June 23, 2010
Good Call, Mr. President
General Stanley McChrystal has been relieved of command in Afghanistan and replaced by General David Petraeus. This is one of the best decisions the president has made since he took office.
Posted by Michael J. Totten at June 23, 2010 4:15 PM
Comments
Could you elaborate?
Posted by: anan at June 23, 2010 4:22 pm
Agreed. He had no other option if military code is still effective. From a Euro angle: Calling your hosts "fc*ng gay" when you are to meet a french minister is extremely juvenile. That he has allowed such a command climate shows he had lost control of the situation. All the rest is just a natural consquence of that. They sound in the interviews like they are on speed. You cant have a warrior-god as a leader of the western armies.
Posted by: Fnord at June 23, 2010 4:29 pm
They sound in the interviews like they are on speed.
It sounded to me more like McChrystal surrounded himself with a bunch of sycophants who followed his lead and played into his own biases and his own ego to the point where he (and they) thought they were untouchable. I've had a problem with the way McChrystal tried to use his (imaginary?) rockstar status to push people around and ridicule anyone who opposes him for over a year but this is the first time I've actually read a first-hand account of what kind of environment he's operating in. It really did remind me of 5th grade classroom.
Then again I'm biased against the mission in Afghanistan in general, so in my opinion it's not just a case of the wrong man for the job, but the wrong job for the US military to have taken on. I'm just glad Obama didn't allow the US military to further self-destruct. On this one issue. Now if he'd just take care of the other egotists who seem to be running the DoD these days...
Posted by: Craig at June 23, 2010 4:44 pm
It sounded to me more like McChrystal surrounded himself with a bunch of sycophants who followed his lead and played into his own biases and his own ego to the point where he (and they) thought they were untouchable. I've had a problem with the way McChrystal tried to use his (imaginary?) rockstar status to push people around and ridicule anyone who opposes him for over a year but this is the first time I've actually read a first-hand account of what kind of environment he's operating in. It really did remind me of 5th grade classroom.
Then again I'm biased against the mission in Afghanistan in general, so in my opinion it's not just a case of the wrong man for the job, but the wrong job for the US military to have taken on. I'm just glad Obama didn't allow the US military to further self-destruct. On this one issue. Now if he'd just take care of the other egotists who seem to be running the DoD these days...
Fnord, where do you hang out these days to discuss Afghanistan?
Be nice to touch base offline.
Are you Swedish? Any thoughts on why the Swedish/German mentored 1-209 ANA brigade is probably one the best in the ANA?
Posted by: anan at June 23, 2010 5:10 pm
Be nice to touch base offline.
Are you Swedish? Any thoughts on why the Swedish/German mentored 1-209 ANA brigade is probably one the best in the ANA?
I argued elsewhere that McChrystal should have stayed. I based this on the history of conflict with the administration, the general's reception abroad and his skill to carry out basically his mission. I do not see how the mission can be accomplished in the time period McChrystal was arguing against.
He had several reasons for anger and they have not changed. Many of the barbs were correct. This doesn't mean his interview was very smart. Obviously not, unless he was trying to exit.
I do think Obama was well within his right as POTUS and the manner in which McChyrstal expressed himself was over the top. I understand that many felt his comments and that of his personal staff so breached the standards, Obama had no options. Other argued that the general fell into such an obvious trap, one wonder how he would accomplish the harder tasks in Afghanistan, despite having killed more AQ than anybody else.
So I'm not surprised. I wish Obama could have bridged the differences. No one should be happy and Obama's decision will have consequences. Though the general did this to himself, I do blame the strategy of this administration for getting to this point. I do not hold in high regard, a few players still operating. Many in the military and beyond believe some of the general's comments though improperly expressed, were truthful. I hope this isn't lost in the days to come.
Posted by: Maxtrue at June 23, 2010 5:45 pm
He had several reasons for anger and they have not changed. Many of the barbs were correct. This doesn't mean his interview was very smart. Obviously not, unless he was trying to exit.
I do think Obama was well within his right as POTUS and the manner in which McChyrstal expressed himself was over the top. I understand that many felt his comments and that of his personal staff so breached the standards, Obama had no options. Other argued that the general fell into such an obvious trap, one wonder how he would accomplish the harder tasks in Afghanistan, despite having killed more AQ than anybody else.
So I'm not surprised. I wish Obama could have bridged the differences. No one should be happy and Obama's decision will have consequences. Though the general did this to himself, I do blame the strategy of this administration for getting to this point. I do not hold in high regard, a few players still operating. Many in the military and beyond believe some of the general's comments though improperly expressed, were truthful. I hope this isn't lost in the days to come.
Will it make a difference to the war? How do we win this one?
Posted by: Joe at June 23, 2010 5:49 pm
Maxtrue: I think people (the administration etc.) were willing to tolerate his behaviour as long as he got results - but the last 6 months have been somewhat underwhelming. Add to that this episode basically burned any bridges left with the people he had to work with means that it wasn't really practical for him to continue, even with the support of Obama.
Hopefully Petraeus can pull something out of the bag soon, otherwise we are going to probably pull out of Afghanistan before the next election, and concede it to the Taliban.
Posted by: Cassius Corodes at June 23, 2010 6:06 pm
Hopefully Petraeus can pull something out of the bag soon, otherwise we are going to probably pull out of Afghanistan before the next election, and concede it to the Taliban.
Joe, define "we."
This is primarily Afghanistan's war lead by the GIRoA and ANSF with substantial international help.
I believe the Afghans can win with $300 billion in international grants over 20 years. [$200 billion to fund the ANSF, $100 billion to fund development.] But it will take the ANSF many years and a lot of blood to win this war. American and international expectations are out of sync with this.
One reason for optimism is that since a major expansion of the ANSF was authorized in November 2009, the ANSF have grown by 40,000 troops and improved in quality. Pashtun recruitment in the ANSF is strong, with a substantial waiting list of Afghans who want to join the ANA [don't know how many of these are Pashtuns.] The Taliban have only managed one major attack on an ANSF training center in the last 6 months and don't seem to have a workable strategy to stop the growth and improvement of the ANSF short of cutting off international funding, advising and training for them.
Joe, you should remember that over 50 K non Americans from over 50 countries are planned for ISAF. A lot of mothers and fathers are losing their loved ones in many countries around the world.
Posted by: anan at June 23, 2010 6:12 pm
This is primarily Afghanistan's war lead by the GIRoA and ANSF with substantial international help.
I believe the Afghans can win with $300 billion in international grants over 20 years. [$200 billion to fund the ANSF, $100 billion to fund development.] But it will take the ANSF many years and a lot of blood to win this war. American and international expectations are out of sync with this.
One reason for optimism is that since a major expansion of the ANSF was authorized in November 2009, the ANSF have grown by 40,000 troops and improved in quality. Pashtun recruitment in the ANSF is strong, with a substantial waiting list of Afghans who want to join the ANA [don't know how many of these are Pashtuns.] The Taliban have only managed one major attack on an ANSF training center in the last 6 months and don't seem to have a workable strategy to stop the growth and improvement of the ANSF short of cutting off international funding, advising and training for them.
Joe, you should remember that over 50 K non Americans from over 50 countries are planned for ISAF. A lot of mothers and fathers are losing their loved ones in many countries around the world.
Cassius wrote: "but the last 6 months have been somewhat underwhelming." Why would you say this? How do you think ISAF embedded partnering inside ANSF is going?
"otherwise we are going to probably pull out of Afghanistan before the next election, and concede it to the Taliban." Almost inconceivable. Taliban and AQ linked networks have major regional and international ambitions that are unacceptable for a lot of countries.
Close to the worst case scenario is that ANSF and ISAF pull out of pockets in the South and smaller pockets in the East to focus on a smaller ink stain. But even in this nearly worst case scenario, GIRoA/ANSF with ISAF support will control most of Afghanistan. If this transpires, expect a major increase in Afghan violence as the ANSF and Taliban go right at each other across a wide battlespace and as many Pakistani Taliban and AQ linked networks cross the Durand line west. Even this is a victory of sorts as long as the ANSF gives the Taliban and AQ linked networks one hell of a fight. Pretty sure they will.
Posted by: anan at June 23, 2010 6:20 pm
"otherwise we are going to probably pull out of Afghanistan before the next election, and concede it to the Taliban." Almost inconceivable. Taliban and AQ linked networks have major regional and international ambitions that are unacceptable for a lot of countries.
Close to the worst case scenario is that ANSF and ISAF pull out of pockets in the South and smaller pockets in the East to focus on a smaller ink stain. But even in this nearly worst case scenario, GIRoA/ANSF with ISAF support will control most of Afghanistan. If this transpires, expect a major increase in Afghan violence as the ANSF and Taliban go right at each other across a wide battlespace and as many Pakistani Taliban and AQ linked networks cross the Durand line west. Even this is a victory of sorts as long as the ANSF gives the Taliban and AQ linked networks one hell of a fight. Pretty sure they will.
I was never a McChrystal supporter and think the Tillman cover up stunk a bit.
As far as being disrespectful. He was in the military. There is a long tradition of rough language in the military. It was probably foolish of the general to entertain a reporter.
And compared to the Bush administration I think the Obama administration shows a huge lack of class and mocks many people. Obama should not be surprised when he is mocked back or not taken that seriously.
Posted by: jd at June 23, 2010 6:23 pm
As far as being disrespectful. He was in the military. There is a long tradition of rough language in the military. It was probably foolish of the general to entertain a reporter.
And compared to the Bush administration I think the Obama administration shows a huge lack of class and mocks many people. Obama should not be surprised when he is mocked back or not taken that seriously.
http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/68167
I sure as hell hope so....
Posted by: Maxtrue at June 23, 2010 6:56 pm
I sure as hell hope so....
http://www.rand.org/pubs/monographs/2010/RAND_MG982.pdf
Counter-terrorism efforts in Pakistan
It IS a pdf Craig....
Posted by: Maxtrue at June 23, 2010 6:59 pm
Counter-terrorism efforts in Pakistan
It IS a pdf Craig....
Now follow this closely. Peter states what the real problems are and then look at what he proposes: http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2010-06-23/general-mcchrystal-failing-to-follow-obamas-afghan-policy/
And what does Obama do? He puts Petraeus in Afghanistan. That is why many are warning for Petraeus to watch his back. But in so doing, Obama has elevated Petraeus to a position Peter didn't imagine. What if Obama had no option given McChrystal's meltdown to bring in gen P, but by doing that, creates a General he cannot fire without significant damage and who can push Obama like McChyrstal couldn't. I suspect this is the real story....a few have already suspected themselves.
Posted by: Maxtrue at June 23, 2010 7:23 pm
And what does Obama do? He puts Petraeus in Afghanistan. That is why many are warning for Petraeus to watch his back. But in so doing, Obama has elevated Petraeus to a position Peter didn't imagine. What if Obama had no option given McChrystal's meltdown to bring in gen P, but by doing that, creates a General he cannot fire without significant damage and who can push Obama like McChyrstal couldn't. I suspect this is the real story....a few have already suspected themselves.
Off-topic, but probably of interest to many here.
Israeli Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman has a new op-ed in the JPost, "My blueprint for a resolution"
http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Op-EdContributors/Article.aspx?id=179333
Posted by: Joo-LiZ at June 23, 2010 8:10 pm
Israeli Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman has a new op-ed in the JPost, "My blueprint for a resolution"
http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Op-EdContributors/Article.aspx?id=179333
anand sez, "the ANSF and Taliban go right at each other across a wide battlespace and as many Pakistani Taliban and AQ linked networks cross the Durand line west."
Sounds good to me. It is not happening now, however.
I'm for anand's worst case and "close to the worst case" scenarios.
Posted by: del at June 23, 2010 8:16 pm
Sounds good to me. It is not happening now, however.
I'm for anand's worst case and "close to the worst case" scenarios.
The removal of McCrystal was inevitable. As POTUS Obama had little choice.
The reassignment of Petreus is a different matter and there are political overtones to why this happened.
I don't think Obama has a sincere interest in Afghanistan, and wants to put in a half-hearted effort with a fixed timeline for withdrawal. Letting Petraeus take charge of a no-win situation will take the current luster off the general and make him much less likely to be drafted by the GOP as a Presidential candidate in 2010.
Posted by: bob at June 23, 2010 8:19 pm
The reassignment of Petreus is a different matter and there are political overtones to why this happened.
I don't think Obama has a sincere interest in Afghanistan, and wants to put in a half-hearted effort with a fixed timeline for withdrawal. Letting Petraeus take charge of a no-win situation will take the current luster off the general and make him much less likely to be drafted by the GOP as a Presidential candidate in 2010.
errata -> "in 2012."
Posted by: bob at June 23, 2010 8:38 pm
Bob, that is right I think.
But will Petraeus do this?Or does he have a secret plan? Like he doean't know what you're saying? Iraq WILL get shakey. He'll suggest Obama's strategy is allowing things to fall apart. Delay the time line. That is somethiong McChyrstal couldn't do. They can't pull Petraeus's plug. He can say this Democratic under-current to bail was the basic problem with McChyrstal as the Daily Beast article mentions above. Obama doesn't want to win. He using the best general to end Obama's War.
If things slip on several fronts, Democrats are in trouble in 2012. I think many people don't get the larger picture. And with an elections coming up now, expect Republican gains. Things are at a calm lull right now. When crap hits the fan, will he pull Petraeus out for that? Obama has handed his general a powerful sword. I don't think Petraeus is going to fall on it. Do you think the general isn't aware Obama said little as his Party enjoyed the MoveOn ads that slandered him as Betrayedus and suggested the surge would fail and Iraq was lost?
The President can fire a general and the people can fire Congress and then the President.
Posted by: Maxtrue at June 23, 2010 9:07 pm
But will Petraeus do this?Or does he have a secret plan? Like he doean't know what you're saying? Iraq WILL get shakey. He'll suggest Obama's strategy is allowing things to fall apart. Delay the time line. That is somethiong McChyrstal couldn't do. They can't pull Petraeus's plug. He can say this Democratic under-current to bail was the basic problem with McChyrstal as the Daily Beast article mentions above. Obama doesn't want to win. He using the best general to end Obama's War.
If things slip on several fronts, Democrats are in trouble in 2012. I think many people don't get the larger picture. And with an elections coming up now, expect Republican gains. Things are at a calm lull right now. When crap hits the fan, will he pull Petraeus out for that? Obama has handed his general a powerful sword. I don't think Petraeus is going to fall on it. Do you think the general isn't aware Obama said little as his Party enjoyed the MoveOn ads that slandered him as Betrayedus and suggested the surge would fail and Iraq was lost?
The President can fire a general and the people can fire Congress and then the President.
Interesting Joo-Liz.....for the most part extremely rational...
Posted by: Maxtrue at June 23, 2010 9:18 pm
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/24/opinion/24thu1.html?partner=rssnyt&emc=rss
Like I was saying...
Posted by: Maxtrue at June 23, 2010 9:40 pm
Like I was saying...
http://frontpagemag.com/2010/06/24/petraeus-to-the-rescue/print/
Like I was saying even more.....
Posted by: Maxtrue at June 23, 2010 9:46 pm
Like I was saying even more.....
"Sounds good to me. It is not happening now, however." Ummm? Care to explain? What are you going on about? The Taliban [aside from some of the foreign fighter heavy larger formations that fight in Nuristan and through Siraj] avoid taking on platoon or larger ANA and ISAF units. They have learned from the school of hard knocks that almost every time they do so they get their butts kicked. For the same reason the Taliban [outside of Nuristan and Siraj's fighters] avoid significant attacks on ANA and ISAF outposts.
Del, when is the last company sized engagement that the ANA lost? Forget that. Have the ANA lost a single platoon sized engagement in Helmand this year?
The 215th ANA Corps has three brigades in Helmand, and the Taliban doesn't like fighting them. Rather the Taliban tries to intimidate soft targets such as civilians.
"I'm for anand's worst case and "close to the worst case" scenarios."
So you favor the ANSF and ISAF ceding large parts of the South and smaller pockets of the east to the Taliban while concentrating their forces in the rest of the country? Later as the ANSF grows in size and quality it gradually captures the east and south with ISAF trainers, advisers and combat enablers.
Many ANSF, ISAF, and Afghans prefer this strategy. However this strategy means dooming Afghanistan and Pakistan to a very long and bloody war.
Posted by: anan at June 23, 2010 10:13 pm
Del, when is the last company sized engagement that the ANA lost? Forget that. Have the ANA lost a single platoon sized engagement in Helmand this year?
The 215th ANA Corps has three brigades in Helmand, and the Taliban doesn't like fighting them. Rather the Taliban tries to intimidate soft targets such as civilians.
"I'm for anand's worst case and "close to the worst case" scenarios."
So you favor the ANSF and ISAF ceding large parts of the South and smaller pockets of the east to the Taliban while concentrating their forces in the rest of the country? Later as the ANSF grows in size and quality it gradually captures the east and south with ISAF trainers, advisers and combat enablers.
Many ANSF, ISAF, and Afghans prefer this strategy. However this strategy means dooming Afghanistan and Pakistan to a very long and bloody war.
McChrystal, hand-picked by Obama for the Afghanistan campaign.
Then McChrystal expresses his contempt for Obama /et al./ behind Obama's back, becoming an opportunistic back-stabber like so many other modern Democrats.
Obama has no choice but to replace him with Petraeus, who has both the knowledge and the experience of how to win a war campaign. Petraeus, the subject of Moveon.org's infamous "Betray Us" ads (now opportunistically scrubbed from Moveon.org's website).
I think this is the first, non-Congressional sign that the Democrats have over-played their hand.
Posted by: gus3 at June 23, 2010 10:26 pm
Then McChrystal expresses his contempt for Obama /et al./ behind Obama's back, becoming an opportunistic back-stabber like so many other modern Democrats.
Obama has no choice but to replace him with Petraeus, who has both the knowledge and the experience of how to win a war campaign. Petraeus, the subject of Moveon.org's infamous "Betray Us" ads (now opportunistically scrubbed from Moveon.org's website).
I think this is the first, non-Congressional sign that the Democrats have over-played their hand.
General P. has insisted he doesn't have political ambitions---but so did Ike.
Posted by: Paul S. at June 23, 2010 10:26 pm
Overplayed their hand or not, controversial or not, good approach or not, the military has to follow civilian orders - not argue with them. If they want to argue with them they can go talk to Congress, give feedback and influence, and/or quit.
Anything else hints at the military going rogue, and anywhere else we'd call that the beginning of a coup.
Give the prez credit (in this rare case where it's due). He didn't get vindictive, he didn't trash the general, he and his people didn't bad mouth the military (a traditional liberal response). He straightforwardly ordered him in and offered him the door. And had a replacement appointment waiting.
The reason Michael calls this a good decision is because of watching (on the ground there) the change General Petraeus made in Iraq. He figured out how to work within the cultural environment, get the locals to back his goals, and focus the force applied to where it would make the most impact in the cultural context.
I wish the General the best of luck. To make positive gains with the "deadline" for departure looming may be an insurmountable challenge.
Posted by: Akiva at June 24, 2010 2:23 am
Anything else hints at the military going rogue, and anywhere else we'd call that the beginning of a coup.
Give the prez credit (in this rare case where it's due). He didn't get vindictive, he didn't trash the general, he and his people didn't bad mouth the military (a traditional liberal response). He straightforwardly ordered him in and offered him the door. And had a replacement appointment waiting.
The reason Michael calls this a good decision is because of watching (on the ground there) the change General Petraeus made in Iraq. He figured out how to work within the cultural environment, get the locals to back his goals, and focus the force applied to where it would make the most impact in the cultural context.
I wish the General the best of luck. To make positive gains with the "deadline" for departure looming may be an insurmountable challenge.
Patraeus should get whatever he wants now since he agreed to this nonsense. And it is all nonsense with the idiotic RoE.
He should demand the timetable be eliminated and if Obama keeps it in place, Patraeus should resign.
It's almost certain neither of those things will happen tho, and more kids will die for no good reason.
Patraeus must know this is FUBAR, he simply must know that. This isn't Iraq.
btw, has Obama admitted yet that the Iraq surge succeeded? I must have missed that.
Posted by: Brian at June 24, 2010 3:37 am
He should demand the timetable be eliminated and if Obama keeps it in place, Patraeus should resign.
It's almost certain neither of those things will happen tho, and more kids will die for no good reason.
Patraeus must know this is FUBAR, he simply must know that. This isn't Iraq.
btw, has Obama admitted yet that the Iraq surge succeeded? I must have missed that.
I'm going to posit that Doc P stepped down to take the job because nobody else was willing to step up.
I was in the Mad Dawg Mattis camp...
===
Worst case scenario is ANA units openly switching sides (another of those long Afghan traditions). Which is going to come sooner rather then later the way things are currently going. The ANP is already untrustworthy.
Wanat? COP Keating?
http://www.longwarjournal.org/cgi-bin/mt-search.cgi?tag=Afghanistan&blog_id=7
They mass when and where they want to. They choose the battles and the battlefields.
MOMENTUM,
R
Posted by: Render at June 24, 2010 4:14 am
I was in the Mad Dawg Mattis camp...
===
Worst case scenario is ANA units openly switching sides (another of those long Afghan traditions). Which is going to come sooner rather then later the way things are currently going. The ANP is already untrustworthy.
Wanat? COP Keating?
http://www.longwarjournal.org/cgi-bin/mt-search.cgi?tag=Afghanistan&blog_id=7
They mass when and where they want to. They choose the battles and the battlefields.
MOMENTUM,
R
http://defensetech.org/2010/06/24/b-1b-lancer-fleet-to-the-boneyard/
Bad call, Mr. president.
Note how the article depicts the F-35, the cutting of Warthogs (want to provide close ground support with F-35s?). The B1 was thought to be involved in a new role for lasers and hypersonics. If drones are the answer to all this, what does that say?
Posted by: Maxtrue at June 24, 2010 6:20 am
Bad call, Mr. president.
Note how the article depicts the F-35, the cutting of Warthogs (want to provide close ground support with F-35s?). The B1 was thought to be involved in a new role for lasers and hypersonics. If drones are the answer to all this, what does that say?
"WHO WILL BE PETRAEUS' BOSS? – The consensus that began to emerge overnight is that it will be hard to put someone senior enough over Petraeus at Central Command. Officials and pundits alike tell POLITICO that Gates and Mullen will over the next several days look at a number of names of people, likely including John Allen, deputy commander of Central Command, now focused on Iran; Ray Odierno, commander of U.S. forces in Iraq; and Martin Dempsey, now at the Army’s TRADOC command. Jim Mattis, passed over for Marine commandant, could also get a look.
AAWWWKWARD – But most men have already worked for Petraeus in one form or another and just about anyone would find it odd to be in the position of supervising him. “Is anyone capable of taking over as [Petraeus’] boss?” one senior military official asks POLITICO. “I can’t imagine anybody being placed in that position right now.”
Politico
Posted by: Maxtrue at June 24, 2010 6:32 am
AAWWWKWARD – But most men have already worked for Petraeus in one form or another and just about anyone would find it odd to be in the position of supervising him. “Is anyone capable of taking over as [Petraeus’] boss?” one senior military official asks POLITICO. “I can’t imagine anybody being placed in that position right now.”
Politico
Obama has created a very big potential problem for the reasons discussed.....
This may have been the silver lining to the McChrystal cloud.....
Posted by: Maxtrue at June 24, 2010 6:34 am
This may have been the silver lining to the McChrystal cloud.....
I think McChrystal should be put in charge of the BP cleanup. I like the news stating day 66 of the BP disaster. It reminds me of the media counting the days of the Iranian hostage crisis. It is a good sign of a one term presidency
Posted by: True Kurd at June 24, 2010 7:15 am
Actuallu he should go back to doing what he did best....killing AQ in black ops far from reporters....and far from Yon...lol
Posted by: Maxtrue at June 24, 2010 7:29 am
http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2010/06/does-petraeus-mean-a-return-to-all-out-war/
Posted by: Maxtrue at June 24, 2010 7:30 am
http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/06/24/mcchrystal.gates.support/?hpt=T1
Posted by: Maxtrue at June 24, 2010 7:45 am
Before everyone gets too excited about Gen.Petraeus taking over, keep in mind that Petraeus developed the Af-Pak strategy with McChrystal alongside other COIN experts over at CNAS, and that you wont see any dramatic changes being done to the overall strategy or tactics.
The key question that hasnt been answered by the President and the top administration, is whether our mission in Afghanistan is sustainable and achievable. We have much data to support that the answer is no.
But even ignoring this, we have laid out mission objectives poorly, and in cases where we do have properly defined objectives, the details are vague and would require years if not decades of metrics to measure any form of success.
Posted by: Mike R at June 24, 2010 9:27 am
The key question that hasnt been answered by the President and the top administration, is whether our mission in Afghanistan is sustainable and achievable. We have much data to support that the answer is no.
But even ignoring this, we have laid out mission objectives poorly, and in cases where we do have properly defined objectives, the details are vague and would require years if not decades of metrics to measure any form of success.
Obama was right to get rid of McChrystal. Obama is the Commander in Chief. He may be a screw-up but he is the Commander in Chief. McChystal publicly criticized and insulted his Commander in Chief in the same manner as McArthur did to Truman. This is insubordination and is unacceptable.
Obama responded in the same manner as Truman and rightfully so.
Posted by: Abelard Lindsey at June 24, 2010 9:36 am
Obama responded in the same manner as Truman and rightfully so.
Helpful discussion because this is a tricky moment. Obama surprised me by picking the best man for the job - the one guy who just might win it. Surprised because I haven't seem much evidence of Obama really being interested and appointing Petraeus seems a clear sign that he may be keener to win that he has appeared. Losing wars is a sure road to political defeat and I think he knows it. So it will not be easy nor will withdrawing next year win it - that is a sure road to defeat. If Obama insists on withdrawal does Petraeus resign? If Petraeus can get things on the right track does Obama become more flexible? Remember how Milaki was fighting with Petraeus during the early part of the surge and demanding Bush fire him? (Bush told Miliki to settle down.) Will Petraeus manage to get Karzai on side? Will he have an ambassador like Crocker he can work with productively? For me I want the US to win and so I hope Petraeus succeeds. It also will be interesting to see if Aussie advisor David Kilcullen returns to the fray at the good general's side.
Posted by: Lorenz Gude at June 24, 2010 10:25 am
I think Obama has already given up on Afghanistan so his decision to fire McChrystal is a win/win. The left hasn't lost a war since Viet Nam so Afghanistan is looking GOOD!
Posted by: TheHat at June 24, 2010 12:18 pm
Maxtrue,
“Is anyone capable of taking over as [Petraeus’] boss?” one senior military official asks POLITICO. “I can’t imagine anybody being placed in that position right now.”
Maybe it's time to think outside the box and put a civilian such as Bill Ayers in charge of CENTCOM.
Don't say I didn't warn you :P
Actuallu he should go back to doing what he did best....killing AQ in black ops far from reporters....and far from Yon...lol
Again, I think this situation calls for thinking outside the box:
Video: Cops arrest Christians for handing out gospel at Dearborn Arab festival?
After reading that, I'm starting to believe that America needs a task force to combat radical Islam inside the United States. McChrystal would be the perfect guy for the job. He could have FBI, INS and even CIA assets working for him, as well as a carte blanche from the justice department, and he could have some of his old buddies from special ops to do the wetwork.
The US Federal Government is obviously disinclined to protect the constitutional rights of citizens in jurisdictions that are under Arab occupation (Eric Holder, where you at?) so obviously the solution to the violation of people's constitutional, civil and human rights at the hands of police and government officials must be military in nature. And McChrystal has already demonstrated his willingness to go against civilian authorities.
What's that you say? Checks and balances? We don't need no steenkin' checks and balances when the federal government can't be bothered to do it's job. Did the feds do anything about Bill Ayers and other radical Americans from organizing terror attacks on US allies?
And don't be surprised when the chosen one decides to go with some variation on this, but instead of upholding the rule of law and protecting the rights of Americans he uses such a tool to go after people who oppose his wonderful policies.
I don't know why people keep comparing Obama to Carter. The US is never going to be the same post-Obama as it was before. Hope and change, don't you know!
Posted by: Craig at June 24, 2010 12:24 pm
“Is anyone capable of taking over as [Petraeus’] boss?” one senior military official asks POLITICO. “I can’t imagine anybody being placed in that position right now.”
Maybe it's time to think outside the box and put a civilian such as Bill Ayers in charge of CENTCOM.
Don't say I didn't warn you :P
Actuallu he should go back to doing what he did best....killing AQ in black ops far from reporters....and far from Yon...lol
Again, I think this situation calls for thinking outside the box:
Video: Cops arrest Christians for handing out gospel at Dearborn Arab festival?
After reading that, I'm starting to believe that America needs a task force to combat radical Islam inside the United States. McChrystal would be the perfect guy for the job. He could have FBI, INS and even CIA assets working for him, as well as a carte blanche from the justice department, and he could have some of his old buddies from special ops to do the wetwork.
The US Federal Government is obviously disinclined to protect the constitutional rights of citizens in jurisdictions that are under Arab occupation (Eric Holder, where you at?) so obviously the solution to the violation of people's constitutional, civil and human rights at the hands of police and government officials must be military in nature. And McChrystal has already demonstrated his willingness to go against civilian authorities.
What's that you say? Checks and balances? We don't need no steenkin' checks and balances when the federal government can't be bothered to do it's job. Did the feds do anything about Bill Ayers and other radical Americans from organizing terror attacks on US allies?
And don't be surprised when the chosen one decides to go with some variation on this, but instead of upholding the rule of law and protecting the rights of Americans he uses such a tool to go after people who oppose his wonderful policies.
I don't know why people keep comparing Obama to Carter. The US is never going to be the same post-Obama as it was before. Hope and change, don't you know!
By the way, I think it's totally cool for the US military to be building so many drones! Lets see how fast Dearborn cops can arrest Christians for being Christians in a "no Christians allowed" zone while they are dodging hellfire missiles!
And the best part about that is everyone can pretend they don't know WTF happened, since the drone operator may be sitting someplace in Paris at the time of the... incident...
Government is really great once everyone in the government decides it's OK to start breaking the rules.
Posted by: Craig at June 24, 2010 12:36 pm
And the best part about that is everyone can pretend they don't know WTF happened, since the drone operator may be sitting someplace in Paris at the time of the... incident...
Government is really great once everyone in the government decides it's OK to start breaking the rules.
"btw, has Obama admitted yet that the Iraq surge succeeded? I must have missed that."
General P. goes to Afghan, doesn't he.
Posted by: leo at June 24, 2010 1:55 pm
General P. goes to Afghan, doesn't he.
Craig, a special black ops justice department force.....yep, something McC could do...
No problem with more drones as long as the other critical stuff isn't cut...
What's worse, it was outside the festival. The double standard is pathetic, but things will change. The America that's sleeping now, will be rudely awakened. Those that unwrote our history will not described in nice terms y those that will write it....
Posted by: Maxtrue at June 24, 2010 2:57 pm
No problem with more drones as long as the other critical stuff isn't cut...
What's worse, it was outside the festival. The double standard is pathetic, but things will change. The America that's sleeping now, will be rudely awakened. Those that unwrote our history will not described in nice terms y those that will write it....
"Those that "unwrote" our history will not be described in nice terms by those that will write it..." corrected...
Posted by: Maxtrue at June 24, 2010 3:27 pm
Frankly, unless we've ourselves had flag rank command experience in Asia, have been exposed to feckless politicians with no background, have been subject to the responsibilities associated with leading men into combat; or even been elected to anything ourselves; we really are in no position to judge the context of a four star Army General's private comments...or those of his staff...to say anything here at all.
Further, comments which were overheard by others, and some of which intemperately said bluntly to an anti-war reporter working for an anti-war publication generally thought to be concerned with blasting rock and its contemporary "Scene". And, virally spread instantly by an eager, voracious media.
And...we permit this ignominious end to a career? Where's any sense of proportion?
This whole tragic thing has been very badly handled, and too publicly. Obama is indeed Commander in Chief of the Armed
Forces. But citing a source such as "Rolling Stone", of all publications, for removing a very well thought of general officer, in the middle of a war because of some intemperate comments is bizarre.
There simply is no comparing the totally different backgrounds of Lincoln and McClellan, or Truman and MacArthur.
Frankly, this firing reflects a lot more badly on Obama's smallness than it does on General McCrystal
Posted by: Hrothgar at June 24, 2010 5:19 pm
Further, comments which were overheard by others, and some of which intemperately said bluntly to an anti-war reporter working for an anti-war publication generally thought to be concerned with blasting rock and its contemporary "Scene". And, virally spread instantly by an eager, voracious media.
And...we permit this ignominious end to a career? Where's any sense of proportion?
This whole tragic thing has been very badly handled, and too publicly. Obama is indeed Commander in Chief of the Armed
Forces. But citing a source such as "Rolling Stone", of all publications, for removing a very well thought of general officer, in the middle of a war because of some intemperate comments is bizarre.
There simply is no comparing the totally different backgrounds of Lincoln and McClellan, or Truman and MacArthur.
Frankly, this firing reflects a lot more badly on Obama's smallness than it does on General McCrystal
As long as an American wears the uniform his personal thoughts about his job should remain private.
Posted by: Paul S. at June 24, 2010 5:55 pm
I remember General Norman Schwarzkopf had some unambiguous thoughts on the subject you could Google.
Posted by: Paul S. at June 24, 2010 5:58 pm
Hrothgar, while I understand your view and it is not that far from mine, there is some history here.
The war in not popular. It is not going very well. McChrystal has some previous history. The media jumped all over this claiming Obama would look weak if he didn't fire the General. Civilians are in charge...
"This story tops weeks of terrible news pouring out of Afghanistan, including: the delay of the Kandahar security operation and a lack of support from tribal leaders in the province; the difficulty in securing Marja; Afghan President Hamid Karzai's loss of confidence in the US and NATO; the resignation of the Afghan Interior Minister and the chief of the National Directorate of Intelligence, two pro-American officials who are anti-Taliban hawks; General David Petraeus' fainting spell during testimony before Congress on the course of the war; and the report that the military is in effect funding the insurgency through transportation contracts." Long War Journal
If McChrystal wanted to make a powerful point to the wimpy administration, he would have flown to the DC meeting and behind closed doors told the task force what he thought and tendered his resignation. He would have used the Rolling Stone to set up a sympathetic case for his frustration and talked to Petraeus before unloading any bombshells on POTUS and company. Certainly the tactics used got nowhere and all the bad players remain in place.
Is it smallness that is the vice, or a Strategy declared "the central front in the GWOT" as Obama once claimed getting elected? Or is the truth the war described at the Daily Beast? If that is the case, Obama's fault isn't pettiness, but rather disingenuousness. McChrystal was ultimately caught in a conflict the President isn't committed to win. Its an old story though. Rolling Stone plays Martin Sheen with a pen and McChrystal, Brando.
Posted by: Maxtrue at June 24, 2010 6:05 pm
The war in not popular. It is not going very well. McChrystal has some previous history. The media jumped all over this claiming Obama would look weak if he didn't fire the General. Civilians are in charge...
"This story tops weeks of terrible news pouring out of Afghanistan, including: the delay of the Kandahar security operation and a lack of support from tribal leaders in the province; the difficulty in securing Marja; Afghan President Hamid Karzai's loss of confidence in the US and NATO; the resignation of the Afghan Interior Minister and the chief of the National Directorate of Intelligence, two pro-American officials who are anti-Taliban hawks; General David Petraeus' fainting spell during testimony before Congress on the course of the war; and the report that the military is in effect funding the insurgency through transportation contracts." Long War Journal
If McChrystal wanted to make a powerful point to the wimpy administration, he would have flown to the DC meeting and behind closed doors told the task force what he thought and tendered his resignation. He would have used the Rolling Stone to set up a sympathetic case for his frustration and talked to Petraeus before unloading any bombshells on POTUS and company. Certainly the tactics used got nowhere and all the bad players remain in place.
Is it smallness that is the vice, or a Strategy declared "the central front in the GWOT" as Obama once claimed getting elected? Or is the truth the war described at the Daily Beast? If that is the case, Obama's fault isn't pettiness, but rather disingenuousness. McChrystal was ultimately caught in a conflict the President isn't committed to win. Its an old story though. Rolling Stone plays Martin Sheen with a pen and McChrystal, Brando.
Michael Yon was on Dennis Miller's radio show today and posted a statement about General Petraeus:
"It Is Not Hopeful, Just Extremely Bad"
http://tinyurl.com/24c9sqr
Posted by: Paul S. at June 24, 2010 8:41 pm
"It Is Not Hopeful, Just Extremely Bad"
http://tinyurl.com/24c9sqr
Their typo: "Hopeful" should be "hopeless."
Posted by: Paul S. at June 24, 2010 8:44 pm
"Rolling Stone plays Martin Sheen with a pen and McChrystal, Brando."
Ah, "the smell of naphalm in the morning..." Love Robert Duvall.
Posted by: Paul S. at June 24, 2010 8:53 pm
Ah, "the smell of naphalm in the morning..." Love Robert Duvall.
I always figured Sheen must have been pissed at Coppola, seeing how much work he did in that picture and how much Brando got paid.
Posted by: Paul S. at June 24, 2010 8:57 pm
Maybe I should read "Heart of Darkness" again, for contemporary insight.
Posted by: Paul S. at June 24, 2010 9:01 pm
Hrothgar,
Frankly, unless we've ourselves had flag rank command experience in Asia, have been exposed to feckless politicians with no background, have been subject to the responsibilities associated with leading men into combat; or even been elected to anything ourselves; we really are in no position to judge the context of a four star Army General's private comments...or those of his staff...to say anything here at all.
Sorry but that's a bunch of bullshit :)
Not only that, it's a very childish response to criticism. Unless the person complaining can do it themselves - or has done it themselves - then they aren't qualified to have an opinion about performance? I wonder what would happen if I tried that with the next person who claimed to have found some bugs in my code? I wonder what would happen if MJT tried to claim nobody could have an opinion about his his book unless they were published authors themselves?
I'm having trouble even believing you're serious with that argument.
Posted by: Craig at June 25, 2010 2:23 am
Frankly, unless we've ourselves had flag rank command experience in Asia, have been exposed to feckless politicians with no background, have been subject to the responsibilities associated with leading men into combat; or even been elected to anything ourselves; we really are in no position to judge the context of a four star Army General's private comments...or those of his staff...to say anything here at all.
Sorry but that's a bunch of bullshit :)
Not only that, it's a very childish response to criticism. Unless the person complaining can do it themselves - or has done it themselves - then they aren't qualified to have an opinion about performance? I wonder what would happen if I tried that with the next person who claimed to have found some bugs in my code? I wonder what would happen if MJT tried to claim nobody could have an opinion about his his book unless they were published authors themselves?
I'm having trouble even believing you're serious with that argument.
And...we permit this ignominious end to a career? Where's any sense of proportion?
By the way, Hrothgar, this was merely the latest incident of many. And there's a pattern of progressive escalation that's worth noting. If he'd been allowed to get away with this latest and most severe eruption it's a near certainty that it would have happened again and that the next time it would have been even worse.
And it doesn't take an expert on military matters to recognize that. It just takes somebody who has been an observer of human nature for any period of time.
Posted by: Craig at June 25, 2010 2:29 am
By the way, Hrothgar, this was merely the latest incident of many. And there's a pattern of progressive escalation that's worth noting. If he'd been allowed to get away with this latest and most severe eruption it's a near certainty that it would have happened again and that the next time it would have been even worse.
And it doesn't take an expert on military matters to recognize that. It just takes somebody who has been an observer of human nature for any period of time.
Howard Cosell was in no position to comment about sports?
John Keegan was in no position to write military history?
Rolling Stone shouldn't comment about being on stage in front of tens of thousands?
Those who cannot; teach. Those who cannot teach; critisize.
FACE
VALUE,
R
Posted by: Render at June 25, 2010 3:46 am
John Keegan was in no position to write military history?
Rolling Stone shouldn't comment about being on stage in front of tens of thousands?
Those who cannot; teach. Those who cannot teach; critisize.
FACE
VALUE,
R
Right, Render. And I suppose I should tell the folks in QA that since they've never been programmers they aren't qualified to comment on the quality of my code, eh? :D
Or maybe we should tell people that they only get to vote if they've held elective office?
And so on. I don't usually disagree with you but if you're claiming that nobody gets to object to McChrystal's behavior unless they've been field officers in the US military then I'm definitely disagreeing with you now.
And by the way, what gives McChrystal the right to critique diplomats? Has he ever been a diplomat?
Posted by: Craig at June 25, 2010 4:55 am
Or maybe we should tell people that they only get to vote if they've held elective office?
And so on. I don't usually disagree with you but if you're claiming that nobody gets to object to McChrystal's behavior unless they've been field officers in the US military then I'm definitely disagreeing with you now.
And by the way, what gives McChrystal the right to critique diplomats? Has he ever been a diplomat?
Craig, Render was agreeing with you. Howard never played sports but he certainly commented on it....
Keegan never fought in a war, but she wrote about military history.
Yeah, I'm going out for some coffee too....
But if its any consolation, you nailed it in your previous posts....
Posted by: Maxtrue at June 25, 2010 5:09 am
Keegan never fought in a war, but she wrote about military history.
Yeah, I'm going out for some coffee too....
But if its any consolation, you nailed it in your previous posts....
He, not she....see? That coffee......later
Posted by: Maxtrue at June 25, 2010 5:16 am
Craig;
Hmmph, well, as a QA person, there are programmers who just slap stuff together without regard to what else it might affect (with the understanding that QA WILL find all the bugs and if QA doesn’t, well, then you can just blame them for the outcome), the ornery programmers who take critiques personally, and the programmers who are very very good and make my day rather boring because I just can’t break their code.
Here’s hoping you’re among the last :-)
Posted by: Toady at June 25, 2010 6:02 am
Hmmph, well, as a QA person, there are programmers who just slap stuff together without regard to what else it might affect (with the understanding that QA WILL find all the bugs and if QA doesn’t, well, then you can just blame them for the outcome), the ornery programmers who take critiques personally, and the programmers who are very very good and make my day rather boring because I just can’t break their code.
Here’s hoping you’re among the last :-)
http://www.informationdissemination.net/2010/06/mission-unfinished.html
Posted by: Maxtrue at June 25, 2010 7:32 am
http://www.navy.mil/view_single.asp?id=87374
Marine concepts at work....see the article as information dissemination...
Posted by: Maxtrue at June 25, 2010 7:35 am
Marine concepts at work....see the article as information dissemination...
http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/asiapcf/06/25/islamist.websites.afghanistan/
Well, this was expected....
Posted by: Maxtrue at June 25, 2010 7:53 am
Well, this was expected....
http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/n.php?n=turkish-army-begins-training-afghan-leaders-senior-nato-commander-2010-06-19
The Turks have been unresponsive to questions about their contribution to Afghanistan. ISAF, RC-East and NTM-A have also claimed to lack visibility into Turkish training of the ANSF in the past, but that appears to be changing.
Turkey appears to be surging trainers into Afghanistan. There are reports that Erdogan is seriously considering a NATO request to surge Turkey's commitment in Afghanistan. If Erdogan does this, may God bless him.
If some theatrics on Gaza are the price for a Turkish surge into Afghanistan, then it is worth it. Israel should make an apology and be done with it. They only words.
Afghanistan/Pakistan are far more important to the world than Palestine/Israel and their stupid fight, mostly about nothing.
Israel has to remember that it is a Turkish client state, as is the PA, Hamas, Lebanon, Jordan and the broader region. Turkey is the regional superpower. The greater middle east, Balkans [Albania, Kosovo, Bosnia], and Central Asia [Stans, Azerbaijan, Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan] are part of Iran's sphere of interest and influence.
Is the regional hegemon a little irrational, unreasonable, and unpredictable? Sure. That is life. However a wise country sucks it up and at least publicly strokes the ego of the regional hegemon.
Turkey has a trillion dollar GDP, more than $250 billion in international trade, more than $200 billion in foreign direct investment. Istanbul alone has more than 35 billionaires. Turkey has the largest and most capable military [excluding nuclear weapons] in its broader neighborhood. Turkey rightfully expects to be treated as a great global power that transforms the world through its own actions.
Ahmeninijad has gained a lot by publicly being obsequious and publicly brown nosing the Turks. Shouldn't Israel do the same?
Posted by: anan at June 25, 2010 8:24 am
The Turks have been unresponsive to questions about their contribution to Afghanistan. ISAF, RC-East and NTM-A have also claimed to lack visibility into Turkish training of the ANSF in the past, but that appears to be changing.
Turkey appears to be surging trainers into Afghanistan. There are reports that Erdogan is seriously considering a NATO request to surge Turkey's commitment in Afghanistan. If Erdogan does this, may God bless him.
If some theatrics on Gaza are the price for a Turkish surge into Afghanistan, then it is worth it. Israel should make an apology and be done with it. They only words.
Afghanistan/Pakistan are far more important to the world than Palestine/Israel and their stupid fight, mostly about nothing.
Israel has to remember that it is a Turkish client state, as is the PA, Hamas, Lebanon, Jordan and the broader region. Turkey is the regional superpower. The greater middle east, Balkans [Albania, Kosovo, Bosnia], and Central Asia [Stans, Azerbaijan, Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan] are part of Iran's sphere of interest and influence.
Is the regional hegemon a little irrational, unreasonable, and unpredictable? Sure. That is life. However a wise country sucks it up and at least publicly strokes the ego of the regional hegemon.
Turkey has a trillion dollar GDP, more than $250 billion in international trade, more than $200 billion in foreign direct investment. Istanbul alone has more than 35 billionaires. Turkey has the largest and most capable military [excluding nuclear weapons] in its broader neighborhood. Turkey rightfully expects to be treated as a great global power that transforms the world through its own actions.
Ahmeninijad has gained a lot by publicly being obsequious and publicly brown nosing the Turks. Shouldn't Israel do the same?
Anan, your comments are no longer surprising. I have lowered my expectations of your intelligence to zero. But keep it up and I'll start to apply negative numbers......
Posted by: Maxtrue at June 25, 2010 9:07 am
Maxtrue, what do you disagree with? Turkey has been one of the fastest growing economies in the world since 2002. That is the reality. Open your eyes.
Israel's perceptions are not as important as the interests of the NATO alliance, America, and the world as a whole. The greatest security threat in the world today comes from Takfiri extremists. Israel has to make difficult concessions to facilitate the defeat of the global Takfiri networks.
This is in Israel's interests, because the Takfiris wish to smash and subjugate all Jews [the large majority of which are not Israeli.]
Posted by: anan at June 25, 2010 9:31 am
Israel's perceptions are not as important as the interests of the NATO alliance, America, and the world as a whole. The greatest security threat in the world today comes from Takfiri extremists. Israel has to make difficult concessions to facilitate the defeat of the global Takfiri networks.
This is in Israel's interests, because the Takfiris wish to smash and subjugate all Jews [the large majority of which are not Israeli.]
anand sez, "Israel has to remember that it is a Turkish client state..."
Uttered stupidity.
Posted by: del at June 25, 2010 9:45 am
Uttered stupidity.
Too bad the guy who hired McCrystal doesn't resign, too -- but Biden as his replacement is almost too scary to think about.
Michael, you've been pretty quiet for the last year on your thoughts about Af-Pak and McCrystal's performance.
Why is that? We miss your opinions, and especially your reasoning behind those opinions.
On the other hand, we're also waiting for the book...
Posted by: Toothless? at June 25, 2010 9:55 am
Michael, you've been pretty quiet for the last year on your thoughts about Af-Pak and McCrystal's performance.
Why is that? We miss your opinions, and especially your reasoning behind those opinions.
On the other hand, we're also waiting for the book...
Why is that?
Two reasons. First, I've been writing a book, which is now about two days from being finished.
Second, I have never been to Afghanistan and shouldn't comment much on McChrystal's performance.
I sure like Petraeus, though.
Posted by: Michael J. Totten at June 25, 2010 11:37 am
Two reasons. First, I've been writing a book, which is now about two days from being finished.
Second, I have never been to Afghanistan and shouldn't comment much on McChrystal's performance.
I sure like Petraeus, though.
Smart Michael, as I think most here have refrained on commenting about that too. And most have less than a fraction of your travel experience. In fact the whole mess got me to look much deeper into what is actually taking place.
I understand why you didn't take up than Yon question...
Anan, Del mentioned just one of your profound insights. And don't think I am unaware of your travels over at Defense Tech....
Posted by: Maxtrue at June 25, 2010 12:16 pm
I understand why you didn't take up than Yon question...
Anan, Del mentioned just one of your profound insights. And don't think I am unaware of your travels over at Defense Tech....
...The comment I made earlier about those of us commenters here who've never had command responsibilities in combat offering up outsider opinions about combat generals' staffs' dumb renmarks is reinforced by those citing here Howard Cosell and computer code writers as parallel examples on the same scale. Those names collectively are an absurd comparison.
It appears then that the Lady Gaga generation and mindset has taken over an even firmer grasp on the media in general than I'd thought possible.
I was obviously unsuccessful earlier in trying to make the point that the general's staff's dumb adolescent comments being rehashed and combined with his own blunt comments, and then actually published in an Enquirer level tabloid like the rock magazine "Rolling Stone"; and such an unlikely result as that general then being fired.. indicate to me the alarming descent of our media. Good grief..."Rolling Stone" has a wider, more influential readership that I thought possible.
If that is indeed our new media reality, if the likes of "Rolling Stone" are seen as the influential opinion makers, then we as a nation really are in bad shape; Obama and the Lady Gaga media being then just the superficial malignant symptoms.
Posted by: Hrothgar at June 25, 2010 12:18 pm
It appears then that the Lady Gaga generation and mindset has taken over an even firmer grasp on the media in general than I'd thought possible.
I was obviously unsuccessful earlier in trying to make the point that the general's staff's dumb adolescent comments being rehashed and combined with his own blunt comments, and then actually published in an Enquirer level tabloid like the rock magazine "Rolling Stone"; and such an unlikely result as that general then being fired.. indicate to me the alarming descent of our media. Good grief..."Rolling Stone" has a wider, more influential readership that I thought possible.
If that is indeed our new media reality, if the likes of "Rolling Stone" are seen as the influential opinion makers, then we as a nation really are in bad shape; Obama and the Lady Gaga media being then just the superficial malignant symptoms.
Hrothgar, you're not going to get much disagreement here about the state of media or the dangerous effects. You seem shocked by what we all already know. The problem is that such an important General should at least know what you already do.....
And there's the problem, or at least one them.
Posted by: Maxtrue at June 25, 2010 12:34 pm
And there's the problem, or at least one them.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/south_asia/10418643.stm
This site could be banned....I suppose
Posted by: Maxtrue at June 25, 2010 12:51 pm
This site could be banned....I suppose
If some theatrics on Gaza are the price for a Turkish surge into Afghanistan, then it is worth it. Israel should make an apology and be done with it. They only words.
Israel will apologize the day you stop sounding like a syphillitic moron. And nobody is holding his or her breath over that.
============================
Afghanistan/Pakistan are far more important to the world than Palestine/Israel and their stupid fight, mostly about nothing.
Israel fights to protect the lives of her citizens from genocidal terrorists. To people who actually care about human lives, it's not "nothing". You insult the memory of those murdered in the name of "Palestine", and in the name of Islam, and in the name of "anti-Zionism".
I know I speak for many others when I say with utmost sincerity: Fuck you asshole.
============================
Israel has to remember that it is a Turkish client state.
LOL
============================
Is the regional hegemon a little irrational, unreasonable, and unpredictable? Sure. That is life. However a wise country sucks it up and at least publicly strokes the ego of the regional hegemon.
I got something for you to stroke right here.
=============================
Turkey rightfully expects to be treated as a great global power that transforms the world through its own actions.
Turkey is well on its way to being treated as a shit-bag terror-sponsoring disgrace.
==============================
Ahmeninijad has gained a lot by publicly being obsequious and publicly brown nosing the Turks. Shouldn't Israel do the same
Keep hope alive!
Posted by: Li'l Mamzer at June 25, 2010 12:54 pm
Israel will apologize the day you stop sounding like a syphillitic moron. And nobody is holding his or her breath over that.
============================
Afghanistan/Pakistan are far more important to the world than Palestine/Israel and their stupid fight, mostly about nothing.
Israel fights to protect the lives of her citizens from genocidal terrorists. To people who actually care about human lives, it's not "nothing". You insult the memory of those murdered in the name of "Palestine", and in the name of Islam, and in the name of "anti-Zionism".
I know I speak for many others when I say with utmost sincerity: Fuck you asshole.
============================
Israel has to remember that it is a Turkish client state.
LOL
============================
Is the regional hegemon a little irrational, unreasonable, and unpredictable? Sure. That is life. However a wise country sucks it up and at least publicly strokes the ego of the regional hegemon.
I got something for you to stroke right here.
=============================
Turkey rightfully expects to be treated as a great global power that transforms the world through its own actions.
Turkey is well on its way to being treated as a shit-bag terror-sponsoring disgrace.
==============================
Ahmeninijad has gained a lot by publicly being obsequious and publicly brown nosing the Turks. Shouldn't Israel do the same
Keep hope alive!
Well, let's take a look at what Turkey is supporting...
http://palwatch.org/main.aspx?fi=157&doc_id=2482
Posted by: Maxtrue at June 25, 2010 12:58 pm
http://palwatch.org/main.aspx?fi=157&doc_id=2482
You know Anand, I like your posts. They provide a touch of humour, mostly bullshit, but still humour; you know like a man falling down a open man-hole.
As for brown nosing... The only brown nosing I can see in Erdogan when he takes his head out of his ass!
Posted by: jb at June 25, 2010 1:14 pm
As for brown nosing... The only brown nosing I can see in Erdogan when he takes his head out of his ass!
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2010/06/on_journolist_and_dave_weigel.html
for Hrothgar
Posted by: Maxtrue at June 25, 2010 1:17 pm
for Hrothgar
If you didn't know what Weigel was doing as Wapo's conservative coverage guy: http://dailycaller.com/2010/06/25/emails-reveal-post-reporter-savaging-conservatives-rooting-for-democrats/print/
Posted by: Maxtrue at June 25, 2010 1:53 pm
General Petraeus should be paying attention to the character below
Yasser Kashlak
Yasser Kashlak is a Lebanese businessman from Palestinian descent born in Syria in 1971. Yasser Kashlak writes columns for a number of Lebanese papers and even publishes a little-known daily in Lebanon. He is known as an up and coming leader of the Palestinian refugees, with strong ties inside the Syrian regime, the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine, the Syrian Ba'ath Party and the Iranian Vice-President, Reza Mir Tajeddini. Yasser Kashlak has consistently opposed the peace process with Israel.
On 08/14/2009 Yasser Kashlak published a letter expressing support for Hassan Nasrallah, the Hizbullah leader in Lebanon. Yasser Kashlak is also helping to finance a Palestinian monitoring group which documents alleged violation of human rights by Jewish settlers in the Palestinian territories.
Since early 06/2010 Yasser Kashlak, heads the “Free Palestine Organization” and put himself openly behind a so called another humanitarian aid flotilla set to leave from Beirut to Gaza by late 06/2010. The voyage was announced less than a day after Hassan Nasrallah appealed for more flotillas to head for Gaza following the IHH - Charity flotilla to Gaza, on 05/31/2010. In an interview to the Lebanese Hizbullah owned Al-Manar TV channel, when asked if he does not fear that Israel will confiscate his ships, in a free translation from Arabic he said: The ships as well as many other ships from many flotillas yet to come will accumulate in Israeli harbors, and, with God will, we will, eventually, use them to send the Israelis back to the countries they came from in Europe and Poland. But even there we will go after them because of the crimes they did in Palestine.
One of the ships in the flotilla organized by Yasser Kashlak, the Mariam, is supposed to carry a group of 70 Muslim and Christian women, headed by Samar al-Hajj a former Lebanese journalist. Samar al-Hajj is also the wife of a high-ranking officer in the Lebanese security forces, Ali Hajj who served a four-year prison term for his involvement in the assassination of former Prime Minister Rafik Hariri, in 02/2005, and was released a year ago. International investigation proved that the assassination was a joint operation of segments in the Lebanese security services with one of the Syrian intelligence organizations (see also -Hague 03.01.09).
Samar al-Hajj has recently told the Arab media in an interview that she belongs to a group of women of all ethnic backgrounds who had bound together due to their common hatred of Israel.
Posted by: True Kurd at June 25, 2010 3:00 pm
Yasser Kashlak
Yasser Kashlak is a Lebanese businessman from Palestinian descent born in Syria in 1971. Yasser Kashlak writes columns for a number of Lebanese papers and even publishes a little-known daily in Lebanon. He is known as an up and coming leader of the Palestinian refugees, with strong ties inside the Syrian regime, the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine, the Syrian Ba'ath Party and the Iranian Vice-President, Reza Mir Tajeddini. Yasser Kashlak has consistently opposed the peace process with Israel.
On 08/14/2009 Yasser Kashlak published a letter expressing support for Hassan Nasrallah, the Hizbullah leader in Lebanon. Yasser Kashlak is also helping to finance a Palestinian monitoring group which documents alleged violation of human rights by Jewish settlers in the Palestinian territories.
Since early 06/2010 Yasser Kashlak, heads the “Free Palestine Organization” and put himself openly behind a so called another humanitarian aid flotilla set to leave from Beirut to Gaza by late 06/2010. The voyage was announced less than a day after Hassan Nasrallah appealed for more flotillas to head for Gaza following the IHH - Charity flotilla to Gaza, on 05/31/2010. In an interview to the Lebanese Hizbullah owned Al-Manar TV channel, when asked if he does not fear that Israel will confiscate his ships, in a free translation from Arabic he said: The ships as well as many other ships from many flotillas yet to come will accumulate in Israeli harbors, and, with God will, we will, eventually, use them to send the Israelis back to the countries they came from in Europe and Poland. But even there we will go after them because of the crimes they did in Palestine.
One of the ships in the flotilla organized by Yasser Kashlak, the Mariam, is supposed to carry a group of 70 Muslim and Christian women, headed by Samar al-Hajj a former Lebanese journalist. Samar al-Hajj is also the wife of a high-ranking officer in the Lebanese security forces, Ali Hajj who served a four-year prison term for his involvement in the assassination of former Prime Minister Rafik Hariri, in 02/2005, and was released a year ago. International investigation proved that the assassination was a joint operation of segments in the Lebanese security services with one of the Syrian intelligence organizations (see also -Hague 03.01.09).
Samar al-Hajj has recently told the Arab media in an interview that she belongs to a group of women of all ethnic backgrounds who had bound together due to their common hatred of Israel.
....Maxtrue...
This headline..."Rolling Stone broke interview ground rules with McChrystal, military officials say"...
...appears just now on the Washington Post's website....by one Karen De Young, a Post Staff Writer. Readers here can look it up themselves via Google.
This whole thing I suspect will now be taking on the media-odor of zealous searching for something, anything, "new" to say by those who have only fleeting acquaintance with this grinding continuous war, for the current time limited to Central Asia.
This war is better fought over there than here. We've already had a dramatic domestic taste of this on 11 Sep'01.
I'm a native Washingtonian, that's "the District", and two or three days afterwards I was standing on the Terrace of the Kennedy Center during an intermission, and all of us standing there were looking cross the Potomac towards the Pentagon which was still smoking.
What does this have to do with Gen. McCrystal? A lot. It touches on the wartime reality which has been fading from our day to day thinking. We'll probably not get an unvarnished account of the background for his forced retirement. But,surely it doesn't warrant all of this breathless luridness.
But, to have the reality of a General Officer as a walking casualty of the political reality of this war being presented to us in this manner is a national disgrace.
I think this is not the last of this media milking of his personal tragedy. But I think also that time will be on Gen. McCrystal's side. There's always a lot we don't know at the outset of these types of things which gradually emerges to the embarassment of the early commenters.
Posted by: Hrothgar at June 25, 2010 3:32 pm
This headline..."Rolling Stone broke interview ground rules with McChrystal, military officials say"...
...appears just now on the Washington Post's website....by one Karen De Young, a Post Staff Writer. Readers here can look it up themselves via Google.
This whole thing I suspect will now be taking on the media-odor of zealous searching for something, anything, "new" to say by those who have only fleeting acquaintance with this grinding continuous war, for the current time limited to Central Asia.
This war is better fought over there than here. We've already had a dramatic domestic taste of this on 11 Sep'01.
I'm a native Washingtonian, that's "the District", and two or three days afterwards I was standing on the Terrace of the Kennedy Center during an intermission, and all of us standing there were looking cross the Potomac towards the Pentagon which was still smoking.
What does this have to do with Gen. McCrystal? A lot. It touches on the wartime reality which has been fading from our day to day thinking. We'll probably not get an unvarnished account of the background for his forced retirement. But,surely it doesn't warrant all of this breathless luridness.
But, to have the reality of a General Officer as a walking casualty of the political reality of this war being presented to us in this manner is a national disgrace.
I think this is not the last of this media milking of his personal tragedy. But I think also that time will be on Gen. McCrystal's side. There's always a lot we don't know at the outset of these types of things which gradually emerges to the embarassment of the early commenters.
Craig: Max is correct. I was agreeing with you. Stop looking at me like that, it makes me nervous.
Max: John Keegan is a he. Although with the Brits you never know whats going on behind closed doors...(you have the most amusing typos)
===
The Lady Gaga generation? And here I was worried that the Cosell/Keegan reference would date me...
===
David Weigal didn't get that assignment by accident. He was chosen for his particular skill set and motivations. His hit articles placement in Rolling Stone was also chosen expressly for its impact point.
During the Iraq Surge and its run-up, members of Petraeus's staff (Kilcullen among others) regularly savaged the 'W White House in print even as that same White House was giving them everything they asked for surge-wise.
===
I'm an American tax payer. My father was career Army. My step-son a US Marine.
I will comment, for better or worse, on the performance of this nations leading military officers and I will do so until the day I die.
Want me to stop? Bring bodybags, lots of them.
BITTER
CLINGER,
R
Posted by: Render at June 25, 2010 3:48 pm
Max: John Keegan is a he. Although with the Brits you never know whats going on behind closed doors...(you have the most amusing typos)
===
The Lady Gaga generation? And here I was worried that the Cosell/Keegan reference would date me...
===
David Weigal didn't get that assignment by accident. He was chosen for his particular skill set and motivations. His hit articles placement in Rolling Stone was also chosen expressly for its impact point.
During the Iraq Surge and its run-up, members of Petraeus's staff (Kilcullen among others) regularly savaged the 'W White House in print even as that same White House was giving them everything they asked for surge-wise.
===
I'm an American tax payer. My father was career Army. My step-son a US Marine.
I will comment, for better or worse, on the performance of this nations leading military officers and I will do so until the day I die.
Want me to stop? Bring bodybags, lots of them.
BITTER
CLINGER,
R
If some theatrics on Gaza are the price for a Turkish surge into Afghanistan, then it is worth it. Israel should make an apology and be done with it. They only words.
The Israelis should apologize for an act of aggression the Turks committed upon them? Do you realize how insane that is? Maybe the US should apologize to the Islamic world for 9/11 too? Wouldn't that help?
Afghanistan/Pakistan are far more important to the world than Palestine/Israel and their stupid fight, mostly about nothing.
Are you smoking something? If Afghanistan and Pakistan are so important to "the world" then the world better go do something about it. US out. India and China in.
There. I fixed it for you. Now the US can devote itself to matters that are more important to Americans, like Iranian nuclear weapons and North Korean insanity.
Posted by: Craig at June 25, 2010 3:59 pm
The Israelis should apologize for an act of aggression the Turks committed upon them? Do you realize how insane that is? Maybe the US should apologize to the Islamic world for 9/11 too? Wouldn't that help?
Afghanistan/Pakistan are far more important to the world than Palestine/Israel and their stupid fight, mostly about nothing.
Are you smoking something? If Afghanistan and Pakistan are so important to "the world" then the world better go do something about it. US out. India and China in.
There. I fixed it for you. Now the US can devote itself to matters that are more important to Americans, like Iranian nuclear weapons and North Korean insanity.
Craig:
The Israelis should apologize for an act of aggression the Turks committed upon them? Do you realize how insane that is? Maybe the US should apologize to the Islamic world for 9/11 too? Wouldn't that help?
I'm still waiting on Poland's apology to Germany for 1939.
Posted by: Li'l Mamzer at June 25, 2010 4:05 pm
If some theatrics on Gaza are the price for a Turkish surge into Afghanistan, then it is worth it. Israel should make an apology and be done with it. They only words.
The Israelis should apologize for an act of aggression the Turks committed upon them? Do you realize how insane that is? Maybe the US should apologize to the Islamic world for 9/11 too? Wouldn't that help?
I'm still waiting on Poland's apology to Germany for 1939.
Render, I would do everything to encourage you not to stop. Though I elected not to serve (no major wars came along during my enlisting years), my grandfather served in WW1 (infantry form NYC) and was a POW for more than a year and my father served in the 7th delivering classified documents to Eisenhower's CnC. He went from the Italian invasion to France following the lines into Germany. This however makes me an expert at nothing....
Hrothfar was wondering if we "got it" regarding media so I figured the Weigel Story would tell him something. Thanks for the connection to Iraq. Ironic that MoveOn has recently (yep, recently) purged their archives of the Betrayus As and the nasty comments. I suggest all read my link to FrontPage that found the links before they were purged......Yes, Hrothgar, I get your point and it was a sad week. Like I said, Sheen with a pen nails Brando....
Craig, Anan has his head so far up his rectum he confuses insight with the light he sees when he opens his mouth.....
That's right Anan. In almost every post of yours there is at least one absurdity worthy of that kick in the ass. Until you clean yourself up, its the metal tip of my boot for you....or perhaps it would be "more fitting" I should use that infamous "Turkish spike"...
One day you might thank me....
Posted by: Maxtrue at June 25, 2010 4:25 pm
Hrothfar was wondering if we "got it" regarding media so I figured the Weigel Story would tell him something. Thanks for the connection to Iraq. Ironic that MoveOn has recently (yep, recently) purged their archives of the Betrayus As and the nasty comments. I suggest all read my link to FrontPage that found the links before they were purged......Yes, Hrothgar, I get your point and it was a sad week. Like I said, Sheen with a pen nails Brando....
Craig, Anan has his head so far up his rectum he confuses insight with the light he sees when he opens his mouth.....
That's right Anan. In almost every post of yours there is at least one absurdity worthy of that kick in the ass. Until you clean yourself up, its the metal tip of my boot for you....or perhaps it would be "more fitting" I should use that infamous "Turkish spike"...
One day you might thank me....
Yes, my typos even amaze me....
Posted by: Maxtrue at June 25, 2010 4:27 pm
I do not understand why so many here are offended by this anan's comment:
"Israel has to remember that it is a Turkish client state."
I simply means that Turkey is Israel's server.
Posted by: leo at June 25, 2010 4:29 pm
"Israel has to remember that it is a Turkish client state."
I simply means that Turkey is Israel's server.
"Yes, my typos even amaze me...."
Typos. What typos?
I wish I had your problems.
Posted by: leo at June 25, 2010 4:30 pm
Typos. What typos?
I wish I had your problems.
Not sure what that means Leo. Please explain...
Posted by: Maxtrue at June 25, 2010 4:35 pm
I advocated against removing McChrustal despite my anger over a serious tactical error on his part likely a product of the behavior Yon had reported. My chief concern would be the effect on our strategy, the opportunity for the US to hesitate even more. I do agree that if we are planning to screw around we should get out because the real game is Pakistan and the designs of Iran. For these reasons I had advocated for seeing Afghanistan through.
I have already seen signs that Obama's removing the general is inspiring the Taliban and making waves in Pakistan. Here is another tremor: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/World/Pakistan/As-US-falters-Pak-plays-Haqqani-card-in-Kabul/articleshow/6092803.cms
Another is the Pakistani defiance of US objection to their gas deal with Iran.
Another is the money we give going to strategic weapons aimed at India and now China getting involved in a nuclear program we already know is building more nukes... http://www.livemint.com/2010/06/24220946/An-illegitimate-nuclear-deal.html?h=B
The mess in Afghanistan is adding to the narrative of a weak US made worse by the removal of one of America's top commanders. This is the fear Gelb expressed and why Gates didn't think McC should go. We all might justify Obama's actions, but the bigger picture has yet to make a verdict.....
Posted by: Maxtrue at June 25, 2010 5:04 pm
I have already seen signs that Obama's removing the general is inspiring the Taliban and making waves in Pakistan. Here is another tremor: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/World/Pakistan/As-US-falters-Pak-plays-Haqqani-card-in-Kabul/articleshow/6092803.cms
Another is the Pakistani defiance of US objection to their gas deal with Iran.
Another is the money we give going to strategic weapons aimed at India and now China getting involved in a nuclear program we already know is building more nukes... http://www.livemint.com/2010/06/24220946/An-illegitimate-nuclear-deal.html?h=B
The mess in Afghanistan is adding to the narrative of a weak US made worse by the removal of one of America's top commanders. This is the fear Gelb expressed and why Gates didn't think McC should go. We all might justify Obama's actions, but the bigger picture has yet to make a verdict.....
Oh, "I simply means"....I get it now Leo...lol
Posted by: Maxtrue at June 25, 2010 5:43 pm
James Carafano Heritage Foundation, Defense and Homeland Security :
George Orwell Vindicated
There are one of two scenarios here that I offer for consideration. 1) In the heat of a hot political debate moveon.org made a regrettable and inappropriate judgment (We all make mistakes...see latest issue of Rolling Stone). In that case why not just man-up and apologize to General Betray-us?
Or, 2) moveon.org is the leftist version of the Ministry of Truth.
Your call.
POLITICO
Posted by: Maxtrue at June 25, 2010 6:28 pm
George Orwell Vindicated
There are one of two scenarios here that I offer for consideration. 1) In the heat of a hot political debate moveon.org made a regrettable and inappropriate judgment (We all make mistakes...see latest issue of Rolling Stone). In that case why not just man-up and apologize to General Betray-us?
Or, 2) moveon.org is the leftist version of the Ministry of Truth.
Your call.
POLITICO
Here's a bit more of interest on our subject from this link :
.."Faisal Shahzad, Jihadi, Explains Terrorism"
...he (the one who would blow up Times Square recently) explains in....
"Jaw-dropping court testimony by Faisal Shahzad, the would-be Times Square bomber, singlehandedly undermines Obama administration efforts to ignore the dangers of Islamism and jihad.
Shahzad's forthright statement of purpose stands out because jihadis, when facing legal charges, typically save their skin by pleading not guilty or plea bargaining."
Here he pleads "guilty a thousand times over" to make the point that we unbelievers cannot by definition be innocent. He wanted to blow up times Square in response to our efforts in Central Asia, as if 9/11 never happened. A typical reversal.
I've pasted this from Daniel Pipes' newsletter today....if folks will read the whole page, it's not long, as an example of another recent near catastrophe which we will quickly forget in our near denial that we are at war against Islamic terrorism, not "man made disasters" or other euphemisms.
It's just another example of our current president becoming more ostrich-like with his head in the sand.
And, our Lady Gaga/celebrity-centered media mentality audience considering this whole war as "unpopular". The whole point here is our survival against an implacable sophisticated enemy wearing no uniforms and hiding deftly amongst civilians in crowded marketplaces. We send in a surgical drone, killing our intended target along with some unfortunates also killed by being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Wails from the antiwar activists follow instantly.
These same activists have forgotten London, Coventry, Birmingham, other British cities, Hamburg, Berlin, and Frankfurt and Cologne. Add to that add our firebombing of Japanese cities, I've posted this earlier, but it's worth repeating here for emphasis, omitting the Atomic bombs on Nagasaki and Hiroshima.
The "unpopularity" of a war is not in question. The thing each of us to keep in mind is that we are all, again, each of us, targets in this new warfare fought by "sleepers" here at home.
I call these guys here in our midst, "papered-Americans". If that needs explaining, then I throw up my hands.
Posted by: Hrothgar at June 25, 2010 6:29 pm
.."Faisal Shahzad, Jihadi, Explains Terrorism"
...he (the one who would blow up Times Square recently) explains in....
"Jaw-dropping court testimony by Faisal Shahzad, the would-be Times Square bomber, singlehandedly undermines Obama administration efforts to ignore the dangers of Islamism and jihad.
Shahzad's forthright statement of purpose stands out because jihadis, when facing legal charges, typically save their skin by pleading not guilty or plea bargaining."
Here he pleads "guilty a thousand times over" to make the point that we unbelievers cannot by definition be innocent. He wanted to blow up times Square in response to our efforts in Central Asia, as if 9/11 never happened. A typical reversal.
I've pasted this from Daniel Pipes' newsletter today....if folks will read the whole page, it's not long, as an example of another recent near catastrophe which we will quickly forget in our near denial that we are at war against Islamic terrorism, not "man made disasters" or other euphemisms.
It's just another example of our current president becoming more ostrich-like with his head in the sand.
And, our Lady Gaga/celebrity-centered media mentality audience considering this whole war as "unpopular". The whole point here is our survival against an implacable sophisticated enemy wearing no uniforms and hiding deftly amongst civilians in crowded marketplaces. We send in a surgical drone, killing our intended target along with some unfortunates also killed by being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Wails from the antiwar activists follow instantly.
These same activists have forgotten London, Coventry, Birmingham, other British cities, Hamburg, Berlin, and Frankfurt and Cologne. Add to that add our firebombing of Japanese cities, I've posted this earlier, but it's worth repeating here for emphasis, omitting the Atomic bombs on Nagasaki and Hiroshima.
The "unpopularity" of a war is not in question. The thing each of us to keep in mind is that we are all, again, each of us, targets in this new warfare fought by "sleepers" here at home.
I call these guys here in our midst, "papered-Americans". If that needs explaining, then I throw up my hands.
http://www.network54.com/Forum/242875/thread/1277481789/1277481789/I+Hope+Our+Ships+Will+%27Carry+These+Dregs+of+European+Garbage+Back+to+Their+Own+Countries%27
Kashlak....yes, a target now. May he have a sailing accident, or fall down a flight of steps and unlike Weigel, I don't hide my contempt or my enmity.
Yes, Hrothgar....I read his testimony. Brenner now is worried some Americans have gone over to the "terrorist" side. He is still unable to articulate the threat referring to AQ. We are aware of the mindset, the role of media to cloud the sign posts. I refer to it as the current narrative..
Posted by: Maxtrue at June 25, 2010 7:03 pm
Kashlak....yes, a target now. May he have a sailing accident, or fall down a flight of steps and unlike Weigel, I don't hide my contempt or my enmity.
Yes, Hrothgar....I read his testimony. Brenner now is worried some Americans have gone over to the "terrorist" side. He is still unable to articulate the threat referring to AQ. We are aware of the mindset, the role of media to cloud the sign posts. I refer to it as the current narrative..
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/06/25/AR2010062504087.html?hpid=topnews
DOD says the worst quotes were off the record....
Posted by: Maxtrue at June 25, 2010 7:32 pm
DOD says the worst quotes were off the record....
Israel called Iran's bluff.
Ahmadinejad and the clerics know they are on very thin ice.
Posted by: gus3 at June 25, 2010 7:35 pm
Ahmadinejad and the clerics know they are on very thin ice.
"Not sure what that means Leo. Please explain..."
It means typos are not important to me.
Posted by: leo at June 25, 2010 9:48 pm
It means typos are not important to me.
Yes,
"I simply means that Turkey is Israel's server"
should read
"It simply means that Turkey is Israel's server"
Here we go, those typos again.
Posted by: leo at June 25, 2010 9:51 pm
"I simply means that Turkey is Israel's server"
should read
"It simply means that Turkey is Israel's server"
Here we go, those typos again.
I'm glad you don't mind Leo because I am definitely typo prone..
Posted by: Maxtrue at June 25, 2010 10:19 pm
"I am definitely typo prone"
Probably "free" money from a federal grant to help the typographically challenged (disadvantaged?), Max.
Posted by: Paul S. at June 25, 2010 11:07 pm
Probably "free" money from a federal grant to help the typographically challenged (disadvantaged?), Max.
I'd like to be a fly on the wall at an MSNBC (just picked one; other deserving candidates) editors meeting to observe...well, yes, witnesses say the emperor was naked...but others didn't observe it, so we'll lead with them.
Remember Don Henley's "Dirty Laundry"? ("...is the head dead yet?")
Posted by: Paul S. at June 25, 2010 11:16 pm
Remember Don Henley's "Dirty Laundry"? ("...is the head dead yet?")
"The boys in the newsroom got a running bet. Get the widow on the set. We need dirty laundry."
Posted by: Paul S. at June 26, 2010 1:11 am
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-iraq-drift-20100626,0,5368284.story
Posted by: Maxtrue at June 26, 2010 6:19 am
"I am definitely typo prone"
Well, look at it this way, at least you know you there is a typo.
Posted by: leo at June 26, 2010 8:52 am
Well, look at it this way, at least you know you there is a typo.
Sometimes Leo, sometimes.....
Posted by: Maxtrue at June 26, 2010 9:54 am
It may turn out general McChrystal may turn out to be a hero after all.
If his resignation will lead to change of ROE in Afghanistan, which in turn will lead to lesser loss of American lives then general may feel vindicated to my opinion.
Posted by: leo at June 26, 2010 2:04 pm
If his resignation will lead to change of ROE in Afghanistan, which in turn will lead to lesser loss of American lives then general may feel vindicated to my opinion.
For the viewpoint of a former infantry officer who has a blog called "Schmedlap" .....Google that word.
"Why Obama Should Not Fire McChrystal
Show some leadership
Posted by Schmedlap at: 7:37 PM on 22 JUN 10"
Read his whole posting which has at its end this eminently sensible observation I quote...
"....The media must not be allowed to set our agendas for us. Leaders must not predictably respond to the situation created by the media. Leaders need to think creatively and act boldly to exploit situations as they arise. So long as the media continues to set our agendas and guide our policies, our nation will continue to get weaker, dumber, and poorer.
Posted by Schmedlap at: 7:37 PM on 22 JUN 10..."
I was too late in noticing this, just minutes ago I saw it, but I think it takes on added meaning now that we know the outcome of the Rolling Stone piece which I've also just read in its entirety on the Internet; pull it up and read it for it crude, faux macho language and somewhat disjointed prose.
What a sad state of affairs.
Posted by: Hrothgar at June 26, 2010 8:11 pm
"Why Obama Should Not Fire McChrystal
Show some leadership
Posted by Schmedlap at: 7:37 PM on 22 JUN 10"
Read his whole posting which has at its end this eminently sensible observation I quote...
"....The media must not be allowed to set our agendas for us. Leaders must not predictably respond to the situation created by the media. Leaders need to think creatively and act boldly to exploit situations as they arise. So long as the media continues to set our agendas and guide our policies, our nation will continue to get weaker, dumber, and poorer.
Posted by Schmedlap at: 7:37 PM on 22 JUN 10..."
I was too late in noticing this, just minutes ago I saw it, but I think it takes on added meaning now that we know the outcome of the Rolling Stone piece which I've also just read in its entirety on the Internet; pull it up and read it for it crude, faux macho language and somewhat disjointed prose.
What a sad state of affairs.
......We seem here to have the media tail wagging the dog.
Posted by: Hrothgar at June 26, 2010 8:20 pm
.....This is even better.....more to the point....read all of this posting of Schmedlap's ...very refreshing. remember, the writer is an experienced former Infantry officer, not your usual "impeccably informed and sourced" commentator.
...."The Rolling Stone Article: Why Should I Care?
It must be a slow news day
Posted by Schmedlap at: 08:21 AM on 22 JUN 10 | ...".
Remember, in order to bring this up you first have to Google -Schmedlap-
Do it.
Posted by: Hrothgar at June 27, 2010 9:55 am
...."The Rolling Stone Article: Why Should I Care?
It must be a slow news day
Posted by Schmedlap at: 08:21 AM on 22 JUN 10 | ...".
Remember, in order to bring this up you first have to Google -Schmedlap-
Do it.
If saying really, really stupid and inappropriate things is a fireable offense, I think VP Biden is on borrowed time....
Posted by: Rob at June 27, 2010 5:50 pm
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