September 30, 2003

Rosh Hashana Faux Pas

Check out the first sentence of this piece:

A Texas high school has apologized after the school band waved a Nazi flag during a performance on Friday, the start of the Jewish New Year holiday of Rosh Hashana.
The school band did this. Not a skinhead punk, the school band.

I’m sorry if I’m being Politically Correct, but this is too much.

DURING A HALF-TIME show, a student from Paris High School went running across the field waving a Nazi flag.

At the time, the Blue Blazes band was playing the composition by Franz Joseph Haydn that eventually became known as ”Deutschland Uber Alles."

Here’s why:
Grissom said it was part of a show entitled “Visions of World War Two,” in which the flags and music were intended to represent the warring nations.
All right, fine, that’s reasonable enough. It’s not anti-Semitism, and it certainly isn’t pro-Nazism. But still. Come on. In the past two years anti-Semitic invective and violence have spiked, and so has the general public’s tolerance for it. It’s an open wound again, and the Texas school poked it. A Nazi flag on Rosh Hashana…jeez.

At a time of hypersensitivity to the tiniest little “feelings” affront, the negative reaction to something as blatant as this shouldn't be a surprise.

Posted by Michael J. Totten at September 30, 2003 05:04 PM
Comments

What it is, is stunningly, mind-blowingly stupid. Not one but several people had to agree that this was going to be a good idea. I hope all of those people live within the confines of the same little town for the rest of their lives, where the potential harm done by their utter lack of judgement will be limited.

Posted by: Christopher Luebcke at September 30, 2003 05:16 PM

Still, a case that proves the adage "never attribute to malice what can be simply explained by incompetence or stupidity." Or, in this case, both...

Posted by: Chris Lawrence at September 30, 2003 05:18 PM

To a degree, it doesn't surprise me. Being a product of Texas schools, I can say that high school bands in Texas have hit a level of competitiveness rivaled only by, well, high school football in Texas.

There's also a lot of artsy/fartsy stuff that has crept in along the way. Not unlike artists who smoke illicit substances and come up with "surrealism" in some vacuum of a studio that manages to offend anybody with semi-grounded sensibilities, it looks like some band director pushed that envelope a bit too hard.

And in response to Christopher: understand that band directors generally behave as utter dictators. What they say goes; you cross him at your peril. If anybody paused to wonder if waving a Nazi flag during a show was really the brightest idea, he/she was almost certainly too cowed to say a word.

Posted by: Ryan at September 30, 2003 05:24 PM

Point taken. Somehow I managed in my childhood to escape both band and Texas.

Posted by: Christopher Luebcke at September 30, 2003 05:30 PM

Michael, usually I agree with you but you've gone wacky on this one.

I'm 23 and I haven't been away long from the High School Band scene here in Texas. In my senior year, my band was chosen to represent five states in the Rose Bowl Parade.

My sophomore year, my band did a Civil War Theme. Yes, the Confederate Battle Flag was used as part of the show. No one had any problems with this.

(Also remember that flags are a big factor of ALL marching shows. This is not uncommon.)

Now I am in theater. When there is a TV show or play dealing with Nazism, suprise surprise, the Nazi symbol and the Nazi flag are shown.

Michael, you don't seem to have problem when the Nazi flag is used in its proper context in a theater aspect (when done by a school!) so why are you crying about it being used in another entertainment venue?

I suppose the themed "War of 1812"'s cannons might startle the elderly so, with hypersensitivity, we ought to stop all songs of War of 1812s.

This is silly. By your logic, you ought to apologize to 9/11 and terrorist victims for you putting pictures of terrorists or the WTC pictures up.

How is the Nazi flag EVIL when it is used in its correct historical context? I suppose all museums and WW2 movies must be shut down on Jewish holidays now.

------------------

But knowing that it isn't anti-semitic and isn't pro-nazism, such venues should be stopped because of what it might 'incite'!?

So you view people as clay to be shaped entirely by media, that people have no motor of their own, no mind, no brain, no individual sense, so that if they see a Nazi flag they just immediately lose all coherence and go, "Heil Hitler!"?

You've lost me, Totten.

Posted by: Jonathan at September 30, 2003 06:15 PM

I tend to agree that it is offensive, but...

It is highly unlikely that anyone in Paris, Texas knew it was Rosh Hashana, it is not exactly an area that has a large Jewish population, or any for that matter. It was in poor taste but very doubtful that it was intended to insult anyone.

Posted by: Jamie at September 30, 2003 06:42 PM

Jonathan, you're full of shit.

Jamie, your point about it being Rosh Hashonah is perhaps a fair one.
I think Michael first thought was that because it was the New Year as is often the case with Syanagogues being defaced with swastikas etc..., he thought that might have been an impetus behind this. Either way, the fact it was Rosh Hashonah can be completely left aside.

There is no reason for a high school band to be flying around with Nazi flags to a marching band song to represent WWII. That is complete and utter bullshit, that you may try and justify using SUPER PARSE logic to justify. However, there was nothing redemptive about the Nazi ideology whatsoever. It stood for racism, ethnic purity, mass murder of millions of unpure, and fascist ideology at its worst. It represented pure and unadulterated evil.

This is taught in history class and shown in telvision and movies. However, there is no need for it to paraded out for so called "entertainment value" by a high school marching band.

Your horseshit logic is just bullshit, and you, I and everyone reading it know it is.

Mike

PS Please save it.

Posted by: Mike at September 30, 2003 07:04 PM

I'm wondering if a large dose of historical ignorance was a contributing factor. I shudder to think just how many high school teachers and students would know what the Nazi flag represented other than "it was the German flag in WW2."

This does not excuse the incident, nor am I rationalizing it. It was an incredible display of stupidity.

Tim

Posted by: Tim at September 30, 2003 07:16 PM

A Texas high school has apologized after the school band waved a Nazi flag during a performance on Friday, the start of the Jewish New Year holiday of Rosh Hashana.

MICHAEL
The school band did this. Not a skinhead punk, the school band.
I’m sorry if I’m being Politically Correct, but this is too much.

MY REPLY
You're sorry? for what? this is unfucking believeable! There is no need for a high school marching band to be playing German Hymns and marching around with Swastikas! NONE. Its akin to high school kids marching around with Sheets over their Heads while carrying ROPE NOOSES to commemorate the Civil War. GIVE ME A FUCKING BREAK!

There was N O simple misunderstanding here, someone was trying and wanting to inflict hateful damage, PLAIN and SIMPLE. There are those who scream anti-semitism too much, (though in today's world environment I don't know how appropos this is now) but from someone whose never worried about it and grew up with red necks, blacks, latinos, whites, indians, jews and christians of all stripes this is INSANE!

Further, you never said whether or not there were even "other flags" being carried to represent WWII. Either way it doesn't freeking matter! Ask some WWII vets, (let's forget the Jews since defending them would be at the least UN pc) how the F they feel about the parading of the Nazi flag!!

Second, the fact they did it on Rosh Hashonah is immaterial Michael and irrelevant to the point that it doesn't matter when the F they would choose to do it.
Further, Jonathan patronizing me and you as weak paranoid Jews telling us, "Come on is carrying the flag going to result in people hailing "heil Hitler"?
No but how about I carry around a flag of someone who murders your fucking family, grandparents or parents intentionally let's say for being texas hicks?, and ask you, "Come on what's going to happen? are people going to want to kill the rest of your family as well?" its just a picture and a flag dude, "Wey're just having fun and commemorating an event that took place in the hometown back in 03?" GET OVER IT.

Mike

Posted by: Mike at September 30, 2003 07:17 PM

Oh and feel free to come back at me with some more parsed bullshit.
Eagerly awaiting your moonbat response.

Mike

Posted by: Mike at September 30, 2003 07:23 PM

Hi Mike,

You might want to stop cussing. It's hard to take someone seriously when they cuss throughout their posts.

With that said...

I don't think you understand how marching bands work. The marching band is, in spirit, basically a splinter of the military band. So it is not surprising that marching bands usually do a military theme.

For an example, I said my own band did a Civil War theme. It featured the Confederate Battle Flag. In fact, we even did POSES! We pretended to stab each other, shoot each other, with our instruments. It was cool!

Now, one may ask, why does it have to have flags? Well, because marching bands feature a COLOR GUARD that do nothing but deal with flags. So when a band does a theme, the flags match the theme.

Also, keep in mind that marching bands spend a lot of time practicing. The school knew what the theme of the show would be. The administrators knew what the theme would be. It is not this springs from a single second urge.

Mike, do you honestly believe that a band director would say, "I am going to risk my job and offend Jews and everyone else. I will do this by flying a Nazi flag in football half-time (which hardly anyone watches anyway). THAT will teach them."?

I watched the video of this on the news. The show seemed pretty boring (then again, I'm spoiled. The nation's best bands come from my local area.) How anyone can say that the band's performance was trying to provoke obvously doesn't understand a marching band performance. Unless you know what you're looking at, they are very boring.

But, let us suppose you are right. Let us say that using the Nazi flag in a historical themed performance is wrong, insensitive (to what?), and evil.

They also showed an English flag. This obviously infuriated the Irish people for the persecution england did to them. I mean, the INSENSITIVITY and HATRED of using an ENGLISH FLAG would upset the Irish.

They also showed a French Flag. This obviously infuriated current military forces with France's backstabbing. I mean, the INSENSITIVITY and HATRED of using the French flag! I mean, come on, what were they thinking!?

They also showed the American flag. This obviously infuriated Native Americans. I mean, how can we be so INSENSITIVE? Oh, have they lost their mind!

Now what do the above examples show you? It shows that the above people are taking a PART of the performance (one of the flags) out of their entire context. The flags were used in a historical context of WWII in a tribute to the military. However, in the examples above, the people were SO STUPID and SO DEVOID OF LIFE that they turned a simple easy going football halftime into a political event.

These people see everything through a political lens. They are the problem, not the flags. The flags were used in a civil, historical, and proper theme.

I know this band put a lot of work into their performance. I feel sorry that their result will not be on their marching drill, their music, but on some idiots (who see everything politically) cannot enjoy a simple football half-time show. Their hard work was ruined by a handful of antigones who have to politicize everything, even a historicailly themed half-time show.

These people need to get a life.

Posted by: Jonathan at September 30, 2003 08:54 PM

http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/nation/wire/sns-ap-band-nazi-flag,0,5422665.story?coll=sns-ap-nation-headlines

Check out the link and check out the very bottom for this quote,

"An announcement over loudspeakers before the performance explained the school was trying to do a 'historical, accurate depiction of the event.'"

It is the equivalent of going to a play about WWII and a disclaimer of, "There will be Nazi symbols used within the historical theme of this play" being said at the beginning and people STILL protesting!

These 'protestors' are quacks, and are the problem. Shessh, get a life!

Remember the practice for the mock play in Shakespeare's Midsummer Night's Dream with Bottom wanting a disclaimer that they are not lions, that no one is dying, and so on? This is the same thing.

The disclaimer alone is absurd. (What did some people think? That people would see the Nazi flag on a football field and go, "No! The Nazis are back! They have infiltrated a High School Marching band and have conquered the football field! WWII never ended! Run!"?)

And people protesting AFTER a disclaimer just takes the cake! Not only are they too stupid to enjoy a half-time show, they are too stupid to listen to a disclaimer.

In Shakespeare's time, puritans kept trying to shut down the theaters because they thought the theater would cause uprisings and 'affect people' with insidious ideas.

Who are today's puritans making that same argument?

Today's Left.

Posted by: Jonathan at September 30, 2003 10:04 PM

Sigh!

I remember when there was outrage at the Cal State Humbolt Lumberjack Marching Band Making the shape of a phalus and marching into the other teams goal posts, marching out again, marching back in, and out. well you get the idea.

The idea for the idiotic and possiblly hatefull display from the Texas High School may have come from ignorance, stupidity, insensitivity or anti-semitisim. None of these are exactly rare comodities in Texas.

Take me back to Humbolt

Matthew King

Posted by: Matthew King at September 30, 2003 10:35 PM

Seems just like Texas-size ignorance and jejeune naivete to me, not racism. Plus, I've found that with the younger set, the term "Nazi" has pretty much lost its meaning. Increasingly, I hear it used just to mean an authoritarian person.
I'm sure to these kids the period 1939-45 is indeed just as ancient as the War of 1812. Who knows? next, they might put on a historical pageant with the North Vietnamese flag. In a few years, maybe even the Baath Party flag.

Posted by: Mike Reynolds at September 30, 2003 10:49 PM

I have an idea: let's burn every copy of Mel Brooks' THE PRODUCERS because of the tasteless disply of Nazi regalia during the 'Springtime for Hitler' number. And why stop there? Let's globally eliminate ALL mention of or reference to that sick and execrable regime, including the Holocaust Museum. Then maybe, having willfully and forcefully flensed a vile and vomitous chapter of our own global history from our collective consciousness, we might be self-condemned to repeat it.
It is dangerous for those posessing backs if, turning them to the devil, they also succeed in erasing all memory of his presence back there.

Posted by: Salamantis at September 30, 2003 10:56 PM

Mike,

Kind of important point, the KKK came about after the Civil War and is entirely an artifact of the post-war era. Please keep that in perspective. The KKK is a product of Nathan Bedford Forrest, not Robert E. Lee. If you are unable to distinguish between the character of those two Confederate officers, you should probably refrain from discussing the Civil War.

Publicly parading the Nazi flag is offensive in any circumstance. Although I support the right of people to engage in artistic expression, the bounds of that expression are of necessity more circumspect when its instruments are minor children. Instructing a minor child to parade the Nazi flag in order to achieve your artistic expression is a profound lapse in judgement the raises serious questions about the fitness of the educator to exercise the public trust. If the band leader had instructed the cheerleaders to remove their clothing and parade in shackles in order to fulfil his artistic expression, we would not be having this discussion.

Posted by: Patrick Lasswell at September 30, 2003 10:57 PM

On the facts presented, I don't see that this is offensive or even in poor taste. Were the Nazis glorified here? Was it presented as a moral equivalence sort of thing?

Doesn't sound like it in Paris, Texas. It sounds more like the Nazi flag was used to depict a specific evil, presumably symbolizing a dark and foreboding era. I assume the Marines march in at the end waving Old Glory to save the day. If there's a problem, these facts don't come close to describing it and certainly don't justify, without more, the hysterical reaction.

Posted by: Gabriel Gonzalez at October 1, 2003 02:44 AM

Being from the area, I can tell you that Hillcrest HS has a large Jewish community around it. I went to a nearby HS and in those unPC days of the 70's we called Hillcrest HS "Hillel High". So I am not surprised that there was a lot of shock in the stands when the Nazi banner was run across the field.

FWIW

Posted by: Steve at October 1, 2003 07:21 AM

Haha, Salamantis.

Patrick,

"Instructing a minor child to parade the Nazi flag in order to achieve your artistic expression is a profound lapse in judgement the raises serious questions about the fitness of the educator to exercise the public trust."

What does this sentence mean? There is no content in it. What is the profound lapse in judgement?

Public trust!? This is the half-time of a football game! The purpose of a band director is to direct marching bands, not represent some Rouseau-ish ideal. See, you guys cannot even enjoy a football game! You must politicize it.

"If the band leader had instructed the cheerleaders to remove their clothing and parade in shackles in order to fulfil his artistic expression, we would not be having this discussion."

This is a Strawman Argument. Let me help you with it. The band director has no influence over the cheerleaders. He might be able to influence the Brigade (since the band plays the music for the Brigade).

Obviously, no one is going to be nude. But the shackles could work and I've seen similiar marching band shows that features the theme of imprisonment.

Even if the people in the stands were 100% Jew, this is still overkill. WWII was, what, FIFTY years ago? Just because a few people are stupid and do not know what they are watching doesn't mean they have to enforce their ignorance and ruin a performance and hundreds of student's hard work.

Here, look at this quote from another newstory:

"A week earlier at Paris High’s homecoming game against Athens, the same show was performed, complete with two seven-second scenes in which the Nazi flag was prominently waved, this time by a black band member. Paris fans, however, applauded the show, which had to be performed after the game because halftime homecoming queen crowning ceremonies ran long."

Playing afterwards is common in High School bands on Homecoming Games.

Now, who stays AFTER the game just to watch the band?

Well, it is people who understand and enjoy marching band performances, right?

The same exact performance was done. People cheered the band's performance because everyone knew that it was a performance.

So doesn't it make sense that the FEW people 'outraged' over the flag do not understand Marching Bands or even HOW to enjoy their performances?

So, beyond doubt, these FEW that are 'outraged' are quacks and kooks.

Now why should we alter policy based on kooks?

Read the last sentence two more times.

What is even worse is I hear several of you bashiing Texas and Texans in a very generalized way.

How can anyone take someone preaching 'sensitivity' SERIOUSLY when, in the next breath, they cuss and stereotype an entire state?

Read that last question three times.

You guys find people so weak, so incapable of freedom, that all performances dealing with even the slightest controversial element, must be banned.

I think my Puritan analogy was right on.

Posted by: Jonathan at October 1, 2003 08:30 AM

Brings back memories of my high school days (no, not of nazi flags).

Some of my literature teachers (who were also involved with the drama club) were of the opinion that as long as it was associated with 'art' it was ok.

They had limited historical perspective and never seconded guessed themselves. Sounds like the same thing here...

Posted by: Thomas at October 1, 2003 08:58 AM

I grew up close to Paris and I didn't meet an actual Jewish person till age 25. These rural schools are hardly the hotbeds of "ignorance, stupidity, insensitivity or anti-semitisim" that above commentor makes them out to be...and I am so sick of generalized Texas-bashing! There are no more bigots per-capita there than any other mainly rural state...(like Utah- that's aimed at you Christopher Luebcke!)
So knock it off.

Posted by: Amy from Texas at October 1, 2003 10:06 AM

Please, children--breathe, long and slow...

Okay. I think there's one thing that we're missing here: unless I'm mistaken, none of us has actually seen the marching show in question.

So we aren't seeing the incident in context.

As I mentioned above, lots of symbolism and artsy stuff has crept into marching bands these days. A lot of it has been brazenly copied/stolen from drum corps (for some examples, see http://www.dci.org).

If the kids broke out the Nazi flag and proceeded to trample it, would we think that was insensitive to Jews? Hardly. We would recognize it for what it was: a symbol of the evisceration of Nazi Germany along with all its totalitarian evils.

If it was, however, a rendition of "Springtime for Hitler", it might (and given the current rise of anti-Semitism, I do stress might) correctly be viewed as comedy.

If, however, the front color guard all had identical Nazi flags and were doing precise choreography as the band is playing a piece from Wagner, then of course we could interpret the show as a celebration of Nazi culture and say the scene deserves outrage.

Given the overwhelmingly negative response, however, it's clear the show is seen as glorifying anti-Semitism, so all that is a moot point. But I bring this up to illustrate that context really is important. I defy anybody with a pulse to keep from dying of laughter at watching the aforementioned "Springtime for Hitler" scene from The Producers. It's as politically incorrect as can be (as is the whole movie/musical), but it's bloody hilarious.

But imagine if that movie had been released in, say, the early 1950s instead of 1968. I daresay the movie would go down in infamy, and rightly so. The wounds from WWII were still very fresh. It took some time and distance for the demons of WWII to morph into comic footballs.

And so it is right now with Judaism. Anything touching it just isn't a topic right now for artistic entertainment. Had this show concept been tried out c. 1998-2000, I think it wouldn't have garnered the negative reaction it has.

As for me, though...I think it's time to steal a page from Jay Leno's playbook and write a complete stage show for the bin Laden Singers. It should find an audience in a few years. ;)

Posted by: Ryan at October 1, 2003 11:07 AM

Another conversation on this same topic. I'll
post a link to this site there, as well.

http://landv.net/IC/index.php?act=ST&f=5&t=617&hl=&s=8309e4b20282f057ef3a5375ae7c56af

Posted by: alanH at October 1, 2003 01:42 PM

Jonathan Wrote
I don't think you understand how marching bands work. The marching band is, in spirit, basically a splinter of the military band. So it is not surprising that marching bands usually do a military theme.

For an example, I said my own band did a Civil War theme. It featured the Confederate Battle Flag. In fact, we even did POSES! We pretended to stab each other, shoot each other, with our instruments. It was cool!

GEE Thanks for the high school marching band lesson. :-))) I played 5 years of high school band, 1 year of marching band and even made all County 2 years. :-))) I and I am sure everyone else here never the less very much appreciates your extremely enlightening tutorial. :-))))

Ya know if for added effect (to liven up the show since apparently you say it was boring) this Texas marching band with the Nazi Flag in toe could have perhaps all worn swastikas on their arms, carried wips on their sides, have the Conductor dress as Hitler, and if any of the crowd didn’t give the Nazi salute they could have wipped and punched them? MAN THAT WOULD BE COOL HUH!! "Hey little Johnny, see now you’re learning history and tonight maybe I’ll even buy you some Nazi memorablilia and some cool swastikas for your room."

And...

If you really want to go all out you could have some band members wear Yellow Stars on their arms and have them herded into mock trains or (since a mock train is asking a lot of a meager High School Band) have a few dress as elderly lie face down on the ground and be shot in the head. MAN NOW THAT WOULD BE REALLY COOL SHIT EHH?

Jonathan Further Wrote
Now, one may ask, why does it have to have flags?

Gee, and I bet you are going to again imbue us all with the answer? BOY I juuuuuuusssssst can't wait. OK let's read further. :-)))

Well, because marching bands feature a COLOR GUARD that do nothing but deal with flags. So when a band does a theme, the flags match the theme.

GEE THANKS FOR THE KIND EXPLANATION……

Also, keep in mind that marching bands spend a lot of time practicing. The school knew what the theme of the show would be. The administrators knew what the theme would be. It is not this springs from a single second urge.

EXACTLY THE POINT EINSTEIN! And again, thanks for the enlightening information about practicing. I would have never guessed they actually practiced otherwise. I bet you're very handy to have around eh?

Mike, do you honestly believe that a band director would say, "I am going to risk my job and offend Jews and everyone else. I will do this by flying a Nazi flag in football half-time (which hardly anyone watches anyway). THAT will teach them."?

Hey bud, let me enlighten you a bit.
I don’t give 1 shit why they did it.

I can tell you this though. If for Halloween the bartender at a SUNY State School came in dressed in a Sheet carrying a mock noose on his side he would be spending the next 2 years eating from a feeding tube. Then he could spend all that extra time on his hands figuring out what exactly led him to such a foolish and ignorant choice of costume. Perhaps you and he could publish a paper on the probabilites of each explanation and give a statistical and philosophical piece detailing this. I'm sure it would make for very interesting reading.

I watched the video of this on the news. The show seemed pretty boring (then again, I'm spoiled. The nation's best bands come from my local area.) How anyone can say that the band's performance was trying to provoke obvously doesn't understand a marching band performance. Unless you know what you're looking at, they are very boring.

Noone cares if it was boring or not. However, perhaps you could provide us all with a link to the video of the clip, since you have already proven how useful you are.

Oh and the fact that it was boring or exciting is totally immaterial. The fact they did it in an exiting way or not I couldn't give a crap, it was wrong. If my kid does something wrong I try and make sure he doesn’t do it again and then figure out what led him to his ignorance.

But let us suppose you are right. Let us say that using the Nazi flag in a historical themed performance is wrong, insensitive (to what?), and evil.

I'm not supposing or beating around the bush, in case you hadn’t notice that’s not part of my personality. And I don’t need to analyze it, its wrong period.

They also showed an English flag. This obviously infuriated the Irish people for the persecution england did to them. I mean, the INSENSITIVITY and HATRED of using an ENGLISH FLAG would upset the Irish.

Again, the bullshit parsing. More wasting of everyone’s time on something that is basic common sense. I can’t speak for the Irish, however an American flag doesn’t represent killing and hanging to blacks, however, the Union Jack does.

The present German flag represents modern day Germany not past fascist Germany, where the express ideology was part and parcel to discriminate and then eliminate the Jews and other “unpures” in with the Jews.

They also showed a French Flag. This obviously infuriated current military forces with France's backstabbing. I mean, the INSENSITIVITY and HATRED of using the French flag! I mean, come on, what were they thinking!?

Again, more nonsense parsing. You must have a lot of time on your hands to try and convince yourself of how smart you are. Oh and maybe you can find out if it was the Vichy Flag on the present day flag. I know we can’t wait for your reply. )

I think you should come to my neighborhood Halloween night dressed in full Nazi regalia and have your friend come dressed in a sheet. After your hospitalized you can explain to everyone how under “your intelligencia justifications” the costumes were actually perfectly appropriate. I’LL GIVE YOU THE ADDRESS HALLOWEEN’S RIGHT AROUND THE CORNER.

They also showed the American flag. This obviously infuriated Native Americans. I mean, how can we be so INSENSITIVE? Oh, have they lost their mind!

Man this guy is still going. time on his hands nothing but time on hand.

I feel sorry that their result will not be on their marching drill, their music, but on some idiots (who see everything politically) cannot enjoy a simple football half-time show. Their hard work was ruined by a handful of antigones who have to politicize everything, even a historicailly themed half-time show.
These people need to get a life.

2 ANAMOLIES –
You telling anyone they need to get a life
Followed up by you calling anyone an “idiot”

These are cannundrums worthy of figuring out the physics of the inside of a Black Hole, no pun intended in your case.

I N C O N C L U S I O N -
T H E B A N D W A S H E A V I L Y B O O E D !

I just read the report in the NY Post and it said that the stadium not only heavily booed them but also threw things at them. Proving, that in this insane world we can still hope that most do in fact have common sense and decency.

Perhaps we can buy Jonathan a ticket to an upcoming WWII VOW event in Texas somewhere and dress him in full Nazi uniform wearing Swastika. He can go to educate and enlighten the vets with some of his needed historical perspective (to further educate theirs). And perhaps they can imbue him with some needed common sense. He can report back and let us all know how it goes. GEE and I CAN'T WAIT…………..

Posted by: Mike at October 1, 2003 05:19 PM

Posted by Patrick Lasswell -
KKK came about after the Civil War and is entirely an artifact of the post-war era. Please keep that in perspective. The KKK is a product of Nathan Bedford Forrest, not Robert E. Lee.

I am fully aware of this. So perhaps instead of sheets perhaps the black members could walk with chains on their feet? And your point is well taken and you got my point nonetheless. However, also note, that part of the reason of the KKK's success was the ending of slavery and entering into a more violent period now that the blacks were technically "free".

If you are unable to distinguish between the character of those two Confederate officers, you should probably refrain from discussing the Civil War.

Please don't F*** lecture me. Also please find where I mentioned Robert E. Lee. To paraphrase you - "If you're going to make bold accusations back them up!"

Publicly parading the Nazi flag is offensive in any circumstance. Although I support the right of people to engage in artistic expression, the bounds of that expression are of necessity more circumspect when its instruments are minor children. Instructing a minor child to parade the Nazi flag in order to achieve your artistic expression is a profound lapse in judgement the raises serious questions about the fitness of the educator to exercise the public trust. If the band leader had instructed the cheerleaders to remove their clothing and parade in shackles in order to fulfil his artistic expression, we would not be having this discussion.

We agree and of course we wouldn't. And like I said if they came out in sheets instead of being booed they may have been physically maimed! However, this won't stop the minions of the extreme left from calling anyone they disagree with a Nazi or Hitler and then fully arguing for the right for kids to regale in Nazi glory and history at a High School athletic event.

Again, note the crowd roundly booed the shit out of them.

Posted by: Mike at October 1, 2003 05:29 PM

To Amy from Texas -

My best friend who is not Jewish by the way, has lived outside Dallas since High School and have been there many times. And by the way I think there are more Jewish Delis there than in some parts of New York not that it matters.

I don't bash Texas and don't feel any need to. I don't care why they regaled a Nazi flag to a marching band, giving it some kind of historical respect in doing so. I just care that they shouldn't do it and am concerned as to where the hell they would get the idea that doing it is somehow OK?

Posted by: Mike at October 1, 2003 05:33 PM

Mike,

I deleted the comment you asked me to delete. Now let me please ask you not to yell at other people on the comments board. Thanks. :)

(No need to feel bad, just mellow out a bit.)

Posted by: Michael J. Totten at October 1, 2003 06:47 PM

Whoa. Talk about barking moonbats. The whole thing sounds like something the band director character would have thought up in the comic strip "Funky Winkerbean". Geez.

Posted by: eric at October 2, 2003 06:30 AM

"Being from the area, I can tell you that Hillcrest HS has a large Jewish community around it. I went to a nearby HS and in those unPC days of the 70's we called Hillcrest HS "Hillel High". So I am not surprised that there was a lot of shock in the stands when the Nazi banner was run across the field."

I grew up in the Jewish community in Dallas near Hillcrest High School. Dallas and Houston have big Jewish communities. Paris TX is not Dallas or Houston. Most small towns in TX - like most small towns elsewhere - have very few Jews.

I don't have a problem with this reenactment or whatever it was - I'd rather save my energy for people like Mel Gibson making movies which millions of people are going to see.

Posted by: Yehudit at October 2, 2003 08:37 AM

"Even if the people in the stands were 100% Jew, this is still overkill. WWII was, what, FIFTY years ago? Just because a few people are stupid and do not know what they are watching doesn't mean they have to enforce their ignorance and ruin a performance and hundreds of student's hard work."

Darn those Jews! The Shoah was, what, FIFTY years ago? Get over it, Jew dudes! You few Jews and Jew-lovers are stupid!

"So, beyond doubt, these FEW that are 'outraged' are quacks and kooks.

Now why should we alter policy based on kooks?"

Damn straight! Those FEW Jew-kooks should be ignored! Why can't they appreciate a great rendition of Deutchland Uber Alles? It's a stirring piece of music, and it's a performance.

I'd say more, but I've rented DVDs of Triumph of The Will and Birth of a Nation, and I'm going to go enjoy these great performances, like everyone should. Except you kooky quack few JEWS!

On a separate note: sometimes I wish my own blog inspired more comments.

This isn't one of those moments.

Posted by: Gary Farber at October 2, 2003 01:15 PM

Michael,

I asked you to delete my FIRST comment only
to Jonathan. I edited it after posting it so that would more clearly define Jonathan's text and my reply in the comments section.

I probably wasted about 20 minutes editing it to make it easily discernable and definitely DO NOT appreciate you deleting the 2nd version as well!
THANKS.

Mike

Posted by: Mike at October 2, 2003 06:59 PM

Scratch that Michael. Sorry.
I read it wrong, lol.......
I see you just deleted my 1rst reply.

Now I am genuinely thanking you.

Good night.

Posted by: Mike at October 2, 2003 07:00 PM



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