October 14, 2003
Racism at the New Republic?
What the heck is up with this in the New Republic by Gregg Easterbrook?
"Set aside what it says about Hollywood that today even Disney thinks what the public needs is ever-more-graphic depictions of killing the innocent as cool amusement. Disney's CEO, Michael Eisner, is Jewish; the chief of Miramax, Harvey Weinstein, is Jewish. Yes, there are plenty of Christian and other Hollywood executives who worship money above all else, promoting for profit the adulation of violence. Does that make it right for Jewish executives to worship money above all else, by promoting for profit the adulation of violence? Recent European history alone ought to cause Jewish executives to experience second thoughts about glorifying the killing of the helpless as a fun lifestyle choice."Sigh. It's everywhere now, isn't it? It's really everywhere.
Of all the political magazines I read, the New Republic reflects my views the most. But not today. Not this time.
Martin Peretz, it's time to have a chat with your employee. But no one needs to tell you that.
Gregg Easterbrook: Apologize, and I mean really apologize, or get off my blogroll.
UPDATE: Some readers in the comments think Easterbrook is making a reasonable point badly and isn't actually anti-Semitic. That's possible, hence my question mark in the title of this post. He wrote this on his blog, and I know how easy it is to say something dumb while writing "live" without an editor. But he has quite a hole to dig himself out of. Any writer who "accidentally" writes this sentence should probably think again and hit the delete key: "Does that make it right for Jewish executives to worship money above all else, by promoting for profit the adulation of violence?"
See Roger L. Simon and Meryl Yourish for brutal dissections.
Posted by Michael J. Totten at October 14, 2003 09:45 PMThat's pretty astonishing. Less offensive but no better reasoned is this:
Why do we suppose that, with Hollywood's violence-glorifying films now shown all around the world to billions of people... young terrorists around the globe now seem to view killing the innocent as a positive thing, even, a norm?
Check it: Terrorists murder people because of too much Hollywood violence. If it wasn't for that other paragraph, this is almost a thesis Joe Lieberman could get behind.
Posted by: Christopher Luebcke at October 14, 2003 10:49 PMChris -
The next cool thing would be, at a news conference, several Hollywood Leftists (accompanied by a nodding Chomsky) intoning that too much violence in movies is the reason that the US is the biggest terrorist nation. At that point, with a blinding flash, the entire universe would be sucked down a swirling vortex of circular false logic.
Keith Johnson
Posted by: Keith Johnson at October 14, 2003 11:37 PMWhat kind of apology would you find believable? If he didn't mean it, what possible excuse could he have had for writing it? If he did mean it, how could you trust the sincerity of any overnight reformation?
Posted by: Bruce H. at October 14, 2003 11:42 PMI say dumb things I didn't really mean all the time. Just ask my wife.
Posted by: Kimmitt at October 15, 2003 01:12 AMAs do I Kimmitt. I even sometimes write them, and don't remove them during the edit process.
I'm happy when I have the chance to correct my mistakes, explain how I mispoke, or flat out apologize. Hopefully Easterbrook will be happy to apologize as well, and thank Michael and others for listening to his explanation.
Keith Johnson
Posted by: Keith Johnson at October 15, 2003 01:34 AMI don't see much racism in that article, and I have read it twice to make sure.
However, it missed the point of Tarantino's (and other, similar) movies so much I had trouble suppressing a smile while reading it. I'll never understand how anyone can claim that normal people will go on a killing spree after watching Scream (or Kill Bill).
Isn't it another example of having one rhetorical goal and throwing all possible arguments at it? His article is clearly anti-movie violence; with a (sub?) thesis that movie violence supports terrorism.
He's so against excessive movie violence, he complains that even Disney, the most family (anti-violence?) oriented media org, distributes it. And he complains that Jews at Disney, especially, should oppose murder as a fun lifestyle.
I really think he's much more anti-violence than anti-Jewish here. But, like so much debate since WW II, the Jewish Shoah is the main thing talked about, or around, or is a significant undercurrent. And, whenever one is passionate about some argument, the murder of Jews by Nazis somehow gets into the argument.
Personally, I think the domination of the Holocaust as an almost required theme causes extreme sensitivity to any questions or comments about Jews, or Israel. But how to advise talking about it less without talking about it more?
On the merits of the actual argument that Hollywood violence encourages terrorists, given WW II and before were before TV, and WW I was before extensive movie violence, the fact seems there has been huge amounts of human vs human violence throughout history, and before.
On the other hand, the export of visions of American mass-consuming society, with freedom, violence, promiscuity, individualism, self-gratification, adultery, altruism, community efforts, cross-culteral friendships, and the whole mix, is clearly threatening any "traditional" society, and promising huge, disruptive changes in the current ways of living. Most good, many bad. Both types disruptive.
Posted by: Tom Grey at October 15, 2003 02:08 AMglorifying the killing of the helpless
Dunno if Easterbrook has actually seen "Kill Bill," but I just did and don't recall any "glorifying the killing of the helpless." Every single on-screen killing was of a psychopathic rapist or killer. The only dead helpless people are shown rather pathetically strewn around the wedding chapel.
When you think about it, this is true of Tarantino's other movies as well (although I haven't seen Jackie Brown or Reservoir Dogs for awhile). The people who get killed tend to be bad guys; certainly this is true of the killings he dwells on.
Anti-Jewish smears are bad enough, but distorting the record to support your smears takes it to a whole new level of mendacity.
Posted by: R C Dean at October 15, 2003 04:38 AMI think you overreacted. I'd acknowledge that the aside about Eisner and Weinstein being Jewish seems untethered from anything else in the article, and therefore probably unnecessary. But what did he say that was anti-semitic? The tone of that passage was "come on guys, aren't you better than this?" with respect to some truly garbage movies they'd made. (I read the whole article because your "money quote" obviously required context.) At worst, he was suggesting that they should be better than that BECAUSE they're Jewish. Hardly "arbeit macht frei" stuff. And geez, this is from TNR. As a nearly 20 year reader of that publication, I can assure you that if you want to look for anti-semitism in a publication, there is more fertile ground elsewhere. I'm about as pro-Israel as anyone I know, and sometimes they even embarrass me. I'd give them the benefit of the doubt on this relatively innocous passage.
Posted by: M. Terrien at October 15, 2003 04:53 AMI commented on Roger L. Simon's blog as well, so this is just more of the same.
The funny thing is, a lot of people who think movie violence is bad, also thinks that sports are bad for the same damn reasons. I bring this up, because Gregg rights TMQ about football, a sport he obviously loves.
Let the censorship people cut out the violence in movies, and then they will start in on sports. The slippery slope. That damned slippery slope.
But what do I know, I like Violent Movies and Sports. I am exactly the kind of person that Gregg dislikes.
Posted by: James Stephenson at October 15, 2003 05:07 AMCan someone explain exactly what was racist in that article?
Posted by: TCallion at October 15, 2003 06:08 AMI think the anti-Semitic feeling comes from the juxtaposition of "Jews" and "worship money", i.e. Jews will sell their grandmother for profit.
Posted by: ilana at October 15, 2003 06:39 AMNo, he was saying it was particularly bad for Jews to worship money to the degree that producing a movie that adores violence becomes acceptable. Its bad for Jews because recent history has shown that Jews were victems of a society where dehuminization and acceptable violence almost lead to thier extinction.
He clearly refrences that Christions also produce these films solely for money, but Christians were not almost exterminated in the holocost and christians are not on the frontlines of the Israeli/Palastinian conflict where these films can HELP reinforce the idea that human life is cheap.
Easterbrook is chastising jewish producers because HISTRY dictates that they should know better, but makes no reference to the fact that Jews worship money more or less than gentile movie producers.
"...there are plenty of Christian and other Hollywood executives who worship money above all else, promoting for profit the adulation of violence."
To be fair, Easterbrook doesn't seem to be singling out Jews. But... the message that "Jewish executives" should have a superior awareness of moral responsibility is, no matter how you look at it, at least mildly offensive.
Posted by: Bernard at October 15, 2003 07:38 AM"I think the anti-Semitic feeling comes from the juxtaposition of "Jews" and "worship money", i.e. Jews will sell their grandmother for profit."
That's the sticking point, I think. If the bit about worshipping money was removed, what we'd have is essentially the argument that Jewish movie industry people are to be especially criticized for movies where violence is glorified, on the grounds that, based on recent European history, they of all people should know better. Lovely example of Holocaust-cheapening, btw - but one gets wearily used to that, alas.
But Easterbrook either deliberately or accidentially implied an age-old stereotype with including 'money worship'. The former is pernicious; as for the latter... I think calling Easterbrook a natural-born Damned fool is a reasonable response. I also would be very interested to know why the Hell somebody at TNR didn't throw this back on Easterbrook's desk with big red circles around the offending text and "WTF?" scribbled in big, blocky red letters across the front.
Posted by: Moe Lane at October 15, 2003 07:53 AMMillions of Christians around the world have been slaughtered and enslaved by radical Islamists. Should they ‘know better’ than to make a parody of japanese anime and dump buckets of fake blood around a movie set?
Christians, Hindus, Democrats, Atheists, Communists, Anarchists, Republicans and Democrats are currently on the frontlines of this world wide jihad. We are on the frontlines of the world wide jihad. The Israeli/Palastinian conflict is just a small part of this conflict. Singling movies, ‘Zionists’ or Jews out for criticism is just playing along with the Islamist tactic of divide and conquer.
Movies are not the problem. Israel is not the problem. Jerry Falwell blamed terrorism on lesbianism and loose morals, Noam Chomsky blamed them on American foreign policy and United Fruit. United Fruit was not the problem. The extremists who finance and carry out these attacks are the problem.
Unfortunately, the extremists who finance and export worldwide terrorism are currently buying advertising space and influence in the New Republic.
I don’t know how much influence they have over content, but the magazine is definitely showing a downward trend. I’m not going to cancel my subscription yet because they still feature writers like Yossi Klein Halevi, but I think I’ll start my own TNR idiocy watch.
Posted by: mary at October 15, 2003 08:35 AMAs I read the comments, it is clear that some people don't see the problem with what Easterbrook wrote or actually endorse it. That is unfortunate since my experience is that no matter how much parsing of words or explaining is done, it tends not to matter ... either you see it or you don't.
I think Norm Geras put it correctly..."Shouldn't recent European history, to say nothing of much other history, cause everybody to have these second thoughts?" Why is a group singled out to be sensitive, as if a wrong is made more wrong by who committed it. Would it be any better to say that since the Holocaust was committed by non-jews (Catholics and Protestants), then all Christians should be more sensitive to promoting Hollywood violence. I mean some committed it so they all should be sensitive to anything that promotes violence. That is ridiculous. As human beings and what has transpired throughout the past century, we all should be sensitive. Bottom line, fucking leave the Jews alone...why are they being singled out? What does it matter what their background is? If Eisner and Weinstein were not jewish, would it be more understandable to Easterbrook that they distributed the movie? Someone in the comments section said that history dictates that jews should be more sensitive. All jews? Everyone of them? So two people distrbute a movie and their religion becomes an issue. For all we know, they weren't even raised jewish. Irrelevant... as jews, they should be castigated. Had they not been jewish, no big deal. Or at least their religion would not have been an issue or a point to discuss.
What anti-semtisim is about is just that. Beyond all the stereotypes (money-loving, yada yada yada) and other crap, it is the treatment of jews as something different for no other reason than that they are jewish. They are apart from all others and deserve (or should I say "history mandates"; why not start with Judas for that matter) unique inspection. They can't do things without their jewishness becoming a weighing factor in the analysis. Religion and collective history can't be binding or relevant to only one party.
Posted by: Peter at October 15, 2003 08:49 AMYour grasping at the same race straws that some of us accuse the NAACP and Al Sharpton of grabbing.
Posted by: TCallion at October 15, 2003 09:32 AMTotten -
I doubt Easterbrook will care about not being on your blog, and you could easily remove the link without melodramatizing it.
Tomas Kohl
I don't see much racism in that article, and I have read it twice to make sure.
However, it missed the point of Tarantino's (and other, similar) movies so much I had trouble suppressing a smile while reading it. I'll never understand how anyone can claim that normal people will go on a killing spree after watching Scream (or Kill Bill).
Tomas Kohl
Its not about whether they'll go on a killing spree, its a desensitization to violence. Kids watching Britney Spears dress like Strip Club dancer doesn't mean they're going to become strippers, but I don't want my 12 year old kid idolizing her.
As far as not seeing anti-semitism? what does that even mean now? that you are a neo nazi or far leftist freekazoid?
1) he clearly took a below the belt cheap shot to smite those execs
2) he clearly thought it out, as his presentencing construction indicates to me, it wasn't some sloppily hastily made mistake. PLEASE, LOL!!
3) he singles them out for extra ridicule and even refers to 'money grubbing' and 'the holocaust', so what else could he possibly do to smite them?
4) while this movie is (not only a shitty movie) exceedingly and disgustingly violent its hardly a new phenomenom? SO WHEERE IS THE LAST TIME HE WROTE about someone knowing better for being a Christian? I really doubt Weinstein or Eisner are observant Jews too. Here's a list for you to investigate and get back to us -
Godfather I II and III
Mad Max
Jeepers Creepers (take a look at that movie)
Scream I II and III
Please find any singular comments about "christians" glorifying violence there?
HERE ARE SOME IDEAS FOR EASTERBROOK OR A EUROPEAN EASTERBROOK'S NEW ENTRY THIS WEEK -
1) Past American Christian crimes against blacks, Japanese and other minority Americans, so American Christians should know better than to stir up violence for some money?
2) The "few educated Americans" should know better for the un-educated cultureless Chrisitian yahoo 'cowboy' majority?
3) Mel Gibson should know better considering the centuries old history or christian espoused anti-semitism heightened especially by "passion plays" especially in a time of rising anti-semtiism?
etc...........
one could endlessly mock the smiting ignorance and below the belt patronization, I'll leave it to others to get more creative.
Mike
Posted by: Mike at October 15, 2003 10:22 AM"...anti-semtisim is about...the treatment of jews as something different for no other reason than that they are jewish."
Um, Jews are different (or perhaps I should say, "distiguishable"). That's why they're called Jews, when the rest of us aren't. And most of the stereotypes have some basis in fact. To the extent that Jews are an ethnic group or tribe, they tend to have big noses. As a culture, they really do value material success as a criterion for individual respectability (which I think is an admirable cultural characteristic). Their history is exceptional, especially in that Jews were the main victims of the Holocaust; and Jews are exceptionally interested in their shared history.
Now, just because Jewish stereotypes have basis in fact doesn't mean they are fair and harmless; often the stereotypes are negative. But merely to recognize the distinctions is not racist or anti-Semitic, unless you have a problem with big noses, the pursuit of wealth, or victims of persecution.
As for all this "have a chat with your employee" and "really apologize" business, let's just break out the pitchforks and torches and go for an old-fashioned witch hunt while we're at it. To say, "Jews, of all people, should know better" is pretty weak, but it's not racist.
Posted by: dipnut at October 15, 2003 11:07 AMThe laws of supply and demand require that someone will make ridiculosly violent movies if there are enough warped people to waste the $7 to demand them. Anyone's religion doesn't enter into the equasion.
Does Easterbrook question the religion of the major shareholders of Disney, AOL Time Warner or any other media corporation? Do Christian or Jewish portfolio managers need to register their religious affiliation with Easterbrook so he can judge their motives?
They are out to make a buck supplying crap to those who demand it Greg. It's not that hard to figure out, really.
Matthew King
Posted by: Matthew King at October 15, 2003 11:09 AMJust flipping hilarious. Movie violence is almost always a personal expression of individual choices. The worst and most common violence is state expression of authoritarian dictates. The problem is not that movie violence is bad in itself, it is that movie violence empowers the individual instead of the state. Of course it is extremely difficult to create a movie that depicts genocidal policy, like Soviet agriculture methods, in an exciting way. Soviet agriculture is undoubtedly responsible for more death and misery than all the Rambo's and Vincent Vega's the world has ever known, but they do not get the screen time. Freddy Krueger's entire heap of cinema gore roughly equates to a slow week for Joseph Stalin or Pol Pot.
Posted by: Patrick Lasswell at October 15, 2003 11:23 AMTo those who don't see anti-Semitism in the article,
Try reading the "money" quote again:
Yes, there are plenty of Christian and other Hollywood executives who worship money above all else, promoting for profit the adulation of violence. Does that make it right for Jewish executives to worship money above all else, by promoting for profit the adulation of violence?
He flat-out says Jewish executives worship money above all else. Less disgusting than saying we use the blood of Christian children to bake our matzoh, I grant you, but pretty straightforward anti-Semitism nonetheless.
And I don't think I'm over-sensitive about anti-Semitism. I wasn't even bothered by the high school band parading the Nazi flag.
Posted by: Oberon at October 15, 2003 12:30 PMOne good thing about blogs is that there are no external censors.
One bad thing about blogs is that there are no internal censors.
Posted by: vanderleun at October 15, 2003 12:43 PMTO: Oberon, (Obe 1 Cannobe)
My take is he utilized a below the belt smite to vent his anger at this movie, and finding movie execs producing it who are Jewish provided him perfect fodder to smite. The fact that he prefaced it by saying "sure there are many Christian execs" shows he was clearly thinking when he wrote it and tried to somewhat minimize or disguise for lack of a better word his smite. Thus, he knew what he was doing, it was a deliberate thought out sentence not a fervent petulent rant, as some here try to say.
NOW TO MY FAVORITE POST FROM DIPNUT -
about the treatment of jews as something different for no other reason than that they are jewish."
Um, Jews are different (or perhaps I should say, "distiguishable"). That's why they're called Jews, when the rest of us aren't.
Would then Hindus or Buddhists be different as well and thus called Hindus or Buddhists? As thus blacks are called African American or whatever is now pc while whites are called whites? Or does just "jew" denote being different?
And most of the stereotypes have some basis in fact. To the extent that Jews are an ethnic group or tribe, they tend to have big noses.
Yes as do Italians as well. And you know what they say about big noses and big feet? Is that true as well? Oh, and you forgot in my case and my brother's case, pretty dam handsome as well?
As a culture, they really do value material success as a criterion for individual respectability (which I think is an admirable cultural characteristic).
LMAO!! I think this is his give away. Its the kind of patronization you see from that fascist neo nazi who died, Pierce. Its funny because many Jews are behind the ideas of Marxism which is theoretically opposed to capitalism and materialness etc.. (Marx, Trotsky etc.. won't name modern Jewish Marxist, whom I detest) Further, I'm no Torahnical scholar, but the entire Torah is seeped with socialist and collectivist good, and giving charity without recognition being one of the highest mitzvahs. Further, land is supposed to be set aside for the poorest among you. WHATEVER.......
Their history is exceptional, especially in that Jews were the main victims of the Holocaust; and Jews are exceptionally interested in their shared history.
AGAIN JUST PATRONIZATION OF THE WORST KIND.
Now, just because Jewish stereotypes have basis in fact doesn't mean they are fair and harmless; often the stereotypes are negative. But merely to recognize the distinctions is not racist or anti-Semitic, unless you have a problem with big noses, the pursuit of wealth, or victims of persecution.</b
from "unless" forward is just classic backhanding and patronizing. I don't have a problem with recognizing differnces without pc monitors coming to get you. I still call black people, black people. I grew up with puerto ricans, jews, irish, italian, and blacks and modern pcness is nauseating, but that doesn't mean you're not so full of shit, we need a shovel to clean the smell out of here right about now.
As for all this "have a chat with your employee" and "really apologize" business, let's just break out the pitchforks and torches and go for an old-fashioned witch hunt while we're at it. To say, "Jews, of all people, should know better" is pretty weak, but it's not racist.
TO SAY IT IS IGNORANCE AT ITS BEST more likely a WEAKLY DISGUISED ATTEMPT TO SMITE and AT WORST VENTING OF PREJUDICE OR HATRED (use any word you like)
I equate it to perhaps calling your wife a "blankety blank blank blank" in the heat of an argument perhaps? That's giving the author the benefit of the doubt in my opinion. I see careful deliberate wording there showing forethought, and worthy in a NON pc world, like the schoolyard, of a hard BITCH SLAP.
Posted by: Mike at October 15, 2003 02:04 PMMike,
Thank you. My point, which is that the reaction to Easterbrook's piece is simply hysterical, is now amply validated. I mean, wow: you lumped me in with a white-supremacist. This is a very special moment for me...
I'm sure you'll love my website today.
The rest of you, save your outrage for actual anti-Semitism, of which there is plenty. This simply ain't it.
Posted by: dipnut at October 15, 2003 03:03 PMWhat's wrong with being different, Mike? Yes, Hindus and Buddhists would be "different" too -- in at least the matter of their religion if nothing else. But -- newsflash! -- being different is not a bad thing. My, everyone's an in-duh-vidual until they think they hear someone saying "Ew, he's different. How icky."
And in any case, why did no one pick up the possibly more-important slur against these so-called Jewish Hollywood executives, against their faith? If they do actually practice their religion, I assume that they worship God, not money. If they worship money, they they aren't Jewish. (Or Christian, or anything other religion whose concept of the deity is something other than material.)
My conclusion is that Easterbrook doesn't like Tarantino, or violent movies, or at least Tarantino's annoyingly self-referentially smirking fountain's-o'-fake-blood spattercore, and decided to take a cheap shot. And maybe he lost track of what he was getting into, so intent was he on giving it to that little Quentin bastard, that "money-grubbing-Jewish-Hollywood-movie-kingpins" rose up out of the reptile part of his brain. I doubt he meant to be consciously anti-Semitic. He deserves all the mocking he gets, though, for relying on cliché when he's supposed to be some big PaidWriter™ deal.
Posted by: Andrea Harris at October 15, 2003 05:15 PMDIPNUT
Thank you. My point, which is that the reaction to Easterbrook's piece is simply hysterical, is now amply validated. I mean, wow: you lumped me in with a white-supremacist. This is a very special moment for me...
Think what you like, I'm personally not hysterical at all and think I called it likely right on the money. You can read what I wrote or stew in your own self-righteousness, whichever you prefer.
I'm sure you'll love my website today. The rest of you, save your outrage for actual anti-Semitism, of which there is plenty. This simply ain't it.
I'm sure 'everyone' appreciates your heads up.
Posted by: Mike at October 16, 2003 08:04 AMAndrea Harris
What's wrong with being different, Mike? Yes, Hindus and Buddhists would be "different" too -- in at least the matter of their religion if nothing else. But -- newsflash! -- being different is not a bad thing.
Off the topic but why would they be different from an aspect of religion but "if nothing else". What's your point that Jews are different though on both accounts? And if so is that due to the small numbers of Jews?
And in any case, why did no one pick up the possibly more-important slur against these so-called Jewish Hollywood executives, against their faith? If they do actually practice their religion, I assume that they worship God, not money. If they worship money, they they aren't Jewish. (Or Christian, or anything other religion whose concept of the deity is something other than material.)
My conclusion is that Easterbrook doesn't like Tarantino, or violent movies, or at least Tarantino's annoyingly self-referentially smirking fountain's-o'-fake-blood spattercore, and decided to take a cheap shot. And maybe he lost track of what he was getting into,
so intent was he on giving it to that little Quentin bastard, that "money-grubbing-Jewish-Hollywood-movie-kingpins" rose up out of the reptile part of his brain. I doubt he meant to be consciously anti-Semitic. He deserves all the mocking he gets, though, for relying on cliché when he's supposed to be some big PaidWriter™ deal.
I somewhat agree with you here. He went dirty consciously due to his frustration. I'm not enraeged like I said, I think he just deserves a good old fashioned "bitch slap" and then end of story, but anyone trying to state it was just an unconscious sloppy or hastily done thing to excuse it is full of shit if they read his careful construction there.
Posted by: Mike at October 16, 2003 08:11 AMhttp://karmic_inquisition.blogspot.com/2003_10_12_karmic_inquisition_archive.html#106625491056424547
KARMIC INQUISITION SUMS IT UP PRETTY WELL
Nothing much to say.
I don't think I can say much about Easterbrook's racist garbage that he posted at TNR.
Though I'd like to say that I am stunned, I am not.
Somehow the holocaust has been turned into an event in history that careless minds find as instructive for Jews when discussing Jewish morality. As if all Jews subscribe to the same morality. As if they all thought and acted with a uniformity that non-Jews lack (the only time they have acted with uniformity in "recent European history" was in their boarding of trains). When one considers this, one realizes that such thinking can be distilled to ' they deserved it' -for one has already lumped all Jews into a moral sphere which allows one to reconstruct the holocaust as irony - intending to reveal a horrific moral flaw in all Jews.
What utter bull shit. A fraud that presents itself as insight to narrow, hate-opportune minds - a moral sphere that can be cogently constructed and uniformly condemned.
Posted by: Mike at October 16, 2003 10:01 AM...the holocaust has been turned into an event in history that careless minds find as instructive for Jews when discussing Jewish morality.
And this carelessness is equivalent with whacking off to Mein Kampf, or saying Jews kill Arab children and eat their blood?
I see careful deliberate wording there...
Well, which is it? Lazy-minded projection or crafty, diabolical slur?
I say Easterbrook's argument is weak precisely because the history of the Holocaust should be instructive to all people, not just Jews. But let's face it: Jews feel a little differently about the Holocaust than the rest of us. The lessons are the same, but the emotions are more raw and personal.
Andrea's probably right: Easterbrook deliberately targeted a sore spot with that Holocaust reference. But that's not even on the same conceptual continent as anti-Semitism.
...such thinking can be distilled to "they deserved it" -for one has already lumped all Jews into a moral sphere which allows one to reconstruct the holocaust as irony - intending to reveal a horrific moral flaw in all Jews.
What utter bull shit.
You, or me?
Really, Mike, if you're willing to work this hard at it, you can find anti-Semitism in the Nabisco logo, or in the void of outer space for that matter. It seems to me that to qualify as an anti-Semite you have to, you know, dislike Jews as such.
Posted by: dipnut at October 16, 2003 11:15 AM"It" is everywhere. That would be paranoia.
This just proves that the blogosphere is one large fruitcake.
Let's take a look at the current crop of Democratic candidates:
1. One proud, self-identified practicing Jew
2. One ethnic half-Jew four star general who makes a point of telling everyone his ethnicity
3. One ethnic half-Jew who does the same
4. Frontrunner is Protestant with Jewish wife & identified Jewish kids
5. Lefty longshot (Kucinich) has Jewish gal pal and occasionally worships at a Conservative synagogue & became a kosher vegan to please her...
...that's it, I am packing my bags and leaving for an Israeli settlement tomorrow.
Not.
As a political force, anti-Semitism is as dead as a doornail in the US.
And oh yeah, Easterbrook was right. Hollywood produces violent garbage, and Jewish executives (60% of Hollywood executives are Jewish, an extraordinary overrepresentation that you cannot refer to in polite company, so there, I said it) should be especially attuned to the implications of desensitizing people to violent imagery.
The charge of anti-Semitism against Easterbrook is bogus. He may have been clumsy, but he wasn't anti-Semitic.
Posted by: Diana at October 16, 2003 01:47 PMPS Yo dipnut, I have a very small nose. Jews are an ethnic mix. But many Jews do "look Jewish" which may be a function of culture as much as genes.
Posted by: Diana at October 16, 2003 01:49 PMDip (shit)
sorry couldn't help myself.
That post was from Karmis Inquisition not me. That's why there was a link there. That's what those internet addresses thingies do, in case you didn't know.
Further, telling anyone such as a black, you should know better than act that way because of this or that, etc... is the worst form of latent patronizing prejudice. I'd rather the person who's a blatant bigot or an ignorant bigot, like Archie Bunker, than that shit.
As far as your rant, like I said. I don't give a shit which category this guy falls into. He went below the belt and premiditatedly did it in my opinion. If he's an ok guy that's fine, but he still deserves a schoolyard bitch slap and then move on. You can classify it anyway you like, that's my summation of it. And thanks for you long detailed analysis as well, its much appreciated.
Mike
Posted by: Mike at October 16, 2003 03:46 PMBY THE WAY HERE'S A GREAT LINK ON THE CUBBIES almooooost making the series.
http://www.pejmanesque.com/archives/004663.html
Posted by: Mike at October 16, 2003 03:57 PMMichael: I like your take on this. At first, I agreed with Roger, then after reading other comments and rereading Easterbrook's I felt they were not anti-semitic, but merely (badly) making a point about violence in movies.
Upon further reflection, the choice of words, the singling out of Jewish movie execs, and the playing to Jewish sterotypes (love of money above all else) makes me wonder. I too would like to see his apology.
Like Rush Limbaugh recently, he should have known better.
Posted by: tallan at October 17, 2003 02:06 AMMike: when quoting someone you really should use quotation marks (" "), or use blockquoting. Your rebuttals are difficult to read without some sort of demarcation. Also, calling people names isn't really much of an argument.
Anyway, I'd like to suggest that the "money-grubbing Jewish Hollywood executive" is a stereotype along the lines of "interfering mother-in-law" or "Italian mafia don" -- unpleasant, and an indicator of intellectual laziness more than anything, but not necessarily meaning the person hates Jews, older women, or Italians. Now if Easterbrook continues to use this stereotype, interjecting it into all sorts of subjects, then we can say he has a problem.
As for the idea that holding a certain ethnic group to a higher standard being patronizing, I do agree with that to a certain extent. I don't think it means "anti-Semitism" when it's directed at Jews though, any more than it is racist when it directed at African-Americans to suggest that they be more sensitive to the plight of the oppressed of the world because of their past history. But it is also intellectual laziness -- all human beings should be concerned about oppression and other societal ills, regardless of ethnic background or history.
Posted by: Andrea Harris at October 17, 2003 02:38 AMTHIS THING IS GETTING BEATEN LIKE A DRUM SO HERE'S MY LAST REPLY WITH BOLDS AND ITALICS HOPEFULLY PROPERLY UTILIZED -
What's blockquoting by the way? I only know how to use bold and italic?
Andrea Harris
Also, calling people names isn't really much of an argument.
I didn't use any names at all, maybe you should read my reply, unless kidding about dip shit is a slight, in that case - lighten the f up.
Anyway, I'd like to suggest that the "money-grubbing Jewish Hollywood executive" is a stereotype along the lines of "interfering mother-in-law" or "Italian mafia don" -- unpleasant, and an indicator of intellectual laziness more than anything, but not necessarily meaning the person hates Jews, older women, or Italians.
More nauseating pc bullcrap (is that too descriptive for you?). Kind of like the pc job the LA Times and AP did on the Malaysian wacko today.
Now if Easterbrook continues to use this stereotype, interjecting it into all sorts of subjects, then we can say he has a problem.
ONE MORE TIME FOR YOU I DO ------- NOT ----- CARE ------- whether or not he """" has a """problem"""""? You go ahead and debate that for another 10 weeks. The guy acted like a 'scum bag' (descriptive again for you) and he needs a good punch in the face. After that you and your flock can try and figure out """why""" he did it and what this means in a grand cosmic sense.
As for the idea that holding a certain ethnic group to a higher standard being patronizing, I do agree with that to a certain extent. I don't think it means "anti-Semitism" when it's directed at Jews though, any more than it is racist when it directed at African-Americans to suggest that they be more sensitive to the plight of the oppressed of the world because of their past history.
That's beautiful, let me get out my shovel to wade through the pc pile......
But it is also intellectual laziness -- all human beings should be concerned about oppression and other societal ills, regardless of ethnic background or history.
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Mike,
Some advice. First, don't yell at people. ALL CAPS reads like yelling.
Second. A blockquote looks like this.
yadda yadda yadda
To set off text this way put the word "blockquote" inside html brackets, and then close it with the backslash. /
I would show you exactly what it looks like, but it would get rendered as html code and become invisible.
You know how to make italics and boldface. Just use "blockquote" in place of the "i" and the "b".
Posted by: Michael J. Totten at October 17, 2003 01:15 PMYes, Mike, "dipshit" is a slight. As to the rest of your shrieking screed, yawn.
Posted by: Andrea Harris at October 18, 2003 11:26 AMI just re-read the entire apology this time and not just parts. The guy put a lot of thought into it at least and effort those many days later.
I don't understand why he just couldn't say hey what I did was extremely stupid and out of some anger for the disgusting movie, (which it is by the way) and tried to hit back at Disney anyway I could and came off like a prejudice race baiter in the process, though I still am angry as a moral person at Eisner and Weinstein for distributing this movie.
Mike
PS He shouldn't have been fired but as Instapundit linked I think it was Disney's way of sticking it to him for criticizing their movie.
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