Has anyone ever posted a summary/guide to the english speaking iraqi blogosphere? I only know salam pax and I've heard of but never read someone called riverbend (or something similar).

I don't think there are very many Iraqi blogs (yet).

But I do have links in my sidebar to Salam Pax, Healing Iraq, and The Mesopotamian.

Baghdad Burning is Riverbend's (anti-Bush) site;
http://www.webofficedemo.com/vendor_customization/Polycom_7-5-2003/lobby.jsp
Apparently Salam Pax got her started. There is also a riversbend, which is kind of a dirty trick, I think, very different, not really Iraqi:
http://riversbendblog.blogspot.com/

It's important to watch River, because she has excellent, believable details of mistakes of the occupation (like security police at the University eventually firing over parking spaces). [I don't claim they're ALL true, but I feel most are, maybe all.]

Still not too many, surprisingly.

Sorry:
http://riverbendblog.blogspot.com/

I'm supposed to be doing work, you know.

Interesting site, though: it's weird, but all of a sudden I'm hearing about weboffices and and remote offices and telecommuting, on the radio and in conversation. Not that I could do my job from home, or anything. :(

listening to her line: "your God is not our God" I'm mentally stacking her up with what General Boykin said and seeing congruence.

Alaa is exactly who I've been waiting for. Since 9/11, it has been rare to see a Muslim speak so vehemently against terrorist acts like that. I shouldn't be, but it has been. I don't want to think that all Muslims are terrorists, because I know they aren't. But it gets tough when we see crowds of Palestinians cheering Osama and Saddam and very few clerics speaking against them. It's a problem of volume. The crowds are loud, but the Muslims who condem such acts are quiet.

There must be a good way of supporting Alaa. More than just linking to him (which is a great first step). We need to encourage and foster this sort of thinking, not only in Iraq, but in the Muslim world in general.

Court,

After the terror attacks in Casablanca, thousands of Morroccans marched through the streets in protest against Al Qaeda. I saw the article, and should have linked it.

It's always good to see that sort of thing, Michael. We should try harder to spotlight it so we, and others, don't forget that most Muslims are good people.

Finally, the fabled and elusive "moderate muslim" speaks up. Maybe faeries and unicorns do exist after all.

Give me a break, David. See my comment three posts up.

Michael,

oh that CAIR and "moderate muslims" here in the U.S. would organize similar protests against Al-Qaida for it's attacks against Americans.

...crickets chirping

Despite big blogger links and multiple references in LGF comment sections to a moderate Iraqi muslim blog, Charles has yet to acknowledge it in any way.

I think this is a good litmus test for the LGF crew and guys like David.

Marko,

you linked to a blog, and that's your proof of exactly what???

Is that the voice of "moderate islam" today? a blog in Iraq???

What exactly are you asking "Charles at LGF" to acknowledge?

I am tired of reading that no Islamic moderates exist. What about the moving demonstrations in Iran right after 9/11? What about the millions of Iraqis in exile? What about the hundreds of thousands who have voted with their feet to become part of the West? Do they all secretly harbor a desire to institute sharia?

To say that Western Muslims are Fifth Columnists (Attas in training) is ridiculous--to me, it borders on McCarthite hysteria. Find our enemies, track them down, kill or imprision them. Fine. But let's not say that 1 billion Muslims are our enemies. Islamofascists are the enemy.

Daniel,

what "moving demonstrations" in Iran? A link would be helpful. But to my knowledge, the only demonstrations in Iran have been against the mullahs.

What about the "millions of Iraqis in exile"? You tell me.

And "voting with your feet" means what exactly if you don't also speak with your mouth?

I don't believe a hundred million muslim immigrants are "Attas in training" out to destroy an American city. But the silence of their pressure groups here in the U.S. is deafening (as opposed to the vociferous protesters in Morroco).

you linked to a blog, and that's your proof of exactly what???

Thanks for summarizing the entire blog experience.

Is that the voice of "moderate islam" today? a blog in Iraq???

No, that is the seed of "moderate islam" tomorrow. Quit crapping on the sprout.

What exactly are you asking "Charles at LGF" to acknowledge?

The existence of faeries and unicorns. Duh.

I was very moved and inspired by this clear and total repudiation of Islamofascism coming from a Moslem. I linked it on my blog and talked about it in a lot of other places. It was also linked by some big bloggers. One of the comments said something to the effect of "I've been waiting 2 years and 2 months to hear a Moslem say something like this."

I also do agree with the statement that the moderate Moslems have not been nearly loud enough (in fact they've barely been heard from) and that those touted in some media sources as "moderate" are far from it. However, what I have no understanding of is why someone who bemoans the lack of vocal, moderate Moslems would not welcome those regrettably rare ocassions when moderate Moslems do speak up. Many people made snide comments on Alaa's blog similar to David's comments above when he wrote this beautiful post. What, exactly, is the point of that? If you're sick of the radicals you should encourage the moderates to make statements like this. Give 'em a break. They're probably already alienating their family and friends, maybe risking their life. If on top of that, we react with sarcasm and dismissal, what possible incentive is there fore them to "come out" as it were?

Eric,

I agree that we shouldn't "crap on the sprout", as Marko so eloquently put it (not that I did). But please excuse my healthy skepticism simply because we heard a word of support from a distant Iraqi blog. Statements from muslims like Alaa should be the NORM, not the exception, especially here in America and in the West. But it isn't. And until it is, you'll hear from the millions of skeptics like me.

"you linked to a blog, and that's your proof of exactly what???"

"Thanks for summarizing the entire blog experience."

I think that David may be closer to me on the political spectrum than Marko is, but I have to say that the latter's comeback was really quite good. :)

David:

What I don't understand is what exactly you're skeptical about. If you're saying you're skeptical about how widespread such sentiments are among Moslems that's one thing, but it sounds like you're actually skeptical that this one person in question is telling the truth. You're right that this type of thing isn't heard enough, but that's no reason to be skeptical of it when it is heard.

And, I think hearing this from a "distant Iraqi blog" is a pretty big deal. For one thing, Iraq is in the heart of the Islamic world. For another, because we chose to do the right thing and liberate that country, our country and theirs will be intimately intertwined for years to come. I also think it shows a broader trend which is that Iraq has a large population of educated, professional moderate Moslems and secularists who will be a major force in helping to reform the Moslem world.

I'm 100% sure the Iraqi blogger is sincere.

But think about it. Just the fact that Michael would find her comments remarkable enough to link us to her blog is proof that my skepticism is justified. If her comments were the rule, rather than the exception, why bother highlighting her comments?

The reason that her comments are being linked to is precisely because they are so rare.

You can call me a bigot, racist, right-wing, etc. I don't care. These are the facts.

No offense to anyone here, but I think we (Westerns) all need to acknowledge that our world is not thiers. Americans on the left who are criticized fulminate about "censorship." Americans on the right who don't see their point of view adequately represented by PRIVATE media excoriate against bias that may not even be deliberate. In the not-democracies of many other countries, those who dissent leave behind their widows and orphans.

How completely different must be the habits of thought, word, and action when the environment is so different than ours. When the cost is so high and the result seems so small. The dissenting, moderate voices from the dangerous Middle East have the import of a hundred, if not a thousand, voices in the safer Western world.

God bless Alaa. (And Allah and J-h-v-h too, in case they aren't all one and the same:-)

I also do agree with the statement that the moderate Moslems have not been nearly loud enough (in fact they've barely been heard from) and that those touted in some media sources as "moderate" are far from it. However, what I have no understanding of is why someone who bemoans the lack of vocal, moderate Moslems would not welcome those regrettably rare ocassions when moderate Moslems do speak up.

Bingo. That's what we really need to start doing. And frankly, David isn't helping. Yes, it's true there haven't been a lot of loud moderate Muslims out there. But let's get past that and encourage the ones who do instead of arguing and whining about there not being enough. This is a great step forward. What's especially great is that we can sit here and read it. A year ago that wouldn't have been possible.

Court,

I'm more than happy to accept the title of resident curmodgeon. Why?

Because your statement:

"This is a great step forward,"

regarding Alaa's comments, is an implicit acknowledgement that for 2 years there has been silence from the "moderate muslims."

And curmodgeons such as myself have taken a lot of abuse for pointing out that simple fact.

But the fact that you acknowledge that silence, even if implicitly, is affirmation to us curmodgeons that we were justified in our alarm, even if you affirmed us in a backhanded way, and even if you did so unintentionally.

Moe Lane:
I think that David may be closer to me on the political spectrum than Marko is . . .

No way. I enjoyed everything you posted over at Tacitus and am personally aligned approximately in the area of John Cole.

David and I would likely be in 'violent agreement' if we took the time to talk things out. I just think that Charles needs to spread a little tolerance around to balance out the vitriol found in his comments section. My personal viewpoint matches the 2nd-to-last line of this. I would prefer reading LGF as a pleasure, not a guilty pleasure.

As I said, we need to nurture the "muslim moderate" precisely because it is so rare. I don't see any other alternative short of waging total war on the muslim world or converting billions of people to another faith. I'm not ready to go down that path.

What I especially appreciate about The Mesopotamian is the willingness to actually challenge the dogma and get angry about what he sees happening to a faith he obviously values so deeply.

David: curmodgeons such as myself have taken a lot of abuse for pointing out that simple fact.

It's not what you are saying, it's the way you are saying it. I have Muslim friends and co-workers who share Alaa's view of the world. They are not "fairies" and "unicorns."

regarding Alaa's comments, is an implicit acknowledgement that for 2 years there has been silence from the "moderate muslims."

Absolutely. I said that in my first post. But we shouldn't be saying "It's about damn time", we should be saying "Good job, guys. Let's work together"

Back when I used to read LGF (maybe Dec 2001 thru May 2002), I sent Charles a copy of an email that an American graduate student had sent from Manado, Indonesia (northern Sulawesi near the Philippines), where there has long been an intermixture of Christian and Muslim communities. Charles must have dismissed it as a fabrication by an academic apologist, but the student described how during the Christmas season of 2001 groups of Muslim young men gathered at each of the many Christian churches in the city to protect them from being attacked or burnt down by the Islamist thugs, most of whom were outsiders sponsored by Saudi money and tolerated (thanks to judicious bribery) by the corrupt, Javanese-dominated Indonesian military.

Until very recent times, the pattern throughout eastern Indonesia was for village alliances to deliberately include both Muslim and Christian villages, each of which had complementary external networks to rely on. Thanks to Islamist infiltration and incitement, the whole area has been wracked by sectarian violence since the mid-1990s. Now, after the collapse of the Indonesian economy and the fall of Suharto, there's no one to protect the moderate masses from the thuggish private militias and the equally thuggish military.

It's no wonder people keep their heads down. Just as people in Colombia or Venezuela do nowadays. It has little to do with being Muslim, and everything to do with failed states and well-armed, well-financed private armies.

Court, Michael,

fair enough. But forgive me if my first response isn't "good job" after having been called a "racist" for two years just for stating the obvious.

Joel,

believe it or not, it warms my heart to hear about muslims protecting christians from other muslims. It gives me hope.

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