June 25, 2010

That’s One Way to Stop the Blockade Runners

So the Israelis have figured out a way to stop their enemies from trying to run the blockade of Gaza. From here on out, it seems they will confiscate any ships that make an attempt.

Iran said the June 27 departure of a ship carrying aid to the Gaza Strip has been canceled because of Israel’s vow to prevent Iranian and Lebanese vessels from breaching its blockade of the Palestinian enclave.

“The Zionist regime has made sending aid to Gaza a political issue,” Hossein Sheikholeslam, head of the Iranian agency to support Palestinians, was cited as saying by the state-run Islamic Republic News Agency late yesterday.

He referred to Israel’s warning to the United Nations that it may take military action to prevent ships from reaching Gaza. “In order not to give the Zionist regime an excuse, we will send the aid through other routes and without Iran’s name,” said Sheikholeslam, a former lawmaker and diplomat.


“The costs of sending aid to Gaza has increased,” Sheikholeslam said. “As Israel has said it will confiscate ships, no company is prepared to rent their vessels.”

Posted by Michael J. Totten at June 25, 2010 9:05 PM
Of course, if Gaza really was the poor & starving apartheid concentration death camp Islamists make it out be, surely they'd value the lives of thousands of their brothers in Islam more than a few paltry seagoing vessels?
Posted by: Squires at June 25, 2010 9:29 pm
Wait... you mean there are other established routes to send aid? It's almost like breaking the blockade has nothing to do with humanitarian issues, or something.
Posted by: jvon at June 26, 2010 3:32 am
It's almost like the threat of force gets results, or something.
Posted by: Nate at June 26, 2010 3:51 am
“The costs of sending aid to Gaza has increased,” Sheikholeslam said. “As Israel has said it will confiscate ships, no company is prepared to rent their vessels.”

Sheik Hole Slam?

I thought I heard Ahmedinejad say there were no homosexuals in Iran.

Posted by: Li'l Mamzer at June 26, 2010 8:49 am
As an aside (and I am no expert so I might be mistaken), is this essential correct and ironic?

British oil discovered and then invested lots of capital developing Iran oil. The central facts or self-evident questions (again, I might very well be mistaken):

Europe and the US kept Hitler and Stalin from making Iran a vassal.

The "experts" I have read suggest England was very fair in the sharing of profits by the standards of the day. After WW2 Persia at first willingly became a critical part of the Marshal Plan.

Had secular nationalists nationalized BP without compensation as was planned, yesteryear's G-20 would have embargoed Persia leaving only the Soviets capable of running Persian infrastructure. Stalin's tanks were knocking at the door.

And wasn't this threatened unilateral act by the Persian Parliament a violation of their Constitution?

Why was it illegal for the Shah to object to any nationalization that didn't include compensation when the Shah was sworn to defend Persia against the very enemy which the British and Americans were holding at bay?

Do today's Mullahs dispute their role in the coup given the choice between the Shah and the Soviets?

Eisenhower went along with England's plan which had the backing of the Mullahs and Persian generals who feared the Gulag more than the Dollar.

Now it's 2010. BP/Obama is opening up a rift regarding the Gulf spill as sanctions are in place to keep Iran from the bomb as USS Eisenhower sits in the Arabian Gulf waiting for the USS Truman.

The spiral of history?

I wonder what CH thinks about the historical irony...
Posted by: Maxtrue at June 26, 2010 10:41 am
Funny Mamzer and even gay friends would laugh at that one...
Posted by: Maxtrue at June 26, 2010 11:07 am
[...] Posted on June 26, 2010 by justquoting Via Michael J. Totten, Israel has quickly found a simple and effective way to deal with the flotillas. Bloomberg’s [...]
Posted by: Smarter Israel « The Daily Dishwater at June 26, 2010 11:29 am
Maxtrue: Funny Mamzer and even gay friends would laugh at that one...

Not that there's anything wrong with that.....
Posted by: Li'l Mamzer at June 26, 2010 11:50 am
And who suffers? The poor...
Posted by: Adam at June 26, 2010 1:09 pm
Adam: And who suffers? The poor...

Aid is allowed through the land crossings.
Posted by: Michael J. Totten at June 26, 2010 1:49 pm
Hamas, Hezbollah, the Taliban, al-Qaeda, etc. etc. etc., aren't interested in helping the poor. They're interested only in promising to help the poor, as a political ploy. Viz. Michael's Commentary article on June 10th.

The callow maneuvering backfired on the Islamists, badly, when they overplayed their hand last month.
Posted by: gus3 at June 26, 2010 2:22 pm
"I thought I heard Ahmedinejad say there were no homosexuals in Iran."

He didn't say anything about bestiality. Iran, where men are men and sheep are ... nervous.
Posted by: Gary Rosen at June 26, 2010 2:36 pm
Gary, if you're bored..... http://politics.usnews.com/opinion/mzuckerman/articles/2010/06/25/3-steps-to-stop-iran-from-getting-a-nuclear-bomb.html?msg=1

see comment thread...
Posted by: Maxtrue at June 26, 2010 2:42 pm
Gary Rosen,

You must be referring to some of khomeini's teachings about selling animals to the next village...

Posted by: del at June 26, 2010 2:51 pm
Gary Rosen: He didn't say anything about bestiality. Iran, where men are men and sheep are ... nervous.

Basically, any creature with at least one orifice somewhere needs to take one for the Prophet every now and then, I gather.
Posted by: Li'l Mamzer at June 26, 2010 4:06 pm
Del, Michael needs to add a corollary to his 6 stages of ISD. The sixth stage may also include some damage to virus spreaders themselves by over playing their hand.......
Posted by: Maxtrue at June 26, 2010 4:07 pm

One nexus of radical Islam and neo nazis..

There is a article there that had come up on Patton. If you can stomach looking, compare what Patton said with what McChrystal did. One can't even begin to compare....I guess ground reality is the measure of insubordination....Eisenhower kept his man so he could win a war faster...

Of course Patton was antisemitic and decided he had fought the wrong enemy.....

the assholes at Kentuckeybullcrap of course make his death a Jewish plot.....
Posted by: Maxtrue at June 26, 2010 4:41 pm
A favorite Patton quote:

"I don't give a damn about the color of your skin, just kill as many sons of bitches wearing green as you can."
Posted by: Paul S. at June 26, 2010 4:57 pm
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/fr/1174446/replies?c=40 ironically this is where the neo nazis drew their "facts" regarding Patton who they admired for his over the top racist views...

Quite intense..... http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/fr/1174446/replies?c=3
Posted by: Maxtrue at June 26, 2010 5:53 pm
Strange the rounds Iran's back down is getting...an unexpected clinical reaction to extreme ISD...

Posted by: Maxtrue at June 26, 2010 5:53 pm

Later Paul..quite a different take on Corinthians that you undoubtedly remember....
Posted by: Maxtrue at June 26, 2010 6:17 pm
General Patton awarded Dad his bronze star; I'll inherit the signed citation some day. Like a strutting peacock, Dad once said.
Posted by: Paul S. at June 26, 2010 6:52 pm
Well Paul, Patton also said this:

"The more I see of Arabs the less I think of them. By having studied them a good deal I have found out the trouble. They are the mixture of all the bad races on earth, and they get worse from west to east, because the eastern ones have had more crosses."
o Letter to Frederick Ayers (5 May 1943), published in The Patton Papers 1940-1945 (1996) edited by Martin Blumenson, p. 243

My Dad said he met Patton. I believe some of his "deliveries" involved reports from Patton's Command and Eisenhower's. Kudos to your Dad. We owe a lot to their sacrifice...let's hope we don't squander it now....
Posted by: Maxtrue at June 26, 2010 8:52 pm
Now 91, Dad, fighting to stay awake, helped keep supply vehicles running that fed Patton's troops.

There's much he only alludes to that is obviously painful for him to recall; Cologne was the worst he saw---and that's as much as he has ever said about it.
Posted by: Paul S. at June 26, 2010 9:36 pm
"let's hope we don't squander it now...."

"We have to nurse the next generation on some knowledge of the collective sacrifice of prior generations, otherwise the society won't understand what it gave up in the past to enjoy in the present."

Victor Davis Hanson
Posted by: Paul S. at June 26, 2010 9:46 pm
I am pasting the prior quote of "True Kurd" because I think he is onto something in terms of the flotillas. I would like Mr Kashlak to be in the crosshairs of interpol and our intelligence services

Yasser Kashlak is a Lebanese businessman from Palestinian descent born in Syria in 1971. Yasser Kashlak writes columns for a number of Lebanese papers and even publishes a little-known daily in Lebanon. He is known as an up and coming leader of the Palestinian refugees, with strong ties inside the Syrian regime, the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine, the Syrian Ba'ath Party and the Iranian Vice-President, Reza Mir Tajeddini. Yasser Kashlak has consistently opposed the peace process with Israel.

On 08/14/2009 Yasser Kashlak published a letter expressing support for Hassan Nasrallah, the Hizbullah leader in Lebanon. Yasser Kashlak is also helping to finance a Palestinian monitoring group which documents alleged violation of human rights by Jewish settlers in the Palestinian territories.

Since early 06/2010 Yasser Kashlak, heads the “Free Palestine Organization” and put himself openly behind a so called another humanitarian aid flotilla set to leave from Beirut to Gaza by late 06/2010. The voyage was announced less than a day after Hassan Nasrallah appealed for more flotillas to head for Gaza following the IHH - Charity flotilla to Gaza, on 05/31/2010. In an interview to the Lebanese Hizbullah owned Al-Manar TV channel, when asked if he does not fear that Israel will confiscate his ships, in a free translation from Arabic he said: The ships as well as many other ships from many flotillas yet to come will accumulate in Israeli harbors, and, with God will, we will, eventually, use them to send the Israelis back to the countries they came from in Europe and Poland. But even there we will go after them because of the crimes they did in Palestine.

One of the ships in the flotilla organized by Yasser Kashlak, the Mariam, is supposed to carry a group of 70 Muslim and Christian women, headed by Samar al-Hajj a former Lebanese journalist. Samar al-Hajj is also the wife of a high-ranking officer in the Lebanese security forces, Ali Hajj who served a four-year prison term for his involvement in the assassination of former Prime Minister Rafik Hariri, in 02/2005, and was released a year ago. International investigation proved that the assassination was a joint operation of segments in the Lebanese security services with one of the Syrian intelligence organizations (see also -Hague 03.01.09).

Samar al-Hajj has recently told the Arab media in an interview that she belongs to a group of women of all ethnic backgrounds who had bound together due to their common hatred of Israel.
Posted by: Herb at June 27, 2010 7:36 am
Wait... you mean there are other established routes to send aid? It's almost like breaking the blockade has nothing to do with humanitarian issues, or something.
Posted by: jvon at June 26, 2010 3:32 am

Do I detect a hint of sarcasm? :-)
Posted by: Steve W at June 27, 2010 8:03 am
Hamas, Hezbollah, the Taliban, al-Qaeda, etc. etc. etc., aren't interested in helping the poor. They're interested only in promising to help the poor, as a political ploy. Viz. Michael's Commentary article on June 10th.

The callow maneuvering backfired on the Islamists, badly, when they overplayed their hand last month.
Posted by: gus3 at June 26, 2010 2:22 pm

The Radical Loser
Hans Magnus Enzensberger looks at the kind of ideological trigger required to ignite the radical loser - whether amok killer, murderer or terrorist - and make him explode

The Islamists are as unconcerned about this as the Nazis were about the downfall of Germany. As the avant-garde of death, they have no regard for the lives of their fellow believers. In the eyes of the Islamists, the fact that most Muslims have no desire to blow themselves and others sky high only goes to show that they deserve no better than to be liquidated themselves. After all, the aim of the radical loser is to make as many other people into losers as possible. As the Islamists see it, the fact that they are in the minority can only be because they are the chosen few.
Posted by: Steve W at June 27, 2010 8:08 am
Don't you mean cross-hairs of our gun sights?
Posted by: Maxtrue at June 27, 2010 8:24 am
a must read on Turkey by Dr Andrew Bostom

"Mas Kom Ya" Erdogan and His Ur Jew-Hatred

Just over 35 years ago, in 1974, Erdogan, while serving as president of the Istanbul Youth Group of his mentor, former Prime Minister Necmettin Erbakan’s National Salvation Party, wrote, directed, and played the leading role in a theatrical play entitled Maskomya, staged throughout Turkey during the 1970s. Mas-Kom-Ya was a compound acronym for “Masons-Communists-Yahudi”—the latter of course “Jews”—and the play focused on the evil, conspiratorial nature of these three entities whose common denominator was Judaism.

More recently, when the wildly popular, most expensive film ever made in Turkey Valley of the Wolves (released February, 2006) included a “cinematic motif” which featured an American Jewish doctor dismembering Iraqis supposedly murdered by American soldiers in order to harvest their organs for Jewish markets, Prime Minister Erdogan not only failed to condemn the film, he justified its production and popularity.

On August 28, 2007, the same day that Abdullah Gul became Turkey's President – replacing his secular predecessor, and further consolidating the ruling Islamic AK (Adalet ve Kalkınma) Party's (AKP) hold on power -- MEMRI published excerpts from a chilling interview given by Erdogan’s mentor, former Prime Minister Necmettin Erbakan. The interview originally aired July 1, 2007, as part of Erbakan's campaign efforts in support of Islamic fundamentalist political causes before the general elections of July 22, 2007, and the AKP's resounding popular electoral victory over its closest "secularist" rival parties.

Erbakan, founder of the fundamentalist Islamic Milli Gorus (National Vision; originated 1969) movement, mentored current AKP leaders President Gul, and Prime Minister Erdogan, both of whom were previously active members of Erbakan's assorted fundamentalist political parties, serving in mayoral, ministerial, and parliamentary posts. The IHH—whose violent operatives featured prominently in the Mavi Maramara Antisemitic incitement, and subsequent bloodshed—has its origins in this same Orthodox Islamic Milli Görüş movement. During Erbakan's pre-election 2007 campaign stops before throngs of tens of thousands of supporters throughout Anatolia (including cities such as Trabzon, Elazig, and Konya), as well as cosmopolitan Ankara and Istanbul, he reiterated the same virulently Antisemitic statements captured in the July 1 interview, and other interviews.

These interviews and more expansive speeches were rife with allusions to Zionists/Jews (deliberately conflated), as "bacteria," and "disease," conspiring to dominate the contemporary Islamic world (“from Morocco to Indonesia”), as they had attempted unsuccessfully during the 11th and 12th centuries when Jews purportedly “organized” the Crusades, only to be stopped by the Turk's/Erbakan's Seljuk “forefathers.” Ultimately, Erbakan claimed, modern Jews/Zionists wished to establish “a world order where money and manpower are dependent on [them].”

For over thirty years, Necmettin Erbakan a former chairman of the fundamentalist National Salvation Party, and its numerous offshoots, have represented the most significant examples of Turkish Muslim political organizations exploiting systematized anti-Jewish, anti-Zionist bigotry. Erbakan's ascension to Deputy Prime Minister in January, 1974, was marked by Pan-Islamic overtures, along with increasingly strident verbal violence against Jews, Zionism, and the State of Israel emanating from the National Salvation Party's organs, especially its daily Milli Gazete (The National Newspaper), published in Istanbul since January 12, 1973.

The modern fundamentalist Islamic movement Erbakan founded has continued to produce the most extreme strain of antisemitism extant in Turkey, and traditional Islamic motifs, i.e., frequent quotations from the Koran and Hadith, remain central to this hatred, nurtured by early Islam's basic animus towards Judaism. Milli Gazete published articles in February and April of 2005, for example, which were toxic amalgams of ahistorical drivel, and virulently antisemitic and anti-dhimmi Koranic motifs, including these protoypical comments based upon Koran 2:61/ 3:112:

In fact no amount of pages or lines would be sufficient to explain the Qur'anic chapters and our Lord Prophet's [Muhammad's] words that tell us of the betrayals of the Jews... The prophets sent to them, such as Zachariah and Isaiah, were murdered by the Jews...

The April 2005 edition of the monthly Aylik, produced by a Turkish jihadist organization which claimed responsibility for the November 15, 2003 dual synagogue bombings in Istanbul, contained 18 pages of antisemitic material. An article written by Cumali Dalkilic entitled, "Why Antisemitism?", combined traditional Koranic antisemitic motifs with Nazi antisemitism, and Holocaust denial. Another article's title repeats the commonplace, if very pejorative Turkish Muslim characterization of Jews, “Tschifit,” which translates as "filthy Jews" (a pejorative term for Jews whose usage was recorded by the European travelers Carsten Niebuhr in 1794, and Abdolonyme Ubicini in 1856, based upon their visits to Ottoman Turkey), i.e., "The Tschifits [The Filthy Jews] Castle."

Bat Ye'or published a remarkably foresighted 1973 analysis (first translated into English here) of the Islamic Antisemitism resurgent in her native Egypt, and being packaged for dissemination throughout the Muslim world. The primary, core Antisemitic motifs were Islamic, derived from Islam's foundational texts, on to which European, especially Nazi elements were grafted.

The pejorative characteristics of Jews as they are described in Muslim religious texts are applied to modern Jews. Anti-Judaism and anti-Zionism are equivalent-due to the inferior status of Jews in Islam, and because divine will dooms Jews to wandering and misery, the Jewish state appears to Muslims as an unbearable affront and a sin against Allah. Therefore it must be destroyed by Jihad. Here the Pan-Arab and anti-Western theses that consider Israel as an advanced instrument of the West in the Islamic world, come to reinforce religious anti-Judaism. The religious and political fuse in a purely Islamic context onto which are grafted foreign elements. If, on the doctrinal level, Nazi influence is secondary to the Islamic base, the technique with which the Antisemitic material has been reworked, and the political purposes being pursued, present striking similarities with Hitler's Germany. [emphasis added]

That anti-Jewish opinions have been widely spread in Arab nationalist circles since the 1930s is not in doubt. But their confirmation at [Al] Azhar [University] by the most important authorities of Islam enabled them to be definitively imposed, with the cachet of infallible authenticity, upon illiterate masses that were strongly attached to religious traditions. [emphasis added]
Erbakan's recent statements are vivid evidence of the fulminant Antisemitism his popular movement has imbued, including amongst Turkey's current ruling elites, who never criticize such pronouncements by their mentor. Indeed current Prime Minister Erdogan amplifies this bigoted, Antisemitic discourse which resonates among the masses, illustrating graphically the same phenomenon described so presciently 37 years ago by Bat Ye’or about her native Egypt: sequentially grafting on to a learned foundation of Antisemitic motifs from Islam's core texts, modern secular Western European elements, especially those associated with Nazism.

Rifat Bali, a Turkish historian, and Jew, made a passionate indictment of Turkey's tacit acceptance of Antisemitism, published soon after the November 15, 2003 Istanbul synagogue bombings. The singularly courageous Bali, decried first and foremost, Prime Minister Recep Tayip Erdogan's and his AKP government's abject failure to publicly denounce both the Antisemitic discourse of the fundamentalist Islamic movement from which Erdogan emerged, and which he claimed later to have abandoned, and those (like Erdogan's mentor Necmettin Erbakan, for example) insistent on perpetuating such public discourse. With bitter disbelief, Bali further noted the near unanimously shared, albeit counterfactual view, of a respected Turkish columnist, published (in Milliyet November 17, 2003) within two days of the bombings, who maintained that, “...there has never been Antisemitism in Turkey in its racist or religious sense.”

The opportunity for honest discussion was squandered by every domain of Turkish society, not only politicians, but also media and intellectual elites. Moreover, a profoundly depressing example of collective Jewish dhimmitude was on ignominious display: the Chief Rabbi, as well as the secular leaders in his entourage representing the voice of Turkey's Jewish community, even the Israeli government, as Bali observes,

...all seemed determined to ignore...[rather than] to confront face to face the Antisemitism which is incorporated in the political Islamic movement...[i.e., which currently governs Turkey].Bali further admonished the Erdogan regime to live up to its professed support of equality for Jews within Turkish society: Turkey's Jews are not dhimmis in need of the tolerance and the protection of the Muslim majority. They are citizens of the Republic of Turkey.[emphasis added]

Perhaps ceasing this disgraceful and delusional behavior starts by putting an end to the hagiography of Jewish life under Ottoman rule -- including Jews living within Istanbul's ghettoes, and Ottoman Palestine – and using precise terms that describe this half-millennium of history, appropriately and accurately: jihad, surgun (forced population transfer), and chronic dhimmitude. There was nothing “humanitarian” whatsoever in the Ottomans accepting a relatively modest number of Jewish refugees from the Inquisition – far greater numbers were accepted in other parts of Europe itself. Indeed the vacuum created for these skilled Jewish refugees whom the Ottomans re-settled in their burgeoning Empire was created by the Ottoman jihad conquest of Byzantine and Venetian territories and their Jewish populations, i.e., Jews who were subjected to the Ottoman jihad, including massacre, pillage, enslavement, forced conversion, and surgun deportation.

Also one cannot get lost in comforting happy talk and ignore the chronic, grinding Antisemitism, and vestiges of dhimmitude to which the Jews in Turkey have been subjected throughout the history of modern Republican Turkey-including the large, government organized Thracian pogroms of 1934, and the blatantly discriminatory, deliberately pauperizing varlik vergisi taxation scheme and subsequent deportations of Jewish business leaders to "Turkish Siberia," during World War II (WWII). This ongoing discrimination contributed to the rapid exodus of 40% of Turkey's Jews after WWII to Israel within 2 years of its creation, followed by the steady, continuous attrition of the Turkish Jewish population – their departure accelerating again after the notorious Istanbul pogrom against Greeks, Armenians, and Jews in 1955—so that only 17,000 (or fewer) of Turkey's 77, 000 post-WWII Jews remain.

Joseph Hacker's seminal research highlights the 1523 book of the Talmudist Eliyah Kapsali (Seder Eliyah Zuta, composed in Crete), and its embellishment by the 17th century Egyptian chronicler Rabbi Yosef Sambari (in Sambari's Divrei Yosef)-rather crudely redacted narratives which became the version accepted by modern historiography of the history of the Jews in the Ottoman Empire:

...the sürgün [forced population transfer] phenomenon and all its attendant [discriminatory] features features was not considered at all. If the sürgün was mentioned at all in the writings of the [Jewish] scholars of the Empire, it was held to be an insignificant, indecisive episode in the history of the Jews. The relations between Jews and Ottomans were thus felt to be both idyllic and monotonous from their very inception, no distinction being made either between kinds of Jewish populations or between one period and another throughout the fifteenth and sixteenth centuries.

Kapsali conceals all criticism and tries to cover up and obliterate inconvenient facts...This is also apparently the reason for his utterly ignoring the Romaniot [Byzantine] Jews and their fate at the time of the conquest of Constantinople, and of the suffering of the others exiled there after the conquest.

The 16th century dhimmi Jewish leadership's deliberate misrepresentation of the actual plight of Ottoman Jewry was described by Hacker with obvious contempt. Inexcusably, this pathological behavior persists five centuries later among contemporary Jewish leadership elites, who appear incapable of identifying, let alone adequately defending against, the resurgence of jihadist Islam in Turkey. Gifted writer Diana West's evocative language depicts the ultimate outcome if this self-destructive dhimmitude is not reversed: “in denial there is defeat.”

Tragically, the contemporary leadership of the Turkish Jewish community, Israel, and American Jewish advocacy groups never mustered the intellectual courage to overcome their own craven denial. Collectively galvanized, several years ago, they might have confronted Erdogan's AKP government over the ugly living legacy of anti-dhimmi and Antisemitic discrimination against Turkey's Jews, and demanded immediate efforts at amelioration of their plight: marginalization and legal punishment of Turkish politicians and public intellectuals whose discourse incites Jew-hatred, and potentially, anti-Jewish violence; the implementation of concrete reforms, ensuring in practice equal rights, opportunities, and public safety for Jews. And they should have demanded, further, that if all these measures were not implemented rapidly, with tangible evidence of success, Turkey's Jews would be allowed unfettered, mass emigration without any economic penalties.

Such bold, forthright action – joint “anti-dhimmitude” – could have put an end to the ongoing phenomenon of a vestigial de facto dhimmi Jewish community of Turkey (via its dhimmi leadership) holding Israel, and American Jews hostage to the whims of an oppressive Turkish government, in the throes of a transformative fundamentalist Islamic revival. But nothing of the sort was ever done.

Thus a Turkish Jew, Albert Pinto—illustrating modern Jewish dhimmitude, denial, and raw “fear for their lives” in Turkey as Muslims “take to the street in growing numbers against Israel”—reportedly stated, referring to the slain IHH jihadists aboard the Mavi Maramara,

What we are hearing in the media is not pleasant. Why did they kill those people? They were nice people who simply wished to help.

More ominously, resurgent jihadism in Turkey manifest by the ruling AKP party, and its popular leader Erdogan, now brazenly espouses Antisemitic hatred, and focuses this animus on the Jewish State of Israel
Posted by: Herb at June 27, 2010 9:38 am

Assad and Chavez.....together at last.
Posted by: Maxtrue at June 27, 2010 12:50 pm

Posted by: Maxtrue at June 27, 2010 12:52 pm

Are you trying to say that drivers in Saudi don't earn their tips?
Posted by: Patrick S Lasswell at June 27, 2010 1:05 pm
They certainly earn their nips...
Posted by: Maxtrue at June 27, 2010 2:05 pm

Who turns off Gaza electricity?
Posted by: Maxtrue at June 27, 2010 2:13 pm
Nice to see that Andy (Bostom) has improved his historical research.

Too bad he didn't use the same due diligence regarding Vlaams Belang and the Muslim Waffen SS divisions.

Posted by: Render at June 27, 2010 2:22 pm
"Assad and Chavez.....together at last."

Wow, there was an opportunity to kill two birds with one stone, so to speak.
Posted by: Gary Rosen at June 27, 2010 2:39 pm
“The Zionist regime has made sending aid to Gaza a political issue”

This was a very funny line.
Posted by: urbano at June 27, 2010 3:07 pm
"Chutzpa" is such a great term. Thanks to Leo Rosten for "The Joys of Yiddish." Not on your shelf? It deserves to be:

I love this one: "'Chutzpa' is that quality enshrined in a man (or a regime...) who, having killed his mother and father, throws himself on the mercy of the (international) court because he is an orphan."

Sarcastic parens mine, of course.
Posted by: Paul S. at June 27, 2010 4:52 pm
You're funny....

Posted by: Maxtrue at June 27, 2010 4:54 pm
Posted by: Maxtrue at June 27, 2010 5:00 pm
I agree with Gary; if Hugo, Bashir and friends want to create a target-rich environment...
Posted by: Paul S. at June 27, 2010 5:04 pm

Russians act surprised? Well at least they seem to be playing along....as Obama made a Russian target a declared international terrorist....
Posted by: Maxtrue at June 27, 2010 8:20 pm

Oliver Stone, I hope you're happy. Fallon should have asked, "Hey dick head, love the Saddam look."

While waxing nice about Chavez, Syone remarked to Jimmy Friday night how fun it was chomping on Cocoa leaves with Morales. What century are we in? Of course, soon we will all be asking why nobody noticed Hizb'Allah in Mexico.

I just can't wait to vote..
Posted by: Maxtrue at June 27, 2010 8:28 pm
Render, we use what we can. For our purposes, Bostom is our useful idiot.

Yes, Bostom, two can play that game....

(will check email...sorry)
Posted by: Maxtrue at June 27, 2010 8:30 pm

A speaking of Iran in SA, they must love "conditions of opportunity".

Now Iran says their flotilla is back on....
Posted by: Maxtrue at June 27, 2010 8:43 pm
[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Sarah Leah , Solomon Kleinsmith. Solomon Kleinsmith said: #Isreal to confiscate future ships trying to run blockade - http://is.gd/d4s4E (follow 4 #indy / #centrist #politics #news ) [...]
Posted by: Tweets that mention Michael J. Totten -- Topsy.com at June 27, 2010 10:30 pm
"why nobody noticed Hizb'Allah in Mexico"

It wouldn't surprise me if Mexicans already have.

Let's prepare an appropriate Lone Star welcome...
Posted by: Paul S. at June 27, 2010 10:42 pm
As Bob Barker might have said on "The Price Is Right," "Come on down, Hezbi!"
Posted by: Paul S. at June 27, 2010 10:49 pm
Humor is an antidote to madness, or at least maintains sanity in the face of it.
Posted by: Paul S. at June 27, 2010 10:50 pm
I remember when Alec Baldwin and Susan Sarandon said they'd leave the country if President Bush were re-elected. Hugo's wine cellar not impressive enough?
Posted by: Paul S. at June 27, 2010 11:27 pm
Well back to the serious...



It is a shame his next job isn't going what he knows best.
Posted by: Maxtrue at June 28, 2010 3:28 am

Egypt blocks Iran in the Suez....
Posted by: Maxtrue at June 28, 2010 3:43 am
"Egypt blocks Iran in the Suez...."

I doubt it very much. This can be construed as an act of war and Egyptian already paid twice for this king of action. If Iranians will decide to push Egypt will let them through.
Posted by: leo at June 28, 2010 4:35 am
Leo the article says what it says. In addition, several sources have said the Saudis are giving Israel a logistics base in their country in prep for an attack on Iran.

Meanwhile Hamas continues its bullshit... http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/meast/06/28/gaza.summer.camp.attack/index.html

coffee and work....later
Posted by: Maxtrue at June 28, 2010 4:38 am
Lol. Ive been following this whole flotilla debacle, and man are your team, the Israelis loosing. The flotilla was never about humanitarian aid only, it was a political protest against one countrys right to blockade another people. And those guys who fought the commandos did so willingly, in order to get the point across into the world media, wich unfortunately needs blood as a price for attention. This awas a open play, and it worked 100%. Propably beyond their expectations, because the damn Israelis hurried up and branded these folks as terrorists, gave the commandos medals, refused to even consider state to state discussions, in short did everything within their powers to make the situation worse.

Now, Israel is going to continue this policy, just as it is going to start building in East Jerusalem, just as it will continue to protect settlers who do violence against palestinians, just as it will continue to occupy Hebron on behalf of 500 religious loonies. Lieberman will continue to want to kick out his arab citizens. And their defense will continue to be that "Sudan is worse" and "Everybody is anti-semite" and "Obama is a secret muslim". Wich will work within its increasingly dwindling base of Palin-republicans and the homefront.

But its a deathsentence for the state of Israel I think. Its like cancer denial. It will be interesting to see if the settlement-freeze is extended.
Posted by: Fnord at June 28, 2010 4:55 am
Obviously not following it closely enough Fnord....

nor American politics...
Posted by: Maxtrue at June 28, 2010 5:52 am
Those "damn Israelis" were right. Those "folks" were terrorists, long before the Israeli's pointed that fact out.

The IDF commando mission was an unqualified success (all ships interned, no Israelis murdered).

Gee Fnord, you just can't wait to exterminate half of the worlds remaining Jews, can you? You keep thinking...

Posted by: Render at June 28, 2010 8:52 am
Here Fnord,


....perhaps a better narrative you can believe in. It seems one of the clearest examples of Sharia meets socialism with the attendant hatred of capitalism, Libertarian notions of liberality and of course antisemitism.

This propels the Flotilla's rudder as well as this marvelous view from Hamas:


a cancer someone is in denial of? The items you pointed out (and not very accurate) pale beside the greater truth, yes?...

And tell me how this greater truth isn't a threat to US interests and others in the region?

No don't I back off to work...
Posted by: Maxtrue at June 28, 2010 9:31 am
you guys really dont do critical challenge do you? Ascribing genocidal motives to a counter analysis? Damn, you got one strong echo-chamber built into your head. I dont want to kill jews, I dont even want Israel to disappear. But the aggro generalissimo state that is emerging out of 2006 and 2008 is on a self-destructive path. In my opinion. Argue. Callingf me a jewkiller wannabe just makes you look like hysterics.

Im continualy shocked by the ease with wich pro-israel folks shrug off critiscism. May I suggest reading Col Patrick Langs piece at : http://www.mepc.org/journal_vol11/0406_lang.asp

Posted by: Fnord at June 28, 2010 9:58 am
Maxtrue: I deny that there is a "Greater Truth" and I do not buy into fantasies of a great monolithic muslim threat. Sorry. Know to many of them.
Posted by: Fnord at June 28, 2010 9:59 am
PPs: Having read that Socialist Workers piece, could you point out where sharia pops in? I cant see it mentioned in the piece at all. I usually dont agree with the freaking SW on anything, but that text was pretty sober and analytical. In adult language, can u pick it apart?
Posted by: Fnord at June 28, 2010 10:17 am
Here is yet another example of the mask slipping off Hamas and its bigoted face being revealed:

Militants attack U.N.-sponsored summer camp in Gaza


A group of 25 armed and masked men attacked and set fire to a U.N.-sponsored summer camp in Gaza on Monday morning, the U.N. Relief and Works Agency said.

Witnesses told CNN that militants tied up the guards at the camp before setting it on fire.

"UNRWA will remain unbowed and intimidated by these attacks," UNRWA Gaza spokesman Chris Gunnes said. "They are an attack on the happiness and the well-being of all children attending our games and an attack on our values."

Monday's attack was the second case of a summer camp set in fire in Gaza this year. In May, masked militants burned another U.N.-sponsored summer camp hours before it was due to open.

Gunnes said the camp attacked Monday would be rebuilt immediately and the organization's summer games -- which provide 1,200 summer camps for more than 250,000 refugee children across Gaza -- will continue.

In a statement, John Ging, director of the agency's Gaza operations, described the attacks as "cowardly and despicable."

"This is another example of the growing levels of extremism in Gaza and further evidence, if that were needed, of the urgency to change the circumstances on the ground that are generating such extremism," he said.

Witnesses of both summer camp attacks said the militants involved were Muslim extremists who apparently object to boys and girls going to camp together.
Posted by: Salamantis at June 28, 2010 10:30 am
Why would I waste my time? There is no greater truth than your own and a narrative that can make you feel good about that. Why would I debate you? Next you'll be telling the majority consensus merely reflects brain washing and that only Jews and Christian Fundies support Israel...

...and by the way, I didn't call YOU a Jew killer. I assume Render was implying you were their useful idiot.

I thought you would find people you could chat with at the link I left. Obviously Memri is not clear enough to reconsider. My abilities would be of no service to you, but hey....

..glad I could point you in the right direction....
Posted by: Maxtrue at June 28, 2010 10:42 am
Maxtrue: No, not only jews and christian fundies support Israel, and many of us support the Jewish people, even while not zionist. Thats why you should bother to argue sane, since a lot of folks read these comments. were sort of in a public space. Some of us talk cause and consequence instead of absolutist battles. Others spew talking points. And Im sorry, but getting accused of genocidal racist belief is just too freaking common when u try to engage the pro-Israelis in debate.

Dmn, I write with Spencer Ackerman.
Posted by: Fnord at June 28, 2010 11:04 am
You should consider writing for the socialist workers. Really dude, if you want to see facts and argument, read the threads.

There are always Post-Zionist to chat with. Now there's a header I haven't seen at Match.com

And I see Alan Grayson's face smiling at me at Ackerman....lol.
Posted by: Maxtrue at June 28, 2010 11:29 am
Just reqad the thread. And you folks have a serious lack of opposition if you want to be taken like serious people. I read Jpost, and the echo-chamber effect is one you folks want to beware off.
Posted by: Fnord at June 28, 2010 12:02 pm
Fnord -

Well aware of where and with whom you write. The Web never forgets and you have a history.

Absolutely unimpressed with Ackerman, Exum, or any of the other sadly misguided COIN mafia types.

"Those damn Israelis."

"But its a death sentence for the state of Israel I think. Its like cancer denial."

Those are your words Fnord, from this very thread. From a comment of yours that is both anti-Israel and pro-HAMAS in its tone and intent, as well as being fundamentally wrong on a number of points.

HAMAS, like al-Qaeda, is a faction of the Muslim Brotherhood, and is a genocidal terrorist organization bent on the extermination of all Jews, whether or not they are Israeli, ergo...


Judaism is not a race, it is a religion.

You do not know who the enemy is, you do not know who our allies are, and you are a newcomer in a war that is over five decades old. It is not an insurgency, it is a world wide war of extermination.

And you are moaning about “settlements?” Tell me, tell us all, Fnord, where is it that Jews can live in peace without the constant threats of and attempts at total extermination, without persecution for simply being Jewish? (And don't waste your time or ours with the Helen Thomas answer.)

That is why there is such a thing called Zionism Fnord, it is the sole reason.

You come waltzing in here with a sad mix of talking points from David Duke, Ron Paul, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, and the Muslim Brotherhood all crammed into one comment and then you squeal about other people's talking points?

Don't care if you have Jewish friends, so does Ahmadinejad (Neturei Karta). That means less then nothing and there is a word for such Jews, “kapo.”

And you can tell your Jewish friends I said so. My bloglet is linked in my name, if you or your friends want a piece of me you know where to find me.

Posted by: Render at June 28, 2010 12:27 pm
Render: If saying that a friend is doing too much coke for his own good equals hating that guy, then I follow your logic. If not, cut down on your hyperbole qand argue like a rational being? Show me one place on the nets I have been anti-semitic, as opposed to pretty disagreeing w zionists?

My take on the Nethanyahu gvmnt is that we are fast heading for international intervention. CNAS, etc. Good luck.
Posted by: Fnord at June 28, 2010 1:32 pm
The echo-chamber of what? The Socialist Workers? I think many of the comments here are a reaction to the "greater echo chamber" from Judt to Nasrallah. But yes, beyond your objective view there are no greater truths, no facts on the ground or motives. I haven't seen you offer anything but unfounded facts.

Not one word did you mention of the hypocrisy spewed by the promulgators of the Viva Palestinian crowd and their ideologues in the West. There recent rally in Turkey displayed the Nazi Flag. I showed you clear intent by the flotilla leaders, but that doesn't make you think. Well, I prefer an echo chamber of sorts than the reverberation of a large rectum skimmed at Memri. Instead you found the other link I left you more appealing like I knew you would. The logic that brought us the 9/11 truthers and the modern elders of Zion pushes their Palestinian Liberation Movement. Yep, you had no problems with the socialist worker position which isn't close to mainstream, so by what measure do you attack people here for living in an echo chamber? Really. What is your echo chamber? I've seen your words before. And you know where.

Did Erdogan tell Israel before the flotilla departed that there would be no planned violence? Did you refute the summary recently posted here by Bostom that Render commented on? Do you see any Islam is our eternal enemy here? By what right do you imply we all don't have Muslim or Arab friends? Seems like you rode in with an echo chamber of horse shit of your own trying to prod a response? A response to what? Don't videos by journalist on board show a planned effort by Turkish activists to attack the Israelis? Did Erdogan not know militants would board at a later stop by-passing security? So it is merely echo chamber logic to give such BS a place at the table of reason or a function of filtering our the distortion and deciding what to spend time on? Life is short you know.

Do you advocate giving creationists a seat at designing the curriculum of evolution in public schools? Does ABC have to have Judt on every night to counter stories from the Middle East?

Do you really need me to call your bluff? So again, your referring to Israel as some kind of third world South American dictatorshipissimo driven to screw peace having a chance is nonsense no matter the wrongs many here criticize Israel about doing. The greater injustice is that dictators and radicals have seats on the board of human rights. The greater truth is the slaughter of Muslims by Muslims. The greater truth is that Hamas has no present intention for peace. Even when you read the hate speech and declared enmity against Israel by the leaders of Hamas SHOWN TO YOU IN BLACK AND WHITE, you focus your knife against Israel. It is this inclination that your remarks reveal, not any desire for honest debate. So please spare me your pretense of objectivity. Socialist Workers.Org is calling......
Posted by: Maxtrue at June 28, 2010 1:46 pm
And by the way, "friends" don't approach each other the way you did. I suppose you usually dismiss the feelings of your friends, cloud the real hate directed at them and advise them to clean up their act in the face of declared terror. Yep, tell them its all their fault.

Again, maybe you could spare us the bullshit and get to your point? I can't imagine what it is.
Posted by: Maxtrue at June 28, 2010 1:53 pm
Fnord - I already have. Right here in this thread.

Rationally? It doesn't matter why they want to kill us (Jews) all. All that matters is that they do. That's not hyperbole, its blatant fact.

You really should consider a different debating style. Seeing as you've utterly ignored the primary question of my previous comment, perhaps you could tell us why you have this unnatural fixation on Israel?

CNAS needs the luck a lot more then I do. Losing both major theaters in a world war is bad for the credibility.

Posted by: Render at June 28, 2010 2:02 pm
"The responsibilities of any international mission
would necessarily extend beyond keeping
the peace between Israel and the new Palestinian
state to helping keep the peace within that state.
In many ways, this might turn out to be the more
demanding task. There would be few volunteers
for any peacekeeping mission to Palestine unless
it is based upon prior agreement, not just between
Israel and the Palestinian Authority, but also
between the two major contenders for power
in the new state, Fatah and Hamas – as well as
a clear invitation from all these parties to help
oversee implementation of these accords. Thus,
any Israeli/Palestinian peace would need to be
accompanied, if not preceded, by a Fatah/Hamas
peace if it is to have any prospect of sticking, and
if any multinational force is to be recruited to
help oversee its implementation." CNAS

LOl.....But of course I showed what Hamas has stated just a few days ago. The UN could not disarm Hizb'Allah. Afghanistan is slipping away. Pakistan's Taliban are causing trouble in Kyrgyzstan as Pakistanis grow to dislike their government. Iran murders or imprisons their dissenters. Hizb'Allah tried to murder government officials in Azerbaijan. Syria murders politicians it doesn't like in Lebanon. Turkey bombs Iraq. But against this far reaching historical reality involving strategic threats not of Zionist making, Israel is leading the ME to Armageddon. Brilliant. Just brilliant.
Posted by: Maxtrue at June 28, 2010 2:27 pm
Render, as an aside, I mentioned Obama's apparent working the US/Russian divide seemed to be moving in the right direction. I also had mentioned some suggestions involving kinetics. Seems the two just ran into each other..


hope is not necessarily reality...

I can almost smell what they were after...
Posted by: Maxtrue at June 28, 2010 3:08 pm
Max: Saw that. Something doesn't smell right. Actually, a bunch of it doesn't smell right.

The earliest reports mentioned eleven people. Briefly one of my feeds wasn't mentioning any numbers at all, but had 18 names listed, until that story was suddenly replaced with the ten-person story (mabad, I knew I shouldn't have refreshed that page without saving it).

Counter-intel doesn't usually work that way unless there is a known danger to leaving them loose and under surveillance - or a message to be sent to the Motherland.

Somewhere in the Kremlin somebody's head is rolling...

Posted by: Render at June 28, 2010 3:24 pm

For those who don't know Render's reference....
Posted by: Maxtrue at June 28, 2010 3:40 pm
Posted by: Maxtrue at June 28, 2010 3:51 pm

AQ in Gaza posting on YouTube......
Posted by: Maxtrue at June 28, 2010 3:58 pm

Supposedly there was no actual work done on low yield "nuclear" bunker busters in 2004 or otherwise. Note the call to obtain information before the Russian meeting with Obama.

Of course the Gateway to adventure in often near Coney Island. Ironically a top person with the Nets resigned because he thought "Boris and Natasha" were looking over his shoulder.
Posted by: Maxtrue at June 28, 2010 4:15 pm
Not a great day for Russia as their Spy story above hits the fan. And then there is this:

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE65R5WC20100628?type=politicsNews regarding

German halt of Russian orders to Iran and this:


On all these matters Obama's interest today instead focuses meeting immigration activists and plotting a course to best use the topic to help Democrats chances in November. No word on Shalit, SCOTUS ruling on guns, attacks on Gaza summer camps for kids, Hamas mortar shells fired at Israel, or the European snub to US economic plans.

As far as voices of reason speaking out in Turkey, there are still some: http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/n.php?n=iran-exploits-turkey8217s-navet-2010-06-28

The Strasser-Jihadist echo chamber is a house of cards....
Posted by: Maxtrue at June 28, 2010 5:24 pm
"Something doesn't smell right."

Must have stepped in some fnord.
Posted by: Gary Rosen at June 29, 2010 12:26 am
Fascinating. To start with the last question first: "perhaps you could tell us why you have this unnatural fixation on Israel?": I love the way of putting the question. Of course discussing this subject is a "unnatural fixation" in your eyes. I would say that Im with the good general Petraeus on this subject, because the narrative of the US/Israel alliance is directly detrimental to our efforts at wooing the hearts and minds of the arab world, the world we need to work with in order to achieve our main strategic goal of calming down the muslim populace. And further, Israel is a major partner of NATO, a member of the OECD, yet its government is actively sponsoring campaigns against the CiC of the western forces and in general trying as hard as it can to dismiss the policy concerns of others as evil and racist. Further, the Israeli official use of the term terrorism to describe some folks engaged in abrawl with IDF soldiers (who they didnt even try to kill) undermines the war on terror, making the term useless. And, since I know several palestinians personaly, I tend to get insulted by such obvious racism as the Jerusalem Post continually dishes out. Enough for ya? I could go on.

Maxtrue: Of course the turkish part of the flotilla wasnt pacifist. You thought the turks would accept boarding in international waters without fighting for their flag? And of course, some of those turks may be islamists and rather dubious personalities. That isnt the point. The point is that current Israeli policies handed them their victory, and then did everything it could to make that victory greater. I dont need to read Socialist Worker to see this, that a crude propaganda stunt suceeded beyond its wildest expectations because of the unwillingness of Israel to ever apologize, or even behave politely. They went and gave the commandoes medals after just a few days, thats like poking NATO member Turkey in the eye with a stick.

And this is part of a pattern. If you dont see the changes to Israeli diplomatic approach since the government change and worry, then I would posit that your echochamber is smaller than mine. And in considerable denial.
Posted by: Fnord at June 29, 2010 5:16 am
You really are quite dim Fnord. Or should I say, Fnord you are not: http://whatis.techtarget.com/definition/0,,sid9_gci212136,00.html

The US had been trying to woo the Arabs ever since Eisenhower. Now that didn't go very well. The Republicans began to break this mindset when the Saudis refused to chase the Iraqi air craft that attacked our ship in the Gulf and then as the result of later actions by Saddam. Not much of historian are you Fnord? But don't think I'm trying to debate you, I'm not.

Your selective "use" of the term terrorism and the complete absence of referring to the "terrorism" of the Muslim world against Israel, the moral equivalency thus implied and the denial of the words, statements, video tape involving the cast of the flotilla shown to you through various links indicate your feathers. "Some folks", "engaged in a brawl", makes the term "terror" or "war on terror" useless, not the boarding of the flotilla. Fnord: The Israel boarding of a ship (an action the US and international law justifies) and the subsequent attack in self defense makes the term terrorism useless. Perhaps in your mind. Do you read the crap you post? Do you expect anyone here or even mainstream opinion to buy into that distortion? On this foundation you bait to debate?

I show you blood libel (and I haven't even mentioned Valley of the Wolves yet) and you tell me you are upset by the racism your Palestinian friends sense in JPOST? You're kidding us, yes? Are you a complete asshole or just trying to simulate one? I know several Turks, Egyptians, Jordanians, some living on my block here in NYC and THEY ADMIT the hatred posted in the Muslim Press. The Turks fear where Turkey may stumble. The Palestinian Deli worker on the corner has a better grip of reality than you. He understands the term useful idiot.

Boarding the ship with paint ball guns, sliding down roped in cargo pants is hardly what EVERY FRIGGIN NAVAL EXPERT THAT I HAVE ASKED describes what the US Navy would have done including Patrick here at MJT. Ah, but your reasoning is part of a pattern reflecting the echo chamber of distortion. An echo chamber that connects what is wrong at the socialist workers with what is wrong in the radical mindset. I guess you are just a victim of an uncritical mentality. Oh, am I being unfair?

http://www.memritv.org/ (READ IT EINSTEIN)

Now I want you to post a link to ANYTHING (on the Israeli side) that comes close to refuting the actual words of those seeking to destroy Israel, inflame antisemitism and see that the US goes stumbling into the garbage along with its notion of Liberal Democracy. Show us all the palestinian peace plan. If you had wanted to discuss better ways the Israelis could evolve their policies as is often done here, you might have been taken seriously. Until you show some semblance of reason, spare me your load of disingenuous crap.
Posted by: Maxtrue at June 29, 2010 7:43 am
Fnord -

“Fascinating. To start with the last question first: "perhaps you could tell us why you have this unnatural fixation on Israel?": I love the way of putting the question.”

R - Unnatural in the sense that you don't seem to understand the goals of the enemy, even though they tell you those goals on a daily basis. Perhaps you should address the Norges Nasjonalsosialistiske Bevegelse instead?

“Of course discussing this subject is a "unnatural fixation" in your eyes.”

R - There are only 13 million of us, surely there must be some other population group to fixate on.

“I would say that Im with the good general Petraeus on this subject...”

R - I would say you're a lot closer to David Duke and Ahmadinejad then you are to General Petraeus.

“...because the narrative of the US/Israel alliance is directly detrimental to our efforts at wooing the hearts and minds of the arab world, the world we need to work with in order to achieve our main strategic goal of calming down the muslim populace.”

R - I don't subscribe to the “Arab world” theory and never have. Not when the Persians, Turks, and Baluch are involved. I don't subscribe to the “Muslim populace” theory either. At best that “tiny minority” of Muslims who are dedicated Jew haters is around ten to twenty percent (of 1.2 billion). If our strategic goal really is “calming down” that ten to twenty percent then that goal is fatally flawed from the start. They will never be calm as long as there is even one Jew left on the planet. They say so on a regular basis, they've been saying it quite openly for over fifty years, it's their primary (and often only) talking point.

“And further, Israel is a major partner of NATO...”

R - No, it is not.

“...a member of the OECD...”

R - No, Israel is not yet a member of the OECD, it is an “accession candidate” just like Russia.

“...yet its government is actively sponsoring campaigns against the CiC of the western forces and in general trying as hard as it can to dismiss the policy concerns of others as evil and racist.”

R - I'm assuming you mean our current excuse for a president – who sat in Reverend Wright's pews for twenty years? France and Russia (among many others) are also “sponsoring campaigns” against our AWOL CiC. Ahmadinejad calls Israel a “one-bomb state” and openly sponsors Holocaust denial conferences attended by David Duke. It would seem obvious to even the most obtuse that that fits both the description and definition of “evil and racist” quite nicely.

“Further, the Israeli official use of the term terrorism to describe some folks engaged in abrawl with IDF soldiers (who they didnt even try to kill) undermines the war on terror, making the term useless.”

R - Pardon me for pointing out the obvious here – Gaza is under HAMAS control. HAMAS is a “specially designated global terrorist” organization under the U.S. Department of Treasury regulations. In addition the UN has also blacklisted HAMAS as a terrorist organization. Turkish IHH (your “brawling folks) is a Muslim Brotherhood front group, like HAMAS. Every single police force on the planet (including the Norwegian PD) considers an attack on their officers with knives and steel pipes to be attempted murder.

“And, since I know several palestinians personaly, I tend to get insulted by such obvious racism as the Jerusalem Post continually dishes out. Enough for ya? I could go on.”

R - That's nice. And I know a fairly large number of Muslims who think that people like you and your Palestinian friends are full of feces. Once again I'm going to point out the obvious here – what makes you think that I don't get insulted by the open calls for genocide that are repeated over and over again in the press of the “Muslim world”? Why should I ignore all of those “death to the Jews” signs that are seen at every single pro-Palestinian protest on the planet? More to the point – Why are you ignoring those signs? Do go on, the more you do so the more you reveal about who and what you are...

R - Of course “our” echo chamber is smaller. 13 million is considerably smaller then ten percent of 1.2 billion and ten percent of 1.2 billion is considerably larger then the population of 1938 Germany.

R - Maybe you missed that 1998 fatwa from OBL (representing that tiny minority), you know, the one that declared war on the U.S. and Israel? Who's side are you on again?

Posted by: Render at June 29, 2010 7:43 am
Yasser Qashlaq, among Organizers of Lebanese Flotilla: I Hope Our Ships Will Take the "Dregs of European Garbage" from Israel Back to Their Own Countries

Following are excerpts from an interview with Palestinian-Lebanese journalist Yasser Qashlaq, of the Free Palestine Movement, which aired on Al-Manar TV on June 18, 2010.

Yasser Qashlaq: Whenever that criminal gang of Israeli pirates seizes a ship, I become more optimistic that the day will come when these ships will carry these dregs of European garbage back to their own countries. Let Gilad Shalit return to Paris. Let those murderers return to Poland. Once they are back there, we will hunt them down to the end of the world, and prosecute them for their massacres, from Deir Yassin to this day.


I would like to say something to the Israeli people.

Interviewer: To the settlers.

Yasser Qashlaq: Yes, to that gang of criminal murderers. Board the ship we are sending you, and return to your countries. Don’t be misled by the Arab leaders or the moderate camp. You will never be able to make peace with us. Our children will return [to Palestine]. There is no reason for coexistence. Even if some of our leaders or regimes sign [peace] with you – we will never sign. Do not be misled by these regimes. Return to your countries.
Posted by: Maxtrue at June 29, 2010 7:58 am
Hamas Leader Mahmoud Al-Zahhar: Our Plan Is to Establish a Palestinian State Without Recognizing Israel and Without Giving Up the Right of Return

Following are excerpts from an interview with Hamas leader Mahmoud Al-Zahhar, which aired on Future News TV on June 15, 2010:

Mahmoud Al-Zahhar: We have liberated Gaza, but have we recognized Israel? Have we given up our lands occupied in 1948? We demand the liberation of the West Bank, and the establishment of a state in the West Bank and Gaza, with Jerusalem as its capital – but without recognizing [Israel]. This is the key – without recognizing the Israeli enemy on a single inch of land.

This is our plan for this stage – to liberate the West Bank and Gaza, without recognizing Israel’s right to a single inch of land, and without giving up the Right of Return for a single Palestinian refugee.


Our plan for this stage is to liberate any inch of Palestinian land, and to establish a state on it. Our ultimate plan is [to have] Palestine in its entirety. I say this loud and clear so that nobody will accuse me of employing political tactics. We will not recognize the Israeli enemy.

As for the issue of a referendum – [the Palestinian Authority] is ready to impose its position on people by force. Whoever wants to hold a referendum, and believes that he can get all of Palestine for the Palestinians, can hold a referendum, but will not give up the platform of resistance, and the plan to liberate Palestine in its entirety. This is unequivocal.


If we could liberate the Negev now, we would continue [our military activity], but our capabilities dictate that after we got rid of the Israeli presence in Gaza, we must finish off the remnants of that occupation, and move on to the West Bank.
Posted by: Maxtrue at June 29, 2010 7:59 am
Following are excerpts from a Friday sermon delivered by a Hamas-affiliated preacher from Jabalya, Gaza, on June 11, 2010, and aired on Al-Aqsa TV.

Preacher: Whoever believes that our battle with the Jews and the Crusaders has subsided or is dormant is living in delusions. Do you know why, oh distinguished people? Do you know why the conflict continues and will continue until the Day of Judgment? Because the Communist East and the Capitalist West fear nothing as much as they fear the proclamation that there is no god but Allah and that Muhammad is His messenger. They fear nothing as much as they fear the words “Allah Akbar.”


"The Jews are convinced that their annihilation and the destruction of their state will never be accomplished by secular, reactionary, pan-Arab, or Ba’thist regimes. Their annihilation and the destruction of their state will only be achieved through Islam, by those who bow before Allah.


Russia and the US may have their disagreements, but when the Prophet Muhammad is the enemy, they forget their differences. This is a fact." Memri

The above transcripts are from Memri. The next time Fnord's friends are insulted by the Israeli Press, have them take a look at Muslim speakers. I could go on all day posting blood libel, but the following sums it up:

"Bookmark and Share
June 3, 2010
Special Dispatch No.2997

Salafi Jihadi Sheikh Hussein Bin Mahmud: Gaza Does Not Want Freedom Flotillas with Blonde Women – It Wants Black Islamic Banners of Jihad; Hitler Left Some Jews Alive So the World Could See Why He Killed the Rest; 'Gaza… Is Thirsty and Wants to Drink the Blood of the Sons of Apes and Pigs'

On May 31, 2010, a member of the Al-Falluja jihadist web forum posted an essay about the Gaza flotilla events by Sheikh Hussein bin Mahmud, a pseudonymous cleric who is well respected in the online global jihadist community.

Generally speaking, the jihadist forums have not focused much attention on the flotilla issue. Salafi jihadis are generally hostile to both the Turkish and Hamas governments, and are disdainful of Western public opinion and diplomatic activity. Thus, Sheikh Hussein mocks the idea of the flotilla, calling it a hopeless "suicide mission" that will do nothing to end the siege on Gaza; he ridicules Turkey's response to the events, saying that it should have declared jihad to liberate Palestine, or at least carried out naval attacks in retribution; and argues that what Gaza really needs is weaponry and commanders like Osama bin Laden and Abu Mus'ab Al-Zarqawi. He concludes his essay by saying that the battle must begin with a fight against the armies of Israel's Arab neighbors, who are preventing the mujahideen from entering Palestine to fight the Jews.

Following are excerpts from Hussein bin Mahmud's essay:

The complimentary full text of this report is made available from the MEMRI Jihad and Terrorism Threat Monitor; for membership information, visit http://www.subscriptions.memri.org/content/en/member_registr_jttm.htm .

"The Jews Have Become Less Rough and Violent than They Used to Be"

"Hundreds of troops from the navy of the Jews, with air support, mounted a coordinated assault on the ships in the flotilla, using bullets and gas, and killing several of the unarmed passengers; the rest they brought to Ashdod port in occupied Palestine...

"What drew my attention is that the Jews have become less rough and violent than they used to be. There was an aspect of softness and calm in their dealings with these ships. Some might express amazement at these words, but they are the truth…

"The Jews betrayed Moses… They killed many of the prophets, and especially Yahya bin Zakariya [i.e. John the Baptist]… They conspired to kill our Prophet Muhammad… They are hard of heart, feeble of mind, and lacking in manners. They are a people of deception, deceit, wickedness, unbelief, heresy, and polytheism."

Hitler Left Some Jews Alive So the World Could See Why He Killed the Rest

"Everyone who has had contact with them and lived alongside them, in the East and in the West, has spurned them, loathed them, and detested them, to the point where Hitler said: I could kill all the Jews in the world, but I left a few alive so that the entire world will know why I killed the Jews…

"Given that these are some of the Jews' characteristics, what were the members of the Freedom Flotilla expecting from them?...

"Those people who have condemned the mujahideen's… marytrdom operations, calling them 'suicide operations,' would do well to abandon the idea of flotillas like these, which are truly suicide in the full sense of the term.

"The Jews have been laying siege to the Muslims [in Gaza] for the past four years, and the entire world did nothing [about it] – do these [ship passengers] think that their being killed by the Jews will disturb a single fly[?]...

"The oddest thing about this flotilla was the Turkish people's stance. We would have expected more from the Turkish people than what we saw. We know that most of the Arab peoples are dead, having been buried by their rulers in the coffins of poverty, desperation, humiliation, and oppression... But the Turkish people still has a shred of honor… and it still has some innate savagery.

"We would have expected [the Turks] to storm and burn down the Jewish embassies, chase down and kill all those within them, and kill every Jew in Turkey and threaten the rest of the Jews in the world with Turkish rage, in a manner reminiscent of the awe-inspiring Ottoman state. But none of this happened. Just a few hundred Turks stood in front of the Israeli Embassy chanting slogans and voicing condemnation – as though they were an Arab people, and not a Turkish one!..."

"How Does a Person Put His Life in the Hands of His Jewish Enemy When He Is Unarmed?"

"How does a person put his life in the hands of his Jewish enemy when he is unarmed? Do they expect mercy from the Jews? The Jews didn't show mercy [even] to the prophets...

"Were the Turkish government serious in its response, the least that would have been incumbent on it would have been to act against the Jews according to the principle of retribution in kind: ordering Turkish fleets to attack the ships on the high seas, kill some of their men, imprison the others, and bring the ships into Turkish territory... [But in fact] the shari'a obligation is to declare jihad for the sake of Allah, in order to liberate Palestine from the hands of the Jews and return it to the hands of the Muslims. This is the shari'a obligation that no country that claims to be Muslim can evade...

"When has freedom ever been attained without fighting? When has honor ever been available for purchase in the market of betrayal and humiliation? When has glory ever been granted [to someone] apart from on the battlefield?...

"Gaza does not need all this media coverage… Gaza needs bombs, bullets, iron, fire, missiles, tanks, mines, and missile launchers held on the shoulders of lions such as [the Arab commanders in Chechnya] Thamir Al-Suweilem ('Khattab') and Abu Al-Walid Al-Ghamdi, Abu Mus'ab Al-Zarqawi and Yahya Ayyash... It needs extraordinary leaders such as Osama bin Laden, Mullah Muhammad Omar, Abu Omar Al-Baghdadi, and Shamil Basayev…"

"Gaza… Is Thirsty and Wants to Drink the Blood of the Sons of Apes and Pigs"

"Gaza will not agree to a ceasefire with the Jews. On the contrary – it is thirsty and wants to drink the blood of the sons of apes and pigs, and it is hungry and longs to devour the body parts of these cowards. Proud Gaza calls to the Muslims, [saying] that it does not want people to defend it, but rather wants people to set out from it to liberate Palestine and to expel the accursed Jews.

"Gaza does not want 'freedom ships' bearing blonde women with Muslim, Christian, Jewish, and atheist men; it wants a naval fleet and a land army [bearing] black Islamic banners that are Khorasani [i.e. Afghan], Syrian, Egyptian, Maghrebi, Yemeni, Turk, and Kurdish, set east of the Jordan River with the Jews to its west, with sparks flying from the eyes of the Muslims...

"Our problem is not Gaza, but [all] Palestine. [Our problem is with] those who protect the Jews from outside its borders, and prevent the mujahideen from entering Palestine to wage jihad for the sake of Allah and to liberate our holy lands. Thus, we say to the mujahideen: Those who want to enter Palestine and fight the Jews must start first [by fighting] the border guards [i.e. the Arab regimes], so as to protect their rear – because a wise man does not leave his rear exposed to his enemy. It is not forbidden to kill the Jewish state's border guards, even if they pray and fast..."

Posted by: Maxtrue at June 29, 2010 8:07 am
No. I didn't think you could find anything like the above in JPOST, nor from Israeli leadership Fnord. Those who launched the flotilla are surely nice people with no racist thoughts on their minds. There are no dots to connect, no strategy to inspect.

But ah yes, that is because there is no greater truth.

When looking at the many stories this morning of Muslims dying and killing by their own hands, all roads point to Israel and sign posts have nothing to do with antisemitism, blood libel or even the threat to the interests of the United States.

Thank you for showing me the light Fnord, the ooo in varooom.......
Posted by: Maxtrue at June 29, 2010 10:14 am
Ah, floods of text, sprinkled with insults. Gotta love yoyr way of arguing....
"Perhaps you should address the Norges Nasjonalsosialistiske Bevegelse instead"
"Are you a complete asshole or just trying to simulate one?"

Brilliant. Im a nazi asshole wanting to genocide jews. Gotcha. Must be nice being able to mark your oppos that squarely into the insane asylum, with full applause from your choir.

As for the term "trerrorist", its literal meaning is one who attacks civilians in order to impose terror on a populace. Fighting SF elements of the IDF hardly falls into that category, no?

And the palestinian peaceplan is of course an open question. At this point, they seem to be quite willing to discuss a two-state solution. The PA is quite effective ontroling their extremist elements, as indeed is Hamas (they observed the hudna). 2007 was the magic time, when the outcome could have turned out different. But as long as the term terrorist is applied as a killem if u got a chance term, then of coourse the guys on the assassination list are going to fight. I would too.
Posted by: Fnord at June 29, 2010 10:28 am
Use ooo instead of oo, it fits better.

As for reading comprehension; 0

As for addressing the issues; 0

Palestinian Peace Plan; 0 as explained above

Now you've become boooring......
Posted by: Maxtrue at June 29, 2010 10:42 am
By the way "trerrorist" has no definition that I can see in the dictionary. Now I'm a bad speller, but to putting your mistakes in quotation marks kinda sums you up. Hiding behind, "What,-your-calling-me-a-genocidal-Jew-hater?" is rather girly-boy arguing, don't you think? That is the first place of refuge for those having few cogent arguments. I repeat, show us all similar drivel and hate from mainstream Israeli Press.

1. The guys on the hit list like OBL committed acts of terror. Sure seems like Turkey wanted Israeli help to terminate PPK in Iraq.

2. What caused the assault on Gaza was indiscriminate missile fire on Israeli citizens after the Hamas refusal to renew the ceasefire requested by the PA. In fact, Hamas used the ensuing chaos to slaughter Fatah on the streets. As I said, poor sense of fact.

3. The magic time was right after the Israeli withdrawal when Gaza was returned and there was no blockade. We all know what happened next and so does the international community.

4. I never labeled you a Nazi asshole, just a useful idiot to a very sordid mentality you obviously have no problems being in bed with.

5. Yes. I'm sure you would. Why not buy a ticket for the next flotilla. Bring your girlfriend along. I'm sure you will enjoy the company and the echo chamber.
Posted by: Maxtrue at June 29, 2010 11:22 am

And by the way, here is Lang's blog. I think the subject and his comments are interesting. Always about the Israelis eh?
Posted by: Maxtrue at June 29, 2010 1:22 pm
lol, you are so crude! Naughty Boys!
Posted by: Fnord at June 29, 2010 1:42 pm
Fnord - No, you're a Norwegian anarchist punk asshole who defends genocidal terrorists on line while fixating on Israel's right to exist as a Jewish state. See, I never labeled you a Nazi either. You did that all by yourself.

The reference to Norges Nasjonalsosialistiske Bevegelse was to point out that you live in a glass house.

You do know that General Petraeus does NOT agree with you, right?


Were you lying when you claimed that Israel is a member of the OECD and a "major" NATO partner, or just making it up as you went along?

So, do you have a lot of friends who are cokeheads?

Posted by: Render at June 29, 2010 1:44 pm
fnord is the kind of Jew-hating scum who lets genocidal Arabs do what he doesn't have the balls to do himself. Anytime you want, fnord, I have some 7.62 with your name on the jackets.
Posted by: Li'l Mamzer at June 29, 2010 2:55 pm
Guys go easy on Fnord. Nordics rocks! :-) Denmark, Finland, Norway, Sweden, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia all have OMLTs in Afghanistan.
Posted by: anan at June 29, 2010 5:49 pm
anan: Guys go easy on Fnord. Nordics rocks!

your name added to the jackets, you Jew-baiting asshole
Posted by: Li'l Mamzer at June 29, 2010 6:18 pm
"The PA is quite effective ontroling their extremist elements, as indeed is Hamas"

Hamas *is* an extremist element, you twisted genocidal Jew-baiting motherfucker. I have linked here many times to the Hamas charter which explicitly calls for the murder of *Jews*. Not settlers, Zionists or Israelis, but Jews. That is why you are such a lying bigoted hypocrite when you say that you are against Israel but not Jews. By supporting Hamas you identify yourself unmistakably as a genocidal antisemite like your pal anand.
Posted by: Gary Rosen at June 30, 2010 12:24 am
Okay guys.....why waste time venting? I feel badly for MJT to have this become rant central no matter how justified the anger. Really, what does it prove?

We can respond to comments that claim the administration does not think Iran is seeking nukes with stuff like this: http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gwnpVCEO2SYpADngdJafhfFNnUuwD9GKOR6O0

but resorting to obscenities gets you what? Or put another way, why let a fly bother you? Just put screens on your windows...save your energy engaging those who are serious in conversation.
Posted by: Maxtrue at June 30, 2010 6:21 am
Obviously Anan saw the three excepts from Memri above and knows full well what Hamas thinks. His continued statements reflect his colors. Gary, you act like you don't already know this. Anan will either change his approach and apologize for his thoughtlessness or he will continue to be ignored or blasted. It is really that simple.

Save you breath.....

There is a point in having this useful idiot here. I think you understand what I mean.
Posted by: Maxtrue at June 30, 2010 6:27 am
Posted by: Maxtrue at June 30, 2010 9:28 am
Render, again, check out the comment thread....

Posted by: Maxtrue at June 30, 2010 9:47 am
Erdogan complains that western media is trying to exacerbate the tension between the US and Turkey. Well read this article and tell me which side Turkey is clearly on: http://todayszaman.com/tz-web/news-214644-espionage-war-heats-up-between-us-and-russia.html
Posted by: Maxtrue at June 30, 2010 9:50 am
I think some of what Fnord does is what a lot of liberals tend to do with 'speech' that they can't truly grasp; they dismiss it. They ignore the heinous things the anti-Zionist/anti-Jews say as empty rhetoric because it doesn't fit their worldview that people couldn't possibly be that evil (with the exception of those on the right, i.e. Bush/Cheney, etc.). It's a contradiction that we see time and time again in the Western left.
Posted by: KellyC at June 30, 2010 1:26 pm
Exactly Kelly and it appeared Fnord assumed I have no objection to any Israeli policies (or none that matter) and that by "greater truth" I mean Islam all over the world in an ETERNAL conflict with Liberal values. Then they repeat the usual "we favor Israel's existence, but don't offer a practical approach to solutions that aren't more than bashing Israel. Even the CNAS solution I printed a part of above has many givens not even close to being realistic. Echo Chamber? I debated recently with Liberal friends at another blog whether my claim JFK would never be nominated by today's Liberals was correct. Though Craig hasn't been here lately, some of his thoughts live on......
Posted by: Maxtrue at June 30, 2010 2:29 pm

US drops deportation action against an ex-Israeli spy. Can you believe this is the heading?

Talk about the echo chamber. This guy is the son of Hamas leader. Hamas. Any question about that? And then look how he is tarred by the Press rather than being applauded. And he is released from action because of the overwhelming majority backing his freedom. It is a blow to the administration who even had the nerve to go after this guy.

Son of Hamas and look at the echo chamber slap him. I'm sure Fnord has a good explanation of that......

Michael: please interview this guy and his book. You are the prefect person. Maybe you can even have him share thoughts with Mr. Young.....
Posted by: Maxtrue at June 30, 2010 2:38 pm
perfect...well actually you might be a prefect here too...
Posted by: Maxtrue at June 30, 2010 2:40 pm
Fnord brought up Mr. Lang. Now I'm not going to embroil Michael in a dispute with Lang, but I do want to clarify something. In a Lang post entitled "Does Israel suffer from Iranophobia"


Now you would think such a topic would consider existential threats and be somewhat objective, I was amused. Read through the comment thread. Nowhere is the usual Lang interjection. And the thread which was to discuss whether Iran is not quite the existential threat to Israel as some Israelis make out ends up as this:

"If someone in Congress really cared about Jewish-Gentile relations in the US, eg the Touro Covenant, then he or she would introduce a resolution honoring Rabbi J. Teitelbaum and acknowledge Satmar's tremendous contributions to the USA.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joel_Teitelbaum "

From point A to point B. And one must wonder what the point was in the first place.

There is the side bar topic of Catholics. And a number of other subjects on the home page. There is almost no topics or posts on Hamas or Hizb'Allah and I didn't see any links to anything that is Pro Israel, either here or abroad. Little conversation about human rights.

I am not in a position to say what Lang is thinking, or what his views on Israel or Jews are, but it is clear from the many comments at his blog (usually let to pass), good thoughts for Israel are few and far between. Much condemnation for all who support strong support for Israel. Some of the more anti-Zionist remarks were not met with reproach by Lang, but those objecting to a focus on Israel are. Just read the thread on the Russian spies.

So this is what Fnord told me to read. To understand HIS views I should read Lang's. That is the friendship that he came here with. That is his foundation.

I however see this as the stark difference between Lang and Totten.
Posted by: Maxtrue at June 30, 2010 3:35 pm

For Mr. Young
Posted by: Maxtrue at June 30, 2010 4:15 pm
Lang is a loon spending his last days desperately trying to repair the damage he's done to his own reputation inside the intel communities.

"For a period prior to and during the Iraq War, he registered under the U.S. Department of Justice's Foreign Agents Registration Act, for his work on behalf of a Lebanese politician and industrialist. He registered on advice of counsel and has since deregistered."

Posted by: Render at June 30, 2010 6:21 pm
And that explains Lang's comment he makes in the comment thread for the topic of Russian spies. He seems a bit pissed and we all know where that can lead these days........

Thanks Render, you brought that full circle.

to the ooo in varooom

Posted by: Maxtrue at June 30, 2010 8:27 pm
"I am not in a position to say what Lang is thinking, or what his views on Israel or Jews are, but it is clear from the many comments at his blog (usually let to pass), good thoughts for Israel are few and far between."

You mean fnord linked you to a blog that scorned and demonized Israel?!?!?!? Sonofagun, whoda thunk it! And here fnord is such a great friend of Jews and Israel!!!!
Posted by: Gary Rosen at June 30, 2010 11:35 pm
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