July 5, 2010
Ahmadinejad’s “Mission”
It doesn't usually end well when the leader of one nation or group of people furiously denounces another as sub-human or non-human, and it takes real nerve for a ruthless tyrant to describe any American president as the world's harshest dictator, but Iran's Mahmoud Ahmadinejad did both a few weeks ago.
From MEMRI, via Marty Peretz:
"Over 60 years ago, by means of an artificial and false pretext, and by fabricating information and inventing stories, they gathered the filthiest, most criminal people, who only appear to be human, from all corners of the world. They organized and armed them, and provided them with media and military backing. Thus, they occupied the Palestinian lands, and displaced the Palestinian people. [...]
"[Obama] said: We support the Iranian nation’s right to be free, and so on and so forth... This is the Iranian nation. You want to talk about this? This nation does not accept you one little bit. The Iranian people loathe you. [...]
"All the anti-human plans in the world are carried out under [Obama] and his administration. All the occupations, massacres, and human rights violations are perpetrated under his administration, yet along he comes with complaints about our nation.
"Let me say something new here. This declaration of his has committed us, from this moment on, to add another international mission to those we already have.
"What is this mission? I will tell you what it is.
"Today, the harshest dictatorship is the one operating against the American nation, and the greatest pressure is exerted over there. They have no freedom of expression. No newspaper has the right to write anything about the crimes of the Zionists, or about the support given to them by the U.S. politicians. The American people do not have the right to demonstrate freely or to oppose the crimes of their politicians. Many Americans live in poverty. Eighty million people are poor. Some [leader] of that same America plundered hundreds and thousands of billions of dollars from the wealth of other nations.
"Mr. President, before thinking about other nations, think about your own. The action you took has forced us to declare that from now on, one of the main demands of the Iranian nation is to rescue the American people from its non-democratic bullying administration."
Posted by Michael J. Totten at July 5, 2010 12:45 PM
Comments
I've been reading your blog for some time now and as far back as i can remember i have never heard such unsubstantiated dribble come out of ones mouth as i did reading the words from irans president. it makes me think about how the real victims of dictatorship are being slapped in the face after those remarks. I do believe that there are problems with this country but to read something like that and for him to say we need to be saved as a people.... well it just boggles the brain.
Posted by: Brian Schendzielos at July 5, 2010 12:53 pm
Thwarted aims? Mounting problems at home? Good news if so. The "non-democratic bullying" part is rich. Maybe his buddy Hugo helped him write it.
Posted by: Paul S. at July 5, 2010 1:24 pm
Read it and think about a Jew living in Iran.
If ever there was a reason for the Jews to be able to carry weapons to protect them selves here they are.
Posted by: Rani at July 5, 2010 1:38 pm
If ever there was a reason for the Jews to be able to carry weapons to protect them selves here they are.
"Brian Schendzielos at July 5, 2010 12:53 pm "
First of all, these words are for external consumption. I don't believe for a second that "rank and file" Iranians believe any of it.
Ahmadinejad is holding on to things only through intimidation and oppression. History shows that such efforts do not endure but history also shows that the people who engage in such efforts always believe that they will. The dictatorship in Iran will come to an end when the people decide that they can no longer be intimidated. Once the threat of death is a lesser punishment than living under the current system, there will be nothing that the government can do.
Look at China as an example. While China is by some reports to have killed thousands of citizens, the regime DID change as they recognized that if they did not change, such movements would only gain strength and would be more difficult to quell. They apparently put the lid on the uprising but at the same time took measures to enact changes.
In Eastern Europe the same thing happened but some of the governments refused to enact changes and as a result you saw Nicolae Ceauşescu and his wife executed on national television. The same fate could befall Ahmadinejad, Hugo Chávez, Kim Jong-il or any other dictatorial regime once the people decide that it is better to die fighting a tyrant than to live under one. That is what happened in our own country.
Once the people reach that point in their minds, there is nothing the government can do.
No government on this planet stands except at the pleasure of the citizens. Once enough citizens reach the point where the threat of death is no longer a deterrent, the government no longer has any power. In the case of Iran, there is the added dimension of religion and that, I believe, is the only thing that has prevented Ahmadinejad from being hauled out into the streets and hanged from a street light pole.
Posted by: crosspatch at July 5, 2010 1:39 pm
First of all, these words are for external consumption. I don't believe for a second that "rank and file" Iranians believe any of it.
Ahmadinejad is holding on to things only through intimidation and oppression. History shows that such efforts do not endure but history also shows that the people who engage in such efforts always believe that they will. The dictatorship in Iran will come to an end when the people decide that they can no longer be intimidated. Once the threat of death is a lesser punishment than living under the current system, there will be nothing that the government can do.
Look at China as an example. While China is by some reports to have killed thousands of citizens, the regime DID change as they recognized that if they did not change, such movements would only gain strength and would be more difficult to quell. They apparently put the lid on the uprising but at the same time took measures to enact changes.
In Eastern Europe the same thing happened but some of the governments refused to enact changes and as a result you saw Nicolae Ceauşescu and his wife executed on national television. The same fate could befall Ahmadinejad, Hugo Chávez, Kim Jong-il or any other dictatorial regime once the people decide that it is better to die fighting a tyrant than to live under one. That is what happened in our own country.
Once the people reach that point in their minds, there is nothing the government can do.
No government on this planet stands except at the pleasure of the citizens. Once enough citizens reach the point where the threat of death is no longer a deterrent, the government no longer has any power. In the case of Iran, there is the added dimension of religion and that, I believe, is the only thing that has prevented Ahmadinejad from being hauled out into the streets and hanged from a street light pole.
crosspatch at July 5, 2010 1:39 pm
I agree with what you say fully. You are right that the will of the people is sronger than the will of the government. I too don't believe the iranian people believe what he is saying. I just wait for the day when they get tired of hearing it and actually do something about it.
Posted by: Brian Schendzielos at July 5, 2010 1:56 pm
I agree with what you say fully. You are right that the will of the people is sronger than the will of the government. I too don't believe the iranian people believe what he is saying. I just wait for the day when they get tired of hearing it and actually do something about it.
"the day when they get tired of hearing it and actually do something about it."
North Korea; how high must the misery index rise? If it reaches a point where only the army gets fed that would be a tipping point.
Posted by: Paul S. at July 5, 2010 2:07 pm
North Korea; how high must the misery index rise? If it reaches a point where only the army gets fed that would be a tipping point.
"If it reaches a point where only the army gets fed that would be a tipping point. "
In North Korea over the past 30 days we have seen the complete elimination of restrictions on private markets. Starvation of the working class has become a political issue. But as in Iran, the political leadership of North Korea is for all practical purposes the religious leadership as a religion of Kim has replaced any traditional religion and the ruling family is seen to be of almost divine powers.
The problems that North Korea faces are immense. Increasingly, army recruits are of diminished physical and mental capacity due to malnutrition. North Korea's military has not fought a military action in 60 years. Their doctrine is based on fantasy that has never been tried under combat conditions. How would they supply an army in the field for more than a couple of weeks when they can not even supply their own citizens day to day?
The situation with North Korea is in some ways the opposite of that in Iran. North Korea's actions are meant for internal consumption. They can sink a South Korean ship with impunity. That shows the people how gloriously strong they are because South Korea and the US dare not do anything about it.
Apparently China is still playing a game of "anything that causes our rival, America, to consume resources is an advantage to China". So they (China) can force America to consume resources in the defense of South Korea in the face of North Korean belligerence while expending no resources of their own in that effort by simply siding with North Korea.
How much this is actually to China's advantage in the long term remains to be seen. It certainly is a gamble.
Iran, on the other hand, is simply playing to the "progressive" popular meme that it is "cool" to be anti-American. What they don't realize yet is that "progressive" movements are dying in the west and fastest in Europe.
Posted by: crosspatch at July 5, 2010 2:30 pm
In North Korea over the past 30 days we have seen the complete elimination of restrictions on private markets. Starvation of the working class has become a political issue. But as in Iran, the political leadership of North Korea is for all practical purposes the religious leadership as a religion of Kim has replaced any traditional religion and the ruling family is seen to be of almost divine powers.
The problems that North Korea faces are immense. Increasingly, army recruits are of diminished physical and mental capacity due to malnutrition. North Korea's military has not fought a military action in 60 years. Their doctrine is based on fantasy that has never been tried under combat conditions. How would they supply an army in the field for more than a couple of weeks when they can not even supply their own citizens day to day?
The situation with North Korea is in some ways the opposite of that in Iran. North Korea's actions are meant for internal consumption. They can sink a South Korean ship with impunity. That shows the people how gloriously strong they are because South Korea and the US dare not do anything about it.
Apparently China is still playing a game of "anything that causes our rival, America, to consume resources is an advantage to China". So they (China) can force America to consume resources in the defense of South Korea in the face of North Korean belligerence while expending no resources of their own in that effort by simply siding with North Korea.
How much this is actually to China's advantage in the long term remains to be seen. It certainly is a gamble.
Iran, on the other hand, is simply playing to the "progressive" popular meme that it is "cool" to be anti-American. What they don't realize yet is that "progressive" movements are dying in the west and fastest in Europe.
crosspatch,
Interesting, but on what do you base your final sentence?
Posted by: del at July 5, 2010 2:40 pm
Interesting, but on what do you base your final sentence?
" del at July 5, 2010 2:40 pm"
Election results and policy decisions.
Posted by: crosspatch at July 5, 2010 2:43 pm
Election results and policy decisions.
I want to believe that soon the people of Iran and NK will "get tired" and rise up against their governments. This is, in fact, the most fervent wish of "progressives" all over the world who have literally no other workable solution to offer to oppressed peoples. But then I remember that the NK government--and the ideology that drives it--has been firmly in power for 60 years and, despite whatever problems they may face today, can probably keep control for another 60. After all, we know there's nothing they won't do to maintain control over their population.
Posted by: Gene at July 5, 2010 3:18 pm
"After all, we know there's nothing they won't do to maintain control over their population. "
To include killing it? If so, over whom would they rule?
Posted by: crosspatch at July 5, 2010 3:26 pm
To include killing it? If so, over whom would they rule?
crosspatch,
I agree with you on every aspect of what you said except one. I don't think Iran is playing to progressive movements as a whole. I believe that they are playing to a more fundamentalist movement also inside there own country and in the entire region. They aren't looking to be the "cool kid in school" as much as they are looking to run the entire region. In doing so they need to play on those thoughts and ideas that it is gods will and their mission to replace us as the gaurdian of the region. This resistance movement is nothing new or progressive its mirrored in centuries of mistrust, religous zealotry and political stife. I don't pretend to be a expert in the region at all. I just think the comments that we just read in this blog were not only for external consumption like you said but also for the internal consumption of irans mullahs and revolutionary guard and for their regional proxies Hamas and Hezbollah.
Posted by: Brian Schendzielos at July 5, 2010 3:32 pm
I agree with you on every aspect of what you said except one. I don't think Iran is playing to progressive movements as a whole. I believe that they are playing to a more fundamentalist movement also inside there own country and in the entire region. They aren't looking to be the "cool kid in school" as much as they are looking to run the entire region. In doing so they need to play on those thoughts and ideas that it is gods will and their mission to replace us as the gaurdian of the region. This resistance movement is nothing new or progressive its mirrored in centuries of mistrust, religous zealotry and political stife. I don't pretend to be a expert in the region at all. I just think the comments that we just read in this blog were not only for external consumption like you said but also for the internal consumption of irans mullahs and revolutionary guard and for their regional proxies Hamas and Hezbollah.
I like a lot of your analysis, crosspatch. But I echo Del's question about the basis for any trend(s) you're seeing. Yes, significantly fewer Americans, at least, self-identify as "liberal" (quotes for you, Craig) than not. However, if all politics are ultimately local, I see who's chosen to control many legislatures. And what the MSM doesn't report, plus academia...In America, for example, is the urge to "comprehensively" get illegals registered to vote, because enough of the population is wise to progressivism's costs, a bell weather trend? Where you may see a line graph, pessimist that I am, I see a circle.
I hope you're right. Europeans' perspectives would be valuable.
Posted by: Paul S. at July 5, 2010 3:41 pm
I hope you're right. Europeans' perspectives would be valuable.
Honestly, I find it more amusing than outrageous. That said, I personally believe we're in a battle against our own government to preserve the liberties laid out in the Constitution.
Perhaps Little Hitler isn't as far off base as we'd like to think, in this regard.
Posted by: Nate at July 5, 2010 4:02 pm
Perhaps Little Hitler isn't as far off base as we'd like to think, in this regard.
"They aren't looking to be the "cool kid in school" as much as they are looking to run the entire region."
I think they are trying to do both and using one to facilitate the other where they can leverage it to their own ends.
"But I echo Del's question about the basis for any trend(s) you're seeing. Yes, significantly fewer Americans, at least, self-identify as "liberal" (quotes for you, Craig) than not. However, if all politics are ultimately local, I see who's chosen to control many legislatures. "
Look at recent policy decisions in Sweden, for example where it is dawning on them that maybe their welfare state isn't sustainable and maybe the way to a secure energy supply is nuclear power. Look at recent elections in just about every state. Suddenly Merkel is too far left in Germany to suit public opinion. What do you think will happen in Spain in the next elections? Just about every program the Socialists touted has been either reversed or scaled back. Poland has recently had elections. What about elections in Hungary?
Europe is moving right. First it was Italy, then France, then Germany, then the UK, and it continues.
"Progressive" policies have proved to be unsustainable. You can not create some utopia on the backs of "the rich". You can not create an energy policy based on solar and wind power where prospects of power output projections are based on theoretical "capacity" figures that are never reached in practical terms.
I am neither a Republican nor a Democrat at this point in time. There really isn't a party in the US that I can identify with though I do see the Republicans at this point as being "less dangerous" than the Democrats.
"Progressives" are really the tools of totalitarian "nanny-stater" types in my opinion, and the thugs that stand to benefit from their policies. "Conservatives" seem to have fallen in with the large corporate "good old boys". I would be more aligned with something that supports individual entrepreneurial sprit, something that would support the sole proprietor over the multinational conglomerate. Trouble is that there are no multimillion dollar checks forthcoming from individual sole proprietors.
Posted by: crosspatch at July 5, 2010 4:19 pm
I think they are trying to do both and using one to facilitate the other where they can leverage it to their own ends.
"But I echo Del's question about the basis for any trend(s) you're seeing. Yes, significantly fewer Americans, at least, self-identify as "liberal" (quotes for you, Craig) than not. However, if all politics are ultimately local, I see who's chosen to control many legislatures. "
Look at recent policy decisions in Sweden, for example where it is dawning on them that maybe their welfare state isn't sustainable and maybe the way to a secure energy supply is nuclear power. Look at recent elections in just about every state. Suddenly Merkel is too far left in Germany to suit public opinion. What do you think will happen in Spain in the next elections? Just about every program the Socialists touted has been either reversed or scaled back. Poland has recently had elections. What about elections in Hungary?
Europe is moving right. First it was Italy, then France, then Germany, then the UK, and it continues.
"Progressive" policies have proved to be unsustainable. You can not create some utopia on the backs of "the rich". You can not create an energy policy based on solar and wind power where prospects of power output projections are based on theoretical "capacity" figures that are never reached in practical terms.
I am neither a Republican nor a Democrat at this point in time. There really isn't a party in the US that I can identify with though I do see the Republicans at this point as being "less dangerous" than the Democrats.
"Progressives" are really the tools of totalitarian "nanny-stater" types in my opinion, and the thugs that stand to benefit from their policies. "Conservatives" seem to have fallen in with the large corporate "good old boys". I would be more aligned with something that supports individual entrepreneurial sprit, something that would support the sole proprietor over the multinational conglomerate. Trouble is that there are no multimillion dollar checks forthcoming from individual sole proprietors.
"I think we've been through a period where too many people have been given to understand that if they have a problem, it's the government's job to cope with it."
Margaret Thatcher
But she also said, "Europe will never be like America. Europe is a product of history. America is a product of philosophy." Europeans and historians will comment further, I hope.
Posted by: Paul S. at July 5, 2010 5:07 pm
Margaret Thatcher
But she also said, "Europe will never be like America. Europe is a product of history. America is a product of philosophy." Europeans and historians will comment further, I hope.
Among countries setting themselves up for a cupboard-is-bare wakeup call, Spain has to be near the top of the list; when Michigan's unemployment rate was "only" 12+%, Spain's was 3.5 points higher. Michigan recently hit 14.1%.
Posted by: Paul S. at July 5, 2010 5:16 pm
"Europe will never be like America. Europe is a product of history. America is a product of philosophy."
Well, there is a significant difference in that Europe is a gradual evolution of the supremacy of the state whereas America was a "green field" where we could instantiate the supremacy of the individual.
Europe has always been "statist" whether that state be a king or a parliament under the consent of a king or a king under the consent of the parliament and eventually a national government that is the supreme authority. America still has a notion that the government is subordinate to the people, not the other way round. So in that respect, yes, we are a product of a philosophy. and yes, Europe is burdened by their history of the government being responsible for the people. So what Thatcher was really talking about was the possibility of "Americanizing" Europe in their thinking about government.
One other government that moved to the right recently was the European Parliament. One thing America wasn't burdened with was each state having its own language and history going back centuries. It is the individual national identities of the Europeans that holds them back from becoming a nation. Until there is one common language, they are "pissing up a rope".
Posted by: crosspatch at July 5, 2010 5:27 pm
Well, there is a significant difference in that Europe is a gradual evolution of the supremacy of the state whereas America was a "green field" where we could instantiate the supremacy of the individual.
Europe has always been "statist" whether that state be a king or a parliament under the consent of a king or a king under the consent of the parliament and eventually a national government that is the supreme authority. America still has a notion that the government is subordinate to the people, not the other way round. So in that respect, yes, we are a product of a philosophy. and yes, Europe is burdened by their history of the government being responsible for the people. So what Thatcher was really talking about was the possibility of "Americanizing" Europe in their thinking about government.
One other government that moved to the right recently was the European Parliament. One thing America wasn't burdened with was each state having its own language and history going back centuries. It is the individual national identities of the Europeans that holds them back from becoming a nation. Until there is one common language, they are "pissing up a rope".
"Our Declaration of Independence has been copied by emerging nations around the globe, its themes adopted in places many of us have never heard of. Here in this land, for the first time, it was decided that man is born with certain God-given rights. We the people declared that government is created by the people for their own convenience. Government has no powers except those voluntarily granted it by the people. There have been revolutions before and since ours, revolutions that simply exchanged one set of rulers for another. Ours was a philosophical revolution that changed the very concept of government."
Ronald Reagan, address at Yorktown, October 19, 1981
Posted by: Paul S. at July 5, 2010 6:05 pm
Ronald Reagan, address at Yorktown, October 19, 1981
The idea that dictatorships cannot last I think is far too optimistic. Democracy and "freedoms" are only very recent ideas in the world and are themselves very fragile. Dictatorships can indeed last, and have lasted longer than any democracy. The fact that NK hasn't revolted yet, despite the horrible conditions makes that point.
Crosspatch: the idea that governments were responsible for their people only emerged in Europe in the 19th century. Before then it was a "you are on your own" model - so that has nothing to do with the current state of things. The US went through much the same changes as Europe but for a variety of reasons never took it as far.
"It is the individual national identities of the Europeans that holds them back from becoming a nation. Until there is one common language, they are "pissing up a rope". " It certainly makes things more difficult but its not insurmountable. There are plenty of examples of highly stable multi-cultural nations (i.e. Switzerland)
Posted by: Cassius Corodes at July 5, 2010 6:08 pm
Crosspatch: the idea that governments were responsible for their people only emerged in Europe in the 19th century. Before then it was a "you are on your own" model - so that has nothing to do with the current state of things. The US went through much the same changes as Europe but for a variety of reasons never took it as far.
"It is the individual national identities of the Europeans that holds them back from becoming a nation. Until there is one common language, they are "pissing up a rope". " It certainly makes things more difficult but its not insurmountable. There are plenty of examples of highly stable multi-cultural nations (i.e. Switzerland)
"Before then it was a "you are on your own" model"
To some extent but the monarch was always blamed for conditions.
"There are plenty of examples of highly stable multi-cultural nations"
Yes, but those have a common national identity as does Canada. Europe does not. Wake me up where there is one single "Europe" team in the World Cup.
Posted by: crosspatch at July 5, 2010 6:12 pm
To some extent but the monarch was always blamed for conditions.
"There are plenty of examples of highly stable multi-cultural nations"
Yes, but those have a common national identity as does Canada. Europe does not. Wake me up where there is one single "Europe" team in the World Cup.
The threshold of force(s) necessary to influence, never mind subvert is much lower for "freedom states" than dictatorships. See: Israeli elections vs. Iraq under Saddam absent external intervention.
Posted by: Paul S. at July 5, 2010 6:22 pm
Crosspatch: "To some extent but the monarch was always blamed for conditions." The US govt is blamed for the conditions of that country too - I dont think that is a valid point.
"Yes, but those have a common national identity as does Canada. Europe does not. Wake me up where there is one single "Europe" team in the World Cup. "
Well it certainly isn't going to happen overnight - there hasn't even been a single generation yet! Canadians didn't think of themselves as Canadians for centuries, same with the Swiss - all I am saying is that it doesn't mean they wont eventually do so. (also the soccer thing will never happen at all - where would the fun be in that - even the UK plays separate!)
Posted by: Cassius Corodes at July 5, 2010 6:34 pm
"Yes, but those have a common national identity as does Canada. Europe does not. Wake me up where there is one single "Europe" team in the World Cup. "
Well it certainly isn't going to happen overnight - there hasn't even been a single generation yet! Canadians didn't think of themselves as Canadians for centuries, same with the Swiss - all I am saying is that it doesn't mean they wont eventually do so. (also the soccer thing will never happen at all - where would the fun be in that - even the UK plays separate!)
"also the soccer thing will never happen at all"
Then Europe will never be a nation ... at all.
Posted by: crosspatch at July 5, 2010 6:43 pm
Then Europe will never be a nation ... at all.
Put another way, if separate European states are allowed to enter separate teams for World Cup competition, what about the 50 US states? Then they should be allowed to enter separate teams.
Europe wants to play it both ways. They want to be considered as a nation when that benefits them and they want to be considered as individual nations when that benefits them.
Life will be more ordered once Europe makes its mind up.
Posted by: crosspatch at July 5, 2010 6:45 pm
Europe wants to play it both ways. They want to be considered as a nation when that benefits them and they want to be considered as individual nations when that benefits them.
Life will be more ordered once Europe makes its mind up.
I'm not sure where you are going with your comment crosspatch. If the US actually wanted to enter all 50 states then they probably could (after all the more the merrier) - however the US barely has enough interest in soccer for one team, let alone 50! (and dare I say it - talent! :D)
Currently Europe is a very loose confederation, this is the beginning of all new nations and by no means a guarantee it will go anywhere. If people find it worthwhile the confederation will get stronger and more centralised over time. There is nothing there to make up ones mind about - its just a matter of time to see how things will pan out.
Posted by: Cassius Corodes at July 5, 2010 6:58 pm
Currently Europe is a very loose confederation, this is the beginning of all new nations and by no means a guarantee it will go anywhere. If people find it worthwhile the confederation will get stronger and more centralised over time. There is nothing there to make up ones mind about - its just a matter of time to see how things will pan out.
"its just a matter of time to see how things will pan out."
I can agree with that.
"the US barely has enough interest in soccer for one team:"
I suppose that depends on where you live. My town has more kids in soccer programs than in baseball programs. We could just barely get enough kids for four little league teams in each division. The soccer leagues have 10 teams in each division and there are several leagues in town.
Posted by: crosspatch at July 5, 2010 7:05 pm
I can agree with that.
"the US barely has enough interest in soccer for one team:"
I suppose that depends on where you live. My town has more kids in soccer programs than in baseball programs. We could just barely get enough kids for four little league teams in each division. The soccer leagues have 10 teams in each division and there are several leagues in town.
Debbie Schlussel
I’ve long ago said, Europe is lost forever. Lost to Islam. Lost to anti-Semitism. Lost to extremism. Lost to perverted moral relativism. And, of course, the last three are because of the first one–Islam.
That Was Then . . .
This Is Now . . .
So, it’s no surprise that a British judge and jury said that vandalism–destruction that could have killed many and cost hundreds of thousands of dollars–is okay . . . so long as it’s against the Jews or Israel (or someone doing business with or helping them). It’s really not too different than laws the Nazis had in place. And that’s no hyperbole.
The ends justifies the means, Judenrein-style. Yup, 1940 Europe repeats itself 70 years later. Today, they use the euphemism “Israel” as their excuse, but tomorrow, they’ll openly use the word “Jew”:
Five activists who caused £180,000 damage to an arms factory were acquitted after they argued they were seeking to prevent Israeli war crimes.
The five were jubilant after a jury found them not guilty of conspiring to cause criminal damage to the factory on the outskirts of Brighton.
The five admitted they had broken in and sabotaged the factory, but argued they were legally justified in doing so.
They believed that EDO MBM, the firm that owns the factory, was breaking export regulations by manufacturing and selling to the Israelis military equipment which would be used in the occupied territories. They wanted to slow down the manufacture of these components, and impede what they believed were war crimes being committed by Israel against the Palestinians.
After being acquitted, one of them, Robert Nicholls, told the Guardian: “I’m joyful really, at being a free man. The action was impulsive really, we just wanted to do something that would make a real difference to the people of Palestine.”
The acquitted are Nicholls, 52, Tom Woodhead, 25, Harvey Tadman, 44, Ornella Saibene, 50, all from Bristol, and Simon Levin [DS: In every anti-Semitic operation, there's always a kapo in there, somewhere], 35, from Brighton. They had decided to act last January after three weeks of Israeli military manoeuvres against Gaza in which many Palestinians were killed. . . .
In his summing up, Judge George Bathurst-Norman suggested to the jury that “you may well think that hell on earth would not be an understatement of what the Gazans suffered in that time”.
The judge highlighted the testimony by Caroline Lucas, the Green MP for Brighton Pavilion, that “all democratic paths had been exhausted” before the activists embarked on their action.
If you don’t think this could happen in America. Think again. It happens in courtrooms across the country every day. It happens against doctors, hospitals, professionals, corporations . . . with juries and judges out to get them because they are seen as prestigious and with deep pockets.
But tomorrow–a very soon tomorrow, sadly–it will be against Jews . . . because juries will think it’s okay and judges will tell them so.
Just like in 1939.
When you dumb down the rule of law for moral relativism and “the ends justifies the means,” you have lost society and civilization. And the West is well down that path.
Posted by: Herb at July 5, 2010 7:08 pm
I’ve long ago said, Europe is lost forever. Lost to Islam. Lost to anti-Semitism. Lost to extremism. Lost to perverted moral relativism. And, of course, the last three are because of the first one–Islam.
That Was Then . . .
This Is Now . . .
So, it’s no surprise that a British judge and jury said that vandalism–destruction that could have killed many and cost hundreds of thousands of dollars–is okay . . . so long as it’s against the Jews or Israel (or someone doing business with or helping them). It’s really not too different than laws the Nazis had in place. And that’s no hyperbole.
The ends justifies the means, Judenrein-style. Yup, 1940 Europe repeats itself 70 years later. Today, they use the euphemism “Israel” as their excuse, but tomorrow, they’ll openly use the word “Jew”:
Five activists who caused £180,000 damage to an arms factory were acquitted after they argued they were seeking to prevent Israeli war crimes.
The five were jubilant after a jury found them not guilty of conspiring to cause criminal damage to the factory on the outskirts of Brighton.
The five admitted they had broken in and sabotaged the factory, but argued they were legally justified in doing so.
They believed that EDO MBM, the firm that owns the factory, was breaking export regulations by manufacturing and selling to the Israelis military equipment which would be used in the occupied territories. They wanted to slow down the manufacture of these components, and impede what they believed were war crimes being committed by Israel against the Palestinians.
After being acquitted, one of them, Robert Nicholls, told the Guardian: “I’m joyful really, at being a free man. The action was impulsive really, we just wanted to do something that would make a real difference to the people of Palestine.”
The acquitted are Nicholls, 52, Tom Woodhead, 25, Harvey Tadman, 44, Ornella Saibene, 50, all from Bristol, and Simon Levin [DS: In every anti-Semitic operation, there's always a kapo in there, somewhere], 35, from Brighton. They had decided to act last January after three weeks of Israeli military manoeuvres against Gaza in which many Palestinians were killed. . . .
In his summing up, Judge George Bathurst-Norman suggested to the jury that “you may well think that hell on earth would not be an understatement of what the Gazans suffered in that time”.
The judge highlighted the testimony by Caroline Lucas, the Green MP for Brighton Pavilion, that “all democratic paths had been exhausted” before the activists embarked on their action.
If you don’t think this could happen in America. Think again. It happens in courtrooms across the country every day. It happens against doctors, hospitals, professionals, corporations . . . with juries and judges out to get them because they are seen as prestigious and with deep pockets.
But tomorrow–a very soon tomorrow, sadly–it will be against Jews . . . because juries will think it’s okay and judges will tell them so.
Just like in 1939.
When you dumb down the rule of law for moral relativism and “the ends justifies the means,” you have lost society and civilization. And the West is well down that path.
Europe is lost forever. Lost to Islam.
Don't be ridiculous.
Posted by: Michael J. Totten at July 5, 2010 8:03 pm
Don't be ridiculous.
crosspatch,
You seem to believe that the European Union is "a good thing". Why? I don't. The EU is another layer of government, of taxes, of corruption, of arbitrary laws and enforced conformity. It is a bureaucratic nightmare. If liberty or freedom are important, then the less EU the better.
Posted by: del at July 5, 2010 8:09 pm
You seem to believe that the European Union is "a good thing". Why? I don't. The EU is another layer of government, of taxes, of corruption, of arbitrary laws and enforced conformity. It is a bureaucratic nightmare. If liberty or freedom are important, then the less EU the better.
As Del suggests, how much would EU homogenization blend away?
Posted by: Paul S. at July 5, 2010 9:47 pm
As for Canada, I wonder how many Quebecois will never consider themselves Canadian.
Posted by: Paul S. at July 5, 2010 9:48 pm
MJT, what is up with the blog transferring?
Europe is playing a large and generally positive global role in solving many global problems.
The large majority of the more than 50,000 non US security forces in Afghanistan are European. Europe is giving the Afghans tens of billions of dollars in grants. The European role in training and advising the ANSF is massive.
France just announced they are adding an additional 250 trainers to NTM-A:
France is the lead national responsible for helping ANATC [Afghan National Army Training Command] train ANA officers. Other countries such as Turkey and America are helping France, but France is responsible for coordinating that help. The world owes a debt of gratitude to France and Turkey for taking the lead in training ANA officers while America became distracted by Iraq.
UK is the lead country for training ANA NCOs [Of the about 4500 NCOs being trained at any given time to the E-6 level or higher, 1,000 are trained by Turkey.]
The EGF [European Gendarmerie Force] is along with the US Marine Special forces is lead responsible for training and advising the elite Afghan National Civil Order Police [ANCOP]
http://www.eurogendfor.eu/
EGF consists of France, Italy, Spain, Portugal, Netherlands and Romania. ANCOP is planned to consist of 8 brigade HQs, 8 brigade support units, 40 combat battalions, plus one Corps Troop. At least 57 POMLTs or ISAF embedded units will be needed. EGF and the Marines plan to source it out of hide.
EGF [and presumably all six of its members] are also currently training the Iraqi Federal Police [IFP.]
Britain is lead country for ANA NCOs. [One thousand out of the 4,500 NCOs being trained at any given time for E-6 or higher are to be trained by the Turks.]
Germany is among other things providing 50 embedded training teams that embed with the Afghan Police. This is in addition to 9 OMLTs that embed with the ANA [lead responsible for advising 209th ANA Corps], and many other functions. Germans 5 1/2 thousand troops make it the largest contributor after America and the UK.
Italy's role in training the ANCOP [in cooperation with Marine Special forces and EGF] is massive. They are also lead responsible [with Spanish, Lithuanian and Marine help] for advising 207th ANA Corps, and help the Turks advise 111 ANA division.
Turkey's role--as one of Europe's great powers--is also extremely substantial. Expecially with respect to ANA officer training, ANA's four year academy [NMAA], ANA NCO training, advising 111st Division, advising ANA higher secondary schools, training ANP officers [1,000 of which train in Turkey at any given time for 1 year a piece], training Afghan Border Police [probably will run one of the four training facilities for the ABP.] Turkey is deeply loved and admired by Afghans.
In what way, again, is Europe not pulling its weight?
Posted by: anan at July 5, 2010 10:16 pm
Europe is playing a large and generally positive global role in solving many global problems.
The large majority of the more than 50,000 non US security forces in Afghanistan are European. Europe is giving the Afghans tens of billions of dollars in grants. The European role in training and advising the ANSF is massive.
France just announced they are adding an additional 250 trainers to NTM-A:
France is the lead national responsible for helping ANATC [Afghan National Army Training Command] train ANA officers. Other countries such as Turkey and America are helping France, but France is responsible for coordinating that help. The world owes a debt of gratitude to France and Turkey for taking the lead in training ANA officers while America became distracted by Iraq.
UK is the lead country for training ANA NCOs [Of the about 4500 NCOs being trained at any given time to the E-6 level or higher, 1,000 are trained by Turkey.]
The EGF [European Gendarmerie Force] is along with the US Marine Special forces is lead responsible for training and advising the elite Afghan National Civil Order Police [ANCOP]
http://www.eurogendfor.eu/
EGF consists of France, Italy, Spain, Portugal, Netherlands and Romania. ANCOP is planned to consist of 8 brigade HQs, 8 brigade support units, 40 combat battalions, plus one Corps Troop. At least 57 POMLTs or ISAF embedded units will be needed. EGF and the Marines plan to source it out of hide.
EGF [and presumably all six of its members] are also currently training the Iraqi Federal Police [IFP.]
Britain is lead country for ANA NCOs. [One thousand out of the 4,500 NCOs being trained at any given time for E-6 or higher are to be trained by the Turks.]
Germany is among other things providing 50 embedded training teams that embed with the Afghan Police. This is in addition to 9 OMLTs that embed with the ANA [lead responsible for advising 209th ANA Corps], and many other functions. Germans 5 1/2 thousand troops make it the largest contributor after America and the UK.
Italy's role in training the ANCOP [in cooperation with Marine Special forces and EGF] is massive. They are also lead responsible [with Spanish, Lithuanian and Marine help] for advising 207th ANA Corps, and help the Turks advise 111 ANA division.
Turkey's role--as one of Europe's great powers--is also extremely substantial. Expecially with respect to ANA officer training, ANA's four year academy [NMAA], ANA NCO training, advising 111st Division, advising ANA higher secondary schools, training ANP officers [1,000 of which train in Turkey at any given time for 1 year a piece], training Afghan Border Police [probably will run one of the four training facilities for the ABP.] Turkey is deeply loved and admired by Afghans.
In what way, again, is Europe not pulling its weight?
Caught my attention, from Michael Yon's Facebook postings:
"Michael Ware from CNN...I often didn't agree with Mr. Ware about Iraq issues, but respected him...Last time I heard from him, he was in Mexico, and said something like it's going to be like Iraq, but with women, booze and music. Good grief."
Not to mention other consumables. Good grief is right, Charlie Brown.
Posted by: Paul S. at July 5, 2010 10:23 pm
"Michael Ware from CNN...I often didn't agree with Mr. Ware about Iraq issues, but respected him...Last time I heard from him, he was in Mexico, and said something like it's going to be like Iraq, but with women, booze and music. Good grief."
Not to mention other consumables. Good grief is right, Charlie Brown.
Herb, you should be pro muslim chief. :-)
The following muslim majority countries have security forces in Afghanistan:
-Albania
-Bosnia
-Azerbaijan
-Indonesia
-Turkey
-Malaysia [might only be civilian reconstruction workers]
-Saudi Arabia
-Egypt
-UAE
-Bahrain
-Jordan
There are reports that at long last Pakistan’s offer to train the ANSF has been partly accepted by the Afghans. Pakistani forces might join the above list. [Hope Pakistan does formally join NTM-A, because that opens the way for India to join NTM-A as well. India would likely make a very substantial contribution.]
Now to change the topic completely, why again is Israel free riding in Afghanistan? If Israel refuses to put up for Afghanistan, can they at least do right by the Palestinians to appease the muslim countries that “ARE” putting up for the Afghans?
Posted by: anan at July 5, 2010 10:25 pm
The following muslim majority countries have security forces in Afghanistan:
-Albania
-Bosnia
-Azerbaijan
-Indonesia
-Turkey
-Malaysia [might only be civilian reconstruction workers]
-Saudi Arabia
-Egypt
-UAE
-Bahrain
-Jordan
There are reports that at long last Pakistan’s offer to train the ANSF has been partly accepted by the Afghans. Pakistani forces might join the above list. [Hope Pakistan does formally join NTM-A, because that opens the way for India to join NTM-A as well. India would likely make a very substantial contribution.]
Now to change the topic completely, why again is Israel free riding in Afghanistan? If Israel refuses to put up for Afghanistan, can they at least do right by the Palestinians to appease the muslim countries that “ARE” putting up for the Afghans?
When Michael Ware from CNN talks, he often seems to be living in an alternate universe. He got Iraq so completely wrong, I sometimes wondered if he had a mental problem. Michael Ware's "knowledge" about Afghanistan is much worse than his "knowledge" about Iraq. He said on CNN that the entire Afghan war was mostly about Kashmir and India . . . that if India would do the right thing on Kashmir, the Afghan war would mostly end. Talk about being gullible and manipulated by ISI handlers . . . oh la la.
Posted by: anan at July 5, 2010 10:31 pm
anand sez: "why again is Israel free riding in Afghanistan?"
Where to begin? Mental illness? Extreme dishonesty with intent to mislead and obfuscate? Might Ombrageux step in to explain and decry this "free riding" as well?
Posted by: del at July 5, 2010 10:36 pm
Where to begin? Mental illness? Extreme dishonesty with intent to mislead and obfuscate? Might Ombrageux step in to explain and decry this "free riding" as well?
Del, I don't think America should betray Israel the way Israel has stabbed America in the back. We Americans should be better than that and not break our word by stabbing our friends in the back in their moment of greatest need.
Part of being Israel's real authentic friend and well wisher is to give them some tough love and remind them of what Israel's national interests are. No one benefits more from Palestinian success and justice than Israel.
We Americans should forgive Israel for supplying weapons to Serbia right up to the 1995 and 1999 Serbia/NATO wars. We should also forgive Israel for supplying China so much of America's classified top of the line military technology, including radar systems and F-16 technology. We should forgive Israel for supplying US defense technology to Russia. We should forgive Israel backing South Africa. We should forgive Israel for spying on America. We should do this because we are large hearted and forgiving.
Sometimes Israel is actually right and America wrong. Kind of like the way Israel has reached out to China and Russia. The world owes Israel for backing Khomeini against Saddam 1980-1988, and for bombing Saddam's nuclear program in 1981.
Posted by: anan at July 5, 2010 10:51 pm
Part of being Israel's real authentic friend and well wisher is to give them some tough love and remind them of what Israel's national interests are. No one benefits more from Palestinian success and justice than Israel.
We Americans should forgive Israel for supplying weapons to Serbia right up to the 1995 and 1999 Serbia/NATO wars. We should also forgive Israel for supplying China so much of America's classified top of the line military technology, including radar systems and F-16 technology. We should forgive Israel for supplying US defense technology to Russia. We should forgive Israel backing South Africa. We should forgive Israel for spying on America. We should do this because we are large hearted and forgiving.
Sometimes Israel is actually right and America wrong. Kind of like the way Israel has reached out to China and Russia. The world owes Israel for backing Khomeini against Saddam 1980-1988, and for bombing Saddam's nuclear program in 1981.
After all, Del, it's not like the IDF couldn't spare some of those forces just sitting around at home.
Again, good grief.
Posted by: Paul S. at July 5, 2010 10:55 pm
Again, good grief.
What are you getting at Paul S?
Israel should start to pull its own wait in contributing to the global commons. Part of that is refusing to accept any more US aid, so that the US can redirect it to other countries who need it far more. Part of that is by contributing more to international relief, UN and NATO operations. Part of that is by providing far more foreign aid to fight aids in Africa. Part of that is providing foreign aid to Bangladesh, Afghanistan, Pakistan, and other muslim countries that could really use Israel's help. Part of that is by providing Palestine a marshall plan. Maybe issue $100 billion in bonds and give the money to the Palestinians.
Posted by: anan at July 5, 2010 11:02 pm
Israel should start to pull its own wait in contributing to the global commons. Part of that is refusing to accept any more US aid, so that the US can redirect it to other countries who need it far more. Part of that is by contributing more to international relief, UN and NATO operations. Part of that is by providing far more foreign aid to fight aids in Africa. Part of that is providing foreign aid to Bangladesh, Afghanistan, Pakistan, and other muslim countries that could really use Israel's help. Part of that is by providing Palestine a marshall plan. Maybe issue $100 billion in bonds and give the money to the Palestinians.
"the way Israel has stabbed America in the back."
Precisely the language of Hitler and the Nazis. anand once again exposes himself for the psychopathic degenerate pervert that he is. Are you getting your hysterical giggling kicks once again, anand, watching the video of Daniel Pearl saying "I am a Jew" before getting his head sawed off by your butt buddies? Is the climax when you see the blood spurting out of his neck?
And no, Michael, I am *not* going to knock it off when anand posts garbage like this.
Posted by: Gary Rosen at July 5, 2010 11:05 pm
Precisely the language of Hitler and the Nazis. anand once again exposes himself for the psychopathic degenerate pervert that he is. Are you getting your hysterical giggling kicks once again, anand, watching the video of Daniel Pearl saying "I am a Jew" before getting his head sawed off by your butt buddies? Is the climax when you see the blood spurting out of his neck?
And no, Michael, I am *not* going to knock it off when anand posts garbage like this.
"Maybe issue $100 billion in bonds and give the money to the Palestinians."
Yes, so they can launch rockets killing innocent Jewish children and provide anand with his cheap thrills.
Posted by: Gary Rosen at July 5, 2010 11:11 pm
Yes, so they can launch rockets killing innocent Jewish children and provide anand with his cheap thrills.
Gary, Israel long term interests require Israel to act in accordance with Israel's own values and character.
Kudos to you for caring about our mutual Israeli friends. Please care about other people and other countries too. It would be really nice to see you expressing the same outrage about AQ linked attacks against Sufis, Shiites, Ahmedis, lesser Sunnis, as you do about attacks against Israeli civilians. To be pro Israeli is to be pro Palestinian and pro Arab since 23% of Israeli citizens are non Jewish Palestinians and since about half of all Israeli citizens are Arabs [Arab Jews or non Jewish Arabs.]
Israel isn't an island. Israel can never be safe unless everyone else in the world is also safe from the Takfiri extremists.
Posted by: anan at July 5, 2010 11:16 pm
Kudos to you for caring about our mutual Israeli friends. Please care about other people and other countries too. It would be really nice to see you expressing the same outrage about AQ linked attacks against Sufis, Shiites, Ahmedis, lesser Sunnis, as you do about attacks against Israeli civilians. To be pro Israeli is to be pro Palestinian and pro Arab since 23% of Israeli citizens are non Jewish Palestinians and since about half of all Israeli citizens are Arabs [Arab Jews or non Jewish Arabs.]
Israel isn't an island. Israel can never be safe unless everyone else in the world is also safe from the Takfiri extremists.
"Maybe issue $100 billion in bonds and give the money to the Palestinians."
Textbook. Your witness, counselors.
Posted by: Paul S. at July 5, 2010 11:19 pm
Textbook. Your witness, counselors.
anand's pointed failure to deny ought to be taken as confirmation of my postulates about his behavior.
"To be pro Israeli" in anand's eyes is to fervently wish for the bloody, savage annihilation of the Jews as is so devoutly and openly wished by Hamas to whom he relentlessly toadies.
Posted by: Gary Rosen at July 5, 2010 11:20 pm
"To be pro Israeli" in anand's eyes is to fervently wish for the bloody, savage annihilation of the Jews as is so devoutly and openly wished by Hamas to whom he relentlessly toadies.
Hell, send it straight to Tehran; bypass the middle man.
Posted by: Paul S. at July 5, 2010 11:21 pm
Gary, India gave Pakistan a large sum of money after independents, despite the India/Pakistan war. India did it because it was the right thing to do, and part of the Partition agreement. India did this, against its seeming short term interests, because Indian values demanded it.
Israel has to act in accordance with Israeli values and compensate the Palestinians for all Palestinian property confiscated paying below market prices, and to atone for all Israeli actions of omission and commission that have harmed Palestinians since 1947. Israel has to be true to itself.
Posted by: anan at July 5, 2010 11:21 pm
Israel has to act in accordance with Israeli values and compensate the Palestinians for all Palestinian property confiscated paying below market prices, and to atone for all Israeli actions of omission and commission that have harmed Palestinians since 1947. Israel has to be true to itself.
anand has never expressed any outrage at activities like this, perpetrated by his antisemitic annihilationist idol Nutjob:
Stoning women to death in Iran
so we know he favors this, maybe after all the Jews are killed.
Posted by: Gary Rosen at July 5, 2010 11:31 pm
Stoning women to death in Iran
so we know he favors this, maybe after all the Jews are killed.
Link if above does not work:
http://edition.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/meast/07/01/iran.stoning/?fbid=1coSs2B1D5q
Posted by: Gary Rosen at July 5, 2010 11:32 pm
http://edition.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/meast/07/01/iran.stoning/?fbid=1coSs2B1D5q
"atone for all Israeli actions of omission and commission that have harmed Palestinians since 1947. Israel has to be true to itself"
As soon as the Palestinias atone for and pay reparations for their role in the Holocaust - as you know PLO founder Amin al-Husseini collaborated with Hitler during the Holocaust and urged the Germans to send Jewish children to the death camps(an image I'm sure will feverishly excite anand). The Palestinians have to be true to themselves.
Posted by: Gary Rosen at July 5, 2010 11:35 pm
As soon as the Palestinias atone for and pay reparations for their role in the Holocaust - as you know PLO founder Amin al-Husseini collaborated with Hitler during the Holocaust and urged the Germans to send Jewish children to the death camps(an image I'm sure will feverishly excite anand). The Palestinians have to be true to themselves.
Wanted to clarify why Israel should proudly identify itself as an Arab country. Not just as an Arab nation. But also as a Jewish nation, a muslim nation, a high tech nation, an extremely diverse nation of immigrants from around the world, an atheist nation. A democratic nation. Israel is all of these things at the same time.
Similarly, America is a Protestant nation. America is a Catholic nation. America is a Jewish nation. America is a muslim, Buddhist, Hindu and Sikh nation. America is an atheist nation. America is a free nation. America is a high tech nation. America is a German nation, an Irish nation, a Chinese nation, a Polish nation, a nation of many other cultures. America is all of these things at the same time. American leaders often proudly say that America is all of these things.
Israel has 3 1/2 million Arab citizens [Perhaps 2 million being Arab Jews.] Why shouldn't Israel use this national asset to its fullest? Demand admission to the Arab League. Demand to be treated like a fellow Arab nation. To do this isn't to deny that Israel is a Jewish nation. Rather it is to proudly claim the rights and responsibilities that come with all aspects of Israel's heritage and inheritance.
Posted by: anan at July 5, 2010 11:41 pm
Similarly, America is a Protestant nation. America is a Catholic nation. America is a Jewish nation. America is a muslim, Buddhist, Hindu and Sikh nation. America is an atheist nation. America is a free nation. America is a high tech nation. America is a German nation, an Irish nation, a Chinese nation, a Polish nation, a nation of many other cultures. America is all of these things at the same time. American leaders often proudly say that America is all of these things.
Israel has 3 1/2 million Arab citizens [Perhaps 2 million being Arab Jews.] Why shouldn't Israel use this national asset to its fullest? Demand admission to the Arab League. Demand to be treated like a fellow Arab nation. To do this isn't to deny that Israel is a Jewish nation. Rather it is to proudly claim the rights and responsibilities that come with all aspects of Israel's heritage and inheritance.
Palestinians need to denounce Amin al-Husseini for collaborating with Hitler. One of the worst human beings ever born. All Arabs need to denounce the Baa3thists and other Arab sympathizers of the Nazis. All Arabs need to denounce their own Jewish bigots. Not just Arabs. Many Europeans, leftists and Pakistanis are more anti Jewish than Arabs.
Khamenei is an idiot as are his blasphemous anti muslim interpretations of Sharia law.
Paul S, do you really think PM Fayyed would waste a Marshall aid program for Palestine?
Posted by: anan at July 5, 2010 11:49 pm
Khamenei is an idiot as are his blasphemous anti muslim interpretations of Sharia law.
Paul S, do you really think PM Fayyed would waste a Marshall aid program for Palestine?
Anan, don't be ridiculous. Muslim countries _refuse_ to accept aid from Israel, be it tzunami, earthquake or whatever. As for refusing US aid - I remind you that Israel does not receive any US economic aid, only military one that can be used exclusively for buying US-made military goods - so it is kind of US-issued stimulus package for US military industry.So - to what countries do you want to redirect this advanced military stuff?
Posted by: rabbit256 at July 5, 2010 11:53 pm
Anan: Palestinians need to denounce Amin al-Husseini for collaborating with Hitler.
Yeah, well, most of them won't.
Posted by: Michael J. Totten at July 6, 2010 12:18 am
Yeah, well, most of them won't.
"One of the worst human beings ever born."
Nevertheless, anand shares his psychopathic vision of Jewish annihilation.
Posted by: Gary Rosen at July 6, 2010 1:18 am
Nevertheless, anand shares his psychopathic vision of Jewish annihilation.
"the filthiest, most criminal people, who only appear to be human"
Legitimate criticism of Israeli policies by an unarmed peace-activist or the very example of anti-Semitism that the anti-Israel position is based on? Hard to tell.
Anan,
Middle-eastern Jews (from Iraq and other countries) are not Arabs and have never been Arabs. They are Jews. The only people in the middle-east that Jews have intermarried with to a degree that the nations mixed up to some extend were the Kurds.
Most middle-eastern Jews came from Iraq and most Iraqi Jews didn't even live in the Arab south (although many lived in Arab Baghdad) but in (Assyrian) Mosul and in Kurdistan. Those Jews have for centuries never seen a Arabs except as visiting traders.
I think this "everything is Arab" attitude for the ME has to stop. It's just as wrong as the "everything is German" attitude was for Europe.
Posted by: Andrew Brehm at July 6, 2010 1:39 am
Legitimate criticism of Israeli policies by an unarmed peace-activist or the very example of anti-Semitism that the anti-Israel position is based on? Hard to tell.
Anan,
Middle-eastern Jews (from Iraq and other countries) are not Arabs and have never been Arabs. They are Jews. The only people in the middle-east that Jews have intermarried with to a degree that the nations mixed up to some extend were the Kurds.
Most middle-eastern Jews came from Iraq and most Iraqi Jews didn't even live in the Arab south (although many lived in Arab Baghdad) but in (Assyrian) Mosul and in Kurdistan. Those Jews have for centuries never seen a Arabs except as visiting traders.
I think this "everything is Arab" attitude for the ME has to stop. It's just as wrong as the "everything is German" attitude was for Europe.
"No one benefits more from Palestinian success and justice than Israel."
My first guess would be "everyone the Palestinians are not firing rockets at" benefits more from Palestinian success and whatever goes for "justice" these days.
Posted by: Andrew Brehm at July 6, 2010 1:42 am
My first guess would be "everyone the Palestinians are not firing rockets at" benefits more from Palestinian success and whatever goes for "justice" these days.
"It's just as wrong as the "everything is German" attitude was for Europe."
For anand there was nothing wrong with that attitude and for him what it led to could not have been more right.
Posted by: Gary Rosen at July 6, 2010 1:58 am
For anand there was nothing wrong with that attitude and for him what it led to could not have been more right.
Andrew,
Mizrachi Jews certainly are not Arabs - but I beg to disagree with one of your statements. Namely, most numerous Mizrachi community in Israel is not of Iraqi but of Moroccan origin ( and that makes Israel one of significant francophone countries).
Of course, community boundaries in Israel are rather difficult to define - only ultra-religious communities are insular, for all other Jewish communities Israel is the proverbial melting pot (my son's girlfriend, for example, is rather typical - with Iraqi, Egyptian, Dutch and Polish roots).
Posted by: rabbit256 at July 6, 2010 2:15 am
Mizrachi Jews certainly are not Arabs - but I beg to disagree with one of your statements. Namely, most numerous Mizrachi community in Israel is not of Iraqi but of Moroccan origin ( and that makes Israel one of significant francophone countries).
Of course, community boundaries in Israel are rather difficult to define - only ultra-religious communities are insular, for all other Jewish communities Israel is the proverbial melting pot (my son's girlfriend, for example, is rather typical - with Iraqi, Egyptian, Dutch and Polish roots).
Andrew,
one more point - Iraqi Jews and Kurdish Jews are two different communities.
Posted by: rabbit256 at July 6, 2010 2:20 am
one more point - Iraqi Jews and Kurdish Jews are two different communities.
Andrew Brehm: I think this "everything is Arab" attitude for the ME has to stop.
It most certainly does.
As one of my (Christian) Lebanese friends put it, Arab Nationalism is just a Middle Eastern knockoff of National Socialism.
Posted by: Michael J. Totten at July 6, 2010 4:03 am
It most certainly does.
As one of my (Christian) Lebanese friends put it, Arab Nationalism is just a Middle Eastern knockoff of National Socialism.
LMAO @ Anand. It appears he has a knack for annoying people wherever the hell he goes. Go, Anand, tell these folks how it is! Never stop, no matter how hated you are across however many websites! LOL
Posted by: lurker at July 6, 2010 4:04 am
Anan – Since you had the nerve to come back to Tim’s blog, perhaps you can tell us all why you need to know the response times and contact information of individual ANA/ANP units in the Jalabad region? And why you would ask such questions on a public blog at the exact same time the enemy is kinetically seeking the answers to those very same questions?
Are you registered as an agent of a foreign nation? Do you have a green card or student visa?
=
“Now to change the topic completely, why again is Israel free riding in Afghanistan? If Israel refuses to put up for Afghanistan, can they at least do right by the Palestinians to appease the muslim countries that “ARE” putting up for the Afghans?”
R - Because almost all such offers by Israel of aid to Muslim nations are insultingly refused. There is no need for appeasing the Muslim nations that refuse to put for the “Palestinian” problem that they created. They won't accept appeasement, only the death of all Jews and destruction of Israel will satisfy them. But you already know that or you wouldn't be changing the subject.
“I don't think America should betray Israel the way Israel has stabbed America in the back. We Americans should be better than that and not break our word by stabbing our friends in the back in their moment of greatest need.”
R - Israel has not stabbed anybody in the back. Obama OTOH has stabbed all of our allies, repeatedly in a very short space of time.
“Part of being Israel's real authentic friend and well wisher is to give them some tough love and remind them of what Israel's national interests are. No one benefits more from Palestinian success and justice than Israel.”
R - We already know how to be Israel's “real authentic friend and well wisher.” It's arm them to the teeth and let them defend themselves from the genocidal maniacs that you support. Which is all they've ever asked for.
“We Americans should forgive Israel for supplying weapons to Serbia right up to the 1995 and 1999 Serbia/NATO wars.”
R - Right after we get to Germany, Italy, Russia, and China for doing the same thing to a much greater extent...
“We should also forgive Israel for supplying China so much of America's classified top of the line military technology, including radar systems and F-16 technology. We should forgive Israel for supplying US defense technology to Russia.”
R - You are a lying sack of shit. Israel did not transfer “classified top of the line military technology” to China. None of those accusations have ever been proven. Not F-16, not radar, not nothing. And not surprising, since all of those accusations came from Jew haters like Jeff Rense. Why is Anan using talking points from neo-nazi's? Both Ronald Reagan and Bill Clinton authorized the transfer of US technology to China. France provides more mil-tech to China then anybody else except Russia. Israel provides modifications to the F-15 and F-16 platforms only to the USAF.
“We should forgive Israel backing South Africa.”
R - Right after we get to India, Russia, Germany, Denmark, and Switzerland.
“We should forgive Israel for spying on America.”
R - Right after we get to Great Britain, France, Germany, Italy, Japan, Taiwan, South Korea, India, oh hell, every nation that has an intelligence agency...They all spy on the US. Who do you spy for Anan?
“Sometimes Israel is actually right and America wrong.”
R - Yeah, imagine that...
“Kind of like the way Israel has reached out to China and Russia.”
R - Didn't happen.
“The world owes Israel for backing Khomeini against Saddam 1980-1988, and for bombing Saddam's nuclear program in 1981.”
R - So then Ollie North and Fawn Hall's legs shouldn't have been called to testify after all? The Iranian's tried to bomb Saddam's nuke program in 1981 and failed.
“Israel should start to pull its own wait in contributing to the global commons.”
R - Right after the Muslim part of the “global commons” (there is no such thing) stops trying to exterminate Jews.
“Part of that is refusing to accept any more US aid, so that the US can redirect it to other countries who need it far more.”
R - Because Bangladesh is in such pressing need of random F-15 parts and air launched weapons for high performance jet fighters?
“Part of that is by contributing more to international relief, UN and NATO operations.”
R - Israel already does contribute far more to international relief then it's tiny size should require, but that aid is not accepted by most Muslim majority nations. See any Muslim hospital units show up in Haiti?
“Part of that is by providing far more foreign aid to fight aids in Africa.”
R - Israel has been quietly spreading its farming technology throughout much of Africa for several decades. Islam OTOH has been not so quietly spreading Allah and nothing else at the point of an AK-47 barrel. Who is providing more in foreign aid to Africa again?
“Part of that is providing foreign aid to Bangladesh, Afghanistan, Pakistan, and other muslim countries that could really use Israel's help.”
R - None of those nations will accept Israel's help and none of those nations would ever admit that it was even offered. Pakistan does not need aid. Pakistan needs to pick a side.
“Part of that is by providing Palestine a marshall plan. Maybe issue $100 billion in bonds and give the money to the Palestinians.”
R - See the Saudi's and the rest of the oil ticks. Only they have that kind of petty cash laying around.
“Israel long term interests require Israel to act in accordance with Israel's own values and character.”
R - WTF is that supposed to mean?
MORE
COMING,
R
Posted by: Render at July 6, 2010 4:57 am
Are you registered as an agent of a foreign nation? Do you have a green card or student visa?
=
“Now to change the topic completely, why again is Israel free riding in Afghanistan? If Israel refuses to put up for Afghanistan, can they at least do right by the Palestinians to appease the muslim countries that “ARE” putting up for the Afghans?”
R - Because almost all such offers by Israel of aid to Muslim nations are insultingly refused. There is no need for appeasing the Muslim nations that refuse to put for the “Palestinian” problem that they created. They won't accept appeasement, only the death of all Jews and destruction of Israel will satisfy them. But you already know that or you wouldn't be changing the subject.
“I don't think America should betray Israel the way Israel has stabbed America in the back. We Americans should be better than that and not break our word by stabbing our friends in the back in their moment of greatest need.”
R - Israel has not stabbed anybody in the back. Obama OTOH has stabbed all of our allies, repeatedly in a very short space of time.
“Part of being Israel's real authentic friend and well wisher is to give them some tough love and remind them of what Israel's national interests are. No one benefits more from Palestinian success and justice than Israel.”
R - We already know how to be Israel's “real authentic friend and well wisher.” It's arm them to the teeth and let them defend themselves from the genocidal maniacs that you support. Which is all they've ever asked for.
“We Americans should forgive Israel for supplying weapons to Serbia right up to the 1995 and 1999 Serbia/NATO wars.”
R - Right after we get to Germany, Italy, Russia, and China for doing the same thing to a much greater extent...
“We should also forgive Israel for supplying China so much of America's classified top of the line military technology, including radar systems and F-16 technology. We should forgive Israel for supplying US defense technology to Russia.”
R - You are a lying sack of shit. Israel did not transfer “classified top of the line military technology” to China. None of those accusations have ever been proven. Not F-16, not radar, not nothing. And not surprising, since all of those accusations came from Jew haters like Jeff Rense. Why is Anan using talking points from neo-nazi's? Both Ronald Reagan and Bill Clinton authorized the transfer of US technology to China. France provides more mil-tech to China then anybody else except Russia. Israel provides modifications to the F-15 and F-16 platforms only to the USAF.
“We should forgive Israel backing South Africa.”
R - Right after we get to India, Russia, Germany, Denmark, and Switzerland.
“We should forgive Israel for spying on America.”
R - Right after we get to Great Britain, France, Germany, Italy, Japan, Taiwan, South Korea, India, oh hell, every nation that has an intelligence agency...They all spy on the US. Who do you spy for Anan?
“Sometimes Israel is actually right and America wrong.”
R - Yeah, imagine that...
“Kind of like the way Israel has reached out to China and Russia.”
R - Didn't happen.
“The world owes Israel for backing Khomeini against Saddam 1980-1988, and for bombing Saddam's nuclear program in 1981.”
R - So then Ollie North and Fawn Hall's legs shouldn't have been called to testify after all? The Iranian's tried to bomb Saddam's nuke program in 1981 and failed.
“Israel should start to pull its own wait in contributing to the global commons.”
R - Right after the Muslim part of the “global commons” (there is no such thing) stops trying to exterminate Jews.
“Part of that is refusing to accept any more US aid, so that the US can redirect it to other countries who need it far more.”
R - Because Bangladesh is in such pressing need of random F-15 parts and air launched weapons for high performance jet fighters?
“Part of that is by contributing more to international relief, UN and NATO operations.”
R - Israel already does contribute far more to international relief then it's tiny size should require, but that aid is not accepted by most Muslim majority nations. See any Muslim hospital units show up in Haiti?
“Part of that is by providing far more foreign aid to fight aids in Africa.”
R - Israel has been quietly spreading its farming technology throughout much of Africa for several decades. Islam OTOH has been not so quietly spreading Allah and nothing else at the point of an AK-47 barrel. Who is providing more in foreign aid to Africa again?
“Part of that is providing foreign aid to Bangladesh, Afghanistan, Pakistan, and other muslim countries that could really use Israel's help.”
R - None of those nations will accept Israel's help and none of those nations would ever admit that it was even offered. Pakistan does not need aid. Pakistan needs to pick a side.
“Part of that is by providing Palestine a marshall plan. Maybe issue $100 billion in bonds and give the money to the Palestinians.”
R - See the Saudi's and the rest of the oil ticks. Only they have that kind of petty cash laying around.
“Israel long term interests require Israel to act in accordance with Israel's own values and character.”
R - WTF is that supposed to mean?
MORE
COMING,
R
Round Two -
Anan - “Kudos to you for caring about our mutual Israeli friends. Please care about other people and other countries too.”
R - It's a sliding scale thing. Want to exterminate Jews? Go to the bottom of the scale.
“It would be really nice to see you expressing the same outrage about AQ linked attacks against Sufis, Shiites, Ahmedis, lesser Sunnis, as you do about attacks against Israeli civilians.”
R - I know you're not talking to me here...
“To be pro Israeli is to be pro Palestinian and pro Arab since 23% of Israeli citizens are non Jewish Palestinians and since about half of all Israeli citizens are Arabs [Arab Jews or non Jewish Arabs.]”
R - CIA world fact book says 23.6% of Israeli's is non-Jewish, it does not use the word “Palestinian” which means you got caught lying again Anan.
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/is.html
“Israel isn't an island. Israel can never be safe unless everyone else in the world is also safe from the Takfiri extremists.”
R - Yes, Israel is an island. An island of Jews surrounded by an ocean of bloodthirsty homicidal maniacs from the seventh century.
“Israel has to act in accordance with Israeli values and compensate the Palestinians for all Palestinian property confiscated paying below market prices, and to atone for all Israeli actions of omission and commission that have harmed Palestinians since 1947. Israel has to be true to itself.”
R - Right after every single Muslim nation that expelled its own Jews (where did you think all those Arab Jews came from?) compensates Israel for the trillions of dollars in cash, land, and property that those Muslim nations stole from the very people they expelled.
“Wanted to clarify why Israel should proudly identify itself as an Arab country. Not just as an Arab nation.”
R - No clarification needed. I'm certain we all know exactly what you mean.
“But also as a Jewish nation, a muslim nation, a high tech nation, an extremely diverse nation of immigrants from around the world, an atheist nation. A democratic nation. Israel is all of these things at the same time.”
R - No, Israel is a high tech democratic secular Jewish nation, formed mostly by Jewish people driven from their former homelands by people just like you Anan.
“Similarly, America is a Protestant nation. America is a Catholic nation. America is a Jewish nation. America is a muslim, Buddhist, Hindu and Sikh nation. America is an atheist nation. America is a free nation. America is a high tech nation. America is a German nation, an Irish nation, a Chinese nation, a Polish nation, a nation of many other cultures. America is all of these things at the same time. American leaders often proudly say that America is all of these things.”
R - That's why it's called “American exceptionalism.” Accept it or go home.
“Israel has 3 1/2 million Arab citizens [Perhaps 2 million being Arab Jews.] Why shouldn't Israel use this national asset to its fullest? Demand admission to the Arab League. Demand to be treated like a fellow Arab nation. To do this isn't to deny that Israel is a Jewish nation. Rather it is to proudly claim the rights and responsibilities that come with all aspects of Israel's heritage and inheritance.”
R - Probably because the Arab League under Nasser's control created the “Palestinian” problem all by themselves in 1964 in a failed effort to wipe out Israel, and as a group the Arab League has never accepted Israel's right to exist. Egypt was briefly thrown out of the Arab League for signing their treaty with Israel.
R – Anan, are you sure you wouldn't be a lot more comfortable at the Pakistani Defense forums or Stormfront? After all, you share most, if not all, of your talking points with them.
ARTILLERY
FOR
PEACE,
R
Posted by: Render at July 6, 2010 5:05 am
Anan - “Kudos to you for caring about our mutual Israeli friends. Please care about other people and other countries too.”
R - It's a sliding scale thing. Want to exterminate Jews? Go to the bottom of the scale.
“It would be really nice to see you expressing the same outrage about AQ linked attacks against Sufis, Shiites, Ahmedis, lesser Sunnis, as you do about attacks against Israeli civilians.”
R - I know you're not talking to me here...
“To be pro Israeli is to be pro Palestinian and pro Arab since 23% of Israeli citizens are non Jewish Palestinians and since about half of all Israeli citizens are Arabs [Arab Jews or non Jewish Arabs.]”
R - CIA world fact book says 23.6% of Israeli's is non-Jewish, it does not use the word “Palestinian” which means you got caught lying again Anan.
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/is.html
“Israel isn't an island. Israel can never be safe unless everyone else in the world is also safe from the Takfiri extremists.”
R - Yes, Israel is an island. An island of Jews surrounded by an ocean of bloodthirsty homicidal maniacs from the seventh century.
“Israel has to act in accordance with Israeli values and compensate the Palestinians for all Palestinian property confiscated paying below market prices, and to atone for all Israeli actions of omission and commission that have harmed Palestinians since 1947. Israel has to be true to itself.”
R - Right after every single Muslim nation that expelled its own Jews (where did you think all those Arab Jews came from?) compensates Israel for the trillions of dollars in cash, land, and property that those Muslim nations stole from the very people they expelled.
“Wanted to clarify why Israel should proudly identify itself as an Arab country. Not just as an Arab nation.”
R - No clarification needed. I'm certain we all know exactly what you mean.
“But also as a Jewish nation, a muslim nation, a high tech nation, an extremely diverse nation of immigrants from around the world, an atheist nation. A democratic nation. Israel is all of these things at the same time.”
R - No, Israel is a high tech democratic secular Jewish nation, formed mostly by Jewish people driven from their former homelands by people just like you Anan.
“Similarly, America is a Protestant nation. America is a Catholic nation. America is a Jewish nation. America is a muslim, Buddhist, Hindu and Sikh nation. America is an atheist nation. America is a free nation. America is a high tech nation. America is a German nation, an Irish nation, a Chinese nation, a Polish nation, a nation of many other cultures. America is all of these things at the same time. American leaders often proudly say that America is all of these things.”
R - That's why it's called “American exceptionalism.” Accept it or go home.
“Israel has 3 1/2 million Arab citizens [Perhaps 2 million being Arab Jews.] Why shouldn't Israel use this national asset to its fullest? Demand admission to the Arab League. Demand to be treated like a fellow Arab nation. To do this isn't to deny that Israel is a Jewish nation. Rather it is to proudly claim the rights and responsibilities that come with all aspects of Israel's heritage and inheritance.”
R - Probably because the Arab League under Nasser's control created the “Palestinian” problem all by themselves in 1964 in a failed effort to wipe out Israel, and as a group the Arab League has never accepted Israel's right to exist. Egypt was briefly thrown out of the Arab League for signing their treaty with Israel.
R – Anan, are you sure you wouldn't be a lot more comfortable at the Pakistani Defense forums or Stormfront? After all, you share most, if not all, of your talking points with them.
ARTILLERY
FOR
PEACE,
R
Rabbit,
I thought most Moroccan Jews were Sephardim, not Mizrachim. But ultimately it doesn't matter. Yids are Yids, as one Sephardi in my shul once told me. I did mention both Jewish communities in Iraq.
Posted by: Andrew Brehm at July 6, 2010 6:07 am
I thought most Moroccan Jews were Sephardim, not Mizrachim. But ultimately it doesn't matter. Yids are Yids, as one Sephardi in my shul once told me. I did mention both Jewish communities in Iraq.
Andrew,
here in Israel distinction between Mizrachim and Sephardim is invisible - at least, for us secular guys :) And we have here Yemenite families preparing gefilte fish and Ashkenazim eating moufletas on Mimouna :)
Posted by: rabbit256 at July 6, 2010 7:38 am
here in Israel distinction between Mizrachim and Sephardim is invisible - at least, for us secular guys :) And we have here Yemenite families preparing gefilte fish and Ashkenazim eating moufletas on Mimouna :)
What a shame that so many iranians have to be represented by this lunatic. In any case, I hope the Iranian opposition who so valiently fought in the streets last summer will have the guts to continue to denouce this thug and his cronies and will one day rise to overthrow this corrupt and criminal regime.
Posted by: Mason at July 6, 2010 7:59 am
Regarding the hyperbolic sewage that recently spewed from Ahmadinejad's mouth, I think that instead of wondering who those words were directed at--and if the recipients believe them or not--it's more important to consider if the speaker of those words and the regime he represents believes them.
I don't see anything in the regime's history since 1979 that leads me to believe that they don't believe what they say. They're actions go arm-and-arm with their rhetoric.
The Iranians are great at coning the West with regards to endless nuclear negotiations, but ultimately they don't really understand the West. They operate based off of a fundamentally flawed and paranoid understanding of the world and history, and that's what is so truly dangerous. Up until now the Iranians have done a good job of not "going Saddam," and by that I mean letting their flawed understanding of the world get them into some serious pickles (although these sanctions might prove to be a pickle, we'll see). But how long will this situation last? And how much more daring will the Iranians become once they have a nuclear weapon?
See Barry Rubin's recent at GLORIA Center: http://www.gloria-center.org/gloria/2010/07/containing-iran-requires-getting-smart-tough-serious
Posted by: semite5000 at July 6, 2010 8:01 am
I don't see anything in the regime's history since 1979 that leads me to believe that they don't believe what they say. They're actions go arm-and-arm with their rhetoric.
The Iranians are great at coning the West with regards to endless nuclear negotiations, but ultimately they don't really understand the West. They operate based off of a fundamentally flawed and paranoid understanding of the world and history, and that's what is so truly dangerous. Up until now the Iranians have done a good job of not "going Saddam," and by that I mean letting their flawed understanding of the world get them into some serious pickles (although these sanctions might prove to be a pickle, we'll see). But how long will this situation last? And how much more daring will the Iranians become once they have a nuclear weapon?
See Barry Rubin's recent at GLORIA Center: http://www.gloria-center.org/gloria/2010/07/containing-iran-requires-getting-smart-tough-serious
Hey Michael, you know any thing about this? ->StrategyPage: Update on hiker hostages
http://www.rantburg.com/poparticle.php?ID=300421&D=2010-07-06&SO=&HC=1
I haven't heard much about the hikers lately. By the way, can we use tags in these comments and will things change when you get to PJMedia?
Posted by: blackbear at July 6, 2010 8:25 am
http://www.rantburg.com/poparticle.php?ID=300421&D=2010-07-06&SO=&HC=1
I haven't heard much about the hikers lately. By the way, can we use tags in these comments and will things change when you get to PJMedia?
Rabbit,
I am a hobby linguist. For me the differences between Sephardim and Mizrachim are quite apparent in many cases. :)
Posted by: Andrew Brehm at July 6, 2010 8:40 am
I am a hobby linguist. For me the differences between Sephardim and Mizrachim are quite apparent in many cases. :)
Ya know, just this morning, while eating my multi-grain cheerios I said exactly the same thing, also something about a puppy farm.
Keep up the great reporting Mike.
Posted by: Bob from Virginia at July 6, 2010 9:45 am
Keep up the great reporting Mike.
Thank you, Render.
It is, by the way, possible to yank on anand's chains, as above. Heh.
MJT,
"...it takes real nerve for a ruthless tyrant to describe any American president as the world's harshest dictator..."
I unsurprisingly agree that mahmoud ahmadinejad is a ruthless tyrant and that no American President has ever been the world's harshest dictator. However, it seems to me that he truly and sincerely believes what he says. Therefore it doesn't take quite so much nerve for him to say it. He lives in a different mental universe. That universe is twelver shiism.
Posted by: del at July 6, 2010 12:50 pm
It is, by the way, possible to yank on anand's chains, as above. Heh.
MJT,
"...it takes real nerve for a ruthless tyrant to describe any American president as the world's harshest dictator..."
I unsurprisingly agree that mahmoud ahmadinejad is a ruthless tyrant and that no American President has ever been the world's harshest dictator. However, it seems to me that he truly and sincerely believes what he says. Therefore it doesn't take quite so much nerve for him to say it. He lives in a different mental universe. That universe is twelver shiism.
Simplicity from way outside here, but I see a frustrated tyrant deflecting and projecting. No one getting their way needs to expend energy this way. I recall Hitler's tirade after Berlin was bombed by those "night gangsters" (while he was bombing London.)
Posted by: Paul S. at July 6, 2010 4:29 pm
MJT -
I think it's finally time to boot anan. He hasn't had anything new to say for as long as I've been reading your blog. It's the same duplicitous bullshit every single time, and it reeks of dissimulationist agitprop with every lie and moronic assertion.
We get it already.
Please, end it.
.
Posted by: Li'l Mamzer at July 6, 2010 6:36 pm
I think it's finally time to boot anan. He hasn't had anything new to say for as long as I've been reading your blog. It's the same duplicitous bullshit every single time, and it reeks of dissimulationist agitprop with every lie and moronic assertion.
We get it already.
Please, end it.
.
Ignoring him achieves a similar result, like more of us do with the MSM.
Posted by: Paul S. at July 6, 2010 7:04 pm
Spouting nonsense comes with no requirement I pay it attention.
Posted by: Paul S. at July 6, 2010 7:06 pm
I disagree. Such egregiously vile propaganda must be countered each time it appears, lest others not as well informed misconstrue silence for assent and accept it at its false face value.
Render performed a Yeoman's service fisking anan's heinous and execrable taqqiya, in a most comprehensive and meticulous manner. I tip my hat to him.
Posted by: Salamantis at July 6, 2010 7:56 pm
Render performed a Yeoman's service fisking anan's heinous and execrable taqqiya, in a most comprehensive and meticulous manner. I tip my hat to him.
I appreciate your perspective, Salamantis, as I do Render's persistence; education is critical. As is critical thinking, the crucial, indispensable component in rational discourse.
We could spend our lives and our energy countering false assertions and emotional beliefs from the likes of anan; it's a bottomless pit. Better to aim, with laser focus, at what's accurate. That's education that better uses, not just distracts and dissipates our energy. Overwhelm ignorance with fact-based truth. And encourage everyone to sort it out for themselves.
Posted by: Paul S. at July 6, 2010 8:57 pm
We could spend our lives and our energy countering false assertions and emotional beliefs from the likes of anan; it's a bottomless pit. Better to aim, with laser focus, at what's accurate. That's education that better uses, not just distracts and dissipates our energy. Overwhelm ignorance with fact-based truth. And encourage everyone to sort it out for themselves.
Full disclosure...
Sal knows me, and has been on the receiving end of just such persistence. (salute Sal and well met)
===
Paul - There's only one of me, so I pick and choose my targets with some care.
RED
DOTS,
R
Posted by: Render at July 7, 2010 4:46 am
Sal knows me, and has been on the receiving end of just such persistence. (salute Sal and well met)
===
Paul - There's only one of me, so I pick and choose my targets with some care.
RED
DOTS,
R
Has anyone noticed the comments of the Ambassador from the UAE to the US Yousef al-Otaiba?
Basically, he is saying that he would support a military attack on Iran as there is no way he can see that any other policy would be effective in preventing Iran from obtaining nuclear weapons and that a nuclear Iran was unacceptable.
The article is by Eli Lake in the Washington Times and quotes the ambassador.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/jul/6/uae-ambassador-endorses-bombing-irans-nuclear-prog/print/
Posted by: crosspatch at July 7, 2010 9:01 am
Basically, he is saying that he would support a military attack on Iran as there is no way he can see that any other policy would be effective in preventing Iran from obtaining nuclear weapons and that a nuclear Iran was unacceptable.
The article is by Eli Lake in the Washington Times and quotes the ambassador.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/jul/6/uae-ambassador-endorses-bombing-irans-nuclear-prog/print/
The "money quote" is:
Wow. I never expected to hear that said in public.
Posted by: crosspatch at July 7, 2010 9:02 am
"I think it's a cost-benefit analysis," Mr. al-Otaiba said. "I think despite the large amount of trade we do with Iran, which is close to $12 billion … there will be consequences, there will be a backlash and there will be problems with people protesting and rioting and very unhappy that there is an outside force attacking a Muslim country; that is going to happen no matter what."
"If you are asking me, 'Am I willing to live with that versus living with a nuclear Iran?,' my answer is still the same: 'We cannot live with a nuclear Iran.' I am willing to absorb what takes place at the expense of the security of the U.A.E."
Wow. I never expected to hear that said in public.
crosspatch, not surprising. It is widely known that the six Arab countries favor stopping the Iranian nuclear program. Here is a question for anyone who wants to answer it:
Why don't the Gulf States collectively bomb Iran's nuclear program? Why are they using Israel as a proxy? Khamanei nukes are a bigger threat to them, arguably, than they are to Israel.
Posted by: anan at July 7, 2010 10:44 am
Why don't the Gulf States collectively bomb Iran's nuclear program? Why are they using Israel as a proxy? Khamanei nukes are a bigger threat to them, arguably, than they are to Israel.
Anan: Why are they using Israel as a proxy?
Do you really need someone to explain that to you? Really?
I'll give a hint: One million killed in the Iran-Iraq war.
Posted by: Michael J. Totten at July 7, 2010 10:46 am
Do you really need someone to explain that to you? Really?
I'll give a hint: One million killed in the Iran-Iraq war.
Anan: Why are they using Israel as a proxy?
Do you really need someone to explain that to you? Really?
I'll give a hint: One million killed in the Iran-Iraq war.
boot
Posted by: Li'l Mamzer at July 7, 2010 12:18 pm
Do you really need someone to explain that to you? Really?
I'll give a hint: One million killed in the Iran-Iraq war.
boot
Anand,
You are such a putz!!
Posted by: jb at July 7, 2010 12:48 pm
You are such a putz!!
Obama Messiah could threaten untold damage on Iran if Iran retaliates against the Gulf States. Destroy the Iranian air force for one thing.
Even if the Chosen One chooses not to do that, the Gulf Arab air forces, at least on paper, could decimate Iran's air force and air defense systems within a week. Wouldn't be hard to do. Once that is done, the Gulf Air forces could destroy Iran's navy and do all the rest. How could Iran possibly retaliate?
India, China, Japan, South Korea, ASEAN, NATO and Israel would all favor the Gulf Arabs in this war, if only because they are all so dependent on oil imports from the Gulf States. Iraq would also sympathize with the Gulf States against Iran.
Knowing all this, might Khamanei do what Syria did after the last Israeli bombing? In other words, nothing?
I have asked this question before to the mil crowd. The consensus generally is that Gulf Arab pilots and technical abilities [to actually use their anti radar and anti air defense software] are awful and they know it.
Might be a good idea to ask this question at:
http://www.defencetalk.com/forums/air-force-aviation/
Posted by: anan at July 7, 2010 1:10 pm
Even if the Chosen One chooses not to do that, the Gulf Arab air forces, at least on paper, could decimate Iran's air force and air defense systems within a week. Wouldn't be hard to do. Once that is done, the Gulf Air forces could destroy Iran's navy and do all the rest. How could Iran possibly retaliate?
India, China, Japan, South Korea, ASEAN, NATO and Israel would all favor the Gulf Arabs in this war, if only because they are all so dependent on oil imports from the Gulf States. Iraq would also sympathize with the Gulf States against Iran.
Knowing all this, might Khamanei do what Syria did after the last Israeli bombing? In other words, nothing?
I have asked this question before to the mil crowd. The consensus generally is that Gulf Arab pilots and technical abilities [to actually use their anti radar and anti air defense software] are awful and they know it.
Might be a good idea to ask this question at:
http://www.defencetalk.com/forums/air-force-aviation/
"I pick and choose my targets with some care."
Render,
A professor told me once that his Jewish mom's advice to him was to save his energy for the battles that matter.
Sure is a target-rich environment, isn't it?
Posted by: Paul S. at July 7, 2010 5:12 pm
Render,
A professor told me once that his Jewish mom's advice to him was to save his energy for the battles that matter.
Sure is a target-rich environment, isn't it?
Paul - I'm pretty sure that's a standard line from the Jewish mom's handbook (I heard it too). At some point or another, all the battles begin to matter, at least a little bit.
The odds favor grapeshot and duct tape on the triggers.
FOUGASSE,
R
Posted by: Render at July 7, 2010 11:59 pm
The odds favor grapeshot and duct tape on the triggers.
FOUGASSE,
R
Post a comment
