assuming there the ones that are in the back of "alternative weeklies" next to the phone sex and escort ads right? Do some of them carry these execrable columns as well? It's disturbing enough that the Village Voice would publish that disgusting hit piece he wrote on Art Spiegelman though. I'd like it go get to the point that he's generally (and correctly) known as such an insane, evil, moron that no one would actually publish his stuff and he's down to the street corner ravings and blogspot stuff you're talking about ideally. What's the best way to effect that exactly?

Judging from his website, Rall seems like a truly pathetic dude, a thirtysomething version of your typical 19 year old spoiled, suburban, pseudo-anarchist all hopped up on dimwitted radical politics. Totally growth stunted. He says he loves the Clash -- what an insult to that great band. Not just ultraleft -- the stupid ultraleft. I don't understand how he can make a living at this.

On the other hand, some of what he writes is not all that different from tripe written on Al-Jeezera -- and Americans SHOULD be reading that stuff more.

I would like to see more of "our" views in the message and comment sections of wingnut websites. It is great that we can all clap ourselves on the back and say how much better we are than scum like Ted Rall & co. and even occasionally write a letter to editors. But I, for one, am tired of taking my views to these scumbags and not getting any backup. Sure you will be banned from posting again, especially if you explain yourself reasonably, but these people live in an alternet.com universe and need to see that evil and terror exist in the real world, and so do they. This guy www.billmon.org is a good starting point with dozens of links to like-minded loonies. Have fun.

Eric,

With pleasure:

http://www.uexpress.com/cgi-bin/support.cgi

It's also on my copy of the letter on my blog;
http://pslasswell.blogspot.com

Thank you Patrick. I'll check out the blog post as well.

My girlfriend, the world's most apolitical person, thought the Rall column was pro-war. Click here for the reasoning.

The thought of how Rall would feel to be called "pro-Iraq-war" calmed me down considerably.

Look, Rall is a Fifth Columnist. Period.

All one had to do was look at Totten's update piece containing Rall's reaction to the murders of Iraqi policemen to understand what Rall desires for American servicemen:

Death. He wants American soldiers to die at the hands of our enemies.

Period. Rall is so obsessed with the "Bushjunta" that he wants American soldiers to be killed by Iraqi National Socialists. Get this, people. Rall is cheering on the 21st Century's answer to the Brownshirt movement. He wants the fascists to win the war; not just the campaign in Iraq-the entire war on terror.

It has its own internal logic, of course. As I understand it, Rall has been a self-professed Marxist for some time now. Marxists, if they are serious, desire the defeat of the nation in war. Until, of course, they come to power. In that case, they will prosecute any war with no thought of sparing the society or the troops. As the Soviet generals said during the Great Patriotic War; "Don't spare the men".

Sadly, there are those on the left who will find a way to excuse Rall, to rationalize what he did. One poster above predicts that there will be more than a few "progressives" who say, in reaction, "Well, he has a point." Hopefully, we will see people on the Left speak up and call for Rall to be shunned by all citizens of good will. I'm not so sure how widespread that reaction will be, however.

Rall isn't a fool. He knew exactly what he was doing, and the logic of his column remains internally consistent.

He is a traitor, no less than Julius and Ethel Rosenberg, no less than Oswald Mosely or Kim Philby. He is also a careful traitor: did you notice how he disguises his opinion in the form of a fictional Iraqi "memo"? He wants deniability, the little shit. He wants to be able to keep his syndicated column. It just hit me that this is one little salon revolutionary who still cares about paying the mortgage and the car payment.

No work in the Venceremos Brigades for Comrade Ted, that's for damn sure!

Ted Rall has chosen to align himself with the darkest force to shadow the world since the time of Pol Pot and Mao. He has a right, under the Constitution that he apparently despises, to speak his mind. We have the right to shun him.

Be Seeing You,

Chris

I've got a better idea for Ted Rall:

Send him to Baghdad so he can join the "resistance"

Don't call him anti-American, that would be hate speech. Plus, it would offend him.

/sarcasm off

Rereading the Rall column, I had two thoughts:

1. First, he is a graceless and tone-deaf writer. I honestly don't want to pile on the guy but he sounds like an overeager 10th-grader who's been given the task of writing the class essay. It's just wooden writing with thin arguments.

2. He couches those arguments in the old Marxist language of class conflict, especially when he's referring to American soldiers. I find this equal parts obscene and hilarious. He's on somewhat solid ground when he refers to U.S. troops as working class, but even there he misses the point that many American soldiers come from and are members of the middle class. Where did Marx situate the middle class? I guess he didn't. That's one of the great weaknesses of Marxist thought.

Where Rall is totally off-base is in characterizing the insurgents as great defenders of the downtrodden proletariat, like they are Caeser Chavez or somebody. That's laughable!Nothing could be further from the truth. The Baathists are a bunch of mafioso who couldn't care less about the poor of Iraq. They are just trying to crawl back into power so they can brutalize the decent people of Iraq just like they have for 40 years. Baathism had a Socialist gloss back in the 1950s, but it's long since descended into crude strongman politics in Iraq and hereditary monarchy in Syria.

As for the Islamists, they are mainly a group of spoiled, rich boy-men who graduated from university and then found their despotic, corrupt Gulf State governments presiding over stunted economies in which Western professionals and Third World laborers do all the work. They care nothing for the working class. They are just frustrated that the only jobs available are meaningless four-hour-a-day office jobs shuffling useless paper around. These 20-something adolescents then channel their shame and rage at their governments into Islamic fundamentalism where they kill Westerners, Jews, and Third World Muslim guest workers alike.

For the last time, Islamic terrorists are not motivated by poverty or colonialism or outdated Marxist concepts of class warfare. If poverty were the cause of terrorism, the U.S. would be fighting black African and Carribean terrorists. Islamic terrorism is created by the nexus of great oil wealth, political backwardness, and a dysfunctional culture.

Still waiting to learn when and where Ann Coulter called for the murder of US troops, or, failing that, where lefthead got the idea.

Rall's cartoon appears every week in the Village Voice. Where else I don't know.

See, that's just disturbing, and the Voice published that Spiegelman smear piece too. How could they publish this crap? It's the very opposite of humanism/liberalism or whatever they supposedly stand for. What a dispicable human being. I'm actually disturbed to live in the same city that he does. I can't believe that the Voice publishes him. It lends him way too much respectability and makes it way too hard for leftists to pretend that they have nothing to do with the likes of him.

Well, if you live in NYC you know the Voice is a piece of crap. I can't tell if it used to be a substantial political weekly 20 years ago, or if it was just as cliched and self-important but I was just a lot younger then.

Not to diminish Patrick's excellent letter on the subject, but did he participate in the Philadelphia Experiment during his stint in the Navy? I'm wondering how many years of subjective time passed "from 1987-1985."

:)

Wait a minute, a lefty can be a wingnut too? I thought only we righties could get called that. Oh well, there goes the neighborhood.

Here's my take on the matter:

http://dubitoks.tripod.com/a-nov-03.html#whoa

Christopher,

Actually, I was stationed in Philadelphia from 1988-1991, but I participated in no major temporal anomolies that I or my twenty-seven clone brothers are aware of.

Hope that clears things up.

Dear Patrick.
This isn't 2003. It's 2023. Sorry.

Dave.

No. It's 2323. Take the Red Pill. Avoid the movie...

Be Seeing You,

Chris

"Actually, I was stationed in Philadelphia from 1988-1991, but I participated in no major temporal anomolies that I or my twenty-seven clone brothers are aware of."

I stand in awe of your likely insurance policy premiums. :)

If you really want to piss Tud Roil off, then for the love of Mithra buy a copy of Legal Action Comics.

I'm sure that Ted Rall must be extremely amused at how offended you guys are. I mean, he is a shock columnist like Ann Coulter. His popluarity largely depends upon angering people like you.

PLEASE - try to shut him down. Go ahead - make as much noise as you can about Ted Rall. This is how Ann Coulter became a bestselling author.

I'm not a huge Ted Rall fan, but I can tell you that fact that he has an audience is a direct result of 15 years of right-wing hate columns and radio. After years of Ann Coulter calling me a traitor (because I have different views on economics than she does) and more than ten years of Rush Limbaugh and his ilk, there is an audience for pundits who HATE your world view. reading Ted Rall is a defensive reaction to constantly being attacked...

So - While I think that Rall's irony (and it is irony) is a bit extreme, I can say with some confidence that he did not invent the sort of divisive politcal bad taste that he employs. He learned it from your pundits

If you are uncomfortable with what he has to say and the way that he chooses to say it, look to your own people for his inspiration. And if you continue to support hate mongers like Ann Coulter and Michael Savage, get used to Ted Rall - he may be the first of many such writers to come...

a.,

Abbie Hoffman was an illusion? Radical leftists did not spring fully formed from the brow or anus of Rush Limbaugh. Although their ancestry is not much more distinguished, there was a time when they actually hoped to get a message across instead of just pissing people off.

How anybody can point to first causes instead of real solutions this late in the game eludes me. Our nation has been attacked and we are defending ourselves abroad against likely threats with a variety of methods. Competing to be least civil and most detached in a world on fire is a bizarre response, but if it is the only thing you can do, don't expect praise for your self indulgence.

Who cares if others are despicable? That is no justification for consuming yourself with hatred.

An impressively lame defense of Ted Rall by a, amounting to little more than "He did it first, Mommy". Wow, that puts Rall in proper perspective, doesn't it?

One has to ask why, in times such as these, that the arguments put forth by the Far Left and those put forth by a five year old seem identical in both form and content?

a: And if you continue to support hate mongers like Ann Coulter and Michael Savage

Who do you think you're talking to here? I don't respect Ann Coulter or Michael Savage in the slightest, let along "support" them.

Borrowed from Darren Kaplens blog. http://www.darrenkaplan.net/
Pass it on.

Let Universal Press Syndicate Know What you Think of Ted Rall
Everybody is talking about this execrable piece by Ted Rall exhorting the Iraqi insurgents to kill more U.S. soldiers but nobody is doing anything about it.

Why don't you let Rall's syndicator know how you feel about this type of "content?" You might try contacting:

Lee Salem, Executive Vice President and Editor
Universal Press Syndicate
4520 Main Street
Kansas City, MO 64111-7701
(800) 255-6734
lsalem@amuniversal.com

Note that this is a toll-free call.

Posted by Darren

Also: Leave a comment at
http://www.uexpress.com/cgi-bin/support.cgi
Pass it on.

What you don't get, a., is that many of us engaged in this coversation have not simply picked a side root for like it's some kind of rhetorcial football game. Some of us are actually serious. We listen. We think. Subsequently, we think Ann Coulter is an ass, AND Rush Limbaugh, AND Michael Moore, and, yes, Ted Rall. Something important is going on in the world right now, and these clowns are shouting nonsense form the sidelines.

Personally, I don't mind much if Rall keeps writing his execrable column. I kind of like to keep him where I can see him. He's not doing the anti-war movement any favors.

The only thing that worries me about him is that he gives fodder to the Ann Coulters of the world. When Ann Coulter says that liberals (like me) are traitors, Rall is there to help make her case for her. Their kind feed each other. They are, ironically, allies.

And, no, a., Rall's piece is not irony. At least not in any sense that makes his crap excusable. You are confusing two different kinds of irony.

If I say, "Rall is a subtle and insightful political thinker," I would be joking. And so when David replied, 'Are you mad?" I could excuse myself by saying, "No, I was being ironic."

When Rall says that the native Iraqi police are "collaborators" like unto the Nazi colloborators in occupied France, and that when foreign terrorists murder them with a car bomb, the victims "had it coming" (direct quote), Rall is not kidding. He means it.

The only sense in which Rall's piece can be considered ironic is that he highlights what he perceives as a reversal of roles -- that is: we think we're the good guys, but, according to him, we're the bad. He thinks that the liberation forces in Iraq are actually conquering fascists, and that the Iraqis struggling to create a just and democratic society for themselves are collaborating with our fascism, and that the real fascists (Baathists) who seek to regain power through murder and mayhem are actually valiant freedom fighters. And yes, this is "ironic" in the sense that is the opposite of what many might expect to hear. But it's also exactly what he means, and it is also horribly wrong, and therefore worthy of whatever invective decent people care to heap upon it.

I'm not going to read Rall ( is this a play on Rawls?), but a. has a point about hate. Since Clinton was lousy enough to allow Reps to indulge in hate (unlike Carter), the liberal hate-Rep monopoly media has been broken, and they HATE that. Let's not forget Reagan-hate, and especially Nixon-hate.

Nixon (an odius guy), where hate & media made America cut & run, and let Pol Pot kill 2+ million. While the left acts morally superior.

But there is a very serious point--how much are citizens in a democracy responsible for their country's gov't actions? It can't be none; but in that case all Americans share some guilt for all immoral US gov't actions. ... so only the oppressed under dictators can be innocent.
... so those who died 9/11 are not fully innocent.
(I was booted off alterNet)

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